What does this say going into 2015? Sure the numbers will get lower next year as more people stream. But there is something to be said about the best selling 1st week rap record being a joint with no radio tested singles, pre-released videos or any "gimmick" (other than the gimmick of having no gimmicks of course)

Should this be a lesson for rap releases in the future? I mean Nicki 's budget was probably 4x Cole's and she wont recoup (off music anyway). Meanwhile in the middle of the pack.. cats like TI came out after 3-4 lousy singles and did the same numbers as Logic who had no singles but a solid growing fanbase..

Should cats just drop the albums if the fanbase is big enough? The release cycle of 6 months which would have been relevant even 2 years ago is now too slow for this world?

There was an article in grantland today that talked about the demise of pop music as a cultural mainstay and the rise of the pop artist as a culture in of itself.. So if your cult of personality is big enough.. you invent the rules for your success.

Just thinking out loud really..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

does cole really connect with young folks like that?

they buying his shit???

iono man... all my students listen on youtube.

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

Maybe Billboard will do a breakdown of sales like they did for T Swift... What was surprising about hers was her biggest market is the South Atlantic... I wonder if Cole being from NC also helps his case when it comes to sales.

We have to remember. Cole's narrative is the kid with a dream from a small southern town heads to the Big City and makes it..

I'm sure that connects with a good majority of the US pop

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

watching youtube clips of the dude speak and J Cole fits in perfectly with my little brothers own rising social consciousness.

Yes, young people connect with this music.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

you could even argue that nicki budget wasn't even all that husky and the payola push was never made since her label head is beefing with his imprint right now
maybe her numbers are the more realistic numbers out of the two artists given the current climate

edit: j cole apparently is on a 360 deal too. which would add an incentive for his label to make him appear bigger than he is to generate show/appearance revenue
not saying i fully buy this conspiracy but this thread kind of supports the narrative

~~~~~~

I honestly don't think Nicki deals with Cash Money in any way shape or form. They probably get a release date confirmation and thats it..

Cash Money is more of a scouting/a&r company than a label. She is too big to be dealt with there. I assume G only deals with Universal regarding Nicki...

If they need muscle then yea they probably call Baby in.

Payola push? With Shazaam, Spotify, Hit Predictor and the ability to gauge the public interest almost instantly I don't think that's a factor unless the song is gonna really work..

look at the year end charts for the year and you will find tons of songs that either broke overseas first, broke on the internet via youtube or were just undeniable smashes.

Nicki failed in all those departments really.. and she is also in a 360.. everyone is..

EDIT: And yes I think J Cole has that active a fanbase. I think he taps into a larger demographic than people think. You have everyone from HS kids to College/Just outta college to 30+ I still like hip hop but it has to have substance crowd.. That's a lot of people

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

> With Shazaam, Spotify, Hit Predictor and the
>ability to gauge the public interest

i'm in the camp of ppl who don't know anyone who listens to the guy, so all this is intriguing to me
though at this stage in my life i personally know exactly 0 hood teenagers
so maybe this is a case of us being old and completely disconnected
ie: we think kids love young thug because he's ignorant, but they actually love jcole because ???

~~~~~~

I'd like to check his metrics actually (I can't) but I'd venture to say he is pretty high up there.

I was talking about those specifically as is pertains to singles. That being said since the release.. "Apparently" has jumped into top 10 (#9) on Shazaam future hits chart.

I mean he is on a Maroon 5 single right now... so his "pop" credibility isn't in question either..

Like I said. I've performed with Cole so I know what size crowd he's been doing and for how long. There are a lot of kids who fuck with Cole. I don't think his numbers are extremely padded. He has done similar numbers on every release.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

https://twitter.com/Dreamville/status/545013013481152512

---------

Go Bucs, Braves, Hawks!

twitter/kinggs

BRAINBANDITS.

There you go

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

So far there's been Beyone, D'Angelo, and J. Cole, and even J. Cole a little different because I feel like there was a week or two of advance notice that he was dropping something. Beyonce is the only one who dropped an album outta nowhere.

What other artists out there that could do this and be successful? Jay-Z? **Maybe*** Kanye, even though "Yeezus" had no real singles or promotion, and that was seen as under-performing commercially.

Not Lil' Wayne.

Would Drake even try to do something like this?

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

Well...

Drake imo is a excellent blueprint for the modern artist.

This year he didn't drop an album but was on 2-3 hits and consistently released music. He is always in the conversation so if he dropped an album 2moro.. It would break the internet for sure. I mean he has 2 grammy noms..

I think that older artists who don't necessarily have game changing singles that need their own breathing room should drop like this.

I think Kanye would've benefited from a short album campaign.. Premiere the video on the walls across the world.. SNL then release album.. do that in 2-3 weeks. Once the leak happens then everyone can pick apart the album before release day.

30 days.. no more no less

Taylor swift filed up her entire pre-album cycle with marketing conversations about Spotify, whether she could sell 1 million first week and how bad everyone else was doing. She was sold as the savior of the 4th quarter and did it.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

(consider this also a follow-up response to your response in the 15 thread)

He's also signed to RCA/Sony, and he's got a solid fan base (though not as big as J. Cole's). But as I recall, the Sony head credited Rocky's relatively strong sales for Long.Live.A$ap to creating anticipation via a protracted roll-out.I know they've shelved the A$ap Mob album until after Rocky's new one drops. Would Sony feel like doing an extremely short promo cycle for the album?

Also, I figure Macklemore is another artist that could "pull a Beyonce".

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

Hmmm he did 139k.. 2 years ago... that was coming off Buzz and Fuckin Problems..

Rocky (and ferg) impress me with each feature they do. I think rocky could drop in a month and it wouldn't be any different than 3-5 months. He has a cult following but hasnt made a record that crosses over to a larger casual fanbase yet...

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

straight from a soundcloud rip.

Drake could easily do those numbers.

>What does this say going into 2015? Sure the numbers will
>get lower next year as more people stream. But there is
>something to be said about the best selling 1st week rap
>record being a joint with no radio tested singles,
>pre-released videos or any "gimmick" (other than the gimmick
>of having no gimmicks of course)

Cole has a good fan base with kids under 18, the college crowd as well as folks in their mid 20's. He's got about as broad of a range as a young MC can have. Even the hardest of the hardcore can't really hate the dude and I think will at least check out his releases. Someone like Niki can be very polarizing and I think that can work in your favor but it can also backfire if you begin to be perceived as overexposed.
>
>Should this be a lesson for rap releases in the future? I
>mean Nicki 's budget was probably 4x Cole's and she wont
>recoup (off music anyway). Meanwhile in the middle of the
>pack.. cats like TI came out after 3-4 lousy singles and did
>the same numbers as Logic who had no singles but a solid
>growing fanbase..

I don't think everyone can do what Cole is doing but it definitely should be considered by artists who have a similar appeal. Like you said the gimmick being I don't have gimmicks approach.
>
>Should cats just drop the albums if the fanbase is big enough?
> The release cycle of 6 months which would have been relevant
>even 2 years ago is now too slow for this world?

It has been interesting to see Cole & Lecrae do pretty well without all of the bells and whistles and without that over the top personality that is generally considered mandatory to move units these days. I think they win based off of the fact that their are far more regular type of folks than their are cartoon character types.
>
>There was an article in grantland today that talked about the
>demise of pop music as a cultural mainstay and the rise of the
>pop artist as a culture in of itself.. So if your cult of
>personality is big enough.. you invent the rules for your
>success.
>
>Just thinking out loud really..

Yea. There are certainly more examples though of this in the middle..

Ab Soul and Rittz did 20k+ or so with no video or singles really.. but Tinashe couldn't break 20k with a hit single.. Nor could Rich Gang which I guess would be more apt comparison (think they barely did 15k)

I still think front end promotion to build a new artist is necessary. But if you are on album number 2 or 3 should you be doing the same thing..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

A lot of these folks who have hot songs aren't really albums based artist. I'm curious to see how someone like Ty Dollar$ign does when his full album comes out.

>Yea. There are certainly more examples though of this in the
>middle..
>
>Ab Soul and Rittz did 20k+ or so with no video or singles
>really.. but Tinashe couldn't break 20k with a hit single..
>Nor could Rich Gang which I guess would be more apt comparison
>(think they barely did 15k)

To me that's not a surprise at all. Tinashe & Rich Gang seem more like artists who have a song or two that people like but full albums. We've seen that before with people like Ciara, Jim Jones and Trinidad James.
>
>I still think front end promotion to build a new artist is
>necessary. But if you are on album number 2 or 3 should you
>be doing the same thing..

I think it depends on what kind of audience you have. I still think someone like say Muse would do best rolling the album out and setting up nicely and getting people excited about it rather than just dropping it on people. At least here in the States.

i think when you're fans/buyers are skewed too young or 'trendy' your decline seems more drastic/dramatic
look at artist like nelly & ludacris who were mulitplatinum sellers and they can barely get to 400k nowadays, goes back to their core base
cole positioned himself as a serious post-kanye rapper co-signed by jay-z. for the moment he had that heartfelt performance on letterman and word of mouth, again he's in that nas/kdot/ye to be taken serious mold of a rapper
minaji for the most part has a majority teenage female audience, but her deluxe edition comes with a calender (is this for guys or girls?) I also think if she would've drop last month closer to black friday, then moms would've had easy stocking stuffers for the girls = higher #s

True.. but so does Taylor Swift.. and she brings em out in droves

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

i.e. she white

lol.. of course she is..

So is Arianna and she down there at the bottom with nicki minaj doing 169k first week

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

lol

you right...

Swift is a super outlier.. I mean Beyonce dropped that re-release with 7/11 on it and only did 50k. They swept it under the rug quick fast though

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

more like disposable income of fans and their general inclination for object fetishism/symbolic purchases.

Considering the J Cole quotes ill see on instagram, etc he's got a base. He's not a megasuperstar like Drake, of course, but he's got people that will turn out, particularly since he's seen as a 'real' artist even tho he's a manufacturered snoozefest. He's where Cudi was a few years ago before he started talking about how he wasn't gonna make music anymore and was talking about starting a rock band.

Minaj may be one of the big pop stars of the current decade but who are her fans? Her music's not sincere enough to tap into traditional fandom that other pop scarlets like Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, Beyonce can tap into by feigning being one of of the girls writing pseudo-personal songs.

She's not the pure monster hitmaker that Rihanna's been for over a decade and wont' be with 'WTF' throw a way tracks like Anaconda.

And her hip-hop career is a wash to the point that when i saw her feature on Mike Will Made It 's new mixtape I was like, "Why is she here" LOL.

Yes but ultimately.. will this be a turning point in the way people approach album releases..

Like.. Nicki would've done these numbers 2 months ago. They waited for nothing (except SNL)

The idea of the album delay should just be destroyed in 2015. Just put that good music out and see what it do. Unless you have a cultural smash (a la Royals) the numbers aren't gonna be affected that much.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>The idea of the album delay should just be destroyed in 2015.
>Just put that good music out and see what it do. Unless you
>have a cultural smash (a la Royals) the numbers aren't gonna
>be affected that much.

Unless the product is truly trash, it’s dumb not to capitalize on buzz while it’s there in hopes of a smash hit is gonna push the album. You’re right, the Anaconda video controvery alone would have doubled her numbers months back.

If she woulda dropped the album and the video the same day...

She woulda done numbers... She had the biggest buzz with the picture alone..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

do you think because so much is vested in her imagery would that be hard to keep her promo underwraps. i'm pretty sure target, bestbuy, etc. would prefer more traditional roll outs for store merchandising reasons...

Sure.. But the time you inform the stores and when you start releasing promo publicly don't have to be the same thing.

Taylor had probably been setting her album up for months before She debuted single in mid august. That was a set up for VMA's.

I think the biggest issue is if you drop a single and it falls flat or doesn't BLOW. You get scared and go back to recording adding shit on the album and all that. I mean Nicki is mentioning "In love with the Coco" on a song which you know means that it was recorded in last 1-2 months. She started promoting this album in February (lookin ass dropped 2/14). So she definitively went back in a few times I assume

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

That's a new one

smh


but im banned tho.
____________

Dallas Cavericks LETS GO!!

And good for him

The unassuming everyman with a touch of throwback

If you're not going to coon, that's how black artists
make it now

That Cole is mixed race makes it even better

The thing it does best is not alienate white people

Kanye's biggest problem has been alienating white
people

Same with Lupe

Black artists have to be either gun-toting, sex and
jewels (Keef, ASAP, etc) or unassuming humble beginnings
types (Kendrick, Cole)

Drake does both

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

so if a black artist is like by white fans but he's not hood

he's manufactured..

If a black artist is hood and is liked by white people

he's cooning..


smh

yea not even going to entertain this shyt

I'm familiar enough with the routine on the other boards






but im banned tho.
____________

Dallas Cavericks LETS GO!!

He and his label has slowly built a solid and loyal fanbase. With every release during north of 200k, i dont think its fluke anymore

---------------------------------
<----DAMN!
Straddling the Line Between Genius and Insanity

https://soundcloud.com/headnoddaproductions

- His dedicated fanbase

- The timing was perfect because end of 2014, no real good albums in hiphop. Nothing was really dropping in his lane or in hiphop that could compete. Someone who was actually saying something was a different change in climate for people who didnt buy any rap albums this year so they copped this.

- He learned how to be an artist and doesn't chase the singles game, simply because he can't make big singles. A lot of these kids who make it big off 1 song via social networks or whatever the case may be , get thrown into a label and to keep the fire going they make an album....and flop because they never learned to be an artist. It always catches up to u

- He didnt do anything groundbreaking with this album. Think about it, its basically the better made version of his last 2 projects. Same formula minus the trying to make a single song cause it doesnt work for him, he's the Nas type or rapper who sucks at making BIG joints. If he did that with this album and the label put it out first and that was the first impression for his project i'll tell u right now the numbers wouldnt even be close to even Nicki's. So it was a smart choice to release it the way he did.

BTW this is not the same type of release as Beyonce. He had a little anticipation because they did those "trailer" videos and threw out the artwork. Even as small and short lived of an anticipation build up they did ....its not the same. Beyonce just put out the album and blindsided people.




____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

You cant keep saying his singles dont work man..

Work Out - #1 at Rhythmic, #13 Hot 100
Cant Get Enough -#7 R&b/Hip Hop chart
Power Trip - #5R&B/Hip Hop, #35 Hot 100, Grammy Nomination
Crooked Smile -#7 R&b/Hip Hop, #27 Hot 100

He's proven he can make singles for radio..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

If the songs aren't memorable as actual singles. Nobody cares for his singles. They do well on charts because he has a machine, most (not all) of those artists are on those charts because of their machine, the ones that do well and consistently stay on are the ones that worked. Let's stop acting as there aren't factors as to why people end up on those charts let's be realistic on why people stay on those charts.
____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

If I play Work Out tonight.. I will still get people dancing..

People like these songs.. and people like Cole... maybe they like the songs solely because they like the man that is J Cole.. but it doesnt matter... because it drives them into Top 40

Cole currently has 4 songs in Top 10 on Shazaam Hip Hop/R&B Chart currently and 1 in top 10 on future hit chart...

That is the people talking... People taking the extra time to ID a song.. thats the type of data the label follows.. people are reacting so they will react with money.

That's the game.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

His core audience will dance to it,....recognizing a song isnt the sign of a hit. I can recognize album cuts. *shrugs*. But if you wanna keep pretending he has actual smash singles then because Common and Wiz were nominated for rap album of the year we'll also pretend those were good bodies of work. Ok.


____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

What would you constitute as a smash then?

All About The Bass?
IDFWU?
Tuesday?

If not chart position and public reaction then what?

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

i really dig that joint, myself.

i don't see why people are surprised, if you build a solid fanbase you eat consistently. you know how many post-hardcore bands ate off that in the 00's lol

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

I like his singles more than I like his albums. "Can't Get Enough" and "Power Trip" are by far his best songs. He's proven he can make pop hits. Kendrick Lamar has yet to make a great pop song, though I think "i" could be that someday.

___________________________
Add me on:
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www.dwightschrutebeetf

He had listening sessions at people's houses and showed up to their schools to sign their albums. that plus word of mouth saying "the album is actually good" made people want to support

Nicki didnt make a good album, only her loyal crowd is supporting

The "common man" artist is one of the oldest
acts in the galaxy

Not mad at him, but LOL @ people still falling for
that shit

Did Cole not autograph something for your pillow wife?

I know we're boys and all, but I have to start telling
it like it is bro.

Hope it doesn't strain our friendship.

I know talking about him makes you feel good but it's not doing much to dismantle institutional racism. Also, kinda poor taste for you to bring it up in your trolling but I'll let your pillow wife talk to you about that.

You pirate everything, admitted it before, so I'll go ahead
and remind you.

And I'll take Cole 8 days out of the week over the coons that
your demographic promotes as "edgy," the ones that destroy
our culture.

Definitely.

The fact is that Cole isn't a very good rapper, and doesn't
make very good albums. Those are just musical facts, though.

If he's what white people will allow me to have, I'll take him.
They see half themselves in him...I get it.

Wish he was a good rapper with good music, though.

HoPe???/ LOL

>What does this say going into 2015? Sure the numbers will
>get lower next year as more people stream. But there is
>something to be said about the best selling 1st week rap
>record being a joint with no radio tested singles,
>pre-released videos or any "gimmick" (other than the gimmick
>of having no gimmicks of course)
>
>Should this be a lesson for rap releases in the future? I
>mean Nicki 's budget was probably 4x Cole's and she wont
>recoup (off music anyway). Meanwhile in the middle of the
>pack.. cats like TI came out after 3-4 lousy singles and did
>the same numbers as Logic who had no singles but a solid
>growing fanbase..
>
>Should cats just drop the albums if the fanbase is big enough?
> The release cycle of 6 months which would have been relevant
>even 2 years ago is now too slow for this world?
>
>There was an article in grantland today that talked about the
>demise of pop music as a cultural mainstay and the rise of the
>pop artist as a culture in of itself.. So if your cult of
>personality is big enough.. you invent the rules for your
>success.
>
>Just thinking out loud really..

Superstars don't need six months and $12 million to market an album that drops in October. At this point they have dedicated fan bases that purchase their music. They do not need to cover six magazines in order to generate awareness for their projects.

That Nicki Minaj situation is a debacle. She sold pimped herself out and failed miserably. I won't go in too bad but she needs to go back to the drawing board and focus more on her music than showing her ass all over social media.

Certain artists need the buildup to their projects. I get it with Wale or someone that might not sell as many records. Moving forward, building a fan base is more important than marketing records. This shows that fans will show to purchase music if you cultivate an audience over the course of years. Look at MGK and Snow the Product. They tour and build their fanbase the hard way.

In a way it's refreshing that the focus has shifted from first week sales to measuring everything from tours to merchandise to video play counts. illmatic earned 59,000 sells during its first year and it took the album almost a decade go platinum so this obsession with sales is pointless.

that makes me feel old and outta touch!

went to dimple here in sac to pick up a copy, but it was sold out!

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

not at all...

Iggy did 50k first week and isnt gold yet... her rerelease barely sold 15k..

Nicki did 1.9m with the first record and 901k on last one... She is like stratospherically bigger than Iggy it isn't even funny...

The reality is that the news cycle decided to tag onto iggy and create this faux storyline but the numbers dont back it up..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

Also, Charli XCX and Ariana Grande make those two big singles (Fancy and One Less Problem) more than Iggy IMO.

Well "Problem" isnt her single..

Fancy & Black Widow were..

also.. this is pop.. There is NO rapper in the top 10 (except Bobby Shmurda) that has a rap record with no singing hook. Since Iggy can't sing she is always gonna have one..

At least Nicki can get ester to write her a hook she can sing

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

makes no sense anymore. by the time the album drops you've got 3-4 singles that are played out and nobody's checking for you anymore. this made sense when radio was the standard/primary gateway and big budget videos had world premieres on cable...that day is over though. this approach of a small build up leading to the release makes way more sense in an environment where you can release 3-4 singles at once. you can have all the songs buzzing on the internet at the same damn time. videos can be shot and released right away. put it all out, hype it for a month or so and drop the damn thing. nobody wants to hear that your shit is coming in 6 months and have half the album playing at the club 4 months before the album drops. it just doesn't make sense to do this anymore unless it's a brand new artist getting his start. even then, features should take care of it.

i always think about how disappointing that GOOD Music album was...it was a decent album and had it dropped when Mercy first came out it would have had a greater impact but by the time it came out Mercy, Theraful and the other singles had been around for 5+ months and they were the best songs on the album. anybody listening to it was looking for something else to check and it just wasn't there.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

Yea I think time is hurting cats and they don't realize it..

If you are a huge artist your deal with Physical retail should be cut before you record a song. It's not like they are going to listen to the music. Outside of physical everything is instant so yea..

Just drop that shit..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

Not alienating white people means two things

a) Make destructive ignorant music

b) Be ultra "humble, common man."

The problem with (a) is that its easier to replace

Schmurda has replaced Chief Keef

And Minaj went that route and can be replaced

The other option is to be humble and "common man"-ish

Better bet

Its why Jay-Z has aged so well: the husband/businessman
thing has given him a "refined" appearance...this is why
white people show up at the Moma to hear him rhyme...if he
was bragging like he used to, nobody would care (even though
Jay-Z music is terrible recently)...White people didn't care
at all about 'American Gangster'...it was dark, introspective,
and more like the real Jay-Z...race baiting and the whole 9.
Whites preferred dumb douchebag bar anthems like were on
Magna Carta

Cole, Kendrick and Drake (Drake does both) have a common man
energy that helps to not scare white people. Being mixed race
definitely helps here, too, kinda like Obama...Kendrick has
actual street cred, unlike Drake and Cole, so white kids like
that they can listen to a "rapper from the hood"

Whole game is about white people, y'all






----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Yes to scale you need white people...

at the same time.. A) doesn't work anymore.. Shmurda was never going to have a career or album...

But Cole goes directly at white artists on this album.. It was highly publicized and he still sold better than he has in the past.

I actually think the issue is more you can talk about pretty much anything and people will support. but if you alienate your white fans you will lose their support..

I mean I'm sure there are a TON of white rap fans who are just as mad if not more mad at people like Iggy..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

with more categories and longer descriptions for black folks that garner success in the music biz. Of course, I don't have a link or remember even the gist of what he said. Anyone else remember what I'm referring to?

in that ?uest's old post wasn't specifically racial, but it is applicable to what you typed. Anyway, here's the link to the thread I was referring to: http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=9741&mesg_id=9741&listing_type=search.

In case the link doesn't work, I will copy and paste what he originally wrote is 2004:

based on a few posts i seen (on whether talent determines sucess, or a good album gets its just rewards) it is my conclusion that most of you are not aware that this is indeed a business based on everything but the so called star of the show:

music.

so as a result....i decided to let you guys see my theory on how sucess is determined. i will name some artists and you guys will come up with the equation to how you think they got their sucess. (or lack therof).

i base these equations on my 6 point theory:


1) THE THREAT- does this artist scare the bejesus outta you? are you not too sure if art is imitating life? is theirh music LOUD!!!! are you convinced of the narritives this person tells you? does it depict true ghetto life or a life of ill repute? does this person's intellect scare you in the way that paul mooney way? does this person use GOD and RELIGION as a sheild and not as an engaging figure? has this person been in jail? have they been shot? does hearing this person in your ride/ipod make your walk a little different? this person known as a bitch? does this artist music reflect a depressing mood? feel like slitting your wrists after you hear the music? ever mosh to they shit in concert? afraid to listen to this music in the dark? afraid to meet this artist in the dark? then this person's sucess is based on the THREAT. (20 points)

2) SEXUAL CHOCOLATE- do you have fantasies about this person? does this person make you cream? do you often stop what you are doing the second their image appears on tv? do you travel far and wide to see the appearence of this person? even if you do not like the song they present do you still give them a "pass" if said song is in your system 19 times a day via radio/tv/online? is this person a womanizer? or a slut? is this artist muscle bound? do they have a "fat ass" (in a good way) is this person on your screen saver? did you doodle this person's name in a heart in your school books back in the day? is this person known for a decadent sezual lifestyle? is this person involved in a sex sscadle? do you not show anger if the mute button was on and you could still see the video? if you describe someone in the industry by their physical appearance first before their talent? do you close your eyes and turn your lover into this person? then my friend, this persons sucess is based on their SEX appeal. (20 points)

3) TAKE EM HOME- is this person just too cotdamn pc for their own good? are they smarter than smart? a thinking man's person?is this someone that you can take home to mom and dad? do you let your children listen to this person? is there not one threatening bone in this persons character? is this person the opposite of number "1"? does this person have an apolitical point of view? can you see this person being invited to the white house? could this person seem somewhat ambigous? fellas can this person chill with your lady and you not be threatend? ladies can this heffa chill with your man and you not be threated? (and no i dont mean is this person UGLY) is this person eagar to please? do you think this artist is kinda cute? are they mysterious? does this artist have a rainbow spectrum of fans? black, white, and in between alike? has this "good" person recently fallen from grace from the community of the opposite race that embraced them in the past? do you think they are hiding something from you? this person my friends is the PC CHARACTER. (20 points)

4) BAIT AND HOOK- does this person always come with it when it comes to the old craft of (whatever this means in today's times) songwritting? you find yourself saying "i hate this song" but then find yourself singing that shit over and over and over and over and over and over? has this aritst contributed slang to modern pop culture? do you not know the lyrics to said song but the hook sticks like glue and that is okay with you? does this person get away with crimes of simplicity when it comes to music? do you find it odd that soooooooo many people can "feel" this artist and you don't? can you name every song on their album? do you know all the lyrics? even if they dont have sex appeal do you STILL support this person cause you loooooooooooooooooove the song? is this artist considered a modern day genius when it comes to pop craftsmanship? do your kids love the songs from said artist? (20 points)

5) the ENTERTAINER- does this person DANCE THEY ASS OFF? does this person perform like the inhaled 300,000 gallons of coffee? does this person potray the character of another race that is not their own? is this person real flamboyant? does this person have a loud wardrobe? does this person have an expensive wardrobe? does this person OVERACCESORIZE? and when that word accesory is used....that means items like: diamonds, cars, gold fronts, expensive glasses, wigs, furs, etc? are other human beings used as objects in their videos? does this artist display some sort of spontanious character trait that the average human being cannot duplicate? do you often yell for this artist to display that very "talent" in their show as if it were a novelty and not a craft? do you think about someone's overaccesive lifestyle first before talent? can an accessory on their body put a child through private school and college? does this person always come with different personalities? other alias? do they smile too much? even if not a singer can this artist as an musician display incredible talent on their craft more than the average musician on this same instrument? can't they complete a sentance? do your kids/sibblings "just looooooooooooooooove" this person? does this person always make you laugh? does this person use religion as a crux? does this person use god as a shield? what about other mythic figures?does this person come off ass crazy and deranged? could this person fit in the minstrel period of yesteryear? does this person dabble in other forms of the media like movies? tv? radio? are they a modern coon? this my friend is the verison of THE ENTERTAINER. (20 points)

6)@@@@@- does this person come with a bulletproof sheild of critical acclaim? are they wood in the hood? does this person come with "much hype"? do you find yourself indifferent to said person, but feel like you will be left out in the cold if you do not jump on the critical bandwagon? does this person display awesome amounts of talent? do they have a fan base that is tougher than leather? do you not "get it"? does this person have a hugh following of an audience that is not theirs? does said person make you yawn? do you know the name of the group but not the group members names? is this person unattractive? are they fat? are they older than what the current marketplace allows? do your parents love this person more than you do? is this artist on an independant label? does this artist have more than 5 records? has this artist been dropped by a major label?is this artist the favorite of your favorite artist? does this artist open shows for a bigger audinece but can't garner a single applause unless some "showmanship" is displayed? (see 5) does this perosn invade critics lists? is this artist "non descirpt?" are any of their recordings overs 9 minutes long? this my friends are ARTSY FARTSIES. (20 points)


20-f rating in your book (could have a short career, well loved by a select few)
40-e rating in your book (am i the only one who went to a school with E grades?)(could be a fallen artist, an artist hanging on a string or an underdeveloped artist)
60-d rating in your book (this is an artist that is right on the verge of something big...not quite there. could have more than 5-10 years under their belt. displays talent that has appeal but not quite there yet. or could be very big and a well respected artsy fartsy type)
80-c rating in your book (this person is a well known star. made a significant mark in music career spands somewhat more than twn years)
100-b rating in your book (this person is a cebrity. a celeb is a person in which their life overtakes their talent. but this shouldn't mean that sucess is not well deserved. this artist could very well play and sellout a stadium. controversy is a big factor in this person's sucess)
120- A plus rating in your book (this person is an ICON)

go rate em.

i'll do the jump off.

He has to accommodate people in his profession that I don't,
though.

If anything, Quest is harder on black audiences than white
audiences, which I am NOT mad at.

Zero problems with Quest.

I'm just letting you know that I can read black man-speak.

He feels how I feel.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>
>He has to accommodate people in his profession that I don't,
>though.
>
>If anything, Quest is harder on black audiences than white
>audiences, which I am NOT mad at.
>
>Zero problems with Quest.
>
>I'm just letting you know that I can read black man-speak.
>
>He feels how I feel.



Harder on black audiences in what regard?

>Harder on black audiences in what regard?

I'm not being heavy handed here. Its a light opinion,
but its what I've picked up from what I've heard.

Nothing wrong with it.

He's a pretty even tempered, balanced dude in general,
and I like him.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

has ?uest voiced that opinion since? On the one hand, I don't think it's fair to expect anyone else to have to like art you put out, muchless have certain races have to like your art, but I'm not in ?uestlove's shoes, nor am I an artist, so I can't speak fully. And I guess I somewhat understand the frustration that comes with taking that stance in seeing mostly white faces when you're a black artist making 'progressive' black art.

and i was rooting for the rapper that she is...but that shit is unbearable

________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

Yea..

Grand Piano is kinda dope though.. and I do like the Trini girls tune.. Think there are nuggets of ideas in there she can exploit..

Ultimately she needs a real executive producer that knows what to do with her. Wish Dre was working cuz I would trust him since he fucked with Eve

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

3 albums in and she should've created her own 'sound" by now though.

That's my issue. She doesn't have a sound she never has.. Nor do I think she is concerned with one artistically...

She is trying to maximize profit.. and talk some shit in the process. She operates like any other plug-n-play rapper.. She gets songs with hooks and she puts verses on them and maybe adds a top line to Ester Dean songs.. then throws em out. If they work they work.. if not back to the drawing board..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

Not sure why they're giving a pass to a shitty pop album.

them reviews had my jaw on the floor. i want to hear the album they heard cause it sounded like the same old trash she's always made

<--- Big Baller World Order

Context..

She is going through some real shit.. so even though these songs are a bit generic AND were written while they were together most people are using the break up as context... she's so open.. so real etc...

Same thing kinda happened with Rihanna after Chris fiasco.. everything from that point on is framed based on this very public physical abuse and how she weathered it. She doesnt write ANY songs.. they could literally be anyones but the context of the Chris situation made her more "real" and gave certain songs a point of context..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

They get a coon bump


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Not on the context issue...

T Swift is as big as she is because MOST of her songs are seen through the lens of "Which Ex-Boyfriend is she talking about now!!"

The gossip/celeb engine is one of the most powerful engines out right now. If keeps people in the news cycle more often than their albums being released. So anything that gossip rags can run with only help to bolster your presence and perceived "realness"

A Casual fan that listens to the radio and shops at target and is waiting in line for hours this christmas gets to see your face x amount of times on various magazines... with random quotes applied to it. When they get back in your car and turn on regular ass Top 40 radio and hear your song they are connecting those dots..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

The problem is, unlike Chris Brown, nobody cares about her weed carrier ex. The NY Times review (which was less generous than the others) brought up how boring her vocals get on her ballads. This is still probably better than the last few Em albums but it suffers from that same problem to a lesser extent. It goes everywhere and nowhere all at once.

Notice how understanding the critics were of this diarrhea
fest of an album. They "understood context" and that other
dumb make believe shit.

Would Talib Kweli get that same understanding for a medoicre
(but superior to this) album? White people ignored Kweli the
minute they realized that he has read more books than they have.

Read more books than white critics = get ignored.

Promote black death and pain = "analyze context"

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

still talking about him like he was your pillow wife. He deserves better fans than that.

>still talking about him like he was your pillow wife. He
>deserves better fans than that.

You pirate music that you supposedly love,
and automatically find black rap artists better read than you
as "boring hacks," largely because intelligent black people
scare the shit out of your demographic.

Destructive and ignorant black artists are "cool, dope, edgy"
and even when they are terrible, you make excuses

(See how the media treats A$AP and his terrible music
with kid gloves. Same with Minaj. And French Montana.
And a lot of destructive music by black artists)

If they are trying empower black people, you don't
like it. Its the way the modern Lessonhead type of
white hip-hop fan is.

Sad, because it used to be the opposite: white kids
used to love Public Enemy. Hell, they were outselling
ignorant gangster rap.

Not sure why you guys moved on.