1. "Top 2o I'd say without thinking hard" In response to Reply # 0
and when I say that he's outside of the top technical guys, I mean that he's not that far behind them really he's never been the weak point on any of his albums; the lyricism and technical skill is always sharp and intact
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
5. "He's a top 10 MC, but not my favorite rapper" In response to Reply # 0
He's really sound, and his wordplay is phenomenal. However, he's not the most charismatic rapper out there. He's also smarter than most his listeners, and raps at a higher level than 90% of his peers. And to be honest, most people aren't listening to understand how creative his lyrics are. So I understand why he doesn't have the mass appeal, or why he never will.
You're such pests...now, what is it you want? In your depths of your ignorance, what is it you want? Well, whatever it is you want, I can't deliver because I just don't see it. - Orson Welles
11. "RE: he's kinda the definitive preachy nerd guy that talks down to his au..." In response to Reply # 9 Thu Jul-31-14 09:12 PM by spidey
So you think he should have dumbed it down? Brother does him, and I never got the sense that he was talking down to people. Long live the art of MC'n and what are you saying about the audience? I call BS...
>So you think he should have dumbed it down? Brother does >him, and I never got the sense that he was talking down to >people. Long live the art of MC'n and what are you saying >about the audience? I call BS...
I don't think he talks down to the audience, but just talks over the most rap listeners ears. He could dumb it down, but then he wouldn't be the MC that he is. It works for him, but it isn't that path to fame and riches. Or record sales. Which kinda sucks for me, because I know he's a refined taste, and not something that will be able to be tolerated by most people.
You're such pests...now, what is it you want? In your depths of your ignorance, what is it you want? Well, whatever it is you want, I can't deliver because I just don't see it. - Orson Welles
23. "RE: It's okay." In response to Reply # 15 Mon Aug-04-14 12:46 AM by spidey
And I would say it's about elevation, just like a lot of the Roots ish, they always look to elevate what is defined as Hip Hop (with mixed results imo), but to me, this mindset is where Live seems to come from….Elevation of the art. Is there not a lot to be said for an artist that is still eating off of Hip Hop and still is doing it on his own terms? Brother has been in the game for a long time, and best believe he knows he is not going to get mainstream love….Call it what you will, but I don't think at this stage in his career he is motivated by "the fame and riches"…brother is eating, and doing his art how he wants, gotta respect it…
26. "but the Roots do interesting things musically" In response to Reply # 23
what people are trying to tell you is that we appreciate the effort & recognize the skill but his music is bland & that doesn't balance out his sanctimony enough to put him near the top of any lists
I'm not arguing that he needs to change his style to suit the masses, just lamenting that the general populace will never listen to what he has to say.
For instance, I think "School's In" is one of the dopest songs ever. It was also one of the first songs he ever put out. It's essentially a primer on how a hip hop fan should listen to the music, and how to listen and understand deeper. However, he always comes from that perspective that he has taught his fans how to listen deeper, so now it's time for the upper level wordplay and lyricism. Which I enjoy, but I also know that will remover his accessibility from most.
I don't want him to change at all. I appreciate the guy and give him props whenever I can. I just want more people to enjoy the wizardry this guy puts on the mic.
You're such pests...now, what is it you want? In your depths of your ignorance, what is it you want? Well, whatever it is you want, I can't deliver because I just don't see it. - Orson Welles
36. "first video that comes up when you google his name" In response to Reply # 30 Mon Aug-04-14 12:11 PM by CalvinButts
the recent song produced by Oddisee, Money Matters
it's a good song
but towards the end of the 1st verse and for really the whole 2nd verse he's talking down to folks, telling them how they are mismanaging their money and need to do a better job of it
i understand rappers talking down to their audience is essentially in the job description, but sometimes, as a working person myself who has trouble saving money due to the cost of living vs. what i make, i'd rather not hear some rapper telling me i'm not doing it right
if i wanna blow my cash on a stack of vinyl b/c it makes my life better, who the &^%* is he to tell me i should bank it instead?
the worst part (lol) is he's presenting it as though he's trying to educate and help the masses, speaking to his peers on equal terms, but he's giving instructions to other grown men on how to live, we're grown, we know this shit, life is not a rap song homie.
(awaits "aw you took it personally, stop being a hit dog baby and save more money or shut up" response)
8. "De La Soul-level wordplay. VERY questionable ear for beats." In response to Reply # 0
I suppose the first part would make him Top 10, but the latter makes him not mentioned at all.
It doesn't feel right to rank a guy who only made ~15 songs I REALLY like and would still consider listening to. Even 15 might be a stretch at this point.
I'm not digging rap that requires me to dismiss the beat. Maybe that'll change in the future, but I doubt it.
Big ups to J-Live for all those crazy records though.
10. "he's only had one album with lackluster beats on it though" In response to Reply # 8
he picks great music usually, that LP he put out with cookie cutter beats was him trying to do everything himself
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
21. "I can't agree and here's why" In response to Reply # 17
he's a teacher and he approaches his craft like he's a student of it the way he engages a beat is different than most other emcees because instead of just rapping over it, he tends rap with, under, and through it and he makes it look like he isn't really doing anything impressive listen to All of the Above and you'll see the different paths he takes within a song, and the music he raps to on that record is really unorthodox rhythmically
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
22. "RE: I can't agree and here's why" In response to Reply # 21
…well said, cat is just that nice….what I am getting from this post, which is sad, is people simply not appreciating grown up topics/concepts…as a an educated brother, I appreciate that level of thought put into the art, while still keeping it true school….to each their own, but to call his ish boring, I just don't see where that comes from. Case in point, grown folks can't appreciate stuff like this? The message, the depth…come on y'all…
Isn't this where we all thought the art of Hip Hop could evolve too? Slick ish with a message….Who in the Hip Hop world is talking about such topics, in this case questioning the educational system...
28. "do you really think being a sanctimonious snob is going to..." In response to Reply # 22
help your case?
i mean jesus christ dude
just say "the peasants do not understand J Live & my superior intellect, 7 & 7/16ths ounces of brain and maturity level" and save yourself the keystrokes
33. "RE: do you really think being a sanctimonious snob is going to..." In response to Reply # 28 Mon Aug-04-14 11:56 AM by spidey
No case to be made it's all conversation...But let me see if I have this right...I am a sanctimonious snob because I see value/talent and am entertained by an artist who truly respects his craft, is schooled (both streetwise and in the traditional sense), is creative, speaks upon social issues...What happened to Hip Hop??? Pass the Grey Poupon son, oh, and once this J-Live track is done, hook up that Sean PPPPPPP ish....
37. "RE: you're one of the least self-aware "Educated Brothas" on here yo" In response to Reply # 34
...so now it's personal? I guess the culture pointed me in a different direction than it did you....Alright man, Peace and continue to ELEVATE and be the best person you can be...
38. "it's not personal, it's a rap music discussion, shit is never personal" In response to Reply # 37 Mon Aug-04-14 12:39 PM by CalvinButts
but you are above throwing shots at the intelligence and maturity level of *any* one who dare be critical of Justice Live
you don't say specific names, or be direct, you choose the passive agressive route of a blanket statement questioning ppl's intelligence and maturity because they don't like one of your favorite rappers and are able to articulate the reasons why, then do the BS "woe is the culture" thing when half the damn people you're taking passive agressive shots at spend their hard earned money on plenty of artists who "elevate" and do good things in the genre...this is just one rapper, taking an issue w/ him and his pretentiousness is not an invalid opinion to have no matter if you feel like you can write off everyone who does so as improperly understanding the culture you apparently are the master key holder of.
which is exactly why i said you are not very self-aware, or either you are being willfully obtuse b/c you think you have moral and intellectual high ground
you can laugh this off and take shots at where "the culture" led me and how you are one of the only true understanders and adherents of the culture, all you want, but don't expect folks not to call you out on it when you're being a sanctimonious pretentious snob.
41. "...coming at me..." In response to Reply # 38
labeling me is personal...Live is not everyones flavor, and I have already stated that I felt Live's new LP was weak overall, so this idea that he is beyond reproach by me is faulty. I would expect heads to expect more, really listen to what brothers are saying, attention to detail. I would ask you to take a step back and look at the culture, the art of the MC and where is stands right now. How do you feel about where the art of MC'n is? I am humble enough to evaluate my words, thoughts, but won't apologize for bigging up artists that seek to elevate the art form by adding a certain level of intelligence to the game. Never claimed to be some all knowing guru of Hip Hop, but what I can say is that I grew up in the Mecca and have no problem being labeled an older head who laments where the art has digressed too. Anyway, continue to enjoy what you enjoy and I appreciate the conversation....
43. "can you cite some specific examples of him doing this?" In response to Reply # 21 Wed Mar-04-15 09:23 PM by bearfield
>the way he engages a beat is different than most other emcees >because instead of just rapping over it, he tends rap with, >under, and through it and he makes it look like he isn't >really doing anything impressive >listen to All of the Above and you'll see the different paths >he takes within a song, and the music he raps to on that >record is really unorthodox rhythmically
i just skimmed through the album and aside from the intro, like this anna, and stir of echoes what i'm mostly hearing is standard eighth note rhythms interspersed with the occasional pause to break up the flow
24. "What's boring about A Charmed Life?" In response to Reply # 20
The Best Part? Like This Anna? Practice?
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
31. "RE: Lack of ignorance = boring" In response to Reply # 25
Right on...this is where the music is as a whole...sad really, now leave me alone peasants and let me get on with my discussion at Cambridge on nuclear physics...
44. ""Boring" is a stretch but I see your point" In response to Reply # 20
I think both are probably missing a certain charisma that creates a bigger/more passionate fanbase.
I think the second half of the 00s were when some Best Part/All of the Above fans started checking for his projects less. He probably could've used a good A&R or Exec producer to steer his music at that point. His new stuff sounds quite good though.
32. "Kinda feel a lot of you are conflating your knowledge of his past profes..." In response to Reply # 0
with your stance on the quality of his music when giving your overall summary of him.
I'm just noticing cats mentioning how didactic he is, how he is allegedly "talking down" to listeners, etc., and I can't help but wonder if any of those opinions are partially informed by the well-known fact that in the beginning of his career, he was also a schoolteacher.
I don't get any kind of preachiness or sanctimonious vibe from the man's music. If we're going to step into that arena at all, I can only say that it's evident that he doesn't DUMB down for the music – which isn't to say that he is on some brainiac/genius shit, but J has never come across as a CARTOON CHARACTER, just a realistic human being who is also ridiculously skilled at rapping.
If anything has hurt him, I think it's his sometimes questionable beats. But even in saying that, I don't agree that he has only made 15 listenable songs throughout his career.
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