A bit of a shameless plug as well, but we're pretty surprised at our results so far. (there's other regions to vote on, but this is the most intriguing)

http://massdebaters.net/blog/entertainment/hip-hop-bracketology-west/

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Shouldn't be a surprise. Pac never made an album as good as Cube's first two albums.

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Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

Not just Amerikkka and DC

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Death Certificate alone ethers most rappers' catalogs
but you add AMW, Kill At Will and the Predator to it and it's not even close.

the problem is how sharply Cube fell off after those albums, and that Pac was fairly consistent(ly inconsistent) in his career (when he was alive) and actually showed some real growth from 2Pacalpyse/Strictly/Me Against The World that is often understated (I don't think the REAL fandom really kicked in until the double album). he looked primed to take the mantle from Cube, but I don't think he even on his best album, matched Cube's best.

>Death Certificate alone ethers most rappers' catalogs
>but you add AMW, Kill At Will and the Predator to it and it's
>not even close.
>
>the problem is how sharply Cube fell off after those albums,
>and that Pac was fairly consistent(ly inconsistent) in his
>career (when he was alive) and actually showed some real
>growth from 2Pacalpyse/Strictly/Me Against The World that is
>often understated (I don't think the REAL fandom really kicked
>in until the double album). he looked primed to take the
>mantle from Cube, but I don't think he even on his best album,
>matched Cube's best.
>
His falloff is like DAMN! It started on album 4 and just got worse from there. Not sure how a guy so talented fell the fuck off like that.

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Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

because he was getting a little "trendy", and he really didn't need to do all of that.

In fact, Cube could have mailed it in with moderate updates of his "Death Certificate" self for the rest of his career and the reaction wouldn't have been so bad.

it ticked me off. Ice Cube didn't need to go "G-Funk", he had "Funk Squad" with Pooh, Jinx, and the Boogiemen. He definitely didn't need to go "clubbin". I think joining the bandwagon in that era is what sucked. and then the VOICE...

>it ticked me off. Ice Cube didn't need to go "G-Funk", he had
>"Funk Squad" with Pooh, Jinx, and the Boogiemen. He definitely
>didn't need to go "clubbin". I think joining the bandwagon in
>that era is what sucked. and then the VOICE...

I might be in a minority on this but I think Sir Jinx etc. productions were funky as fuck not to mention that they managed to capture the *spirit* of P-funk better than Dre's "Chronic"-style G-funk beats (not necessarily better than the funky beats on "Efilrofzaggin" though but that record is more along the line of the post-PE aesthetic that Ice Cube's early producers had).

Obviously, he couldn't have kept that sound when "all" Hip-Hop went more down-stripped/less dense as the 90's progressed for obvious reasons (=sample-laws) so I can understand why he took that route but it's still not as dope to me and it felt contrived because it was so trendy at the time...

As for the subject of this thread, I don't like 2pac's voice, flow and while I have no business commention on the lyrical matters of his "emotionally resonant" "ghetto-ballads", I do feel I'm allowed to comment on their general vibe and that is the Hip-Hop equivalent to the Scorpions power-ballad:it's "lighters in the air"-Hip-Hop and while those overblown tunes had a massive impact on the vibe of certain Hip-Hop tunes (see several songs by the biggest stars like Eminem, Kanye, Jay-z and Nas as proof), that vibe has nothing to do with what I dig about Hip-hop which is something else (see: Radio, Criminal Minded, Strictly business, Daily Operation, Runaway Slave, Bizarre ride, Enter the Wu-tang and you'll get my vibe(s) and core aesthetics...)

Ice Cube all day regardless of how wack he became...

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more modern than Cube's. Hell, his "Same song" flow STILL goes hard. Cube's flow started sounding a bit dated and choppy around 96-98 and it still does.

But yeah, album wise, easily Cube.

Singles....Cube had some great ones, but Pac had more bases covered, and had bigger commercial singles.

Main issue is that Cube didn't die in 94-96, and had the chance to fall off...and he's STILL making music that most folks will laugh at. I mean, y'all saw that Bigfoot shit right?? Even the cinematographer told me he had to hold in the laughter when he was working on it.

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>I mean, y'all saw that Bigfoot shit
>right?? Even the cinematographer told me he had to hold in the
>laughter when he was working on it.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7lOmfQPHN0

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Rollin�Maybe the biggest once respected/greatest artist to have the biggest fall off ever�just wish cat would not do music anymore�just sorry�.

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

Same here. He just needs to stop. Wonder who's in his circle at this point? he has to be surrounded by yes men to allow this BS to see the light of day.

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Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

He doesn't HAVE to do this.

I agree with the rest of the heads hear.

Cube SHOULD be at half way on the musical level NaS is this late in the game

yeah, I was pretty much done with Cube after the first Westside Connection album.

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Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

is one of those, as a fan, that really hurts to watch.

I mean, Nas got ROASTED. Cube really doesn't. Even though he has more reason to have the reception Nas does in general. Nas at least made LIFE IS GOOD and is out here looking like a rap vampire in 2014.

Cube SHOULD have one of those albums in him, but he's making this gimmicky BULLSHIT that's beneath him. He doesn't even need to make Death Certificate Part II. But I have no reason not to believe that Cube can't make some Grown Man Rap with some bite, if people that don't have his iconic status do. Were Pac alive I think even he could have done it at this stage.

it's like Cube's whole stardom is based on him being in NWA. but sometimes I wonder if there will be a time where people are like "Ice Cube? NWA? What's that?"

>is one of those, as a fan, that really hurts to watch.
>
>I mean, Nas got ROASTED. Cube really doesn't. Even though he
>has more reason to have the reception Nas does in general. Nas
>at least made LIFE IS GOOD and is out here looking like a rap
>vampire in 2014.

I never thought of this, but it's so true. Cube's first 3 albums (maybe 4) are all great, a couple being legitimately in the discussion for top 10 ever. Since then he's largely just been on the gimmicky bullshit he used to make fun of earlier in his career. Being that he makes tons of money in movies, why does he feel so compelled to continue down that path? Furthermore, it's not like he's selling anyway so it's almost not even worth it. I just don't get it. Meanwhile Nas is getting leveled since 1995 and like you said, he's 40+ and dropped Life is Good which is not only an excellent album, but lyrically he's still spitting FLAMES...plus he's had several really good albums in between.


>Cube SHOULD have one of those albums in him, but he's making
>this gimmicky BULLSHIT that's beneath him. He doesn't even
>need to make Death Certificate Part II. But I have no reason
>not to believe that Cube can't make some Grown Man Rap with
>some bite, if people that don't have his iconic status do.
>Were Pac alive I think even he could have done it at this
>stage.

I don't think there's any doubt that Pac would've been able to age gracefully. The only "gimmicky" kind of stuff he did was with Death Row, trying too hard to go the "gangsta" route. If the rumors were true, and he wanted to ditch Death Row and go out on his own, I have no reason not to believe he would've scaled that whole "thug" thing back and done a lot of "Keep Your Head Up"/"Dear Mama"/political stuff later in his career and aged gracefully.


>it's like Cube's whole stardom is based on him being in NWA.
>but sometimes I wonder if there will be a time where people
>are like "Ice Cube? NWA? What's that?"

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Thinking, why can't Ice Cube make an album like this? That was 2002. He's been gone.

I saw him on tour with LL, PE, and De La last year....those 3 acts all stuck to their best, most classic material for the great majority of their sets. Cube's up there doing "You Can Do It" and "We Be Clubbin" and Westside Connection joints.

Q-bert was my favorite because it had the 3D aspect.

Pac-man was just flat to me.

box
___
Just looking out of the window
Watching the asphalt grow
Thinking how it all looks hand-me-down

_________________

Although pac blatantly studied cube he had also surpassed him.Up to strictly for my niggaz most of pac's hard hitting stuff was just cube mimicry. It wasn't until me against the world that he really came into his own. But by then he had created a street poetry that was indelible and cube's observations were getting stale.

Most of ice cube's early stuff seems really juvenile now and a lot of the later stuff was cube doing chuck d. Death certificate was his most fully realized album, predator and lethal injection don't really compare.

I'd rather listen to the thuglife orpac/outlawz album than westside connection any day. And give me any posthumous pac release over any post lethal injection release.

Pac was huge but Cube was the king of LA...

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

Cube was L.A. born and raised, and felt more like one of us. Pac was way hotter in 95-96, but Cube wasn't far off, coming off of It was a good day, Bop gun, What can I do, putting out Mack 10, being on West up, Bow down (which was HUGE for us), You know how we do it, Friday the movie and song.....yeah. It was actually a much closer call than people think.

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I'm surprised but cant be mad at it. If you're interested in the other regions we got TI vs Face in the South

http://massdebaters.net/blog/entertainment/hip-hop-bracketology-south-round2/

and Lupe vs Em in the Midwest. I assume that will be a rout.

http://massdebaters.net/blog/entertainment/hip-hop-bracketology-midwest-round2/

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and im willing to make the argument that hes 1 of the most influential artists in American pop culture of all time.

argued it before in bars & barber shops & convinced folks so please dont test me


does it really matter?

vote for bin: http://tinyurl.com/qz8zep5

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i'm seeing something said/written/etc.. about him. someone tells anecdotal story bout meeting him, or someone proclaims to be the new pac, etc...

Big fan of both them cats, but I don't find myself going back to Cube's albums like I do Pac's

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if you consider his crappy albums (and I'm not really counting the Pac albums that got released after he died) he edges it out
but if Cube stopped at Lethal Injection it'd be a no contest

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I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

pac never made an album as good as cube's best - and while ice cube certainly fell off, so did pac.

I agree that Cube got him beat but where did Pac fall off? One of his best albums dropped a couple of months after his death. I'll admit that All Eyez On Me is pretty forgettable but nowhere near as bad as Cube's output post Westside Connection's first LP.

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Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob