5. "Madvillain pretty confortably" In response to Reply # 0
I thought Supreme Clientele had inconsistent production. There were some borderline amateurish beats on that one, but it's a classic nonetheless.
Madvillainy was brilliant front to back and never let up on the production side. The skits felt like part of the story as well, whereas SC had some unnecessary ones that bog down the album.
I loved Ghost on SC, but Madvillainy is just a masterpiece, man.
15. "That was pretty harsh, but we're comparing them to friggin Madlib" In response to Reply # 9
The beats that I meant were ones like:
Nutmeg - This is a fine beat, but it's about as forgettable as it gets along with the boring pitching as the only real changeup.
Apollo Kids - I get it, I mean, the whole comic book superhero sounding thing, but this is again another instance of the chops showing its seams and it just doesn't have the finesse that a master producer would have made.
Stroke of Death - It took me a looooong time to understand this one, but I can see it now. It isn't something I'll play regularly since it's still pretty unpleasant to listen to--which I think is what he was going for--but I "see it" now.
We Made It - Again, a fine beat by all means, but just not something that blows me away or anything.
The issue here is that I feel like I'm being mega-critical over an album which is amazing front to back, but Madvillain to me is one of those once-in-a-decade albums where two geniuses successfully caught lightning in a bottle. And Supreme Clientele is every bit the classic that it has always hailed to have been, but it's not quite Madvillain good simply because of the inconsistency in its production as well as the bogged down skits.
11. "Madvillainy, but mostly because of the sequencing" In response to Reply # 0
there isn't a hair out of place on that record, it's amazing that two people as unusually loose as Lib and Doom made an album as concise as this one
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
23. "Madvillainy has been ahead of SC on quite a few polls" In response to Reply # 17
that rate best albums of the 2ooo's, so this doesn't qualify for the 'only on okp' meme in the slightest now before you say how you don't give a fuck about a list, keep in mind that your statement entails not only that the sentiment is incorrect but that it's also not a really popular way of looking at things (which is wildly off base)
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
24. " I had no idea...I havent read many of those lists" In response to Reply # 23 Sat Aug-16-14 08:54 PM by guru0509
>that rate best albums of the 2ooo's, so this doesn't qualify >for the 'only on okp' meme in the slightest
>now before you say how you don't give a fuck about a list, >keep in mind that your statement entails not only that the >sentiment is incorrect but that it's also not a really popular >way of looking at things (which is wildly off base)
listened to madvillainy when it came out in 04, and was bored halfway through
edit, googled
albums released in the same year that i think are better..
masta ace - long hot summer cam purple haze dead prez rbg delasoul grind date ti - urban legend gift of gab - rocketship goin up kanye college dropout gfk- pretty toney masta killa - no said date mos -new danger nas- streets disciple the roots - tipping point
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
25. "RE: I had no idea...I havent read many of those lists" In response to Reply # 24
>listened to madvillainy when it came out in 04, and was bored >halfway through
>masta ace - long hot summer >cam purple haze >dead prez rbg >delasoul grind date >ti - urban legend >gift of gab - rocketship goin up >kanye college dropout >gfk- pretty toney >masta killa - no said date >mos -new danger >nas- streets disciple >the roots - tipping point
I recommend that you give MV another try. You listed some decent albums, but MV would be top of my list out of those albums.
I didn't understand madvillain at first. Sounded like noise with a lazy monotone guru-esque rapper.
Then it hit me. The way doom and the beat konducta compliment each other is on a level rarely reached in hip hop.
Please give it another chance. Get some kill kill herb, roll it up and sit back and listen. If the beats aren't your thing, listen to dooms wordplay. Just brilliant.
51. "RE: I had no idea...I havent read many of those lists" In response to Reply # 24
I thought it was just me. The album is solid but never understood the hype. There are plenty albums that year that are better and easier to listen to. And I did the knowledge on it...just don't feel MV like that or Doom.
29. "well shit, two of my favorites for both technique and enjoyment.." In response to Reply # 0
as in, maybe my top 2 for both.. if you threw The Ecstatic in there, my head would really be spinning.. two of my top 5 MCs, both at the absolute top of their game on the mic.. and i'd say Madvillainy probably has more consistent incredible beats.. but Supreme Clientele beats set a perfect backdrop.. and for my money, they're both perfect albums..
I'm gonna go with Supreme Clientele though... the ONLY reason i'm even going that route is because they fit in 2 skits that were around 3min. long (!) and i still play straight through without skipping.. that's some crazy execution, imo.. and i'm still not saying SC "wins", just what i'm using to answer the question posed..
I don't want to check the search but pretty sure this poll was done a year or 2 ago, maybe it was lost tho. carry on.. actually, it might have been madvillainy vs illmatic which yeah, nvm
33. "I know we did it for the "best of 00s" bracket" In response to Reply # 32
I think Supreme Clientele and Madvillainy were in the semi-finals in which SC won by a close margin and then went on to blowout The Blueprint in the finals.
and I didn't even think about it. SC was the choice for me.
Both are excellent. MV is the album that really got me into DOOM; I have to admit. Didn't know much about him before.
He's probably now in my top 5. Ghost is in my top 2, a lot of that has to do with SC.
Ghost is such a larger than life personality on SC. Stellar production on both. Going for different sonics on each album, but I might the mix on SC better. Needed something big and bold to match Ghost's energy, think production achieved that.
Lyrics, schemes, wordplay, stories for days on both.
Both fucking classic. Can listen to both, regularly, and do, and not get tired of either.
36. "Supreme Clientele.....it was the last classic of its era." In response to Reply # 0
The era where lyrics reigned supreme over everything in rap. Supreme Clientele is the end of that. I've even seen people argue that it's the last truly great Wutang release, solo or group. I tend to disagree with that because of OB4CL2 and Fishscale.
Madvillainy is the greatest underground (here, Stones Throw/Rhymesayers/Anticon/Def Jux) rap album period. MF Doom and Madlib were arguably at their creative apex in 2004. ---------------------------------------
Supreme Clientele as the" last hip-hop album of an imagined "when lyrics mattered" era, is questionable since you could argue that if such an era ever existed, it was already over. SC is well after the "shiny suits" came out.
Greatest "underground rap" album is a difficult one, on so many levels, and one could argue Operation Doomsday is better than MV. Plenty of people in this thread think so, and it's impact was arguably greater. Then there's Funcrusher Plus and The Cold Vein and Dr. Octagon and that's without even tackling the West Coast.
45. "Wutang Clan hadn't truly fallen off until 8 Diagrams...." In response to Reply # 42
up until that point the group was still very active together and solo. Also, the projects were mostly decent-to-strong. After 8 Diagrams, everyone seemed to lose a step except Ghostface. Raekwon regained a step with OB4CL2. GZA dropped a decent album with Pro Tools but nothing else. Method Man still was good with the group and with Redman but not so much solo.
48. "Grandmasters is probably his second best album" In response to Reply # 45
people always forget that one but there's nothing but heat on that record. It's definitely the most consistent as far as production goes, next to LS.
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
I looked at his discography and realized I had kinda put my foot in my mouth..at least a couple toes, cuz HIS last album was Ironman which was the GRAIL.
It was moreso that the Wu production had started slacking, so by then (speaking only for myself) I was kinda hesitant as to how the production was gonna come out.
SO revising my statement - in the stream of time Madvillainy won for me because I had no doubt what I was gonna get, but SC was a pleasant surprise...like not only is this not wack..it's DOPE.
47. "this is hard because they are more similar than it seems" In response to Reply # 0
I'd rather just split the minute difference and call it even. Each one does something the other doesn't and they both feel like epics. If Ghost had an album full of beats that were in the Charlie Brown vein, SC would've probably sounded a lot like Madvillainy.
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
Printer-friendly copy 
Email this topic to a friend
The Lesson
(36 votes)
(32 votes)
#/media/File:Firefly.png)
