I was listening to the Maggot Brain album the other day, and although I had always loved the album and the other rock Funkadelic jams, it never set in that this was, along with some other albums/songs were straight up rock music.

I was just curious where Funkadelic as a group and the albums like Maggot Brain, Standing on the Verge, etc. rank with the all time greats, and also as to why they don't get enough props as a rock group.

------------------------------------------

"And just because I smile they be thinking I be jokin..."


http://twitter.com/DrunkUncleP

Rock fans usually love bands who "establish" a "core" sound - and go off in "different" directions "very cautiously".


With songs like "can you get to that?" and "back in our minds" and all that "funny" business detracting from the music on the song "wars of armageddon" I'm sure people just thought/think Funkadelic was going for "weird" more than "rock".

"free your mind..." has some good rock-ish songs but it's pretty short. If "Maggot Brain" was followed by "rock emphasizing" album that might have made people consider Funkadelic a "rock" group.

By the time they got to "Standing on the verge" they already did "all over the place stylistically" records like "cosmic slop" and "America eats its young" so that wasn't assisting Funkadelic in being considered a "rock" group.

across the board...albums...musicians....songs....live performances..

they really aren't fade-able in any area...

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

In the world of punk, Bad Brains get status.


How do you explain that?


How does Hendrix and Bad Brains blackness affect (or not affect) them getting status?

he wasn't waving the "whitey get off us" flag funkadelic was

there's a difference between being Black and having brown skin

i dunno about bad brains

?

edit: in "If 6 was 9" Hendrix famously sang:

"If all the hippies cut off all their hair,

I don't care, I don't care"


So Jimi wasn't being exactly "safe" if he said something like that on his 2nd album.

i genuinuely don't care if rock fans appreciate Funkadelic

more for me

to my earlier point though, if you don't think, on any level, that the racial makeup of Funkadelic doesn't have anything to do with their acceptance in non-Black musical circles...

and

if you cant see the difference between Kendrix and Funkadelic from an "acceptability to majority of rock fans and powerbrokers" perspective

and

if you aren't aware of how genre-parsing (often on the basis of race) is, and has been, used to separate Black musicians and artists from white ones *historically* (with the occasional pass given of course)

then I can't help you

enjoy whatever "place" you listen from. must be nice there

Funkadelic said nothin' about "whitey"

Funkadelic was busy touring with white bands (the Box Tops, MC5, The Stooges, Vanilla Fudge) to be saying stuff about "whitey".

We're just a biological speculation
Sittin' here, vibratin'
And we don't know what we're vibratin' about

And the animal instinct in me
Makes me wanna defend me
It makes me want to live when it's time to die

Y'all, see my point
I don't mean to come on strong but I am concerned

I believe in God
Though I know that law and order must prevail
Oh, if and when the laws of man
Is not just equal and fair
Then the laws of nature will come and do her thing

Oh, she does not think
She just rectifies
She comes and balances the book
Y'all see my point?
Y'all see my point?

We're just a biological speculation
Sittin' here, vibratin'
And we don't know what we're vibratin' about

And the animal instinct in me
It makes me wanna defend me
It makes me want to live when it's time to die

Y'all see my point?
(Y'all see my point?)
Some of you, you might not be aware
That some of us don't eat
Some of you don't, you don't even care

Oh, if and when the system
Creates hunger and hate
Then the laws of nature will come and do her thing
Oh, yes, oh

She does not think
She works by instinct
Survival is her thing
Do y'all see my point?
(Ohh)
Y'all see my point?

Off the top of my head, the only Funkadelic song I would call straight up rock is Friday August The 14..

the rest of their stuff had that fonk in it, even the guitar heavy tracks like Red Hot Mamma & Who Says A Funk Band Can't Play Rock...meaning they were too black for the hard/pop rock crowd

they're not higher in status in "rock"

so Funkadelic's "funky-ness" is "apparent" to me as a "distinction" from rock.


Not sure if co-sign of reply #7 is equating "funk" with "black" as the reason

IMO.

and i don't think it compares well w/my favorite Rock stuff.

fuck you.

however this country stays racist and limited mentally with black acts. now while P Funk ain't my favorite band ever,there is no denying that from a strickly instrumentation aingle they are the most talented band that i have ever heard instrument to instrument.

however that ole racist industry had one Jimi Hendrix they didn't want a whole lot more.

the Chamber Brothers,Arthur Lee,etc.. and other black Rock and ROllers ain't ever got their fair and full due either IMO.

George Clinton had so much going on. straight up you name it musically and the P Funk Mob could do it period.

musically they covered all the bases.

Rock Radio is one of the most segregated established brands in the business period.

the same double standards that Fishbone,living color,bus boys and other black rockers who have dealt and faced.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

Yeah, his songs weren't perfect but alot of lesser accomplished artists got 25 times the recognition he did (Peter Noone? The Monkees?)..

The first 3 Love albums are full of gems.. especially Forever Changes

They were actually a very influential band in the sense that they were the hippest band in LA once the Byrds went too mainstream and you can hear SO many garage-rock songs from 66-67 that rip the shit out of EARLY Love (read:debut) right down to Lee's vocal style (BANGING example:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxR8_QiV6Tg Another one:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywo2Nb5MPhw I know lots more...).


Also, the way of expanded instrumentation and easy-listening-influences on second album "Da capo" really lit a fire under the ass of LA and SF musically (example:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBRyj1ox8gs )

The problem with Love was that they refused to tour and promote themselves outside of LA and for that reason alone, their record label only focused on that region. From what I understand, 99% of Love's record-sales came from their SUBSTANTIAL fanbase in LA, the rest of USA barely knew they existed.

Basically, I think Lee's biggest problem wasn't really race but that he was a "too cool for school" LA hipster who didn't understand that you need to *work* in order to become big...

Not saying that racism didn't play a part but you could just as well argue that Love's music really wasn't commercial enough to catch on or that they didn't have a big, Money song. I mean, Jefferson Airplane were mostly lousy but they have two songs-technically covers-that *everyone* knows and that was enough to make them the quintessential hippie-band. Love were WAY more consistent songwritingwise IMO but none of their songs were catchy enough to take them next level. Seriously, without those two songs, Jefferson Airplane would have been the Peanut Butter Conspiracy but worse, however, they had the hits to take them next level. I don't hear those songs in Löve's discography even if I personally think they take a big dump over all the SF hippie bands in terms of good music...

is black on the 1st 2 albums. Orange Skies/Stephanie Knows Who...Arthur wasn't singing "black" (on purpose?)..

I think LOVE just simply never got THAT HIT. Which is dumb because almost every song on Love 66 & Da Capo are timeless, great songs.

The funny thing about Sgt Pepper being regarded as the supreme psychedelic album is that almost every fkn band worth mentioning got "there" before The Beatles. Arthur Lee was doing interesting chord changes on the 1st record!The Doors' first 2 albums should of been dedicated to Arthur Lee.. The Byrds had BEEN psychedelic
by 67..
Anyway, it's a shame that to this day almost nobody knows about Forever Changes. I think every living person should get to know that album before they die.

>is black on the 1st 2 albums. Orange Skies/Stephanie Knows
>Who...Arthur wasn't singing "black" (on purpose?)..

Huh? I don't get it. Are you saying... I don't even know...

>
>I think LOVE just simply never got THAT HIT. Which is dumb
>because almost every song on Love 66 & Da Capo are timeless,
>great songs.

I agree. The blues-jam that fills up the second side of "Da capo" is a turd, otherwise, it would be better than "Forever changes" to me, The debut has a *few* fillers but it's still one of the most consistently enjoyable pre-67 rock albums I know, a famous band like the Who doesn't come close to something that consistently strong.

Still, I don't hear any big hits. Even the fucking Seeds and ? mark and the mysterians (the latter were hispanic BTW) scored hits and I can hear why. I can not hear hits like that with Love which takes nothing away from their brilliance, just saying that their material wasn't terribly commercial.
>
> The funny thing about Sgt Pepper being regarded as the
>supreme psychedelic album is that almost every fkn band worth
>mentioning got "there" before The Beatles. Arthur Lee was
>doing interesting chord changes on the 1st record!The Doors'
>first 2 albums should of been dedicated to Arthur Lee.. The
>Byrds had BEEN psychedelic
>by 67..,
I know all this and I would be the first to point it out; Sgt Peppers would barely make my top *20* of rock-albums from 67, not when Hendrix, Love, Beefheart, Velvets, Moby Grape, the Byrds, Buffalo Springfield (another LA band who *should* have gotten bigger), 13th floor elevators and even limeys like the Kinks and Pink Floyd making stronger albums the same year...

>Anyway, it's a shame that to this day almost nobody knows
>about Forever Changes. I think every living person should get
>to know that album before they die.

Eh, that album is a major cult-classic and has had that position for decades; even casual rock-fans know it... It's great but I for one think it's a shame that it overshadows the rest of their discography so much when the debut and first half of Da Capo are SO good..

EDIT:and narrowing down the Doors to just a band inspired by Love is a bit cheap; the aforementioned the Seeds (due to the organ) and ESPECIALLY the Music Machine and their more moody songs played a big part in terms of shaping the doors. What made the Doors different is that they opened the, um, Doors to pretension whereas all those other bands mentioned-from Love to music machine-chose to work in a "pop"-framework most of the time. "The End" may sound like a tedious turd today and the organ-solo in "Light my fire" to me sounds like a guy waiting for an idea that never happens but shit like that was a big deal in 67; people were barely used to the album-format and its possibilities...

>Huh? I don't get it. Are you saying... I don't even know...

I'm saying on the early songs he's singing the songs like a white person would. Which sounds bad but that's not how i mean it. I love every last song by Love..except Slick Dick wtf was that

>

>
>Still, I don't hear any big hits.

Imo Softly To Me, Orange Skies & Signed DC are definitely "hits"

Forever Changes:
>
>Eh, that album is a major cult-classic and has had that
>position for decades; even casual rock-fans know it... It's
>great but I for one think it's a shame that it overshadows the
>rest of their discography so much when the debut and first
>half of Da Capo are SO good..

I agree..but FC holds a special place in my heart because I heard it first and it blew my mind

>EDIT:and narrowing down the Doors to just a band inspired by
>Love is a bit cheap;

yeah I overstepped with that..I was thinking of When The Music's Over..I hear a lil Love in some of the songs on The Doors & Strange Days, but mostly in the instrumentation of the backing band.

It wasn't necessarily the music but rather the "hip" persona of Lee and the Vibe he gave off that was the influence. As I said, once the Byrds-the OG blueprint-became too Hollywood, Love became the next act to copy. Bands like Buffalo Springfield don't really showcase it but Music Machine and seeds and numerous garage-bands... you can CLEARLY notice an emphasis on the vocalist as this enigmatic, "deep" dude. That did SO not come from the Byrds who were more in line with a Beatles aesthetic but even more democratic. Based on books I read, Lee seemed to have been if not the first, then at least at the forefront of the whole "dark, mysterious vocalist with a backing band"-steez which was as I said different from the Byrds (and Buffalo Springfield for that matter who were clearly "post-Byrds" in approach and obviously post-Beatles as well)...

So yeah, Lee was by all acounts a heavy dude in the LA scene and I suspect for some reason that he got more pussy than most LA musicians before the hair-metal-scene, shame he never crossed over to classic rock stardom though but having a cult audience should not be dismissed either... It can help you long-term which I THINK IT DID; MORE PEOPLE CARE ABOUT lOVE TODAY THAN, SAY, THE aSSOCIATION or Lovin spoonful or possibly even Mamas and the Papas (beyond the hits)

I think I read somewhere that Paul McCartney, George Harrison and The Stones all checked them out when they were in town

Just like I feel people here have a tendency to exaggerate how soul/funk/"authentically" blues Hendrix sound, I also feel people exaggerate how rock Funkadelic sound.

To put it differently, I think people raised on soul/funk/R&B hear them as much more "rock"-sounding than your typical rock-fan do. Sure, there are *songs* on their first three albums (and VERY few later-even the disappointing song that tried to make a point) that sound very rock but even on those, they don't really sound *that* rock as a whole even if "Free your mind..." comes closest I guess. My personal favorite of those first three is the debut and on that one, they to me sound like a heavier, more freaky and "Hendrix" take on 60's Sly rather than *rock(tm)*.

Also, many rock-fans actually don't like funky beats; the rhythmic foundation of rock(tm) is rooted more in 50's rock'n'roll/R&B or even 60's soul a bit later than funk(tm) which has never been a MAJOR rhtyhmic component in rock outside of isolated songs.

The rock popularity of a blatantly Funkadelic-inspired band like RHCP may seem to contradict this but it's worth pointing out that they didn't become huge until they started to partially move away from funk-rock a bit; when they played more uniformly, explicitly funky (or "funky") music (=first three albums), they were never more than a mid-size cult band.


Basically, I suspect (actually, I *know* from personal experiences with people I've tried to turn out) that many rock-fans hear them more as a funk-band and since there's a chance they don't like-or even understand-funk, there's that too...

musicians a ton of credit.