rappers, who know nothing about music except how to competently rap, guiding their own careers musically.

i've talked about this in some incarnation on this site as: "the autonomous mc"

yeah just wanted to talk about it again.

so many hot beats were made in the 00's, they either never got used or never got used right.

what you mere mortals call "classics", i.e. great songs.
so many hours of them that never were willed into existence because idiot stargazing rappers chasing mainstream trends didn't know how to make music that suited their own attributes and made derivative, weak material and were too bullheaded to have a musical consultant outside of managers and a&rs who were getting kickbacks to shop wack beats.

i mean yes, stephen hill erasing indie/east coast rap from BET's playlist, yes major labels homogenizing all major label singles to "partytime!" to try to diminish risk and destroying the White market share of 96-01 in the process, the south running unopposed for years, rappers post-poning their own careers with mixtapes and "street singles" because they were too scared to take a leap of faith due to fear of failure, cutting edge acts being "suppressed" or rather ignored out of mattering to any sort of real audience at large, the NMC and other bandits pillaging any remaining interest in rap music, scamming people into clicking shitty, rushed material on the internet for advertising profit, payola/blogola - yeah all of that counts.

but rappers who could rap but didn't seek out good production (which there were was an abundance of in the 00's) and who made material that didn't suit their own style of rapping and didn't stick to ther guns in any way because they thought they'd get rich making songs that nobody enjoyed but that sounded "contemporary"... huge reason rap music is completely worthless and can't be given away for free anymore.

i mean look at the guilty simpsons, the frankndanks, the justice leagues, all the awful rapping we were willing to tolerate in the 00's just because it had well-constructed production.

look at how every single from the 00's, popular to unpopular has evaporated without the cloak of "buzz" propping it up.
the material means nothing to anyone.
not even kids born in the mid-90's "who grew up on it".

this is what all the rappers who shunned all the great beatmakers of their generation were chasing.

-
don't cause trouble, don't bother nobody.

But, overall, beyond horrible beat selection (for example, on Nas' Life Is Good and Jay's MCHG; can't NO ONE convince me those are good albums), the biggest problem I have with modern rap are two things you mentioned in your rant:

Trend chasing and fear of re-entry into the market

With the South seemingly having taken over the airwaves, it appears that NO ONE is willing to take a chance and NOT just put out product that sounds like everyone else's, but instead push the boundaries in a ear pleasing way.

Along with that, there's not enough truth tellers in mainstream media nowadays, so, stuff that is pretty mundane is being praised as genre bending.. I get the feeling that there's a memo (more than likely a paycheck, though) that goes out telling media outlets what the official verdict is on any particular album. They'll heap praise upon albums jUST BECAUSE they come from certain artists and then defend this nonsense with cop out statements like:

"You have to listen to it as album. You can't just listen to it piecemeal."

This SHIT IS NOT Bitches Brew or Dark Side of the Moon. It's cot damn commercial rap!!

"It's just too different for your "homogenized" ears."

This is usually the cop out for some shit that "sounds" somewhat different but isn't particularly good (Yeezus).

And for me, the hilarity ensues when these artists turn around and rate their own albums very low on their totem pole of their OWN albums. The greatest one was when Jay said that he felt MCHG was his SIXTH best album. That surely isn't a man who's very content with that project.

To get back to my point, rap has lost it's adventurous edge and has become entirely a game of pay-for-play, in more ways that just the ole radio payola method. Nowadays, you can buy ANYTHING. Plays on youtube, plays on soundcloud, downloads, etc...

So, now, it's almost impossible to really tell what's ACTUALLY good. If you go by plays and hype, you'll get burnt on a somewhat gonorrheic level many times over.

And it doesn't only happen within the mainstream. Once in a while, you'll get cats on the underground like Jonwayne who are getting all kinds of accolades and praise but leave you scratching your head, thinking this CAN'T be what they were talking about...

So, I think it really comes down to undertaking the challenge of weeding through the nonsense and fluff and actually finding stuff that's worth listening to.

As far as the fear of failing, I think Fabolous is one of the most prescient examples of this. He hasn't dropped an OFFICIAL album since 2009. Now, of course, it could have to do with contractual issues, but, I'm thinking he's just afraid to put his hat back into the ring, ESPECIALLY with New York cats having consigned themselves to riding the Southern bandwagon. Maybe he doesn't know EXACTLY where he's gonna fit or afraid he'll mess around and debut at like #79 on the Billboard 200 like Nelly Furtado did with her last.

Along with that, it seems like a lot of artists are just playing the singles game, getting money off of that (Chris Brown) and only release an album as a compilation of the singles they've released over the past few months/years.

But, in Fab's case, he hasn't had a hit in sometime. Or, at least nothing that would warrant rushing out an ill-advised album release, like Pharrell's mega-hit Happy.

So, Fab and other artists like him are kind of stuck in limbo, putting out mixtapes in order to get tour money but not generating enough buzz to get the major to front the money for another release cycle.

In the end, I think that too much about rap has become about numbers, and ESPECIALLY numbers that don't equate to sales:

Number of followers
Number of retweets
Number of youtube plays
Number of mentions
Number of companies willing to pay for product placement

NOTHING seems organic anymore. No more building a fanbase locally and then pushing it to the next county, then to the next state, etc...

Everyone expects to be big EVERYWHERE instantly, so, if you're gonna provide sustenance for that many people at one time, hell yeah the Kool Aid's gonna be watered down and the food is gonna taste bland...

Then, on an aside, we also have the dilemma of folks not really being honest on HOW they got signed. Back in the day, you knew that "so and so" was someone's cousin and that's how he got put on, for example Consequence being Q-Tip's cousin. But, nowadays, everyone wants you to believe that they got it solely from hustle. Then, you got chicks that are getting signed because they did somebody. I respect cats like Sly Stone who would even go as far as letting a chick record a track in order to get some, but, had the presence of mind to never ACTUALLY sign her and go as far as putting out an album. Nowadays, these cats'll actually follow through on some of those once empty promises...

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

i read your reply and i think we're in agreement on pretty much everything.

i have long contended that trying to quantify someone's importance using such easy to manipulate methods is extremely fallible.

-
don't cause trouble, don't bother nobody.

the post does not compute.

We are a few years removed from cookie cutter lex beats, and those that still traffic im that shit are weird as fuck

http://www.complex.com/music/2014/01/young-thug-kanye-fan

One day I want a "what did you expect hip hop to sound like in 20 years" post and hear people talk the same regurgitated rappity rap along with sampled beats

exist amongst the same, never-ending southern-influenced rapping/production styles we get year after year?

i mean when rap was white hot in say 1998/1999, there were plenty of people who didn't fuck with southern rap at all.

like it existed, but it did not exist on their playlist... yet there was enough other stuff to keep them satisfied as fans.

now that rap has cooled off after 10 years or so of southern style-influenced rap being the forefront of mainstream rap.

why are people supposed to comply now?

has nobody realized that the hemorrhaging of fans rap music experienced in the last 10 years has SOMETHING to do with it?

-
don't cause trouble, don't bother nobody.

There's 3,625 60's revivalist garage rock revivalist bands, only one, White Stripes, made it big.

Its old timers music, can it be flipped...but lets be honest...to diminishing returns(badass) even for the originators(ghostface) and if you have any success doing it is because you follow that blueprint to a tee(raekwon).

It was its time.


>exist amongst the same, never-ending southern-influenced
>rapping/production styles we get year after year?
>
>i mean when rap was white hot in say 1998/1999, there were
>plenty of people who didn't fuck with southern rap at all.
>
>like it existed, but it did not exist on their playlist... yet
>there was enough other stuff to keep them satisfied as fans.
>
>now that rap has cooled off after 10 years or so of southern
>style-influenced rap being the forefront of mainstream rap.
>
>why are people supposed to comply now?
>
>has nobody realized that the hemorrhaging of fans rap music
>experienced in the last 10 years has SOMETHING to do with it?

east, west, south, north. whatever...

the white dollar power that rap music used to have is gone.

considering the south ran basically unopposed as the main flavor of mainstream rap music pretty much since 2004 onward...

you have to wonder if maybe a little diversity might have kept some of the interest and $...

i mean you run a website for a group that at one time was considered an "east ooast" rap act. albeit, a white darling novelty act, but still.

how much has this websites reach and viewership changed from 2004 -> 2014?

-
don't cause trouble, don't bother nobody.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it — whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer — opens the door to

imo, rap is only fine if you have shitty standards and expectations.

i mean EVERY song ever made is technically enjoyable on some level if you let it be.

again, thank you for replying though.

-
don't cause trouble, don't bother nobody.

Or am I misreading?

What killed rap was initially the super nigga. west coast gangsta rap. then, the supef faggot east coast nigga, sharking the west coast super nigga.


it's that simple. Plus, It Was Written snuffing out any hope for a cultural act to draw without spreading his/her cheeks.



get mad.

big during the roaring 20's. That's one of the main problems.

I got friends that love to say "hip hop was great in blah, blah blah year, but I hate this new stuff"(yet they still support it). So you're telling me there is NO good music out now? Even though more music is being made than ever before? I call bullshit... What you're really telling me is that you miss when radio rap was more diversified and you're too lazy to get online and search for what you like, even though the net has made it easier for everyone to find the style that suits them best?

People speaking on all the stuff they think sucks and not enough of what they like. I know the mainstream of today makes it hard not to focus on the bullshit, but to be honest, very little of my time is spent dwelling on what I hate and geared more toward what I think is dope.

The average fan has a horrible ear for music. Its mostly because of the fans that the airways play what they play. YES its US!!! Here's why: I've seen and heard of crowds not giving a shit about a song or the person who sings it when said artist is virtually unknown. No one wants to listen to music other people haven't heard before. This is so strange to me. It has to be put in heavy rotation to even resonate with most people, which ultimately means people wait for other people to tell them what they themselves like. Just my 2 cents.

╭∩╮（︶︿︶）╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

>The average fan has a horrible ear for music. Its mostly
>because of the fans that the airways play what they play. YES
>its US!!! Here's why: I've seen and heard of crowds not giving
>a shit about a song or the person who sings it when said
>artist is virtually unknown. No one wants to listen to music
>other people haven't heard before. This is so strange to me.
>It has to be put in heavy rotation to even resonate with most
>people, which ultimately means people wait for other people to
>tell them what they themselves like. Just my 2 cents.

Especially this part. i LOVE to reference one time when I was in Philly back in 2007 and a DJ in this club/lounge dropped Justin's My Love. I was going crazy because I had already heard it and it was the joint to me from the FIRST play. But, all the folks in the club were looking at each other like, "What should I do? Is this good? Is it okay to dance to this?"

A month later, it was everybody's jam.

So, yes, unfortunately, most people are not of the type to actively pursue new artists or music on their own. And, I can't blame them, cause there are not many definitive channels outside of the mainstream outlets (radio, Pandora, blogs, etc...) to discover artists. Many times, it ends up just being a shot in the dark. BUT, these alternate channels DO exist, but it just takes much more effort than just opening up something like Pitchfork and going with what they recommend. Although, don't get me wrong, I MUST commend Pitchfork for being one of those sites that does a great job of covering lesser known acts.

In the end, it just comes down to the fact that most folks are just lazy and want to be spoon fed, no matter how much they like to complain about the funny airplane noises their feeder makes when delivering the spoon....

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

------------------------------

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Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

-
don't cause trouble, don't bother nobody.

I grieved also and agree with most here. There have been some very good signs lately. When I heard Schoolboy Q talk about wanting to make true gangsta rap, I almost wanted to say "yay, the King is dead." Not too long ago Black Kobe would have been hotter than Break the Bank, but look. I'll put it like this, just like the NFL, rap is getting a new capital: the west. In this era there will be room for a New York resurgence out of professional courtesy.

Taking shots in the dark/that's a bad call
Going straight for your head/ gotta saw it off

>rappers, who know nothing about music except how to
>competently rap, guiding their own careers musically.
>
>i've talked about this in some incarnation on this site as:
>"the autonomous mc"
>
>yeah just wanted to talk about it again.
>
>so many hot beats were made in the 00's, they either never got
>used or never got used right.
>
>what you mere mortals call "classics", i.e. great songs.
>so many hours of them that never were willed into existence
>because idiot stargazing rappers chasing mainstream trends
>didn't know how to make music that suited their own attributes
>and made derivative, weak material and were too bullheaded to
>have a musical consultant outside of managers and a&rs who
>were getting kickbacks to shop wack beats.
>
>i mean yes, stephen hill erasing indie/east coast rap from
>BET's playlist, yes major labels homogenizing all major label
>singles to "partytime!" to try to diminish risk and destroying
>the White market share of 96-01 in the process, the south
>running unopposed for years, rappers post-poning their own
>careers with mixtapes and "street singles" because they were
>too scared to take a leap of faith due to fear of failure,
>cutting edge acts being "suppressed" or rather ignored out of
>mattering to any sort of real audience at large, the NMC and
>other bandits pillaging any remaining interest in rap music,
>scamming people into clicking shitty, rushed material on the
>internet for advertising profit, payola/blogola - yeah all of
>that counts.
>
>but rappers who could rap but didn't seek out good production
>(which there were was an abundance of in the 00's) and who
>made material that didn't suit their own style of rapping and
>didn't stick to ther guns in any way because they thought
>they'd get rich making songs that nobody enjoyed but that
>sounded "contemporary"... huge reason rap music is completely
>worthless and can't be given away for free anymore.
>
>i mean look at the guilty simpsons, the frankndanks, the
>justice leagues, all the awful rapping we were willing to
>tolerate in the 00's just because it had well-constructed
>production.
>
>look at how every single from the 00's, popular to unpopular
>has evaporated without the cloak of "buzz" propping it up.
>the material means nothing to anyone.
>not even kids born in the mid-90's "who grew up on it".
>
>this is what all the rappers who shunned all the great
>beatmakers of their generation were chasing.

Hip-hop was alive when the regional sound you're so found of was nationally recognized. Now that it's not "hip-hop is destroyed as you put it", in your opinion. This is thinly veiled south hate and I don't like it one bit. All of the legendary producers worked through all of this. The mainstream fans' tastes evolved to new sounds. Enough people supported the legends to keep them on.

You implied Guilty Simpson was wack so you lost any remaining credibility there.

Who are you to say every artist today doesn't know the history of music? That's a reach on your part and you know it. Hip-hop's alive and well but since you on this bullshit let's go.

Y'all dudes kill me with this ideology that because an artist doesn't use all of the techniques of your "regional" sound they're not hip-hop. It's not what you grew up with and it shouldn't be. If it was, no one would buy hip-hop music and the art form would die. That music had a more than respectable run. Stop crying and moaning because the rest of the developed world doesn't play your "regional sound" from a "bygone era" eight times an hour. You're ignoring the role itunes played in this which answers your point about disposable music. In other eras, you had to listen to the whole album to hear the great single or buy a single on a cassette with a few other songs. Itunes allowed users to buy just the song. Of course people won't remember one song if that's all they buy. Basically, advances in technology such as mp3s and digital distribution played a role in diminishing the staying power of music. The material means something to people but everyone doesn't have nearly as much distraction free time to debate its merits in the grand scheme of hip-hop.

*EDIT* Where was all this newfound wisdom when your "preferred regional sound" was nationally recognized? It didn't exist BECAUSE NO ONE CARED. The second dudes stop becoming the "preferred national sound", hip-hop is dead. STOP BEGGING. That dominance stopped a bunch of artists from being heard. They grinded and kept themselves on long enough for the sea to change. Your perspective is somewhat laughable and disingenious to an extent. Notice the South's dominance didn't stop Jake One, Exile, or Marco Polo from having careers and relevancy to the culture. Everybody else eating and not crying about their day. Some of y'all that feel this way disgust and I hope I don't turn into y'all as hip-hop advances.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

That's what killed part of rap music, when people who suppose to be behind the scene who wasn't actually artists but made themselves apart of the music they was putting out.

Let the real artists be in the spotlight not your executive producer, not your record label owner, not your A&R, not your paid radio jock that's on your jock.

https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

THE HOME OF BOOK-NESS:
http://www.thisisbooksmusic.com/
http://twitter.com/thisisjohnbook
http://www.facebook.com/book1


http://i32.tinypic.com/kbewp4.gif
http://i50.tinypic.com/hvqi4w.jpg

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it — whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer — opens the door to

...but you're wrong it's still a few label executives that act like artists more than the actual rappers on their labels.

https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

Good grief

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

This dude is mad the south won. Dude said Jay and Puff (the last long tenured public label owners) ruined hip-hop. The dude said JD, the Neptunes, Scott Storch, Dre, and Yeezus ruined hip-hop as a way to wax poetic about the golden era.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

>This dude is mad the south won. Dude said Jay and Puff (the
>last long tenured public label owners) ruined hip-hop. The
>dude said JD, the Neptunes, Scott Storch, Dre, and Yeezus
>ruined hip-hop as a way to wax poetic about the golden era.

i didn't say any of that.

thanks for your time.

-
don't cause trouble, don't bother nobody.

Place names next to "Super Executive Producer" and "Super Label Owner". You wrote it so stand by it. Own the slander.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

i didn't write post 17.

-
don't cause trouble, don't bother nobody.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

I thought reply 17 was the OP's alias, my bad.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

-
don't cause trouble, don't bother nobody.

>rappers, who know nothing about music except how to
>competently rap, guiding their own careers musically.

The Aughts were also the period that the Internet became a major reason that the acts you mentioned were gained some notoriety - frankanddank, Justus League literally got their image as being the first rap clique to have success soley on internet attention.

The Internet effectively ended the point of a new artist signing with a major label in order to build a career due to a number of factors.

1. The value of a new musician having to sign over their firstborn in order to likely owe money from the first release in order to build a career was not a necessary end.

2. The increased access to DAW's and other music-production technology to amateur musicians greatly diminished the need of musicians' need of money from labels to gain access to studios and the socialization that goes on there.

The chemistry of those developments worked to allow rappers with an underground following to buy beats over the Internet and release them to build buzz more directly and cheaply. Those elements also

I mentioned part of these factors in another post, but the real reason that hip-hop post-Old School became so high quality is because of the learning havens for rappers and producers that studios once were.

Like you said, a rapper without a label essentially has no quality control - no label, no A&R, no marketing team.

But in all honesty, 98% of artists that we all consider great and legendary wouldn't be so without the old media system.

Nas' story with MC Search and the producers of Illmatic and his relationship with Columbia is well-known and doesn't need going over again.

Snoop would probably be an alright rapper with Warren G as his producer, but he became SNOOP when he signed with Dr. Dre - the best talent scout in modern pop / hip-hop music - and Suge Knight and the help of Jimmy Iovine at Interscope

Biggie was raw and definitely had talent, but without Puffy he's probably a rapper who's only big in the NYC area. Puffy became Puff Daddy based on his record breaking Mary J. Blige and other artists with Uptown Records.

Kendrick Lamar would be a great rapper that only heads in the know would know if not without the guidance of Dre.

It's worth mentioning that the only producers who seemed to make an artistic impact in the Aughties did so with the guidance and influence of well-regarded producers of the prior decade.

9th Wonder basically emulated Pete Rock's style and also was able to share knowledge with him.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Black Milk a Dilla protege?

Since producers have an easier time swapping notes on a beat they made over the internet, the aesthetics of the beats seemed to not be as influenced by lack of social interaction. Likely since producers need to meet in person with rappers in order to really fine tune their chemistry.

Bammer, I appreciate the aim of your posts. However, I think you're beating a dead horse with this BET / Stephen Hill element you keep bringing up.

As much as fans of the culture regarded BET and MTV as cultural gatekeepers, they are in the business to make money. ALL labels are in the business to make money.

I agree that culturally speaking, the marketing of music with little socially redeeming or affirming value trifles me, but for mostly worse that's what the companies that sell culture in America do and has done since the mid 1800's as far as I know.

>look at how every single from the 00's, popular to unpopular
>has evaporated without the cloak of "buzz" propping it up.
>the material means nothing to anyone.
>not even kids born in the mid-90's "who grew up on it".

This is an interesting point.

Most of the reason oldheads that visit the lesson appreciate music of our time is because we know all of the cultural landmarks.

We knew the context and impact those records had not only to ourselves but to our friends and the musical culture overall.

Ever since the old model of hyping and marketing music started to evaporate around the turn of the century there have only been a few major events in hip-hop music.

Get Rich or Die Trying, Graduation vs. Curtis, My Dark Twisted Fantasy, Carter III, Drake's first album, Watch The Throne, Blueprint III...that's all I can come up with.

All had media hype and anticipation and all of those moments had hit songs that lasted for a long while after those albums were released.

But I don't think anyone who came of age listening to music in the '80s and '90's would think the albums made of the '00's would match the impact on the culture of hip-hop of albums that Life After Death or All Eyes on Me or even It Was Written had.

Partially because hip-hop was made up of a smaller pool of material. It was easier to make an splash because there was still undiscovered ground to reach that seemed relatable by fans.

Add in the fact that because society as a whole doesn't have much time to let albums soak in in-between major album releases simply because there are a multitude of options - both major releases and mixtapes. I don't think the kids are to blame as much as everyone's attention span is simply much shorter.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

unless you're

gangster, thug, hoe, pimp(s)tress, hustler, poetry-corner nigga, weed-head, 3-hunna, drake-y ...

cant make this music

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

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bitches ain't shit /
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they huntin' my people /

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