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GumDrops
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Mon Mar-17-14 09:38 AM

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"the isleys & the black roots of kraftwerk (wire magazine swipe)"
Mon Mar-17-14 09:43 AM by GumDrops

  

          

still have to read this properly, but from skimming it, im not sure i agree with this deference to 'roots', i.e. just because something has roots in something, it of course pays a great debt to those roots at ALL TIMES (and that goes for 'black' and 'white' music, though of course it gets messier when youre talking about black techno and white kraftwerk), even when it outgrows those roots, but hey, it looks like an interesting read.

http://www.thewire.co.uk/in-writing/essays/collateral-damage_tony-herrington-on-the-soul-of-electronic-dance-music-29686

Collateral Damage: Tony Herrington on the soul of electronic dance music
March 2014
Collateral+Damage+The+Isley+Brothers+Kraftwerk

Reasserting the roots of Kraftwerk’s sound in African-American R&B and jazz reveals how the soul of electronic dance music is being throttled by the dead hand of the culture industry. By Tony Herrington

In January, David Toop gave a talk at London’s Science Museum in which he made the startling assertion that Kraftwerk were Dusseldorf’s answer to The Isley Brothers. Rather than a frivolous provocation by a bored theorist, this represented a rare return to a subject David once made his own, critiquing existing orthodoxies on the historical give and take of African-American and European popular musics, remaking connections that have been ignored for various nefarious reasons (or just through sheer ignorance) by critics and academics alike; or that have been written out of history altogether for being too damn inconvenient or messy.

David’s talk was partly prompted by a Facebook post by Kirk Degiorgio, which bemoaned the fact that the African-American contribution to Kraftwerk’s sound has been routinely sidelined by three decades of rhetoric proclaiming them der Patenonkels of techno and electro. As anyone familiar with the two interviews with Kirk published in The Wire (way back in issues 160 and 214), this is a bone of contention he has been gnawing away at for some time.

As far as Kirk is concerned, the origins of techno and electro and all the musics that flow from them lie in the synthesized basslines, applied rhythmic technologies and Afrofuturist concepts developed in the early 1970s – pre-Autobahn, pre-Radio Activity – by such African-American visionaries as Herbie Hancock, George Duke, Bernie Worrell and Stevie Wonder, which Juan Atkins et al then took to the next level. Previously he has come up with ingenious theories, rooted in a class analyses of the catastrophic socio-economic conditions that prevailed in the handful of African-American run US cities in the 70s and 80s, to explain why early Detroit techno is infected by white electro pop tropes seemingly picked up from over exposure to Depeche Mode and Thomas Dolby. Now he looks to be getting down to the serious business of recalibrating those tropes’ respective source as African-American by proxy.

On Facebook, Kirk mentioned The Isleys in relation to Kraftwerk, and in his talk, David took up the idea and ran with it, expanding the argument to include the impact of progressive African-American jazz on the Dusseldorf mensch-machines.

But Kraftwerk as the German Isleys makes sudden sense to me, on both formal and musicological levels. Old song forms retrofitted with new technologies: that sounds like what Kraftwerk did and what African-American popular music had been doing since the get go. Think of the transition from country blues in the 30s to electric blues in the 50s: the same songs only now technologized. Then think about what Kraftwerk did two decades later to Chuck Berry’s automotorik R&B. The source code of “Autobahn” is routinely located in the music of The Beach Boys. Fine, but then analyse the source of The Beach Boys’ sound, which according to Brian Wilson himself, was an attempt to rewire 50s inner city African-American doo-wop and R&B for the car and beach culture of 60s California.

The Isleys began their remarkable 60 year career as a doo-wop group in 1954, a year before the official birth of rock ’n’ roll, then moved through the eras of R&B, soul, funk, disco, electro, house, new jack swing and on and on right up to the present moment of Auto-tuned MOBO. As far as lengthy careers go, they have around 15 years on their Deutsche doppelgangers. But play Radio-Activity back to back with Tour De France Soundtracks: as with The Isleys, and virtually every other African-American R&B act that has stayed the course, the songs remain the same; it’s the upgrades in the technology that catch the imagination.

During his talk David cued up The Isleys’ “Highways Of My Life” and Kraftwerk’s “Tanzmusik” and played them back simultaneously to make a mischevious-serious point about shared musical roots. In an even more inspired moment, he dropped The Isley’s 1969 “Vacuum Cleaner” (“My love is like a vacuum cleaner/It keeps pulling me in”) as an example of the kind of techno-eroticism that had long been a part of the imagery of African-American R&B and would become such a key Kraftwerk trope.

But the progressive jazz influences on Tone Float by the pre-Kraftwerk Organisation and the first two Kraftwerk albums proper are there for all to hear, in particular the Afrodelic sounds-in-space odysseys developed in the mid-late 60s by The Art Ensemble Of Chicago and Pharaoh Sanders, as well as the monolithic one chord vamping plus freak out soloing interspersed with passages of pure tone float that characterised Miles Davis’s late 60s groups, and which Miles adapted from James Brown and Sly Stone. Like Miles, Kraftwerk’s genius partly resided in their preternatural ability to instantly detect, absorb and repurpose minute but significant shifts in the fundamental stuff of African-American popular music, which is to say rhythms and technology. And the tight-but-loose percussive rhythms on those first two Kraftwerk records, which were then quantized on Ralf Und Florian to establish the rhythmic grid Kraftwerk would utilise for the rest of their career, sound exactly like those laid down on Bitches Brew and Miles Davis At Fillmore fractionally earlier by Jack DeJohnette, who we may have to now retroactively acknowledge as one of the founding fathers of motorik.

Was this one of the reasons those records were mysteriously excluded from 2009’s otherwise comprehensive repacking of the Kraftwerk catalogue, a project overseen by the group itself? Maybe white critics and fans with either cloth ears or clandestine agendas or axes to grind aren’t the only ones looking to wipe the slate clean of anything that will get in the way of maintaining Kraftwerk’s cult status as the Mitteleuropa ground zero of electronic dance music.

Such talk is guaranteed to get the trolls clambering out of their holes. When Kirk Degiorgio dissed Throbbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire in relation to the more complex rhythmatics of house, techno and electro in the second of those two Wire interviews, an irate reader laid into him on the next issue’s Letters page: “TG were utilising sequenced rhythms… a full ten years before Degiorgio’s heroes in dance music,” spat Tim Jones from Manchester, which was a particulaly sobering example of the kind of aggressive reactionary historical revisionism that has been brought to bear on the origins of electronic dance music from the other side of the tracks, and now I think about it, I can’t believe we actually published it without comment. Meanwhile, laissez-faire postmodernists will dismiss it all as essentialist and atavistic.

But consider this: in 2014, post-techno electronic dance music is increasingly being annexed to the whitest ever white worlds of stadium rock, post-industrial culture and sound art, a deleterious process that further isolates it from its origins in postwar African-American culture. For one thing, you can’t actually dance to much of this stuff anymore. The act and art of dancing have been rendered null and void by the music’s devolution into Skrillex-like festival bangers or liminal electronica. This is significant because dancing, in case anyone needed reminding, was once a key function of the music, a crucial component in a dynamic and inclusive feedback loop. Taking it out of that loop has implications for the music’s social dynamic and by extension its racial, sexual and economic dynamics too. Likewise, electronic dance music’s migration into museums and gallery spaces (Kraftwerk’s most recent venues of choice) is detaching it from the vernacular of pop culture itself. Instead, it is channeled into petit bourgeois notions of what constitutes serious art (ironically, or maybe not, David Toop’s talk took place in a museum gallery in advance of a performance of Kraftwerk’s music rescored for classical ensemble). This in turn prescribes the terms and conditions in which audiences might react and respond to it, devolving it into a highbrow, non-participatory spectator sport; even worse, it predetermines the kinds of individuals that might constitute those audiences, actively excluding all Others.

In the midst of all this, and as critics and producers continue to cite Kraftwerk and their industrial progeny as electronic dance music’s ne plus ultra, the need to state the uncomfortable historical facts of the matter, to redraw a more complex lineage that goes back to the revolutionary technological progressions that swept through African-American music on the cusp of the 70s, feels more necessary, not to say liberating, than ever.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
was with 'em to the second to last paragraph
Mar 17th 2014
1
okay but
Mar 17th 2014
2
      RE: okay but
Mar 17th 2014
5
           RE: okay but
Mar 18th 2014
6
Masturbation
Mar 17th 2014
3
yeah im not sure about this
Mar 17th 2014
4
Eh, Kraftwerk's roots in popular music was primarily Velvet Underground....
Mar 18th 2014
7
Now If He Compared Kraftwerk To James Brown & The JB's...
Mar 18th 2014
8
Two other things:
Mar 18th 2014
9
this argument seems like it's a boilerplate argument
Mar 18th 2014
10

imcvspl
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Mon Mar-17-14 09:52 AM

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1. "was with 'em to the second to last paragraph"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

which was just a poorly constructed argument. i get what was trying to be said but it just wasn't done right.

related to the previous though, it's been stated by many that what grabbed those detroit artists to the sound of kraftwerk was the apparent blackness of it. the music when they first heard it ha no face. this racial ambiguity led them to hear the music first in the context which they understood and that was a relevant expression of their perspective of blackness.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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GumDrops
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Mon Mar-17-14 01:02 PM

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2. "okay but"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

the techno parties were also about rejecting a kind of 'ghetto'-ness in favour of a certain european-ness. im not sure if it was a 'blackness' per se that may and saunderson etc saw, or if they just recognised something that seemed kinda 'urban' and like the detroit that was all around them. i think the funkiness of kraftwerk is overstated really - i dont hear them as being 'funky' until the 80s.

im also not sure how positive it is to insist that when ___ (insert black artist) says they like _____ (insert white artist) it has to be cos they see 'blackness' in it. whats wrong with black artists liking 'white music' (or non-black music) on its own terms? its saying black listeners/artists can only like something if they recognise themselves in it.

  

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imcvspl
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Mon Mar-17-14 08:15 PM

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5. "RE: okay but"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>the techno parties were also about rejecting a kind of
>'ghetto'-ness in favour of a certain european-ness.

not sure about this at all. i've never heard of detroit techno as a rejection of ghettoness.

>im not
>sure if it was a 'blackness' per se that may and saunderson
>etc saw, or if they just recognised something that seemed
>kinda 'urban' and like the detroit that was all around them.

more than whether or not it was the blackness, it was the racial ambiguity starting with the dj playing it inbetween the funkadelic cuts and headhunters that allowed it to be digested into the vocabulary. as they heard it on the radio there wasn't a call out of "now we're going to listen to a bunch of white boys from germany". the europeanness wasn't conveyed through the music on first listen.

>i
>think the funkiness of kraftwerk is overstated really - i dont
>hear them as being 'funky' until the 80s.

has nothing to do with funk imo.

>im also not sure how positive it is to insist that when ___
>(insert black artist) says they like _____ (insert white
>artist) it has to be cos they see 'blackness' in it. whats
>wrong with black artists liking 'white music' (or non-black
>music) on its own terms? its saying black listeners/artists
>can only like something if they recognise themselves in it.

that's not what i'm saying at all. just pointing to the musical connection and the radio formatting which allowed german music to be influential in black detroit. if someone on a late night hot 97 show played sigur ros (extreme example sorry) in their mix, it would stand out like what is this. there wasn't that type of reaction to a german band being played on detroit radio. in fact quite the opposite, as it had the artists going out the next day trying to find it because it worked in context.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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GumDrops
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Tue Mar-18-14 03:44 AM

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6. "RE: okay but"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>>the techno parties were also about rejecting a kind of
>>'ghetto'-ness in favour of a certain european-ness.
>
>not sure about this at all. i've never heard of detroit techno
>as a rejection of ghettoness.

i hate citing wikipedia but it was the easiest option.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_techno#Origins
here you go:

"Most of the early party-goers were made up of middle-class black youths... The club scene created by techno in Detroit was also a way for suburban blacks in Detroit to distance themselves from “jits,” slang for lower class African Americans living in the inner-city .“Prep parties” were obsessed with flaunting wealth and incorporated many aspects of European culture including club names like Plush, Charivari, and GQ Productions, reflecting European fashion and luxury, because Europe signified high class. In addition prep parties were run as private clubs and restricted who could enter based on dress and appearance. Party flyers were also an attempt to restrict and distance lower class individuals from the middle class club scene."

>that's not what i'm saying at all. just pointing to the
>musical connection and the radio formatting which allowed
>german music to be influential in black detroit. if someone
>on a late night hot 97 show played sigur ros (extreme example
>sorry) in their mix, it would stand out like what is this.
>there wasn't that type of reaction to a german band being
>played on detroit radio. in fact quite the opposite, as it
>had the artists going out the next day trying to find it
>because it worked in context.

well yeah - since you had things like euro disco (i feel love etc) already in the air, kraftwerk probably wasnt that big of a jump from that.

  

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handle
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3. "Masturbation"
In response to Reply # 0


          

.

  

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cgonz00cc
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Mon Mar-17-14 08:00 PM

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4. "yeah im not sure about this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And the backlash of the edm era has turned into a "how real can you keep it?" competition

So its hard to separate the butthurt reaching from actual factuals

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
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Tue Mar-18-14 08:40 AM

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7. "Eh, Kraftwerk's roots in popular music was primarily Velvet Underground...."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Mar-18-14 08:41 AM by Jakob Hellberg

          

The monolithic, minimalist, metronomic du-du-du-du-du approach to rhythm in VU songs like "Waiting for the man" and "Sister Ray" was what Kraftwerk transferred to electronic instruments on their early songs that weren't more ambient and you can hear it as late as on a song like "Radioactivity"; the electronics obscure just how influential VU was on the band but from a "groove"-perspective, that's where it comes from and it's an approach-also heard in Suicide's early music; they started to play in clubs in the same era and shared the VU obsession-that is far removed from the "swing" and "groove" of R&B; rather, the reason Kraftwerk most likely felt a connection to VU was because they could relate this minimalist drone-approach to rhythm to their own background in the classical avantgarde and worship of composers like Terry Riley and others.

This is not me projecting; Kraftwerk has acknowledged the influence on VU on the bands earlier works themselves and it's the type of stuff that is not blatant because the instrumentation is so different but quite obvious once you are aware of it.

Kraftwerk's first attempt at being a bit more "sterotypically" black IMO was the Man-Machine album and then, they were drawing from funk and disco and even asked Rose Royce's engineer to help them out; maybe a song like "Trans europe express" showcase it too a little but it almost sounds coincidental; as if the groove is so stiff and robotic that it kind of crosses the line and becomes groovy in itself if that makes sense. Before that? Eh, sounds like one HELL of a stretch to me not to mention revisionist as fuck...

  

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Dj Joey Joe
Member since Sep 01st 2007
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Tue Mar-18-14 09:07 AM

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8. "Now If He Compared Kraftwerk To James Brown & The JB's..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...then I can say yes but not Isley Brothers, until James Brown showed the non-white audience what the new funk was then everybody from jazz to rock to r&b started on that vibe, notice how the music changed after 1976 had the drums up front, and funky basslines thumpin along, before than people were on the british jam band vibe or country/bluegrass sound, except for the black artists which were still in their Motown phase which I will give Isley Brothers credit since they were apart of that too.

I just think the writer tried too hard to make a connection where there wasn't one to be made just for the heck of writing something.


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---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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Tue Mar-18-14 10:11 AM

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9. "Two other things:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

1. Using "Tanzmusik" as an example is kind of bad. I had to play that song again and indeed, it's one of the early Kraftwerk-songs that uses a corny drum-preset from an electric organ; that's the type of shit experimental "idea-musicians" (and Sly!) did, using a corny preset as an example of Kraftwerk's connection to the Isleys is kind of insulting to the Isleys I think.

2. The "afro-futurist" angle kind of misses the fact that syntheseizers were in the mid 60's-early 70's primarily associated with the classical avant-garde and only a novelty in pop/jazz/rock until about 72-73 or so which of course is where Kraftwerk came from as well. Furthermore, the *way* Kraftwerk utilized the electronics where far more in line with said classical composers than with jazz-musicians (or rock-musicians for that matter, there's some similarities with Stevie Wonder's work though): pre-programmed sequencences etc. rather than improvisation and jamming.

Actually, Kraftwerk was IMO one of the german bands who drew the *least* from then contemporary jazz and those ideas and the jamming on the first album and Tone Float sounds more psych-rock and, again, VU than jazz-based to me.

A band like Can would be a far better example of a band that fit the afro-futurist comparison and they even used the same ideas that Miles Davis and Teo Macero used in terms of creating compositions from editing loose jam-sessions. However, they were of course not too electronic and futuristic and blah-blah...

  

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forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
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Tue Mar-18-14 12:28 PM

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10. "this argument seems like it's a boilerplate argument"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Mar-18-14 12:29 PM by forgivenphoenix

  

          

in which Kraftwerk and Detroit techno could be taken out and replaced with Count Basie and Duke Ellington. Same for Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley (humor me, please) Or James Brown and Fela.

I don't like the argument not so much because it's not a sound argument, but because its a tired one and essentially a common product of how popular culture gets appropriated.

An originator creates a sound

That sound is in effect translated by a true fan of the originator's music who is a part of a culture with untapped appreciation of the original sound that would have sounded foreign to that culture

That translated sound gets innovated and eventually aped into something that doesn't resemble the original.

That translated sound becomes appreciated as a 'dead' art.

The writer could have written on the phenomenon of how art 'dies' as it becomes further removed from its original source or unsung originators whether in black music or other genres or the messy history of cultural assimilation and the irony of art seeming to praise originality yet fans being blind to it at times and to me would have been interesting.

The only point of this article was just to prove that the writer is right...which is cool, but it didn't seem to connect the dots between Kraftwerk and black American music in attention grabbing way.

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