------------------------------------------- What do you think of "Keep Watch"?
"I hate it. I hate it. I don’t hate shit, but I hate that fuckin’ record. It ain’t the gunpowder that my brothers are spitting; it’s the production. And I ain’t shitting on the producer because he’s one of our soldiers. But if it ain’t where it need to be… It’s 20 years later. We talkin 'bout a whole new generation is sitting here representin' and making fiery shit and you telling me that we comin out with some mediocre shit? That ain’t part of our plan."
Do you think part of it is the expectations put upon the group after 20 years?
"We created something that wound up being so big, it has to sit on a certain kind of podium. It has to be sitting up there shining. It can’t be sitting up there with bullet holes and all this bullshit on it. I love my fans. I would never give them something that I feel is not a hit or a win. We made decisions together when it came to making great music. Today, I don’t know where RZA’s mind is at. I don’t know if he looks at himself as being a top producer. But you’re not the top producer no more. You’re definitely one of the best, but you’re not one of the best today.
We said with this album right here, let’s go use some of the relationships with the producers and artists that we know and let’s make something that the fans can be like, "Goddamn." You don’t go out there and put somebody on the fucking record that nobody never heard of. That’s an insult to us. I’m just sitting back in the bleachers just watching shit. There’s no animosity with me and my brothers. My issue is with fuckin’ management. And whoever sits in that chair, RZA and Devine, that’s they shit that they have to deal with. You’re not going to bury my career with your dumb moves." ----------------------------------------------
45. "Yea I'm siding with Rza/Wu on this one." In response to Reply # 22
Raekwon seems to be holding some type of strange, juvenile grudge from what we've been given from the parties involved. That's just the way I'm reading it, at least.
3. "this nigga made Immobilarity, he needs to slow down w/the no name shit" In response to Reply # 0 Thu Apr-17-14 02:11 PM by Garhart Poppwell
he does have points though, but let's not act like he's never done it before (and I mean Rae specifically)
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
4. "he's the dude 'living in apartments' i referred to in the other thread" In response to Reply # 0
how is this good for anyone involved? at this point the general public is probably going to say meh to new Wu material REGARDLESS he needs to stfu and let Rza at least try to trick some hipsters into buying into his retirement fund
6. "Thats the problem, no money to be made in record sales" In response to Reply # 4
Even if they sold that one record for five million dollars how much money do you think is going to get spread across a 9 man music group, rappers a that?
The math works out great for Rza who's producer/exec producer/manager/rapper. But not for everyone else.
The Wu still tour pretty heavily and do well selling tickets. They need an album to re-invigorate their base (and as a consequence bring in new fans) and play larger venues and give opportunities to members to be able to tour solo. Only a solid Wu album can give them that.
9. "allegedly guys like rae and ghost barely show up for promotional events" In response to Reply # 6
rza basically had to beg some of these cats to contribute to the new album(s) that may be because they not fucking with the direction of the music but still you need to be involved some how just seems like a bunch of old niggas complaining
and again, even if the new material is straight up wack what good does it do to run to the media to tell everybody that? push come to shove rza could just shelve the shit and go back to movies while rae will be stuck supplying wack verses to freddie gibbs mixtapes or who ever couldn't get scarface on their album
15. "You kind of forget Rae and particularly Ghost" In response to Reply # 9
>push come to shove rza could just shelve the shit and go back >to movies while rae will be stuck supplying wack verses to >freddie gibbs mixtapes or who ever couldn't get scarface on >their album
Have had decent post-Wu careers.
Rae sucked for a minute, but since Cuban Linx II he's been on fire: that victory lap tour sold out.
And Ghost had a great run in the '00s.
Out of all the members in the Wu currently, they need the Rza and the Wu-Tang Clan brand the least.
> >>Rae sucked for a minute, but since Cuban Linx II he's been >on >>fire: that victory lap tour sold out. >> > >Which makes his arguments against putting out weak shit even >more compelling. He's speaking from experience here.
7. "STOP FIGHTING! (*cries*)" In response to Reply # 0
Not enough time to address everything, but really my only fear with a new Wu album is on the production side if RZA is leading the charge. Doesn't mean they need a hodge-podge album of the HOTTEST producers in an attempt appeal to the youths, but RZA isn't that dude anymore to be handling everything like back in the day.
__ I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!
Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno
Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)
8. "lol @ I would never want to give my fans anything other than the best" In response to Reply # 0
This dude kinda redeemed himself after a decade of missteps and now wants to publicly throw his brother under the bus. RZA is the reason anyone cares about this guy. Not too many people are checking for a solo Rae able either. The Wu just need not make this album. It sounds like a disaster at this point.
****************************************** Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks
40. "That doesn't mean RZA knows what's hot in 2014 tho" In response to Reply # 8
>RZA is the reason anyone cares about this guy. >
I suppose he could go along with whatever RZA says based on what he did in 1994 - 1999, but 2005 is much more of an indicator of what he's capable of now... and 8 Diagrams ain't making the best case.
52. "Were MikeWillMadeIt and DJ Mustard on OBFCL 2?" In response to Reply # 50 Fri Apr-18-14 08:57 AM by Clarence Clarke
Shaolin Vs Wu-Tang? Is Rae known for rocking over those kinds of beats?
There are other producers doing it right now than those cats who could provide some heat for the Wu (Alchemist, Oh No!, etc) He could be referring to what's hot now in the underground scene (especially since that's mainly who he's been working with).
59. "OBFCL 2 is a bit overrated" In response to Reply # 52
and I understand why. The dude was dropping turds prior to so it was good to see Rae release a good LP. He said whats hot and I gave you whats hot. Yes there are plenty of good producers that could contribute to the project but then its not a Wu album. Leave the Wu projects alone and focus on solo ventures. Throwing his brother under the bus in public is never a good look.
****************************************** Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks
17. "Rza should executive produce" In response to Reply # 0
He should do MAYBE 3 tracks on the album and farm the rest out to some big name guys and some family dudes like True Master and 4th Disciple. But you know what the last time they let other people produce on a Wu album The W got a couple of clunkers. I don't know man I told my Poppa Wu they shouldn't put the album out without Rae but they think he's being selfish. Rza is putting up the money for this project out of his project so he probably can't pay Rae what Rae feels he deserves.
18. "If they chose their beats/producers smartly they can." In response to Reply # 17 Thu Apr-17-14 04:25 PM by BigReg
Harry Fraud Alchemist etc.
Look at Rae's current run and Ghostface's '00 run...90% of the production involved in those albums/mixtapes didn't involve the Rza and they stood up to Wu quality for the most part.
Like you said, Rza needs to exec produce but with how influencial the Rza was there are probably hundreds of dope 'rza-esque' beats that just need to be unearthed, no need for him to try to recreate the magic 20 years removed.
In fact: RZA and Raekwon should exec produce the album together. They can produce it Supreme Clientele style, like you said outsourcing for beats while RZA ultimately sews the whole thing together thematically. That makes the most sense to me
19. "Didn't Nathaniel used to post here?" In response to Reply # 0
Anyway it's not like Rae is wrong. I'd just rather not see things play out like this. But yeah, a strong argument can be made that the Rza is out of touch. _________________________________________
Lately I've had the strangest feeling.... that you were GOOOONNNNEEEE
28. "Didn't they already go through this w/ 8 Diagrams?" In response to Reply # 0
C'mon dude...stop trying to be the boss. Go spit your verses...go on tour and get that Outkast @ Coachella money from Skrillex' audience. Put out another hot Rae (& Ghost) record...invest in your lil' thing things. And go sit down somewhere.
Raekwon and RZA both have points. RZA has the record on his side: when the Clan trusts him, they win. He's proven that he has vision. BUT...the last couple Wu-Tang albums sort of came and went. And I agree with Raekwon, bringing in outside producers could be dope. He had a couple weak joints, but he's redeemed himself and I think he may have learned from rocking with RZA, Dre and Kanye.
Raekwon and Ghostface have both made great albums that weren't primarily produced by Wu-Tang members, but that still embodied the Wu spirit. OB4CL2 and Fishscale should be the template now, IMO. Let RZA oversee, but pick different producers.
I hate seeing it play out this way, but sometimes I think RZA needs to get called out publicly vs. convos being private and not going anywhere.
32. "I can't envision a Wu album without RZA." In response to Reply # 0
Rae raises a valid point but Rza needs to be involved in the record. The Wu shouldn't go full mainstream but spend a few years crafting a masterpiece together.
In other words, WHY CANT THEY GET ALONG? Rae could've told RZA this. They're not making $5 million off record sales on the first week of the album's release.
No empathy for white misery (c) BDot
"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."
37. "Rae has a point; especially here...." In response to Reply # 0
"because RZA, you’re not in the field no more. I’m still paying attention to what’s going"
I mean listen to the shit RZA is putting out. Rae is out here rapping with this new generation. He knows what's hot RIGHT NOW. RZA obviously doesn't.
Sure, RZA spearheaded the Wu movement, and no one would know any of these guys if it weren't for him, but that doesn't give him a lifetime pass of knowing what's hot in the streets. If nobody had the testicular fortitude to call him out, everyone would be saying the Wu need to get rid of the yes men and have someone stand up. Well that's exactly what Rae is doing. I personally have to appreciate his for refusing to go along with some shit he ain't feeling and is opposed to to such a degree.
38. "reakwoon's verse on Pinata was straight garbage tho" In response to Reply # 37
he sounded like a fat out of shape grown man desperately clinging to the empty and boring imagery that made ppl latch onto him in the first place
i mean his shit was more boring & wack than all those weak ass youngins clogging up the latter half of the album w/ their snoozefest lyrics & flows, and thats saying something
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
39. "I don't want to hear the Wu over what's hot right now" In response to Reply # 37
So Rae can GTFOH with that nonsense. He has a loyal niche following because of one album. OB4CL... True RZA win rings in the past but so has Rae. He hasn't won any rings recently so keep doing his little solo thing and RZA needs to stick to scoring films and let the Wu legacy live as is.
****************************************** Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks
48. "Of course but I don't want to hear Wu over that shit" In response to Reply # 41
Wu just need to leave the group album alone and continue with their solo careers. You can't have a Wu album where Rza isn't handling most of the production.
****************************************** Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks
>With OB4CL2, with only THREE tracks out of 18 produced by the >Rza, and they were the weakest ones. > >His two mixtapes since then, which were dope, were also >totally Rza free if I remember correctly.
Shaolin VS Wu ain't have no RZA beats either.
>Dude came in and rocked one of the best verses in a number one >album with Schoolboy Q (also showing he can rock with the new >cats). > >Half the people in the post I don't think have been paying >attention to the work he's been putting in, in 2014 he's >easily the most vital Wu member.
54. "I gotta stop you there" In response to Reply # 49
New Wu was one of the best songs on that album and honestly the ONLY one I still play. I think that album was overrated to be honest. It was good, but just that...good.
58. "Woah. I recommend you give it another try" In response to Reply # 54
>New Wu was one of the best songs on that album and honestly >the ONLY one I still play. I think that album was overrated to >be honest. It was good, but just that...good.
FAT LADY SINGS! From the intro to the actual song, brought chills to me I haven't felt since the mesh of Mobb Deep's GOD III. Songs like Canal Street, Surgical gloves, sounds like vintage WU.
Man, when "Kiss The Ring" came out with them flipping that Elton John sample?
but lets say Im just an overeager fanboy, even if it's jut 'good' its many steps better than what any of the primary members have done in the last ten years (obviously outside of Ghostface).
60. "Ha, that's what I feel about Fishcale" In response to Reply # 57 Fri Apr-18-14 10:23 AM by BigReg
>OB4CL2 is a bit overrated here. It was good but not great.
Considering Supreme Clientele is one of my favorite albums of all times, along with how close he came to matching it with the original version of Bulletproof Wallets, Fishscale felt like he was trying too hard (Underwater felt like a cheap copy of 'The Sun' for instance)
But like I said above, even if it's just good(OB4CL2), its MILES away better then what the primary members have been doing as of late, including Ghostface if we count Twelve Reasons, Big Doe Rehab, etc...
We can disagree at Raekwon doing great work, but I think we can agree he's doing good work, which makes him better then 90% of the clan including Rza, lol.
Rae knows what the fuck he's talking about and has the material to prove it. Ghost was probably the most important and influential clansman for years, but Rae has definitely taken that spot. Cuban linx 2, Shaolin vs Wu, and that lost jewels mixtape were all crazy. RZA needs to let go of his ego and consider some of the points Raekwon is making because they're valid.
46. "Elephant in the room $$" In response to Reply # 0
"Where specifically do you feel slighted, businesswise? In order for Chef to work, the Chef contract has to be correct. It has to be a situation where I can say, "You know what? This is the best situation for me and my family." That’s who I work for. I work for my family."
All that other talk is just that talk. IMO it boils down to this. Rae wants more $$.
47. "Elephant in the room $$" In response to Reply # 0
"Where specifically do you feel slighted, businesswise? In order for Chef to work, the Chef contract has to be correct. It has to be a situation where I can say, "You know what? This is the best situation for me and my family." That’s who I work for. I work for my family."
All that other talk is just that talk. IMO it boils down to this. Rae wants more $$.
55. "Rza isn't trying to make an album to please the world" In response to Reply # 0
Rae is trying to compete somewhat and Rza just wants to do one last self contained Wu album for the fans. I think a happy medium can be reached. Honestly they shouldn't be trying to compete. They have world wide fans so the Wu will be good. They just need to make a quality album. Honestly though, Rza gotta stop adding shit to the songs at the end without people knowing.
Ultimately I don't want to hear this album without the clan in harmony (or as close as possible to that).
so he ain't showing up to events not contributing and/or greenlighting verses for the new album asking for more money and trying to sabotage the album in the media hmmmm
and poppa wu brings up a good point about how rae is fucking up the money of dudes who really NEED these albums to be released (ugod,cappa,etc)
>and poppa wu brings up a good point about how rae is fucking >up the money of dudes who really NEED these albums to be >released (ugod,cappa,etc) >
Reply 68 tho. Rae worked his ass off in recent years to keep his name and brand alive to make it synonymous with quality. WTF U-god and Cappa been doing? How they gon blame Rae for fuckin' up they money when they ain't put in the work he put in? Lol, foh.
"How you a man waitin' for the the next man to get rich" - Nas
79. "If anything, THAT's why the album won't be what it should be..." In response to Reply # 76
certain members haven't been keepin' them swords sharp and are functioning below par. Rae been out here working, making music. I don't even blame him if he feels like he's too good to rock with the likes of Cappadona or Masta Killa for the same rate.
99. "RE: If anything, THAT's why the album won't be what it should be..." In response to Reply # 79
>certain members haven't been keepin' them swords sharp and >are functioning >below par. >Rae been out here working, making music. >I don't even blame him if he feels like he's too good to rock >with the likes of Cappadona >or Masta Killa for the same rate.
Masta Killa did what Rae's doing FIRST. All the members coulda done it and still can
... Charter member, but I don't post much. LAZERS.
81. "uh cause the next man is part of a GROUP" In response to Reply # 69
>"How you a man waitin' for the the next man to get rich" - >Nas >
lol i'm sure ugod and them are doing whatever the hell they do in their spare time has nothing to do with 1 bad apple fucking it up for the whole group if this was like 5 or 6 members of wu bitching then i'd get it but when everybody is pointing at one or two dudes fucking it up for everybody then nah. not acceptable
68. "Rae spent the last 5 plus yrs building his brand back up...." In response to Reply # 0 Fri Apr-18-14 11:23 AM by TheRealBillyOcean
by pumping out mixtapes, releasing studio albums, hopping on remixes, hopping on young niggaz tracks, and doing all that hard work. He's not about to ruin that for no shitty check and lend his name to some subpar shit.
Fuck taking one for the team. They ain't kids no more. If the rest of them dudes want to take an L or have limited input that's on them.
78. "RE: Everyone's ignoring the elephant in the room that "Keep Watch" sucke..." In response to Reply # 77
>>Fuck doing it for the fans. > >Everybody wants the new Wu albums, but if they are of that >quality? its best to left sleeping dogs lie. > > The Wu haven't mattered for years. We may want a Wu album here at OKP and those of similar ilk but rap fans in general aren't checking for them.
****************************************** Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks
83. "and yet he stills lives in a 1bedroom in camden county" In response to Reply # 68
lol, nigga can't even afford to live in north jersey with buddens and them foh his albums ain't even doing jim jones numbers and it aint like he doing guest verses on maclemore or something that's cutting a real check so let's not overstate it like he's having some career resurgence or some shit avg. 21 yr still couldn't pick that nigga out of a lineup. STOP IT. he struggling just like the rest of them, popa wu alluded to it really being about him trying come up more than anything the other wu members are smart enough to realize RZA strategy will work and worst case get them another big international tour and some pub
>he struggling just like the rest of them, popa wu alluded to >it really being about him trying come up more than anything >the other wu members are smart enough to realize RZA strategy >will work and worst case get them another big international >tour and some pub
88. "RE: My very first white girl, white girl" In response to Reply # 74
At least they're cashing a check as bad as that album was. Some of the other members of the Wu can't generate a buzz solo. They need a group album to eat.
****************************************** Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks
95. "Keep Watch is cleaner than a bar of soap. Whose the A&R?" In response to Reply # 0
>------------------------------------------- >What do you think of "Keep Watch"? > >"I hate it. I hate it. I don’t hate shit, but I hate that >fuckin’ record. It ain’t the gunpowder that my brothers are >spitting; it’s the production.
This song is a piece of shit coming from the Wu-Tang Clan. First of all whose your A&R? A mountain climber who plays an electric guitar? He don't know the meaning of dope when he's looking for a suit and tie rap with a corny R&B hook that's cleaner than a bar of soap.
For the last year there's been a lot of music coming out, the shit's been weak. A lot of people trying to take hip-hop and make that shit R&B, rap and bullshit, or make that shit funk. Fuck that, this is MCin right here, this is hip-hop.
Not R&B with a wack mc taking the loot, looping that shit thinking it's gonna be the sound of the culture - that player bullshit - all that player dressing up, on this shit, acting like this some kind of fashion show man. This is hip-hop right here. This is lyrics, MCing!
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