1. "It's just self-validation." In response to Reply # 0
people want to like the best things, and don't want to be told their favorite things aren't the best things. somebody somewhere is in a heated argument about how McDonald's is the best food in the world because it's the thing they eat most.
6. "Now that I'm crazy old I don't feel that way" In response to Reply # 0 Tue Mar-17-15 06:30 PM by Ishwip
Up until a couple of years ago at times I would be determined to "prove" so and so was the best, even providing unsolicited mixes or at least a definitive tracklist/album rankings of concrete evidence.
But now I've swung way the other direction.............maybe too far. I almost never recommend anything to friends, even those of similar musical minds, unless directly asked. And I generally don't feel motivated to convince anyone of any album's or artist's greatness.
I like what I like and it pretty much stays there unless I'm forced to elaborate.
__ I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!
Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno
Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)
7. "^ same." In response to Reply # 6 Tue Mar-17-15 09:27 PM by Brew
Went through the same transition. As I came to the realization that it's 99.9% subjective I decided it wasn't worth arguing, for the most part. Like someone said above, there's a few artists I'll go to bat for in the right situations but mostly I'm just like "meh you like what you like..."
I still have passionate music discussions, and often. But these conversations are less combative these days, and more just an exchange of thoughts/ideas which is ultimately more enjoyable. I actually get more out of hearing what other people like even if in the end I don't end up liking it myself. I hear more music by being more open minded to different tastes.
20. "I've got a few more months before I'm 30, but yeah." In response to Reply # 6
High school was when I really got entrenched in discovering music from all eras, still keeping up with new shit, and definitely caring enough about "real hip-hop" to tell you how MF DOOM was lightyears better than Bone Crusher. Easy argument, but I was always down to have it.
That youthful exuberance was still somewhat-present in college, partly-fueled by the fact that I went to a huge music school (Belmont). Conversations about new shit, old records, anything…that was there whenever I wanted it for those four years. I learned a lot of shit. As a DJ though, nothing rang more true than what my man told me almost 8 years ago:
"It's not normal to care about music this much."
This was coming from another DJ/music nerd, but it never really crossed my mind before that. "Normal" people don't give a shit about sampling, originality, genre-melding sublime masterpieces, etc.
They definitely don't care why you think so-and-so is the best out.
As with most things, age has mellowed my desire to *really* engage in super-nerdy music discussion. I relish those times when real music-conversation happens, but I'm far past the days of discussing the merits of a musician like it's a boxing match.
13. "I'd expect that from someone with your tastes" In response to Reply # 8
in culture, and the reasons why you like things.
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
9. "I don't really think like that about music (anymore?)" In response to Reply # 0
Actually, I never thought about music like that before going into music discussions on the internet either. The way I feel about music is very much based on what I'm in the mood for at the time so it doesn't really feel right saying that someone is the best (well, Cecil Taylor but he's a special case).
However, unlike others in this thread, I see no problem debating the value of music from a subjective standpoint. Music is my biggest interest, I like to think about it, talk about and read other people's subjective opinions on it. For me, it's not even an issue of trying to sway someone's opinion or "attack" someones taste but ultimately and ideally at least TRYING to express what I like/don't like, WHY I like/don't like it and appreciating reading others doing the same thing.
I don't think my opinion has ever been swayed in terms of stuff I REALLY like/don't like but it's still interesting to read others take on it and at least in the case of shit I don't like, someones positive opinions can draw attention to details I might previously overlooked due to disgust/whatever.
When it comes to stuff I'm on the fence about though, I can EASILY be swayed in one direction or the other and I feel no shame about it either; as I said, people's opinions can highlight details I might have overlooked; I'm not pompous enough to suggest that I can notice everything in music I don't have a strong, previous relationship with.
The type of people who blatantly REFUSE to acknowledge that their music-appreciation doesn't exist in some vacuum totally independent of others are naive IMO and I don't believe them...
that being said, michael jackson is the greatest of all time because i listen to him a lot and i can find lots of things to like about him because i listen so often.
ppl that love ray charles the way i love mike could do the same.
11. "I've never thought like this" In response to Reply # 0
Leaving it at emcees and rappers, all things considered and thrown in equally, I maintain that Mele Mel is the best emcee the culture has produced. But he's not my favorite. It's sort of childish and flimsy to think "my favorite ____ is the best ever" because usually it's based on personal perspective. Contrary to popular belief, you actually can quantify the technical aspects of the art if you had to, when we don't allow for it to be discussed because of personal feelings/contemporary bias, it can get old quickly.
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
Maybe 7 or 8 yrs ago, I think. I gained new perspective and now I don't need errbody or even the ppl I respect to like what I like for the reasons I like it. Or to convince ppl they don't or shouldn't dislike what I dislike. And I'm fine with loving shit that others think is boo-boo (what up, Kenny!).
15. "But the problem here..." In response to Reply # 14
...is that when you say there is a distinction, you are IMOstrongly implying there actually exists such a thing as an objective "truth" and I find that dangerous honestly.
I have no problem saying that something sucks because it does... to *me*. And whose else perspective can I possibly write from? The general consensus? A non-existing truth???
I think it's pretty much a given that someones opinion is, in fact, their opinion because there are no truths or facts when dealing with something as subjective as appreciation of art.
Of course, if someone say that Melachi the nutcracker was a *technically* superior rapper to Nas, then I would like to see that person deliver a strong argument for their case since it's such an unusual opinion and I would actually find it interesting to see how someone could come to such a conclusion.
I think cases like these are a bit different from just saying that someones music sucks though which ultimately isn't really an opinion worth debating even if it's obviously a plus if someone will say *why* they think it sucks...
16. "but ultimately opinion is just that" In response to Reply # 15
saying its good/better/than/best (or the opposite) doesn't make that true for anyone BUT you and those who agree
which is why ">>>>>" or "<<<<<" conversations are fine to get a peek into the thought processes of the speaker, but really don't establish anything other than a pooling of like minds
and beyond *that*
it is increasingly rare to really even get much of an actual discussion of "why", as opposed to "it just is..."
21. "When people feel strongly about something aka love" In response to Reply # 0
there is nothing better or sweeter on the planet. think about your s.o when you first get together, you literally think sunshine comes out of their ass (c) juno's dad, but other people don't.
we love something and want to share how we feel about it with the world, and there is literally nothing better in that moment.
31. "echoing most things that are said" In response to Reply # 0
By the day I care less if my favorite is accepted as consensus of the best rapper. I hold my top 5 of things dearly to my heart, and its more important to me that someone whose opinion I respect has some sort of crossover with my top 5 with their own, than that we both agree that one is the best.
The same way I think that Pineapple is the king of fruit, but find people who throw up Mango or Strawberry (my 2 & 3) in their top to be my people .
I do think that there is another thing about being what is considered the "best" being important beyond validation, and that is a larger cultural mobility sort of thing. If what I think is the best, is also considered the best, and recognized as such (i.e The Grammy's), then the culture might move towards that style/taste/level of excellence. If something I consider mediocre or even bad gets touted, i hope that it's place at the top gets dissected in fear of cultural movements towards that end of the spectrum.
But that in itself its own form of validation seeking so I guess it all stems from the same place.
------------------- village.fm/okayplayer | @delajoo "Whether you're a rock star or a garbage man, if you think about yourself all the time, you won't be very good at what you do." - Frusciante
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