3. "he swore he wouldn't tell." In response to Reply # 2 Sun Apr-12-15 02:04 PM by bills
edit: but in all seriousness, I still haven't gotten the chance to compare, but is this really all that similar to any verse on Ye's finished version? My guess is he used the cadence and a bar or two.
And if that's all he did, I don't know if I'd actually call Kanye's process of having other rappers get the creative juices flowing "ghostwriting".
8. "Kendrick is credited as a writer on 'All Day', right?" In response to Reply # 3
as i understand it's not 'ghostwriting' if the lyricist is publicly acknowledged as the writer and the performer never claims to have written the lyric.
so even if Kendrick wrote every word of 'All Day' as long as Kanye and the liner notes state that truth there's no ghosting happening.
dula dibiasi Member since Apr 05th 2004 21925 posts
Mon Apr-13-15 04:37 PM
16. "they really don't. smartdumbness abounds." In response to Reply # 11
___
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
30. "that is still and always has been ghostwriting in a hip hop context tho." In response to Reply # 11 Tue Apr-14-15 03:53 PM by tingum
puffy is infamous for having ghostwriters (jada, sauce money, royce, etc). "dont worry if i write rhymes, i write checks". and they got credit on the album.
dre too obviously.
hov got explicit album credit for foxy verses, queen pen verses, the memphis bleek intro to vol 2, etc.
hip hop *always* called this ghostwriting.
this isnt r&b.
if you didnt write your own lyrics, you had a ghostwriter.
32. "naw. 'ghostwriting' even in HH implied secrecy." In response to Reply # 30
>puffy is infamous for having ghostwriters (jada, sauce money, >royce, etc). >"dont worry if i write rhymes, i write checks". >and they got credit on the album.
^ this was Puffy responding to rumors. whispers. secrets. uncredited writers.
>dre too obviously.
rumors. whispers. uncredited writers.
>hip hop *always* called this ghostwriting. > >this isnt r&b. > >if you didnt write your own lyrics, >you had a ghostwriter.
if you didn't write your lyrics but presented the work as if you had, then you had a ghostwriter.
35. "you must be new to hip hop then." In response to Reply # 32 Tue Apr-14-15 04:47 PM by tingum
some have been uncredited, some have been credited. they have ALL been considered ghostwritten.
lil cease - crush on you (cam) dr dre - still dre (hov) puffy - i'll be missing you (sauce money) and so on...
all received credits. all have been categorized in hip hop lore as ghostwritten for years.
all you had to do was be in regular convos among other hip hop heads or pick up a few issues of the source, xxl, etc. thats how they have always been referred to.
only an outsider wouldnt remember that.
dude up there just quoted a famous jay z line where he referenced his name being in mad album credits at the time (s. carter). and he referred to himself as a ghostwriter for it as did everyone else.
36. "Yup. Born in 1976. I'm brand new." In response to Reply # 35
>some have been uncredited, >some have been credited. >they have ALL been considered ghostwritten. > >lil cease - crush on you (cam) >dr dre - still dre (hov) >puffy - i'll be missing you (sauce money) >and so on... > >all received credits.
Not Sauce Money.
>all have been categorized in hip hop lore as ghostwritten for >years.
Rumors. Whispers.
>all you had to do was be in regular convos among other hip hop >heads >or pick up a few issues of the source, xxl, etc.
Rumors.
>thats how they have always been referred to. > >only an outsider wouldnt remember that.
Lol. I heard them referred to as ghostwritten rhymes - bc they weren't credited. Bc the rappers were shady about admitting someone else wrote their rhymes. Even when it was obvious. I also remember having this same conversation related to Dre and his writers on 2001. I remember arguing that Em, Jay, Snoop et al weren't ghosting on the record bc their writing was publicly acknowledged via liner notes unlike DOC on the original Chronic.
>dude up there just quoted a famous jay z line >where he referenced his name being in mad album credits at the >time (s. carter). >and he referred to himself as a ghostwriter for it >as did everyone else.
Not everyone bc I remember the conversations, player.
33. "i agree it's looked down on among some folks." In response to Reply # 13
i disagree that it's always called 'ghostwriting' when the actual writer is publicly acknowledged. and if it is then the term is being used incorrectly.
6. "is this somehow gonna be a big reveal that Kanyes got the whole industry" In response to Reply # 0
workshopping his rhymes for the majority of his career?
Because I thought we all kinda knew that already and he'd been given a pass due to his other skills like beatmaking, conceptualizing, passionately pshit-stirring, working hard, etc.
Does anyone really believe Kanye is some beast on a mic?
I mean Dr Dre spits other people's lyrics more cleanly than Kanye does.
14. "didn't he pretty much acknowledge as much a while ago?" In response to Reply # 6
it was widely understood that he flew a crew to hawaii to help him with MBDTF. I assume his rhymes are the same as his production now: he has no interest in doing it alone, he'd rather put together a team to dream up the best product.
20. "RE: When was he creeping into anybody's top 5 as an emcee?" In response to Reply # 17
>I always enjoyed Ye for the overall album experience.
maybe not. but he could make a pretty good case for a top five hip hop artist.
if the job of an artist is to give you an album experience, then he's one of the best to do it. he easily makes top ten. and while he's not a super technical emcee he makes up for it in his artistry.
but i can't really speak about his recent output, because I've gotten less interested the more he's brought in outside help. like graduation/little bit of 808s. i didn't listen to mbdtf much. i think "power" is the last post graduation/808s kanye that i really felt.
if he doesn't make top 10 hip hop artists of all time i'd really be interested to hear who does.
24. "RE: so you Dweebs in the Lesson gonna act like this dont matter?" In response to Reply # 15
>Going forward: > >Kanye has is out of the great hiphop artist or GOAT MC >category >
agreed.
>Kanye has "delivered" classic albums in the same vein as Dr. >Dre, which is very respectable
sure, altho none of Kanye's albums are on the level of Chronic, Doggystyle or 2001.
> >But he's out of every top 5 he was creeping into, fuck outta >here > I never had him there, partly because of stuff like this but also he's just never struck me as being great at actually rapping. > >Help with writing verses or collaborative verse writing I have >seen and I can get with. Reference tracks? That shit aint >hiphop > >EDIT: f u
27. "RE: so you Dweebs in the Lesson gonna act like this dont matter?" In response to Reply # 15
>Kanye is out of the...GOAT MC >category
Jesus Christ, who the hell would ever have Kanye West anywhere near a GOAT MC discussion?
Also as others have pointed out, this isn't a surprise. There's probably a reference track hidden deep in a vault somewhere with Rhymefest spitting Jesus Walks.
29. "LOTS of people......that's sorta the point being made here" In response to Reply # 27
>Jesus Christ, who the hell would ever have Kanye West anywhere >near a GOAT MC discussion? > Shit, ask Ye himself who threw a temper tantrum about only being #7 on MTV's annual list a couple years ago.
Then you may have heard him rap this verse on Barry Bonds from a few years back:
"Dude!" Fresh off the plane, "konichiwa," bitches Turn around another plane, my passport on pivot Ask for it I did it, that asshole done did it Talked it then he lived it, spit it then he shit it *******I don't need writers, I might bounce ideas But only I could come up with some shit like this***** I done played the underdog my whole career I've been a very good sport, haven't I, this year They say "he going crazy and we seen this before" But I'm doing pretty good as far as geniuses go And I'm doing pretty hood in my pink polo Nigga please, how you gonna say I ain't no Lo-head Cause my Dior got me more model head I'm insulted, you should go 'head And bow so hard until your knees hit your forehead And the flow just hit code red *****Top 5 MCs, you ain't gotta remind me Top 5 MCs: you gotta rewind me****** I'm high up on the line, you could get behind me But my head's so big you can't sit behind me
34. "I guess I didn't realize he was *that* respected as an MC..." In response to Reply # 29
I was just echoing the exact sentiment you dropped in reply #6.
("Does anyone really believe Kanye is some beast on a mic?")
I guess the answer to your own rhetorical question is...LOTS of people.
>Shit, ask Ye himself who threw a temper tantrum about only >being #7 on MTV's annual list a couple years ago.
Ha, didn't see that, but not surprised he was mad at it.
EDIT: I just re-read all the shit you said in here and we're basically in agreement, outside of the fact that I didn't realize so many people held Kanye's MCing skills in such high esteem.
42. "For as much assistance that he receives..." In response to Reply # 0
...it's interesting that the verses still sound his.
I'm not disputing that he receives help or whether it's wack or not if he does, but I wonder how these collabos work when we all know Kanye has those type of lines and verses that only he comes with (for better or worse).
Does he receive a framework verse and then he "Kanye's" it up? Or does the cat writing the verse basically think of what Kanye would say that they THEMSELVES would never come with and they just have a little fun with it?
__ I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!
Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno
Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)
44. "RE: 'ye is a producer(always worked within his small circle)" In response to Reply # 0
from the beginning when it was glc, rhymefest, really doe, consequence to big sean, cudi, lupe, etc... he's always collaborated with the flavor of the moment act as well (t-pain, 2chainz, jeezy, *supposedly young thug is on SHMG*) yes k dot is in the writing credits for 'all day' i initial posted this, because i thought it was funny when this leaked how it was immediately taken down but in all honest having a team is one thing, but to have the 'future of rap' lend you bars is just.......
Printer-friendly copy 
Email this topic to a friend
The Lesson
