if you recall it became "cool" to shout-out jay dee, or label him a "genius" for a few years after his death in early 06.
suddenly you had people who could be classified as "mainstream" coming out of the woodwork, rappers/producers alike, clamoring to name check jay dee in interviews.

interestingly enough, during that same period none of those same people or any people outside of the usual suspects bought placements from his estate nor worked with any of his producer contemporaries or disciples.

his work, his sound went largely un-utilized much like it did while he was alive post-ummah.

is it fair to say in retrospect the "RIP dilla" sentiment displayed by upper-echelon mainstream rap luminaries was purely lip service?

imo, if "RIP dilla" or "he was a genius!" was truly a genuine sentiment harbored by some of these people - would these same people not have utilized bonafide or even jay dee-style production between 2006-09? (which was in heavy, heavy abundance...)

same for Michael Jackson, same for Bernie Mac, same for Robin Williams, same for Biggie & 2 Pac

the love and appreciation is never real, just a trend

the key difference between all the names you just listed and jay dee is that their demise actually yielded a financial benefit.
the "love and appreciation" you spoke of was financially expressed: michael jackson, 2pac, biggie sold millions of albums posthumously, i would imagine to some extent there must have been a spike in bernie mac show dvds when he died, etc.

when people were saying "he's a genius!" but wouldn't be caught dead rapping on a jay dee-esque beat on their album - i don't know it seems disingenuous and opportunistic to me.

if the jay dee appreciation in the mainstream was genuine then why did producers who were born out of his influence garner little to no attention in the wake of his passing and new-found mainstream praise?

None of his disciples were anywhere near as good as him so why should artist fuck with them when the man you want to work with is dead? And what mainstream producers are you speaking of because Ye and Pharrell have always mentioned how dope Dilla was.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

if you cant comprehend fandom without trolling about financial yields, so be it

That was him expounding on his original thoughts

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

thanks for replying.

i'm sure most of it is/was lip service
good point about nobody actually using any knock off dilla beats afterwards
not saying he's dilla but lanes should have opened for dudes like black milk who were disciples of dilla

~~~~~~

>i'm sure most of it is/was lip service
>good point about nobody actually using any knock off dilla
>beats afterwards
>not saying he's dilla but lanes should have opened for dudes
>like black milk who were disciples of dilla

exactly.
or madlib, or the several dozen other producers who were doing production in the same vein as jay dee back in 2006-09.

it's interesting that these same mainstream figures shouting him out were turning around and lining the pockets of a bangladesh or a polow da don.

http://fusicology.com/resources/83245/83245_94713_862936898332_l.jpg

team Jay Walkers...

there's still alot of artists that participate in the Donuts R Forever events

and I'd suspect there will be some at the Lupus walk

I think what you are alluding to is a shift in the industry

Dilla killed the sample beat chop sound

but then it became impossible to clear samples

and there weren't budgets for it

other than acts like Ye and Jay

is Ye not one of his contemporaries?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

current status quo is trappity rap, rappers of "note" are too scared to hop on anything that falls outside, following The Dromedary God's example

>current status quo is trappity rap, rappers of "note" are too
>scared to hop on anything that falls outside, following The
>Dromedary God's example

wait a minute.
are you insinuating that rappers are making music that they themselves don't actually even like?

what would be the motivation for somebody to do that?

>what would be the motivation for somebody to do that?

They just hear that he's a genius without knowing why and follow along with what their respective heroes are saying. A lot of people like Questlove and will echo his sentiments without actually listening closely. Dilla's genius is very subtle and takes a while to marinate. If someone told me that Dilla's beats were straight up boring, I would understand but disagree.

Thankfully the bandwagon non-fandom of his is pretty much dead. Dunno who it currently is, but Dilla's real fans are all that's left at this point.

Esteemed author of the celebrated, double-platinum post: "Drake - Wu-Tang Forever".

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

people WHO like Questlove. Big slip up.

"If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be
Lyrically Talib Kweli
Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense
But I did 5 mill' - I ain't been rhyming like Common since"


My answer to your question would be that you can't assume that someone giving props to another artist automatically means they feel like they would fit together "style-wise".
In addition though, I'd agree that alot of it was lip-service.

People know that you can do no wrong by shouting out Dilla.
Name dropping him makes you automatically appear to "know real hip hop".

For those that were being honest but never bought a beat from him:
Maybe there were no beats that fit their vision for the project they were working on?
Maybe his style is not one that the artist feels works for them in general but always loves what he does with others.

perfect example:
http://m2.facebook.com/DJMaseo/photos/a.342782835756284.88538.341383312562903/833311683370061/?type=1&source=46&refid=17

I'm a big fan of Crucial and Dela. Maseo refers to Crucial as Chicago Legends. Would it really make sense for them to be doing music together though?
i think they could def. pull a song off by the way but that's just me being a fan again! I don't really believe it's needed.)

To your other point though, Maseo could just be paying lip service to Crucial because he was in Chicago and he knows that he can't go wrong with Chicago people by bigging up one of their legendary acts.

anyway, that's my take

good post

peace
HIM
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it must have been fake or else he would have made music like John Coltrane


that's what i'm getting from the OP

_________
steamrollin'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2IpZb3osxY

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

.

_________
steamrollin'

Santana in the Blue Note documentary from 10-15 years ago

he was talking about living in San Francisco and how you would hear all types of music being played out of windows in the early/mid 60's, specifically mentioning Trane and, i think, Wayne Shorter

the only Santana work i'm familiar with is Abraxas, did not realize the extent to which he covered Trane tunes and recorded jazz material

it's dope that he did that, but my general point was just that you don't have to be currently making music *like* a particular artist to shout him/her out, artists can be influential on other artists without having to influence their sound or style

_________
steamrollin'

but that was funny, regardless.

You are looking in the wrong Genre..

Dilla's influence and DNA is apparent much moreso in Hip Hop infused EDM stuff..

Kaytranda
Flume
James Blake
Flylo

etc...

imo Donuts and post "slum' dilla was influential in furthering the producer-as-artist genre. If you look in LA for example the beat scene really starts with dilla-esque stuff and evolves into dub step and eventually full EDM haven.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

i don't affiliate any of those acts sonically with jay dee.

Outside of Busta, Common, Roots and Stones Throw crew you should...

For a lot of those names I mentioned they not only name check Dilla but you hear the sonic connection in the tunes.. placement of drums, choice of instruments, arrangements etc..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

"revival" of the late 00's early 10's wasn't influenced by Dilla at all

Mayer Hawthorne and Amy Winehouse and all of their clones were in no way influenced by the more soul oriented work in Dilla's catalog

nope.

and no pop acts or indy rock bands would ever cite Dilla as an influence, nope...and even if they did it would have to be readily apparent in their music that he's an influence, that way we can have it both ways and say either he's 1) not influential or 2) people just bite him wholesale

blah, blah, blah....cats really think Dilla didn't influence a wide variety of musicians and music fans, LOL...sad.

_________
steamrollin'

well Mayer much more than Amy is literally in the Dilla cross hairs...

Detroit DJ that just "happens" upon some soul revival stuff...

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

_________
steamrollin'

but james Blake is serious dilla influence. And we all know fly lo and artist like Daedalus and gaslamp think dilla is God.

_______________________________________

"...You didn't do the knowledge what the God was manifestin'..."

this fool bammer said, "no, i don't hear his influence on any of them". what a fucn idiot

Fucked up thing is..

He poses decent questions.. He just tries to back up his arguments with bullshit conjecture no facts and frequency/size of posts till everyone just leaves.. lol

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>Fucked up thing is..
>
>He poses decent questions.. He just tries to back up his
>arguments with bullshit conjecture no facts and frequency/size
>of posts till everyone just leaves.. lol

conjecture vs. opinion/perception of events.

my opinion/perception of events.

when i say something like "rap music experienced a white flight in the 00's resulting in diminishing returns", that's based on what i've seen in my life away from posting... i don't need a pew poll.

the difference between you and me or at least why we're always on opposing ends of the spectrum is you tread the line of status quo.

i don't let other people tell me how the world works.
especially when they tell me things like up is down.

but we always keep it cordial and respectfully disagree.
i appreciate your responses to what i post.

Thing is...

This IS what I do.. everyday.. I am in the music industry..

and I certainly don't know everything because no one does..

Major label A could spend 100k on an artist and Major label B could spend 100k on an artist and the outcome will always be different.

However..

There is enough Data collected that can actually answer some of the questions you pose. You however would rather your opinion trump actual numbers. So anyone who attempts to make a point based on fact useless because you view your opinion as the fact..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

i don't mean it personally.

i didn't say they weren't influenced by him.
i said i don't group them sonically.

that post-dilla (© howisya) shit isn't even rap to me.

mid-00's waajeed, black milk, etc. are more like jay dee imo.

.

Also, as good as it was, did Donuts really need to get released 4 different times in the last 8 years? Would it have seen any type of re-release outside of the 45 box set if he hadn't passed?

After all these years, mainstream lip-service and Donuts Fans might've only lined PBW's pockets. I'm not sure how many of them really understood his place in the beatmaker/producer realm.

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

i have said for years that "donuts" is actually amongst the worst work of his career.

_________
steamrollin'

seems a bit harsh.

not really

_________
steamrollin'

I wasn't there when it dropped, either. But still, yea

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

at the time dilla was associated with a lot of deep crate diggers and folks who understand and enjoy ill and original sample flips

the record was never intended for top-40 focused DJ's whose main concern is getting 16-22 year olds on the dance floor.

_________
steamrollin'

>at the time dilla was associated with a lot of deep crate
>diggers and folks who understand and enjoy ill and original
>sample flips
>
>the record was never intended for top-40 focused DJ's whose
>main concern is getting 16-22 year olds on the dance floor.

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

i mean, sure...coming from *me* that's an insult but i understand there is talent, skill and hard work involved in playing music for the pop/mainstream "urban" crowd

i don't for one second think that Rtistic has gotten where he's gotten by anything but working hard and honing his craft

_________
steamrollin'

Stones Throw re-released Donuts as many times as they did left a very sour, opportunistic taste in my mouth and—combined with the fact that I don't have much interest in their new signees—I really haven't been messing with them at all in recent years.

back on topic, tho, I agree with HIM that just because an artist digs another's style doesn't necessarily mean the two would work well together. I would assume that's the case for a small number of people who gave him props. also, shouting out Dilla over a Black Milk joint (while cool for exposing lesser-known talent) still would smack of "well, this is the best I could do" and would actually be doing a bit of a disservice to said producer. just my opinion.

and re-released

i guess the only legit thing would be to lay in our darkened rooms clutching to our secret scroll first pressing of Donuts while ruminating on how superior we are in our knowledge to all of the mere followers who only bought Donuts bc the internet told them to

Meanwhile Ma Dukes is cashing Stones Throw checks and y'all sound like bitches

_________
steamrollin'

the 45 box set was a dope idea. the rest seem like hipster cash grabs--Stones Throw's bread n' butter lately.
your 'first pressing fan boy' argument could work for anyone mad at Ruff Draft, but there was no air of exclusivity to Donuts.

lolol

sounds like bullshit to me

what reissues fit this criteria?

_________
steamrollin'

I'd give a side eye to any album that's been released this many times in less than ten years I know you'd never question anything a label that releases Dilla and Madlib music does, so I guess it's not much of a discussion to have

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

i don't eff w/ the vast majority of stuff STR puts out in 2014, not even the cats lots of y'all like like that old Funk dude, whatshisface...

what i do eff with is STR satisfying a demand with reissues and making what is one of the most important albums in music history (IMO, nobody has to agree with that statement, but to me it is truth) available regularly so that it's heard by a wide variety of folks and not just snooty "i had Jay Dee before you had Dilla" dudes

i seriously think lots of y'all would stop Ma Dukes from getting any money if it meant you could have Jay Dee all to your selves...

which is way more bizarre than any Dilla stanning that's ever occured in history

also, i am SO HAPPY i got a copy of Donuts on tape, still haven't taken the wrapping off of it either.

_________
steamrollin'

>i don't eff w/ the vast majority of stuff STR puts out in
>2014, not even the cats lots of y'all like like that old Funk
>dude, whatshisface...
>

you mean Dam Funk?


>what i do eff with is STR satisfying a demand with reissues
>and making what is one of the most important albums in music
>history (IMO, nobody has to agree with that statement, but to
>me it is truth) available regularly so that it's heard by a
>wide variety of folks and not just snooty "i had Jay Dee
>before you had Dilla" dudes
>

what makes you think it's demand?
you appear to have a lot more faith in the music industry than you should because it's never been a hard album to find
if it were demand, it wouldn't be released with increasing price tags and unnecessary add-ons
if you want it to be available for the sake of the fans hearing it, you don't do that by going wild with things that price it out of the average person's interest range
sorry dude, they're taking people for a ride with this shit
also, "to me it's the truth" is an invalid statement; either it's the truth or it isn't, and in this case Donuts isn't really an important album like that in the overall course and history of music

>i seriously think lots of y'all would stop Ma Dukes from
>getting any money if it meant you could have Jay Dee all to
>your selves...
>

not sure how taking exception to an album being less than a decade old being reissued ad nauseum equates to that, but if that's how you process it then fine


>which is way more bizarre than any Dilla stanning that's ever
>occured in history
>

I've seen a lot worse, and on this board, even if that were the case


>also, i am SO HAPPY i got a copy of Donuts on tape, still
>haven't taken the wrapping off of it either.

I heard the recording wasn't that great on the tape, but I haven't heard it myself
I'd seriously hope they had enough sense to master for tape

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

>>i don't eff w/ the vast majority of stuff STR puts out in
>>2014, not even the cats lots of y'all like like that old
>Funk
>>dude, whatshisface...
>>
>
>you mean Dam Funk?

yeah
>
>>what i do eff with is STR satisfying a demand with reissues
>>and making what is one of the most important albums in music
>>history (IMO, nobody has to agree with that statement, but
>to
>>me it is truth) available regularly so that it's heard by a
>>wide variety of folks and not just snooty "i had Jay Dee
>>before you had Dilla" dudes
>>
>
>what makes you think it's demand?

bc i don't think ST & their distro press up albums for fun

>you appear to have a lot more faith in the music industry than
>you should because it's never been a hard album to find

not sure how that's relevant, it's a record that seems to have gained steam as a cult favorite in the years after his death

sure...i copped it on release day but that doesn't mean folks don't discover it or you have a lot of fans of the record that find it important enough to rebuy on various formats


>if it were demand, it wouldn't be released with increasing
>price tags and unnecessary add-ons

???

the 45 box?

that's kinda a fetish item i agree but if folks that can buy it want it what's the issue?

>if you want it to be available for the sake of the fans
>hearing it, you don't do that by going wild with things that
>price it out of the average person's interest range

most of the reiisues are just regular reissues dude, the CD is cheap, the tape is $10, vinyl doesn't exceed $20

like you said it's not rare in and of itself, the price for the album is reasonably you're quibling over one 45 box?

>sorry dude, they're taking people for a ride with this shit
>also, "to me it's the truth" is an invalid statement; either
>it's the truth or it isn't, and in this case Donuts isn't
>really an important album like that in the overall course and
>history of music

lol, it's the most important album in *my* life as to what dan be done w/ this culture, hate me now dawg haha

>>i seriously think lots of y'all would stop Ma Dukes from
>>getting any money if it meant you could have Jay Dee all to
>>your selves...
>>
>
>not sure how taking exception to an album being less than a
>decade old being reissued ad nauseum equates to that, but if
>that's how you process it then fine
>
>
>>which is way more bizarre than any Dilla stanning that's
>ever
>>occured in history
>>
>
>I've seen a lot worse, and on this board, even if that were
>the case
>
>
>>also, i am SO HAPPY i got a copy of Donuts on tape, still
>>haven't taken the wrapping off of it either.
>
>I heard the recording wasn't that great on the tape, but I
>haven't heard it myself
>I'd seriously hope they had enough sense to master for tape

doesn't even bother me, i got a good CD copy (i prefer CD bc playing the whole thing w/ no breaks is how i know it) like i said I haven't even unwrapped the tape, won't front it's a fetish item but that $10 is nothing

_________
steamrollin'

http://www.stonesthrow.com/news/2011/05/j-dilla-donuts-vinyl-new-sleeve

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

fail to see how this is in any way offensive to anyone

in fact, they did this so they could make this classic album available to an even wider audience...

wait...is that the problem you guys are having?

too many unworthies listening to Donuts?

_________
steamrollin'

I don't know if hipsters shop at Urban Outfitters, but yeah.

J Dilla - Donuts (Urban Outfitters Edition)

That's funny to me.

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

>J Dilla - Donuts (Urban Outfitters Edition)
>
>That's funny to me.


let me ask you a question though...

would you prefer that people that "don't get" Dilla like you do just not listen to him or talk about him?

_________
steamrollin'

I'm not going down that road.

Not with you, at least.

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

>i guess the only legit thing would be to lay in our darkened
>rooms clutching to our secret scroll first pressing of Donuts
>while ruminating on how superior we are in our knowledge to
>all of the mere followers who only bought Donuts bc the
>internet told them to

SMH

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

that the unwashed non-hip-hop masses don't have the proper perspective on Dilla's greatness and therefore Stones Throw should not be able to reissue Donuts as consumer demand dictates?

and in this case it actually legit IS one of the best releases in their catalogue...it's not like ECM where 1000's of good records were made possible because folks went nuts for the Koln Concert

i really fail to see what the beef is

do you not think PBW is properly compensating the estate or something?

_________
steamrollin'

http://www.okayplayer.com/news/flying-lotus-track-by-track-breakdown-youre-dead.html

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you can't understand it with an explanation

Such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NaJBapnYtw

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If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

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http://www.okayplayer.com/news/common-on-j-dilla-kanye-west-no-id-interview-video.html

I think somebody at OkayPlayer must've heard you

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If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation