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fire
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Mon Oct-27-14 01:18 PM

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"this james brown doc is gonna be great! "


          

http://www.avclub.com/review/hbos-james-brown-doc-mr-dynamite-works-hard-its-su-210818

By Joshua Alston Oct 27, 2014 12:00 AM
A-
Mr. Dynamite: The Rise Of James Brown
Director: Alex Gibney
Runtime: 120 minutes
Rating: TV-14
Cast: Mick Jagger, Bobby Byrd, Clyde Stubblefield
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James Brown’s legacy as a soul virtuoso is unchallenged, but there’s an equally fervent consensus about his tyranny. It’s a duality so common as to be cliché—the relentlessness fueling an artist’s output wreaks havoc on every other facet of his life—but that familiarity doesn’t make a life as singular, as complicated, and as messy as Brown’s any easier to distill into a screen narrative. In fact, to tell Brown’s life story without leaning too far toward hagiography or censure requires a level of discipline on par with Brown’s—no easy feat when objective descriptions of his ceaseless touring schedule sound as hyperbolic as campfire legends.

Alex Gibney’s Mr. Dynamite: The Rise Of James Brown is an assured threading-of-the-needle, slowly working its way to the sweet spot where the man and the legend overlap. Gibney is the ideal director for a Brown documentary, with a resume including his journey into a luminary’s heart of darkness in 2013’s The Armstrong Lie as well as this year’s Finding Fela, Gibney’s portrait of Afrobeat visionary Fela Kuti, whose loving interpretation of Brown’s stage shows fostered mutual admiration and as well as a habit of both artists openly cribbing from each other.

With the blessing of Brown’s estate, Gibney was granted unprecedented access to archival performance and interview footage, and Mr. Dynamite wears that access proudly, with Gibney jamming as much performance into the film as it can hold. From its opening frames, Mr. Dynamite lets Brown make the case for himself with his plaintive vocals and rubber-limbed juking. The stage footage is the star of the show, and for good reason, as to watch the blistering performances that earned Brown his “Hardest Working Man In Show Business” moniker is to think the superlative is too faint praise.

Gibney’s emphasis on the archival footage—some of which has never been aired—leaves less time for talking-head psychoanalysis, but there’s also plenty of that, with sharp insights from such key Brown bandmates as drummer Clyde Stubblefield, saxophonist Maceo Parker, and Danny Ray, the funk acolyte whose stage responsibility was to toss a cape over a possum-playing Brown before he roared back to life. The contextual commentary from interviewees including culture critic Greg Tate and jazz bassist Christian McBride are often just as welcome, helping to create a portrait that doesn’t ignore, but is not primarily interested in the dirt under Brown’s fingernails.

Brown’s ruthlessness as a bandleader is well-documented, and his bandmates do in Mr. Dynamite what they’ve always done: revering Brown’s prodigious musical talents and the ingenuity of his performance concepts while bemoaning his bullying. Brown reprimanded players on stage and was obsessed with immaculate presentation, often withholding a band member’s nightly wage if he was careless enough to show up without perfectly creased pants.

Brown’s fee disputes with his band, which led to more than one mass exodus, goes to one of Mr. Dynamite’s central themes—the degree to which Brown’s perfectionist streak imperiled the same success it fostered. Brown was a tyrant, to be sure, but his underlying crime was impatience, his inability to accept that his band members couldn’t always keep up with him during a period in which it wasn’t uncommon for them to play a half-dozen two-hour sets in a single day. He proudly wore his Hardest Working Man In Show Business nickname, yet couldn’t accept that to be the best was to be unmatched, even by those he relied upon to execute his vision. But those tales, while ethically unsavory, still burnish Brown’s image as a funk god, with the possible exception of the time drummer Melvin Parker was forced to pull a gun on him.

That isn’t to say Brown escapes Mr. Dynamite unscathed. The film maintains its tight focus on Brown’s golden era in the back half of the 1960s, flicking only briefly at his remarkably difficult childhood in a series of title cards, for example. But Gibney doesn’t attempt to elide Brown’s shortcomings. Rev. Al Sharpton lends a startling view into Brown’s inner turmoil, addressing Brown’s history of violence against women via Brown’s remarks after Sharpton witnessed the tail end of one of his domestic-violence incidents. “He said, ‘Reverend, don’t ever hit a woman,’” Sharpton says. “He said, ‘Don’t be like me. I come from generations of that. It’s wrong.’”

Where Mr. Dynamite falters is when it most resembles Get On Up, Tate Taylor’s limp noodle of a Brown biopic. Much like the Hollywood version, Mr. Dynamite occasionally gets bogged down in simplistic Freudian psychoanalysis, using Brown’s maternal abandonment as a unifying theory to explain any and every one of his idiosyncrasies. The use of the departure of Brown’s mother as a lens introduces a subtly sexist tone, implying that her betrayal is responsible for all of Brown’s worst qualities and none of his best, whereas absentee-father narratives tend to credit irresponsible men for forcing their children to embrace self-reliance.

Of course, Mr. Dynamite has an advantage Get On Up doesn’t: Brown himself. Chadwick Boseman delivered an admirable performance, but it naturally withers in comparison to the genuine article. Mick Jagger, who also serves as producer, testifies to this, recalling the time he conned Brown into performing on an episode of The Ed Sullivan Show on which Brown preceded The Rolling Stones. There are few fates worse than having to follow the Godfather Of Soul.

________________________________________
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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Thx for the Reminder
Oct 27th 2014
1
RE: Thx for the Reminder
Nov 02nd 2014
50
Lemme go head and set the DVR now. Nm
Oct 27th 2014
2
An hour in, and this is insane
Oct 27th 2014
3
The mustache period.... lol
Oct 27th 2014
4
the eyebrow pencil methods used by j.b. are horrifying
Nov 02nd 2014
51
yeah....great documentary..
Oct 27th 2014
5
'twas on the 1!
Oct 27th 2014
6
Where to begin...
Oct 27th 2014
7
Can't wait to see this.
Oct 27th 2014
8
I've just grown tired of biopics.
Oct 28th 2014
22
the fact that clyde stubblefield HATES funky drummer is absolutely
Nov 02nd 2014
52
Very enjoyable, though it also felt very incomplete.
Oct 28th 2014
9
it was called the RISE of James Brown...
Oct 28th 2014
13
Like I said: It didn't end, it stopped.
Oct 28th 2014
14
      RE: Like I said: It didn't end, it stopped.
Oct 28th 2014
15
      Chill. I'm POASTIN.
Oct 28th 2014
18
           I thought about that post last night while watching the doc
Oct 28th 2014
20
      made a post about what?
Oct 28th 2014
16
      Learn how asterisked footnotes work,
Oct 28th 2014
17
           oh that post...lol....
Oct 28th 2014
19
                As usual, the truth is never a part of your agenda.
Oct 28th 2014
21
                     before you go on....
Oct 28th 2014
23
                          I already did show you.
Oct 28th 2014
24
                               nope.... again..you made an accusation...back it up..or bail out
Oct 28th 2014
25
                                    At times I wonder why I degrade myself by entertaining you.
Oct 28th 2014
26
                                         you're not the only one who wonders about that.
Oct 28th 2014
30
                                         I admit: It's a compulsion.
Oct 28th 2014
31
                                         exactly....
Oct 28th 2014
32
                                              RE: exactly....
Oct 30th 2014
37
                                                   The funny thing though
Oct 30th 2014
38
                                                   RE: The funny thing though
Oct 30th 2014
39
                                                   James Brown's view of the Vietnam ware is consistent
Oct 30th 2014
43
                                                   dude...
Oct 30th 2014
42
                                                   I think there was a "generational" element about his support
Oct 30th 2014
41
      RE: Like I said: It didn't end, it stopped.
Oct 28th 2014
27
      there was a 3 hour version
Oct 31st 2014
46
           cool...a Director's cut would be awesome...
Oct 31st 2014
48
           RE: cool...a Director's cut would be awesome...
Nov 02nd 2014
53
           whew lawd....4 hours?!
Nov 02nd 2014
54
           Yeah, I'd watch a whole series with all this stuff
Nov 03rd 2014
59
how'd I know you two would be going at it in here
Oct 31st 2014
44
      ^^^^
Oct 31st 2014
47
      my beautiful post
Nov 02nd 2014
55
Where? When?
Oct 28th 2014
10
HBO last night.
Oct 28th 2014
11
      I'll check for it
Oct 28th 2014
12
wonder what alex gibney's next docu will be...
Oct 28th 2014
28
Did you cop George's autobio?
Oct 28th 2014
29
      nope...
Oct 29th 2014
34
           quite.
Oct 29th 2014
35
                book or movie?
Nov 02nd 2014
56
                     RE: book or movie?
Nov 02nd 2014
57
this was pretty awesome nm
Oct 29th 2014
33
well damn...
Oct 30th 2014
36
there's some concert footage in this
Oct 30th 2014
40
I enjoyed it a lot. I think it's a great starting point for younger fans
Oct 31st 2014
45
Great doc. The best music doc I've seen.
Nov 01st 2014
49
Forgot all about this. Will watch it tonight for sure
Nov 03rd 2014
58

RaphaelSoulLee
Member since May 21st 2003
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Mon Oct-27-14 03:45 PM

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1. "Thx for the Reminder"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It takes all kinds to make up a world, son. -My pops

I just live for the comments -Da wiz

  

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fire
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Sun Nov-02-14 01:02 PM

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50. "RE: Thx for the Reminder"
In response to Reply # 1


          

<3

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http://instagram.com/firefire100
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Binlahab
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Mon Oct-27-14 06:49 PM

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2. "Lemme go head and set the DVR now. Nm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Mon Oct-27-14 09:04 PM

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3. "An hour in, and this is insane "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Missed the first 15 minutes, so I DVRed it for later, but I think I'm going to keep watching regardless.

So much great stuff far, but it's still really hard to top the TAMI show.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Mon Oct-27-14 09:54 PM

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4. "The mustache period.... lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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fire
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Sun Nov-02-14 01:06 PM

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51. "the eyebrow pencil methods used by j.b. are horrifying"
In response to Reply # 4


          

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Mon Oct-27-14 09:55 PM

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5. "yeah....great documentary.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

very well done..

  

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ceeq9
Member since Jul 21st 2005
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Mon Oct-27-14 10:08 PM

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6. " 'twas on the 1!"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Oct-27-14 10:09 PM by ceeq9

  

          

====================================
when cannibal confronts missionary, who is religious and who insane..the one eating people, the other converting them... (c) James Hillman

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Mon Oct-27-14 10:22 PM

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7. "Where to begin..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

+ My ol' man had that James Brown Apollo record, and my favorite part was hearing the announcer introduce him. Like, THAT introduction? Hearing that as a kid is what made James Brown larger than life for me. So I was hyped when they showcased him in this story. I had no idea he was the same guy that draped the cape on him. That was a great story.

+ ?uestlove and Alan Leeds were great.

+ Clyde Stubblefiled and the Funky Drummer story was amazing. NEVER knew the story behind that break. That story alone (which was only 4 minutes of the entire documentary) pretty much made it for me. I played that section 3 times.

+ I really enjoyed the performance and stories surrounding the Tami Show performance with Mick Jagger.

+ Bootsy was also very good. There's actually a fantastic interview with him on the BULLSEYE podcast with Jesse Thorn where he tells these same stories, but better. I suggest if you have time to check that out.

+ I ragged on the GET ON UP movie hard. I think I remember saying, "Why didn't they just do a James Brown documentary"? Well, here it was. Well done. In fact, I'd love to see a continuation Funk documentary that begins where this ended. The entire philosophy of "The 1" spawned a whole sub genre of music in Funk. And the groups that came out of there: Parliament Funkadelic, The Ohio Players, Bootsy...I mean

https://digife.com

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Mon Oct-27-14 11:15 PM

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8. "Can't wait to see this."
In response to Reply # 7


          

Why are people so critical of 'get on up'? I gotta admit....I was soooooo stoked to see it...then got discouraged by all the reviews and word of mouth. Finally ended up seeing it and I thought it was awesome! They really nailed his musical essence too....the 'every instrument is a drum'. And the move away from composition that he represented. So what's the problem?

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Tue Oct-28-14 12:59 PM

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22. "I've just grown tired of biopics."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Especially about people of color.

https://digife.com

  

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fire
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Sun Nov-02-14 01:12 PM

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52. "the fact that clyde stubblefield HATES funky drummer is absolutely"
In response to Reply # 7


          

hilarious

________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Oct-28-14 07:59 AM

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9. "Very enjoyable, though it also felt very incomplete."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It didn't so much end as it just stopped.

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Tue Oct-28-14 10:59 AM

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13. "it was called the RISE of James Brown..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

it stopped where the Rise stopped...

they could have gone beyond Michael, Prince and hip hop to discuss James Brown's musical influence at the end though..

but otherwise it accomplished what it set out to do.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Oct-28-14 11:30 AM

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14. "Like I said: It didn't end, it stopped."
In response to Reply # 13
Tue Oct-28-14 11:44 AM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

Please try to understand this.

I'm not complaining that they didn't cover enough of his life. I'm saying there was not a real conclusion to the portion that they did choose to cover. There was no real denouement. It's like you look at the clock and they're like "Ooops! It's 10:56, so we better round this shit up quick!"

One minute we're talking about James Brown's support for Nixon and the problems of his inherent conservatism* and then there's a quick mention of how that costed him, a quick flash of black people picketing against James Brown... but not much real elaboration about the cost.

All of a sudden we're looking at videos of Michael and Prince and talk about James' legacy, and Ahmir talking about the influence of the "mustache period" (which is never actually defined for the lay audience) and then it's over.

The third act was undeveloped to nonexistent, really.






*by the way: who made a post about that about 2 or 3 years ago and had the Lesson bend over backwards to try to shout him down and abuse him?

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue Oct-28-14 12:00 PM

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15. "RE: Like I said: It didn't end, it stopped."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          


>
>
>*by the way: who made a post about that about 2 or 3 years ago
>and had the Lesson bend over backwards to try to shout him
>down and abuse him?

It was in January 2012, and the "The Lesson" didn't try to shout you down, just three posters. The rest was reasoned and fairly intelligent discussion.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Oct-28-14 12:10 PM

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18. "Chill. I'm POASTIN."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>It was in January 2012, and the "The Lesson" didn't try to
>shout you down, just three posters. The rest was reasoned and
>fairly intelligent discussion.

Yeah, I thought it was in 2012 myself but I edited to say "2 or 3" because a part of my head was saying it was late 2011.

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mrhood75
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Tue Oct-28-14 12:41 PM

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20. "I thought about that post last night while watching the doc"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Specifically when they were talking about "Black and Proud", and the specific comment about how, at that time, with everything that was going on, you really had to "take a side" or at least make a statement.

I also thought the stuff about how Mr. Brown was actually a calming influence during those times and at different flashpoints was really interesting.

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Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

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Warren Coolidge
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Tue Oct-28-14 12:03 PM

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16. "made a post about what?"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          


>*by the way: who made a post about that about 2 or 3 years ago
>and had the Lesson bend over backwards to try to shout him
>down and abuse him?
>

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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17. "Learn how asterisked footnotes work,"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Tue Oct-28-14 12:35 PM

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19. "oh that post...lol...."
In response to Reply # 17
Tue Oct-28-14 12:47 PM by Warren Coolidge

  

          

of course since it's not archived you will lie about what went down in there...

but you used James Brown's conservatism to dismiss his connection to the Black Power movement...and again..I brought out facts..along with some pretty interesting quotes from RICHARD NIXON HIMSELF to prove you were wrong..

Sure James Brown was conservative...most Black men born in the south during that era who made it out of poverty were conservative....particularly since in those men's youth, it was the Democratic party who housed the racists and fought against Blacks having rights, while the Republican party of that time had at least a perceived place at the table for Blacks.

So James Brown supporting Nixon wasn't really as far fetched...

what you missed was the historical context of Blacks who had elevated out of poverty and their connection to those political parties...

you also ..again..used that out of context connection to dismiss the Black Power movement and Brown's connection to it..

I recall my favorite evidence I presented during that debate would have been the citations of Richard Nixon's own words in courting the "BLACK POWER MOVEMENT" ... it was a very specific strategy initiated by his campaign to directly market to those who followed the Black power movement by equating "power" with economic power. In reality it actually turned out to be somewhat of a bribe, without the promised actions in the end...

to claim that James Brown's conservatism disqualifies him from being an icon of the Black Power movement is a very short-sighted.... narrow-minded point of view that would come from someone who either has a real lack of understanding regarding the facts around the issue..or someone with the agenda of discrediting the Black power movement and/or Mr. Brown.

in the words of Marcus Garvey....the Honorable Elijah Muhammad...and many others whose works and words are at the core of Black Nationalism and the Black Power movement.... there is a constant them of doing for self...self determination and self-responsibility that is very much in line with the so-called rhetoric from conservative political ideology.... It's building..not begging.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Oct-28-14 12:51 PM

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21. "As usual, the truth is never a part of your agenda."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

>of course since it's not archived you will lie about what
>went down in there...

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=151272&mesg_id=151272&listing_type=search

>but you used James Brown's conservatism to dismiss his
>connection to the Black Power movement...and again..I brought
>out facts..along with some pretty interesting quotes from
>RICHARD NIXON HIMSELF to prove you were wrong..

I said that James Brown was not a fan of the BPP and most of the "revolutionary" Black Power groups... this is all true.

>Sure James Brown was conservative...most Black men born in the
>south during that era who made it out of poverty were
>conservative....particularly since in those men's youth, it
>was the Democratic party who housed the racists and fought
>against Blacks having rights, while the Republican party of
>that time had at least a perceived place at the table for
>Blacks.

Actually, you not only tried to deny James Brown was conservative... you showed your political and historical ignorance by denying that Booker T. Washington (The Ideological Father of the Black Conservative Movement) was conservative.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=151272&mesg_id=151272&listing_type=search#151426


>I recall my favorite evidence I presented during that debate
>would have been the citations of Richard Nixon's own words in
>courting the "BLACK POWER MOVEMENT" ... it was a very
>specific strategy initiated by his campaign to directly market
>to those who followed the Black power movement by equating
>"power" with economic power. In reality it actually turned
>out to be somewhat of a bribe, without the promised actions in
>the end...

Actually, what really happened was that you tried to *defend* Nixon and argue that JB was right to support him because Nixon was empowering blacks through that program.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=151272&mesg_id=151272&listing_type=search#151564

*I* was the one who had to educate you on the fact that Nixon's "Black Power" initiative was an empty ruse.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=151272&mesg_id=151272&listing_type=search#151565

>to claim that James Brown's conservatism disqualifies him from
>being an icon of the Black Power movement is a very
>short-sighted....

I never said it "disqualified" him from anything. The Black Power movement can elevate whoever it wants for an icon... but the fact is that James Brown the man was a conservative who did not approve of such revolutionary politics.

narrow-minded point of view that would come
>from someone who either has a real lack of understanding
>regarding the facts around the issue..or someone with the
>agenda of discrediting the Black power movement and/or Mr.
>Brown.

LOL I love exposing your lies.
>

_____________________

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Warren Coolidge
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23. "before you go on...."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

.
>
>Actually, you not only tried to deny James Brown was
>conservative... you showed your political and historical
>ignorance by denying that Booker T. Washington (The
>Ideological Father of the Black Conservative Movement) was
>conservative.
>

Show me where I said that James Brown wasn't a conservative...

quote exactly where I said that.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Oct-28-14 01:17 PM

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24. "I already did show you."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

You tried to go into some convoluted explanation of how black folk back in the day were Republicans but you reject the use of the word "conservative" because (in your personal definition) "conservative" = "disdain for black folks" and some other shit about how the term "conservative" is too tied in to contemporary definitions, etc etc.

Basically, a bunch of bullshit.


(As usual)

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Warren Coolidge
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Tue Oct-28-14 02:13 PM

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25. "nope.... again..you made an accusation...back it up..or bail out"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

>You tried to go into some convoluted explanation of how black
>folk back in the day were Republicans but you reject the use
>of the word "conservative" because (in your personal
>definition) "conservative" = "disdain for black folks" and
>some other shit about how the term "conservative" is too tied
>in to contemporary definitions, etc etc.
>
>Basically, a bunch of bullshit.
>
>
>(As usual)

of the discussion...

You claimed I said that James Brown wasn't a conservative.

provide the quote that supports that claim

you consistently make stuff up..then when called on it... you can't back it up..

Was James Brown a conservative as the term is defined today?? of course not. That claim is as ridiculous as right wingers claiming Blacks should vote republican because Abe Lincoln freed the slaves...

what was considered a conservative when Brown supported Nixon and what it means in practice today are 2 different things.

But I never claimed that James Brown at that time was not a conservative....and your claim that I did is a flat out lie.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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26. "At times I wonder why I degrade myself by entertaining you."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

But okay.. let's play that game.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=151272&mesg_id=151272&listing_type=search#151327

See dude...this is what I'm saying...You are making shit up...flat out lying about historical events to advance your agenda...

Perfect example right here of a complete lack of intellectual integrity..and simple dishonesty..

James Brown was really a "conservative" and only deviated from that message in his music because the Black Panthers had guns and bullied him....

you ought to be ashamed of yourself for making up such an outrageous claim..

it's truely shameful.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=151272&mesg_id=151272&listing_type=search#151486

the tennants and philosphy of so-called Black Conservatism can be cound in the philoslphies of Marcus Garvey...the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad....Brother Noble Drew Ali ...The Black Panther party....the Nation of Gods and Earths.....

I can draw multiple clear connections between Booker T. Washington's views and the views of all of these groups and people...

That's the part that you are missing.... there is nothing pro education...pro-doing for self that exclusively Conservative...or exclusively on the right...

it's weak to find those elements in James Brown and try to align him with Black conservatives while either ignoring those elements of him that are rooted in the Black Power ideolgocial philosophy or those taht are in stark contrast to modern Black conservatism as embodied by Larry Elder, Herman Cain and the other clowns.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=151272&mesg_id=151272&listing_type=search#151564

So really all this to say that James Brown's support of Nixon wasn't about kindered conservative spirits joining together to advance a conservative cause. It was about the fact that James Brown grew up in the south during a time when the Republicans weren't standing against civil rights, while Democrats did........and when he became Soul Brother #1...the fukkin Republican President Richard Nixon reached out the the Black Power movement with a level of respect...and with federal loan programs and the other monies that supported Brown's vision of independent Do For Self Black Communities.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=151272&mesg_id=151272&listing_type=search#151463

it shows his view of his own people as being contrary to the view
that so called Black conservatives have of Black people...

you mentioned previously that james brown's message was straight out of the so-called black conservative handbook...all that was missing was claims that racism was no big deal....

also ..one of the primary tennants of black conservatism is the complete rejection of the ideal that crime is a direct result of poverty.... you compared larry elder's views and James brown's views...Elder believes that there is no connection between poverty and crime....People speaking of poverty...people speaking of the lack of employment who draw connections with those things and higher crime rates are rejected by conservatives as making excuses..

James Brown's core views stands in stark contrast of that...

He shows empathy...understanding...and draws a direct connection between the ACTIONS of Black people and their CONDITION in America..

no way that philosophy goes with ANY conservative philosophy...

I'll take it a step further in that the level of humanity that James Brown sees in Black people is also much higher than what is acceptable in the modern Conservative movement... James Brown viewed Black people's condition as worthy of concern and analysis..again, something Conservatives completely reject...


Black self-emPOWERment = Black Power

Modern Black conservatism = Black passivism....

James Brown is not associated with Black Conservatism because he viewed Black people as having more value than the Modern Black Conservative movment wishes to view them. In fact the idea of being considered Black ..as opposed ot just being considred an American is also against Black Conservative philosophy....

You may try to force a connection ....but James Brown is the opposite of the so-called Modern Black conservative.

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SoWhat
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Tue Oct-28-14 06:35 PM

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30. "you're not the only one who wonders about that."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

fuck you.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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31. "I admit: It's a compulsion."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

And like many compulsive behaviors, it leaves me feeling dirty for days afterwards.

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Warren Coolidge
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Tue Oct-28-14 11:50 PM

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32. "exactly...."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

James Brown was conservative.... in the same tradition that probably any Southern Black man who lifted themselves out of poverty from that era...

but to associate him with the Modern Black Conservative as way to disconnect him from the Black Power movement is more than off base


the Modern Black Conservative pretty much relishes in being an Uncle Tom in the sense that their political alignment is used to draw a distinction away from the masses of Black American...while James Brown's conservatism was about raising the Black community from the grass roots..and defining themselves AS BLACK PEOPLE...

the Modern Black Conservative really doesn't want to be Black at all.... James Brown is one of the central figures in Black American's defining themselves AS Black..


Those who wish to discredit the Black Power movement...incorrectly define it....narrow it's scope...and will twist history any way possible to disconnecting any positive people or elements from it.

(kind of like claiming that Pro Black hip hop destroyed a generation...lolol..... yet the Black Americans who were moved by that era are probably the most educated and wealthy Black people of that same age demographic of any Black people on the planet currently)

the revolutionary aspect of the Black power movement was rooted in doing for self...and self definition.... it wasn't about what you could get or wanted out of White Folks..it was about what you could do for yourself...

that message what in James Brown's music BEFORE the Black power movment....

that message was in James Brown's words as a public figure BEFORE the Black power movement....

that message was in James Brown's actions and endeavors BEFORE the Black power movement..

I mean calling yourself BLACK..and communicating a pride in doing so is about as BLACK NATIONALISTIC as you can get...lol...

James Brown was the personification of Black Power...he was and individual symbol for what the end game of Black Nationalism was/is..

to quote Marcus Garvey


"There is no force like success, and that is why the individual makes all effort to surround himself throughout life with the evidence of it; as of the individual, so should it be of the nation."

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Thu Oct-30-14 01:44 AM

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37. "RE: exactly...."
In response to Reply # 32
Thu Oct-30-14 01:48 AM by murph71

          

>James Brown was conservative.... in the same tradition that
>probably any Southern Black man who lifted themselves out of
>poverty from that era...
>
>but to associate him with the Modern Black Conservative as way
>to disconnect him from the Black Power movement is more than
>off base
>
>
>the Modern Black Conservative pretty much relishes in being an
>Uncle Tom in the sense that their political alignment is used
>to draw a distinction away from the masses of Black
>American...while James Brown's conservatism was about raising
>the Black community from the grass roots..and defining
>themselves AS BLACK PEOPLE...
>
>the Modern Black Conservative really doesn't want to be Black
>at all.... James Brown is one of the central figures in Black
>American's defining themselves AS Black..
>
>
>Those who wish to discredit the Black Power
>movement...incorrectly define it....narrow it's scope...and
>will twist history any way possible to disconnecting any
>positive people or elements from it.
>
>(kind of like claiming that Pro Black hip hop destroyed a
>generation...lolol..... yet the Black Americans who were
>moved by that era are probably the most educated and wealthy
>Black people of that same age demographic of any Black people
>on the planet currently)
>
>the revolutionary aspect of the Black power movement was
>rooted in doing for self...and self definition.... it wasn't
>about what you could get or wanted out of White Folks..it was
>about what you could do for yourself...
>
>that message what in James Brown's music BEFORE the Black
>power movment....
>
>that message was in James Brown's words as a public figure
>BEFORE the Black power movement....
>
>that message was in James Brown's actions and endeavors BEFORE
>the Black power movement..
>
>I mean calling yourself BLACK..and communicating a pride in
>doing so is about as BLACK NATIONALISTIC as you can
>get...lol...
>
>James Brown was the personification of Black Power...he was
>and individual symbol for what the end game of Black
>Nationalism was/is..
>
>to quote Marcus Garvey
>
>
>"There is no force like success, and that is why the
>individual makes all effort to surround himself throughout
>life with the evidence of it; as of the individual, so should
>it be of the nation."


This^^^ is pretty much how I view Brown's Conservative link...Brown seemed more like the classic pull your self up Conservative. Even with his apalling support of Nixon it was obvious that James was on that business. His aim was economic power and his own ego more than anything else... Not todays Republican mindset. Something tells me that if Brown would not be endorsing the Conservative mindset of today given how racialized its become. I mean black voter suppression is not something Brown would get behind...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Thu Oct-30-14 03:02 AM

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38. "The funny thing though"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

is that if you look at the original post, I never said James Brown was "today's conservative" (whatever the fuck that even means).

I placed it into historical context, but certain people--out of their pathological need to disagree with and discredit everything I say--opted to act brand new and construct a scarecrow argument about the difference between "today's black conservative" and "the traditional black conservative"

(The only thing I said that could have even entertained such a view was my original reference to Larry Elder... which was simply a dramatic turn of phrase which I later withdrew to avoid confusion. Even though Larry Elder's essential position IS mostly identical to James Brown's)

Anyway, murph... if you want to argue that James was simply a "pull yourself up" black man but not really politically conservative--please explain to me his support for H. Hubert Humphrey. Please explain to me his support for the Vietnam war at a time when anybody who had a lick of sense and compassion was opposed to it.

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Thu Oct-30-14 09:44 AM

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39. "RE: The funny thing though"
In response to Reply # 38


          

>is that if you look at the original post, I never said James
>Brown was "today's conservative" (whatever the fuck that even
>means).
>
>I placed it into historical context, but certain people--out
>of their pathological need to disagree with and discredit
>everything I say--opted to act brand new and construct a
>scarecrow argument about the difference between "today's black
>conservative" and "the traditional black conservative"
>
>(The only thing I said that could have even entertained such a
>view was my original reference to Larry Elder... which was
>simply a dramatic turn of phrase which I later withdrew to
>avoid confusion. Even though Larry Elder's essential position
>IS mostly identical to James Brown's)
>
>Anyway, murph... if you want to argue that James was simply a
>"pull yourself up" black man but not really politically
>conservative--please explain to me his support for H. Hubert
>Humphrey. Please explain to me his support for the Vietnam war
>at a time when anybody who had a lick of sense and compassion
>was opposed to it.

First let me say that you created one of the most insightful, controversial, and thought-provoking threads EVER on this site when you dissected JB's Conservative stripes. There's a reason why people go back to that post seemingly every year....Salute, sir...

As for JB's support of Humphrey I think Alan Leeds said it best...Brown's own dogged, enormous ego fueled his support for H.H. given that H.H. rolled out the red carpet for Soul Brother No. 1. And his education platform was a HUGE attraction for Brown who was on that "don't be a drop out" steez....Like many black folks, Brown bet on the Democratic party because of the Civil Rights policies that were signed by LBJ. Remember, while Brown didn't agree with many of the non-violent strategies preached by King he def. showed his public support for the movement before MLK' assassination....

But when he saw Humphrey losing steam and the chaotic state of the Democratic party (those wild Chicago protests and riots outside the Democratic Convention turned A LOT of people off) who by that point had no chance of winning he bet on Nixon because as Leeds noted in that documentary Brown was about betting on sure things; the winners.

As for his Vietnam support it's been well documented (right or wrong) that Brown saw such support as a call of duty for Black America. He believed that in order for Blacks to truly be accepted as citizens of the US they had to be in support of US foreign policies. I don't subscribe to that line of thinking. But old school blacks believed in that philosophy...That was Brown's Black Conservatism coming out...

I think at times too much is made of Brown's political leanings...Really, when it came down to it, JB was all about JB....I think more than anything his music and cultural influence was more revolutionary than any actual words that came out his mouth outside of the recording studio....The essence of James Brown was the true Revolution despite his head scratching contradictions...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Thu Oct-30-14 04:57 PM

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43. "James Brown's view of the Vietnam ware is consistent"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

>>is that if you look at the original post, I never said
>James
>>Brown was "today's conservative" (whatever the fuck that
>even
>>means).
>>
>>I placed it into historical context, but certain people--out
>>of their pathological need to disagree with and discredit
>>everything I say--opted to act brand new and construct a
>>scarecrow argument about the difference between "today's
>black
>>conservative" and "the traditional black conservative"
>>
>>(The only thing I said that could have even entertained such
>a
>>view was my original reference to Larry Elder... which was
>>simply a dramatic turn of phrase which I later withdrew to
>>avoid confusion. Even though Larry Elder's essential
>position
>>IS mostly identical to James Brown's)
>>
>>Anyway, murph... if you want to argue that James was simply
>a
>>"pull yourself up" black man but not really politically
>>conservative--please explain to me his support for H. Hubert
>>Humphrey. Please explain to me his support for the Vietnam
>war
>>at a time when anybody who had a lick of sense and
>compassion
>>was opposed to it.
>
>First let me say that you created one of the most insightful,
>controversial, and thought-provoking threads EVER on this site
>when you dissected JB's Conservative stripes. There's a reason
>why people go back to that post seemingly every
>year....Salute, sir...
>
>As for JB's support of Humphrey I think Alan Leeds said it
>best...Brown's own dogged, enormous ego fueled his support for
>H.H. given that H.H. rolled out the red carpet for Soul
>Brother No. 1. And his education platform was a HUGE
>attraction for Brown who was on that "don't be a drop out"
>steez....Like many black folks, Brown bet on the Democratic
>party because of the Civil Rights policies that were signed by
>LBJ. Remember, while Brown didn't agree with many of the
>non-violent strategies preached by King he def. showed his
>public support for the movement before MLK' assassination....
>
>But when he saw Humphrey losing steam and the chaotic state of
>the Democratic party (those wild Chicago protests and riots
>outside the Democratic Convention turned A LOT of people off)
>who by that point had no chance of winning he bet on Nixon
>because as Leeds noted in that documentary Brown was about
>betting on sure things; the winners.
>
>As for his Vietnam support it's been well documented (right or
>wrong) that Brown saw such support as a call of duty for Black
>America. He believed that in order for Blacks to truly be
>accepted as citizens of the US they had to be in support of US
>foreign policies. I don't subscribe to that line of thinking.
>But old school blacks believed in that philosophy...That was
>Brown's Black Conservatism coming out...

with as you say..the old school Black thinking of the opportunity to fight for your country as being a means for acceptance as American's. Even in wars before Vietnam, Black people saw the opportunity to fight for their country as being a way to get equal status in America....

without putting it in that context, I think it's inaccurate to say that James Brown supported the Vietnam war as if he believed in the principles and reasoning behind it.


>
>I think at times too much is made of Brown's political
>leanings...Really, when it came down to it, JB was all about
>JB....I think more than anything his music and cultural
>influence was more revolutionary than any actual words that
>came out his mouth outside of the recording studio....The
>essence of James Brown was the true Revolution despite his
>head scratching contradictions...
>

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Thu Oct-30-14 04:49 PM

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42. "dude..."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          


>(The only thing I said that could have even entertained such a
>view was my original reference to Larry Elder... which was
>simply a dramatic turn of phrase which I later withdrew to
>avoid confusion. Even though Larry Elder's essential position
>IS mostly identical to James Brown's)

you simply cannot argue that it's out of line to claim you were putting James Brown in a modern Black conservative context, yet claim that his positions are identical to Larry Elder....lol.

you just can't do that.

James Brown's work was for the uplifting of Black people...Larry Elder uses Black people as mockery for ratings and has no use for them outside of that.



>
>Anyway, murph... if you want to argue that James was simply a
>"pull yourself up" black man but not really politically
>conservative--please explain to me his support for H. Hubert
>Humphrey. Please explain to me his support for the Vietnam war
>at a time when anybody who had a lick of sense and compassion
>was opposed to it.

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Thu Oct-30-14 04:36 PM

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41. "I think there was a "generational" element about his support"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

for Nixon... Like younger people who were around him ..including Rev. Sharpton were probably trying to hip James to the fact that Nixon trying to pull a fast one on James...and that he wasn't really worthy of his support..but James Brown was viewing it through a different pair of glasses so to speak. He wasn't savy enough in the modern socio-political dynamic where the Right wing was claiming to be rooted in previous values...while in reality were moving towards a more divisive and bigoted philosophy. He bought the idea of economic empowerment and felt that like the right wing political party was willing to include Black people in that so-called prosperity... when in reality they were not, and was only using Brown and Sammy Davis and them to get some older Blacks to support them.

the Nixon tapes that have come out over the years really show him to be a person not worthy of respect in a lot of areas...and the dismissiveness he showed towards James Brown and Black people in general on the tapes shown in this documentary just reinforce that. I mean Nixon didn't see James Brown as being worthy of even having a conversation with him.

  

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BootyGreen
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Tue Oct-28-14 05:01 PM

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27. "RE: Like I said: It didn't end, it stopped."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>Please try to understand this.
>
>I'm not complaining that they didn't cover enough of his life.
>I'm saying there was not a real conclusion to the portion that
>they did choose to cover. There was no real denouement. It's
>like you look at the clock and they're like "Ooops! It's
>10:56, so we better round this shit up quick!"
>
>One minute we're talking about James Brown's support for Nixon
>and the problems of his inherent conservatism* and then
>there's a quick mention of how that costed him, a quick flash
>of black people picketing against James Brown... but not much
>real elaboration about the cost.
>
>All of a sudden we're looking at videos of Michael and Prince
>and talk about James' legacy, and Ahmir talking about the
>influence of the "mustache period" (which is never actually
>defined for the lay audience) and then it's over.
>
>The third act was undeveloped to nonexistent, really.


I agree 100% with this. There was no conclusion or smooth transition from the
"mustache period" discussion to the "influence on latter day artists" discussion. Loved it overall though.



>*by the way: who made a post about that about 2 or 3 years ago
>and had the Lesson bend over backwards to try to shout him
>down and abuse him?
>

  

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15
Member since Mar 01st 2005
9915 posts
Fri Oct-31-14 12:19 PM

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46. "there was a 3 hour version"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

we cut MAD ish:

Vietnam portion, (pics and no footage)
black and proud (couldn't find the white kids who were actually saying that line)
the "America is my home" backlash before Nixon
the more involved details of King/Boston (the real issue was james wanted his full pay and the promoter and mayor was like "but the rafters aren't filled, tonight can't be a benefit?"
Alan had amazing story of a night in jail because of a cop who wanted to go home early and james still holding court backstage at venue past hours
fred's stories of james always calling after show rehearsals at the venue to cock block them from getting action in major cities like LA/NYC/Vegas
Alan's Johnny Taylor poker game in memphis story

most were stories

really they had enough for a series but hbo wanted a 2 hour doc.

not 3.

not 4 parts.

i think dvd will have directors cut

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Fri Oct-31-14 12:50 PM

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48. "cool...a Director's cut would be awesome..."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

great job man...

  

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ceeq9
Member since Jul 21st 2005
871 posts
Sun Nov-02-14 01:35 PM

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53. "RE: cool...a Director's cut would be awesome..."
In response to Reply # 48
Sun Nov-02-14 01:38 PM by ceeq9

  

          

damn shole would Quest, make/press/stress them mofos that shit.
====================================
when cannibal confronts missionary, who is religious and who insane..the one eating people, the other converting them... (c) James Hillman

  

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts
Sun Nov-02-14 02:10 PM

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54. "whew lawd....4 hours?! "
In response to Reply # 46


          

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44717 posts
Mon Nov-03-14 05:14 PM

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59. "Yeah, I'd watch a whole series with all this stuff"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Fri Oct-31-14 11:26 AM

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44. "how'd I know you two would be going at it in here"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

lol AND smdh

  

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15
Member since Mar 01st 2005
9915 posts
Fri Oct-31-14 12:21 PM

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47. "^^^^"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

  

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts
Sun Nov-02-14 02:19 PM

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55. "my beautiful post"
In response to Reply # 44


          

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Tue Oct-28-14 08:07 AM

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10. "Where? When? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fuck you.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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84244 posts
Tue Oct-28-14 08:14 AM

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11. "HBO last night."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I actually forgot about it (actually, I never knew what night it was supposed to be on in the first place) until mrhood's reply in this post... I jumped on like an hour in.

(Hello, HBOGo!)

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Tue Oct-28-14 08:42 AM

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12. "I'll check for it"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

fuck you.

  

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GumDrops
Charter member
26088 posts
Tue Oct-28-14 05:16 PM

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28. "wonder what alex gibney's next docu will be..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

clinton?

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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84244 posts
Tue Oct-28-14 06:06 PM

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29. "Did you cop George's autobio?"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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GumDrops
Charter member
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Wed Oct-29-14 12:10 PM

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34. "nope..."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

is it good?

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Wed Oct-29-14 12:17 PM

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35. "quite."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

>is it good?

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts
Sun Nov-02-14 02:29 PM

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56. "book or movie?"
In response to Reply # 35


          

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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84244 posts
Sun Nov-02-14 05:39 PM

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57. "RE: book or movie?"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

http://www.amazon.com/Brothas-Like-George-Funkin-Kinda-ebook/dp/B00IWTWNYC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414967949&sr=8-1&keywords=george+clinton

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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DVS
Member since Sep 13th 2002
19730 posts
Wed Oct-29-14 11:02 AM

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33. "this was pretty awesome nm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

and don't forget to check "DVS 4 ALDERMAN"

http://windimoto.bandcamp.com/album/dvs-4-alderman-bandcamp-exclusive-expanded-editio

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Thu Oct-30-14 01:25 AM

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36. "well damn..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

That was dope as fuck...That studio footage was nuts...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41998 posts
Thu Oct-30-14 04:30 PM

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40. "there's some concert footage in this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that is really high quality...the L'Olympia show footage from like '68 is the best quality video I've seen of that show....

  

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spirit
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21432 posts
Fri Oct-31-14 11:30 AM

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45. "I enjoyed it a lot. I think it's a great starting point for younger fans"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Oct-31-14 11:30 AM by spirit

  

          

My kid dug it. For the ten minutes she sat still to watch it.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
1702 posts
Sat Nov-01-14 04:34 AM

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49. "Great doc. The best music doc I've seen."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Got me thinking James Brown is the all time great ranked #1

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
10982 posts
Mon Nov-03-14 02:28 PM

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58. "Forgot all about this. Will watch it tonight for sure"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

  

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