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>i think you're reaching too far back to explain what was
>directly responsible, i mean why stop there? let's go back to
>harry belafonte why we're at it?
>
in very broad strokes, the history of pop music goes like this.
negroes make race music and jazz, and nobody cares but negroes, for the most part.
elvis makes a version of race music which hits big with white ppl, but dries up as a commercially viable thing. way before the early 60s
Motown takes some edge off of race music,
and in a few years white ppl catch on and
want to hear songs from black folks again.
meanwhile, the Beatles were over in Liverpool
and hit big with race music and motown covers.
for a brief period, the music industry was integrated.
Motown and the Beatles cover each other,
and both black and white ppl were buying records
from both artists. black and white artists are being influenced by each other, too.
the Beatles sgt peppers experimentation when combined with JB invention of the 1
leads to sly.
But in spite of that, the radio is essentially segregated again by the middle of the 70s,
with the exception of stevie wonder, who everybody loves.
The music industry hits a recession, and ppl aren't buying records.
Off the Wall changes that to a degree,
but MJ changed it forever with thriller (or more specifically, Motown 25).
The rising tide lifts all boats and everybody gets a push.
Madonna. Prince. George Michael.
Even Van Hallen and Phil Collins are getting burn because
everybody wants that thriller money. They make pop songs that are for the most part,
integrated.
In part because of thrillers success, both white and black artists are eating good off of black music.
The music industry is so far out of a recession,
it's essentially a boom. Every artist is getting major money pumped into them.
And all of it has a black slant to it.
Hip hop is still underground, but pay attention to it.
It comes up later.
The 90s come in.
The stars from the 80s are still hanging on and dominating commercially,
but they no longer have the zeitgeist.
But really, artists are still eating off of thriller because
exects still have money to burn and they will dump major money into anything they think will sell.
Garth Brooks doesn't have Super Tuesday releases w/i thriller.
Neither does Whitney. Or Janet.
Hammer gets a push because it has a pop feel appeal to it and
hip hop is a new thing and maybe white ppl like it too.
Puffy comes along and essentially did what hammer tried to do...
sonically AND commercially.
and yeah, his albums are still giving a nod to thriller,
whether puffy understands that or not.
Boy bands come in and make a series of songs
that are trying to sound like updated thriller out takes.
Britney, too.
We enter the 00s and the Neptunes and Timbo various other super producers are STILL
doing the black pop thing with the intention of making
pop records w/ thriller r&b slant. Ja Rule, Nelly, all are MJ's distant relatives.
And that trend continued until... and you called this... "laffy taffy",
when black rap artists gave up on trying to cross over with big glossy songs
and just stripped everything down. (either because they were incapable of producing slick songs or they had no budget and do desire to do so).
all of the songs that lady taffy begat were
NOT the children of thriller. but the sold to black and white audience
because white ppl embrace hip hop completely now.
but meanwhile, every other genre continued leaning towards slick,
r&b slanted pop. that includes emo bands like panic at the disco and fall out boy and my chemical romance and CMT stars that weren't even doing
country as the world used to know it-- opting instead to make
accessible r&b with a twang to it and maybe a slide guitar here and there.
but that post thiller sound was not being done by Wayne and Rick Ross
and maybe not even jay z, although that doesn't matter much
because now white ppl that grew up on hip hop will buy their records.
Meanwhile, r&b stars are lost in the wilderness
trying to sound like untz untz clones,
and just give up on trying to sound like second rate thriller songs.
In short, white artists kept reissuing copies of copies of thriller.
black artists moved on to a new sound completely, for better and for worse.
why does it go back to MJ and not Harry belefonte?
Because mike built this monster.
He built sound that is currently associated with pop. (Country pop, r&b pop, euro-pop, all of it)
It goes back to MJ for the same reason Spielberg is responsible for transformers 3.
Yes, music and movies existed before them.
but mainstream movies as we know them today, didn't.
so it really does go back to them.
The "problem," to the extent that there is one,
is that black artists are no longer chasing the sound of contemporary pop.
Meanwhile, the white artists that grew up listening to those black artists still are.
and as a side note, i think blurred lines would have been a hit for
usher, but not as big a hit because usher isn't as sexy as robin thicke and couldn't sell
that video as well.
20/20 wasn't a major hit anyway, but usher could have done it just as well.
>there was an influx of White dollar in rap/r&b in
>1993/1994/1995 and then it exploded in 1996/1997 with 2pac/bad
>boy/bone thugs-n-harmony/coolio/etc.
>
>this paved the way for things like numerous multi-platinum
>certifications from 1998-the early 00's.
>
>the White dollar boom where White audiences were directly
>patronizing Black musical acts.
>
>and the White flight from Black musical acts that erroneously
>seems to get pinned solely on 00's mp3 "piracy".
>
>>do i think that the fact that robin thicke and taylor swift
>>and Molly circus
>>are the face of r&b slant is significant?
>>
>>yeah.
>>
>>but to be honest, black music itself seems to have moved on.
>
>>the biggest "stars" (do we have them anymore)
>>don't seen to be going for that sound anymore.
>>
>>even usher quit courting that demographic for a decade.
>>
>>
>>i guess my point is, what you are describing is a thing,
>>but i wonder how much is white flight
>>and how much of it is black musicians moving away from that
>>post thriller r&b pop music in general.
>>
>>i am sure timiland would have given usher 20/20 tracks if he
>>asked for them.
>>pharell would have given blurred lines to usher or Chris
>brown
>>if they wanted them.
>
>in my opinion, neither of those records would have been
>successful if Black singers had made the exact same songs with
>them in today's climate.
>
>the White audiences who were responsible for that sales spike
>10-20 years ago are all grown up and the ensuing Black music
>that followed the late 90's-early 00's killed off their
>business.
>
>>but who heard the track and said, yes... let me oh the
>track?
>>for some reason, the answer was white ppl.
>>
>>
>>you might be right about your theory...
>>but i don't know if i agree with what you think is causing
>it.
>>
>>
>>
>
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