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Subject: "god don't like ugly (marvin gaye vs robbing thicke & pharrell)" Previous topic | Next topic
fire
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Fri Oct-31-14 02:47 PM

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"god don't like ugly (marvin gaye vs robbing thicke & pharrell)"


          

:)

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/judge-rejects-bid-robin-thicke-745106

A California judge rules that Marvin Gaye's family has made a sufficient showing that elements of "Blurred Lines" may be substantially similar to "Got to Give It Up"

Rob Thicke Blurred Lines Album Art - S 2013
In a ruling that could set up one of the biggest trials ever over alleged song theft, U.S. District Judge John Kronstadt on Thursday denied Pharrell Williams and Robin Thicke's motion for summary judgment in a lawsuit that explores the origins of the blockbuster hit, "Blurred Lines."

The two musicians filed a lawsuit in September 2013 after receiving threats from Marvin Gaye's family, who contend the song is a knock-off of "Got to Give It Up." The lawsuit sought declaratory relief that "Blurred Lines" was non-infringing, painting the defendant as attempting to claim ownership of an entire genre. That led to a countersuit where the Gaye camp asserted that the song was indeed infringing, that Thicke had a "Marvin Gaye fixation," and that he had also stolen a second song, "Love After War" from Gaye's "After the Dance."

Both sides trotted out musicologists and mash-up s, debated the nuances of copyright law and even addressed Thicke's wild deposition comments admitting drug abuse and lying to the media.

The end result is Judge Kronstadt's conclusion that the case shouldn't end now.

The Gaye family, he writes, "have made a sufficient showing that elements of 'Blurred Lines' may be substantially similar to protected, original elements of 'Got to Give It Up.' Defendants have identified these with particularity for purposes of analytic dissection."

Specifically, the judge points to genuine issues of material fact existing as to the substantial similarity of signature phrases, hooks, bass lines, keyboard chords, harmonic structures and vocal melodies of the two songs. The judge also writes that the Gaye family has offered sufficient evidence to create triable issues about whether their 11-note
signature phrase, four-note hook, four-bar bass line, 16-bar harmonic structure and four-note vocal melody are protectable expressions.

The judge also refuses to allow Williams and Thicke to win at this juncture on claims tied to "Love After War."

The ruling isn't a complete loss for the singer and his producer.

There was much controversy between the two sides as to whether Gaye's copyrights are limited to sheet music compositions or whether they extend to features heard on the "Got to Give It Up" sound recording. For the purposes of the analysis, the judge looks to the 1909 Copyright Act, which would have given the Gaye family the right to include more than just the sheet music if the work was published with proper notices or part of necessary deposits at the Copyright Office. The judge concludes that the Gaye family hasn't sufficiently shown it did either, and thus, they "have failed to produce evidence that creates a genuine issue as to whether the copyrights in 'Got to Give It Up' and 'After the Dance' encompass material other than that reflected in the lead sheets deposited with the Copyright Office."

As a result, the analysis of whether Thicke's "Blurred Lines" is substantially similar to Gaye's "Got to Give It Up" won't examine such things as the congruence of percussive choices or backup vocals, though there may or may not be some trial attention on such features in the intrinsic analysis (the judgment of an ordinary person). That issue seems likely to come up again given the reactions by the lawyers provided below.

Judge Kronstadt also addresses Thicke's deposition comments, where he admitted that he had lied to the media about going into the studio with Marvin Gaye in mind and that in fact he didn't have much to do with the creation of "Blurred Lines." This came up because copyright law has a concept called the "inverse-ratio rule" where lots of access to a song necessitates less proof of similarity. The judge writes that "Thicke’s inconsistent statements do not constitute direct evidence of copying," though that hardly helps him today because Marvin Gaye is nearly universally known and Williams and Thicke "concede access," basically meaning they've at least heard Gaye's 1977 hit.

A trial is currently scheduled for February 10, 2015.

Howard King, attorney for the plaintiffs, had this comment about the ruling:

"The ruling is not surprising given the extraordinary difficulty in prevailing at the summary judgment stage, especially where each side offers conflicting opinions from multiple musicologists. Although our musicologist, Sandy Wilbur, correctly testified that there are no two consecutive notes in the two songs that have the same pitch, the same duration, and the same placement in the measure, the Judge concluded that sufficient disagreement about other elements of the compositions warranted denial of the motion. We are gratified that the ruling significantly limits the issues going forward by finding that the Gaye’s cannot assert any infringement claim for elements not included in the sheet music deposited with the copyright office, which effectively eliminates 5 of their 8 claimed similarities. The jury will now decide this case on the merits, limited to what is in the written composition, without being influenced by the sound recordings. Since the compositions at issue are completely different, we remain confident of prevailing at trial."

Richard Busch, attorney for the defendants, had this to say:
"We believe the evidence of copying of Marvin Gaye's legendary work Got To Give It Up is overwhelming and now look forward to trying the case. We also disagree with Mr. King's assessment that the Court ruled that there will be any limitation on what the jury considers at the trial, which involves a different analysis than what the Court analyzes on a motion for summary judgment."

Email: Eriq.Gardner@THR.com
Twitter: @eriqgardner

________________________________________
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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I hope the Gayes lose.
Oct 30th 2014
1
Me too.
Oct 30th 2014
2
I hope producers and artists get more original...n/m
Oct 30th 2014
3
I hope you realize how ridiculous this sounds.
Oct 31st 2014
5
I hope you realize how riddiculous it sounds to have a
Oct 31st 2014
8
      I hope you realize that if they actually end up...
Oct 31st 2014
12
           or like if my favorite producer makes a beat that
Oct 31st 2014
14
                Yep. So fucking frivolous and obnoxious.
Oct 31st 2014
17
A grip of your favorites would be affected by this.
Oct 31st 2014
7
      I view the Thicke song and the Marvin Gaye song to be
Oct 31st 2014
10
      i bet you do.
Oct 31st 2014
11
           they went ON record IN print SEVERAL times
Oct 31st 2014
15
                they didn't use any copyrighted material
Oct 31st 2014
16
                RE: they didn't use any copyrighted material
Oct 31st 2014
19
                I think with the way the music is made today....
Nov 01st 2014
22
                There's 3 billion artists....
Oct 31st 2014
18
                     no man
Oct 31st 2014
21
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ exxxxxxxxxxxxxxxactly.
Oct 31st 2014
13
This means nothing.
Oct 31st 2014
4
      Going to court doesn't exactly mean "nothing"
Oct 31st 2014
6
           they got nothing and will most likely lose.
Oct 31st 2014
9
           RE: Going to court doesn't exactly mean "nothing"
Oct 31st 2014
20

SoWhat
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Thu Oct-30-14 05:58 PM

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1. "I hope the Gayes lose."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The judge limited the comparison @ trial to the sheet music. The notes don't match. The Gayes should lose.

fuck you.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu Oct-30-14 10:23 PM

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2. "Me too. "
In response to Reply # 1


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Thu Oct-30-14 11:59 PM

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3. "I hope producers and artists get more original...n/m"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Fri Oct-31-14 07:56 AM

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5. "I hope you realize how ridiculous this sounds."
In response to Reply # 3
Fri Oct-31-14 07:56 AM by Brew

          

n/m

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Fri Oct-31-14 10:32 AM

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8. "I hope you realize how riddiculous it sounds to have a "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

desire for originality to be dismissed...

it's a shame.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Oct-31-14 11:10 AM

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12. "I hope you realize that if they actually end up..."
In response to Reply # 8


          

ruling in favor of the Gayes that means that no music can ever be made again ever, without the threat of 50,000 lawsuits per song because there's a 0.00001 second note at the 3:21 mark that sounds kinda like a note from an obscure silent movie soundtrack instrumental from the 1920s.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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HotThyng76
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Fri Oct-31-14 11:15 AM

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14. "or like if my favorite producer makes a beat that "
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

feels like say a Dilla beat...my producer can be sued by Dilla's estate.

even if the producer didn't use any element that Dilla actually used - if he makes a beat that just sounds like a Dilla beat, that reminds ppl of a Dilla beat...he may be successfully sued.

same thing if the producer makes a beat w/an old school Marley Marl feel to it...he's toast.

or if my band goes and makes a record that has that Motown feel to it. we can be sued.

or i make a record where i sing in a Michael-Jackson-style w/o borrowing any lyrics or music from MJ's songs or records. if my record just feels too much like an MJ record, i can be sued.

^ this is not what copyright law is supposed to be about. it's supposed to be about being sure folks get paid when someone uses their work to produce a new work. it's not supposed to guarantee payment when someone is INSPIRED by a work.
_______________________

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Fri Oct-31-14 11:27 AM

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17. "Yep. So fucking frivolous and obnoxious. "
In response to Reply # 14


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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The Wordsmith
Member since Aug 13th 2002
17070 posts
Fri Oct-31-14 10:17 AM

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7. "A grip of your favorites would be affected by this."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Oh, that new funk band you love that gives you the stank face every time your favorite jams from them comes on? Well they had better made sure nothing is in their discography that reminds folks of someone else's song, no matter how much the song is different because they can be sued. I can't see how any self respecting music head could possibly get behind that frivolous lawsuit.



Since 1976

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Fri Oct-31-14 10:41 AM

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10. "I view the Thicke song and the Marvin Gaye song to be"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

similar enough to say that this legal action is more than reasonable... I don't see this at all as some abstract similarity where someone is just trying to cash it....

on a basic level the songs sound the same....almost sampled...

and lets remember that Thicke and thems side initiated a legal action...kind of rang like a guilty person being initially extra defensive thinking they would have the edge because they would have access to higher priced lawyers.....

it didn't work out for them..


but again..

add a little more creativity to what you do.... the "making beats" mentality in R&B at some point is always going to risk copying or redo-ing previous tracks because you're not dealing with production coming mostly from composed music played by multiple musicians..along with those musicians individual musicianship....

it's a hazard of the current game

  

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HotThyng76
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Fri Oct-31-14 10:52 AM

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11. "i bet you do."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>on a basic level the songs sound the same....almost
>sampled...

keyword: almost

i've actually compared them one behind the other. i've tried to sing 'Blurred Lines' on top of 'GTGIU' and vice versa. i found that the SONGS don't have enough similar elements to convince me Williams borrowed any copyrighted material. definitely no sample and no interpolation, even.

however when i listen to the records i get a similar FEEL from them. it seems that Williams may have borrowed some production elements - some inspiration. as far as i know production elements and feel aren't copyrighted material.

i get the same feeling when i hear George Duke's 'Dukie Stick'. that shit sounds just like a P-Funk record. the statute of limitations has already run so Clinton or Balaban or Warner Brothers or Universal won't be able to sue Duke or whomever is responsible for 'Dukie Stick'.

i get the same feeling when i hear 'Got To Be Real' and 'Best of My Love'. the feel like the same song. i confuse them when i hear them. it's too late for a suit on that stuff too though.

>and lets remember that Thicke and thems side initiated a legal
>action...kind of rang like a guilty person being initially
>extra defensive thinking they would have the edge because they
>would have access to higher priced lawyers.....

it was more like a pre-emptive move by Thicke/Williams - they wanted a judge to tell the Gayes to have a seat and stop threatening legal action.

>it didn't work out for them..

sure didn't.

>add a little more creativity to what you do.... the "making
>beats" mentality in R&B at some point is always going to risk
>copying or redo-ing previous tracks because you're not dealing
>with production coming mostly from composed music played by
>multiple musicians..along with those musicians individual
>musicianship....
>
>it's a hazard of the current game

the hazard is pretty old though. it's at least as old as 'Dukie Stick', 'Got To Be Real', James Brown's 'Hot' (actually stole copyrighted material from Bowie's 'Fame'), Ready for the World's 'Oh Sheila' (FEELS like a Prince record).... we can come up w/several old examples of this practice. it's not that new, really.

  

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fire
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Fri Oct-31-14 11:16 AM

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15. "they went ON record IN print SEVERAL times"
In response to Reply # 11


          

STATING that they were listening to g.t.g.i.u. and wanted to record a s song just like it. lol, they told on themselves.

________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

  

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HotThyng76
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Fri Oct-31-14 11:21 AM

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16. "they didn't use any copyrighted material"
In response to Reply # 15
Fri Oct-31-14 11:23 AM by HotThyng76

  

          

in making a record that sounds or feels like GTGIU.

so they shouldn't have to pay the Gayes.

and if they do have to pay the Gayes then a lot of acts who've made records that sound/feel like other records may also have to pay up.

i mean, i think Thicke and Williams are massive douchebags but they gotta win here. i love Gaye's music more than anything Thicke and Williams have made but the Gaye family gotta lose here.
_______________________

  

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Brew
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Fri Oct-31-14 11:32 AM

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19. "RE: they didn't use any copyrighted material"
In response to Reply # 16


          

>and if they do have to pay the Gayes then a lot of acts who've
>made records that sound/feel like other records may also have
>to pay up.

Literally every artist ever, besides the first person who ever made a song, will owe and will be owed money. Bunch of fuckery.

----------------------------------------

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Warren Coolidge
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Sat Nov-01-14 12:31 PM

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22. "I think with the way the music is made today...."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

and I've been saying this on this site for years actually..

that there are going to be continued legal challenges regarding copyright laws that will challenge the fact that "copying a vibe, or a feel of a previous record" ..using "computers" to make music....should not be considered the same as having musicians playing instruments who are trying to get the same vibe or feel from a previous record...

I'm not saying that it is or isn't the same...but what I am saying is that with the prevelance of the current technological music making process... you are going to see more legal challenges like this..and it's more than possible that they may prevail in the long run with the right legal argument...

  

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Brew
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Fri Oct-31-14 11:30 AM

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18. "There's 3 billion artists...."
In response to Reply # 15


          

over the course of recorded history who went ON record IN print stating that they were listening to a particular artist/song/album and wanted their sound/song/album to have a similar feel.

I mean I honestly can't believe that people on THIS SITE, of all places, are arguing in favor of this frivolous bullshit. EVERY SINGLE ARTIST IN THE HISTORY OF EARTH has been inspired by someone who came before them. There would literally be one song ever if this shit were in place from the very beginning. "You can't make music! Music is MINE!"

What a joke.

----------------------------------------

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makaveli
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21. "no man"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

the law clearly states you are not allowed to make music if you've ever listened to music before.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Brew
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13. "^^^^^^^^^^^^^ exxxxxxxxxxxxxxxactly."
In response to Reply # 7


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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CRM
Member since Aug 06th 2007
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Fri Oct-31-14 05:43 AM

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4. "This means nothing. "
In response to Reply # 1


          

Just means it's going to court.

The Gayes do not have a leg to stand on. A musicologist would rip their claim to bits. The only thing that's been nicked is the vibe.

  

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woe.is.me.
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6. "Going to court doesn't exactly mean "nothing""
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>Just means it's going to court.
>
>The Gayes do not have a leg to stand on.

If they had "no leg to stand on" they wouldn't be in court.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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HotThyng76
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Fri Oct-31-14 10:34 AM

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9. "they got nothing and will most likely lose."
In response to Reply # 6
Fri Oct-31-14 10:37 AM by HotThyng76

  

          

check this:

"There was much controversy between the two sides as to whether Gaye's copyrights are limited to sheet music compositions or whether they extend to features heard on the "Got to Give It Up" sound recording. For the purposes of the analysis, the judge looks to the 1909 Copyright Act, which would have given the Gaye family the right to include more than just the sheet music if the work was published with proper notices or part of necessary deposits at the Copyright Office. The judge concludes that the Gaye family hasn't sufficiently shown it did either, and thus, they "have failed to produce evidence that creates a genuine issue as to whether the copyrights in 'Got to Give It Up' and 'After the Dance' encompass material other than that reflected in the lead sheets deposited with the Copyright Office."

As a result, the analysis of whether Thicke's "Blurred Lines" is substantially similar to Gaye's "Got to Give It Up" won't examine such things as the congruence of percussive choices or backup vocals, though there may or may not be some trial attention on such features in the intrinsic analysis (the judgment of an ordinary person). That issue seems likely to come up again given the reactions by the lawyers provided below."


^ in order to have the best shot at winning the Gayes needed to be able to use elements of the 'Got To Give It Up' RECORD that the judge now says won't be allowed. we've said here and musicologists have agreed that the compositional elements of the 2 songs at issue don't match. if anything the 2 records have similar 'feel'. if anything Williams borrowed production elements from Gaye. those production elements aren't copyrighted - only the sheet music material is copyrighted. so that's all that'll be compared at the trial. and the sheet musics for the 2 songs don't match up.

so the Gayes should lose at trial. but who knows? juries do strange things sometimes. a jury could find for the Gayes for the same reasons it seems some folks here support the Gayes - anti-white sentiment, anti-Thicke/anti-Williams sentiment, pro-Gaye sentiment.
_______________________

  

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CRM
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Fri Oct-31-14 12:58 PM

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20. "RE: Going to court doesn't exactly mean "nothing""
In response to Reply # 6


          

They will lose and they know it. They just want to cause massive inconvenience. The Marvin Gaye estate has more than enough money to do this just to be a nuisance.

Again, there is NO copyright infringement going on here with "Got To Give It Up".

The judge is clearly not the most informed person.

>>Just means it's going to court.
>>
>>The Gayes do not have a leg to stand on.
>
>If they had "no leg to stand on" they wouldn't be in court.

  

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