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Subject: "Has there ever been an emcee more overshadowed than Guru?" Previous topic | Next topic
icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Tue Mar-04-14 05:20 PM

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"Has there ever been an emcee more overshadowed than Guru?"


  

          

Gift and the curse of working with the GOAT I guess.

Thing is Guru was a dope rapper but his name doesn't often get brought up when talking about dope rappers. Reasons for this may include:

-Preem was the larger figure in the group(both in talent & personality)
-Guru didn't do a lot of guest appearances
-lack of name recognition (solo MC in a group, name wasn't part of group name, a la PR&CL)

He's kind of like the reverse of Eric B & Rakim. I can't think of anyone else more overlooked, underrated rappers like Thought and Phife get more shine(although BT is a much better rapper). He gets respect when he's mentioned, but I don't think there has been anyone more overlooked with that talent level than Guru.


_________________________________________

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Phife is actually overrated but that's another post for another day
Mar 04th 2014
1
agree with the Phife comment
Mar 05th 2014
10
hell yeah
Mar 08th 2014
62
yet he's still a first ballot HOFer
Mar 04th 2014
2
RE: yet he's still a first ballot HOFer
Mar 04th 2014
5
nope
Mar 05th 2014
8
I think Reggie's still very much
Mar 06th 2014
32
RE: yet he's still a first ballot HOFer
Mar 05th 2014
16
      exactly, my man
Mar 06th 2014
46
Black Thought
Mar 04th 2014
3
Guru actually loomed larger in the group for the first half of the 90s
Mar 04th 2014
4
i wish i woulda read this b4 posting my BS
Mar 04th 2014
6
Well said...
Mar 05th 2014
7
Hearing Jeru on 'I'm the Man' underscored Guru's limitations
Mar 05th 2014
9
wrong
Mar 05th 2014
15
Never said he wasn't nice, just that features and Primo's
Mar 06th 2014
25
you sound like a fucking Oreo with this shit
Mar 05th 2014
20
      Either make a point or move on
Mar 06th 2014
26
           Bomb made our point for us
Mar 06th 2014
34
           the point was that you sound like a fucking Oreo
Mar 06th 2014
45
very well stated
Mar 05th 2014
11
^ a good Lessony ass post. *golf clap*
Mar 05th 2014
13
Great post
Mar 05th 2014
22
!!!
Mar 06th 2014
33
Very Well Said
Mar 06th 2014
44
*grim nod of approval*
Mar 07th 2014
57
i thought it was generally accepted that Guru wasn't that good
Mar 05th 2014
12
never heard that until I came here
Mar 05th 2014
14
yep
Mar 05th 2014
17
I first saw it on alt.rap and rec.music.hip-hop...
Mar 05th 2014
18
I never heard that either
Mar 05th 2014
19
you've said some dumb shit but this is probably the dumbest
Mar 05th 2014
21
Guru is in my top 15 of all time greats
Mar 05th 2014
23
whoever says that should not be taken seriously
Mar 06th 2014
35
whoever said that is 10 and speaking out of their ass
Mar 07th 2014
58
OKP.. where dudes hated GURU, but loved rappers from slum village
Mar 05th 2014
24
LOL
Mar 06th 2014
27
I disagree.
Mar 06th 2014
30
      uhhh, who is this "we" that think SV is wack @ rapping
Mar 06th 2014
36
           LOL we're officially in bizarro land here
Mar 06th 2014
40
                there's a lot of truth to that
Mar 06th 2014
48
                     SV were like Group Home.. they sucked while sounding good...
Mar 07th 2014
51
                          if you read. you'd see most of us love Guru
Mar 07th 2014
56
                          People DO shit on him on OKP though...
Mar 08th 2014
65
                          RE: if you read. you'd see most of us love Guru
Mar 08th 2014
67
                          SV were nothing like Group Home
Mar 07th 2014
59
                               true, group home has an all-time CLASSIC album
Mar 08th 2014
66
boston stand up!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mar 06th 2014
28
RE: Has there ever been an emcee more overshadowed than Guru?
Mar 06th 2014
29
you have terrible taste/opinions on rap
Mar 06th 2014
37
what was the last guru feature you got excited about
Mar 06th 2014
49
      Ru didn't do a lot of features
Mar 06th 2014
50
Tommy...you go eat (c) Martin
Mar 06th 2014
47
i knew who guru was before i knew who preem was
Mar 06th 2014
31
Big Boi
Mar 06th 2014
38
My choice.
Mar 06th 2014
42
agreed and Prince Po too
Mar 06th 2014
43
It really all depends on how much you like "Step in The Arena"
Mar 06th 2014
39
I agree with this
Mar 06th 2014
41
I'm with Woe, Guru just wasn't THAT good.
Mar 07th 2014
52
Link from the archives: songs where Guru went OWF
Mar 07th 2014
53
Sometimes I don't know how I miss certain posts.
Mar 07th 2014
54
Memphis Bleek?
Mar 07th 2014
55
Treach is more overshadowed than Guru
Mar 07th 2014
60
And how is Treach not a better emcee than Guru?
Mar 08th 2014
63
      guess that depends on how you define emcee
Mar 08th 2014
68
           Yeah, I was wondering about this part:
Mar 09th 2014
69
I always thought Guru was good, not great
Mar 08th 2014
61
that's how most feel..ask them dudes where they was at when
Mar 09th 2014
70
      most don't feel that way, cut that shit out
Mar 09th 2014
74
Guru nearly ruined most of the shit he was on
Mar 08th 2014
64
Guru was so all time great how come yall ain't big up them albums withou...
Mar 09th 2014
71
He was past his prime at that point
Mar 09th 2014
72
nigga you ride for Pac and you talking about shitty beats?
Mar 09th 2014
73

Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Tue Mar-04-14 05:39 PM

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1. "Phife is actually overrated but that's another post for another day"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I agree that Guru is underrated. Dude held it down on those Gang Starr LP's and the first three Jazzmatazz projects. I think his monotone style wasn't everyone's cup of tea though and being in a group with the GOAT doesn't help either. He was an older dude too so the youth wasn't fucking with the content with the exception of Hard to Earn. I think that album rubbed the older heads the wrong way lyrically. That was the harshest Guru ever got IMO.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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stattic
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10. "agree with the Phife comment"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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Grand_Royal
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62. "hell yeah"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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Tue Mar-04-14 05:47 PM

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2. "yet he's still a first ballot HOFer"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he's not only one of the most overlooked emcees, but he's a great songwriter
MOT has some of the finest songwriting in Hip Hop over the course of an album, and I don't mean in the industry talk bullshit ass way either

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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howardlloyd
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Tue Mar-04-14 09:23 PM

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5. "RE: yet he's still a first ballot HOFer"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

is he overlooked by people who were THERE though?

i think the johnny come latelys who worship at the house of preem and dilla overlook Guru..but anybody who was listening 90-96 knows… whoever fronted on him.

theres a couple of acts that when people dismiss i know they johnny come latelys

puba
treach
guru
redman

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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Wed Mar-05-14 07:25 AM

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8. "nope"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

because everybody else knows how he was the face of Gang Starr before Primo reinvented himself and started doing outside work

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Thu Mar-06-14 03:04 PM

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32. "I think Reggie's still very much"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

celebrated as a great/rapper personality

much more than Puba, Treach or Guru

  

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Original Juice
Member since Oct 03rd 2007
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Wed Mar-05-14 02:34 PM

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16. "RE: yet he's still a first ballot HOFer"
In response to Reply # 2


          

>MOT has some of the finest songwriting in Hip Hop over the
>course of an album, and I don't mean in the industry talk
>bullshit ass way either

aka the "but Future writes good hooks and knows how to craft a song" way.

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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Thu Mar-06-14 07:16 PM

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46. "exactly, my man"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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JG.
Member since Nov 08th 2010
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Tue Mar-04-14 06:43 PM

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3. "Black Thought"
In response to Reply # 0


          

nm

  

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Bombastic
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4. "Guru actually loomed larger in the group for the first half of the 90s"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The initial Gang Starr production duties were a team effort up through Daily Operation.

Premier didn't start becoming the go-to outside producer/DJ extraordinaire until probably around the time of KRS Return of the Boom-Bap in '93 going into '94.

Guru around that same time was the more visible member with the trademark voice, Premier likely started doing more outside work because he had more time basically living at D&D as Guru was taking that Mo Better Blues 'Jazz Thing' concept to the hilt with actual live instrumentation on the first Jazzmatazz album, touring/doing press for that record, being featured on the Brand New Heavies/Neneh Cherry/Dream Warriors/Buhloone Mindstate/Ronny Jordan and other jazz-rap-fusion-related stuff.

Thing is while that stuff was getting a lot of critical praise in that era with write-ups in every music magazine from Downbeat to Spin, like most any other jazz-related records over the past couple decades, it didn't really sell all that well.

Meanwhile Premier (who was also still in the 'jazz-rap' vein a bit in terms of the samples while working with Branford & Dream Warriors but not as overtly) was doing the Jeru album, plus had credits on Ready to Die & Illmatic with his hand in at least one classic record of the era on each.

That same year the belated Hard To Earn dropped, amazingly including the Premier-scratched banger 'Dwyck' which had already had a video plus been the b-side on the 'Take It Personal' cassette-single and presumably 12" for nearly two years by that point.

This was the first album where Premier is credited as the producer rather than co-producer and the album's sound was a bit grittier and more 'hip-hop' than Step In The Arena or Daily Operation.

It's also the first album in their catalog to feature DJ Premier, rather than Guru, in the foreground of the cover photo.

Whether that was an accidental or intentional photographic summation of the shift that had occurred by mid-'94, Premier's trademark musical sound-bed would become the de-facto 'New York Rap'/true-school sound signifier for what seemed like the whole second half of the 90's into early 2000/01.

It was at that point the tables had kinda turned in terms of power, Premier's profile loomed large during the long absence of a Gang Starr record for the next four years as Guru went further down the rabbit-hole of the jazz stuff before wandering in the creative wilderness waiting for his partner to get back in the increasingly longer gaps between group efforts.

Subsequent generations who weren't around or were too young to remember the early 90's now want to now paint it as Guru being carried by Premier or say dumb shit like 'Premier & Jeru were a better duo' while acting like the man with the classic voice + gifts for songwriting beyond a scratched-vocal sample chorus was some kind of Malachi The Nutcracker-style scrub.

Guru's musical regression on the Baldhead Slick album, bizarre relationship with Solar, legal/substance issues, illness and muted/mysterious death didn't help to quell that misguided talk and perception.

But make no mistake that man is a legend and a great MC despite not having earned some imaginary stripes bestowed upon him by the Fat Beats Geeks or their Internet-Rap-Olympic-Nerd offspring thru spitting a multitude of multis & verbal gymnastics

Guru was more concerned with content, clarity, song-craft, storytelling all delivered thru his inimitable vocal filter.

Give the credit y'all......where it is due.

  

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howardlloyd
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6. "i wish i woulda read this b4 posting my BS"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

this is exactly it

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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herbiehowsermc
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Wed Mar-05-14 06:59 AM

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7. "Well said..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

It was sad when these revisionist critisisms started cropping up a few years ago in the Lesson. From now on, I'm going to link to this if I see any.

  

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stattic
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9. "Hearing Jeru on 'I'm the Man' underscored Guru's limitations "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


on the mic. Guru is a great emcee, but I would probably go back and listen to more old of their old albums if they featured an emcee that matched the quality of the production. I think that is more of a nod to their production skills than it is a knock on him, but I was never really checking for him that much

  

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howardlloyd
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15. "wrong"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

go listen to that dwyck verse. shit is classic

guru was nice. jeru never approached the amount of respect guru had.

that's just facts

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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stattic
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25. "Never said he wasn't nice, just that features and Primo's"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          


work with other emcees showed his limitations. Like I said, this likely has more to do with how great Primo's production was than Guru, so not sure what your point is.

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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20. "you sound like a fucking Oreo with this shit"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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stattic
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26. "Either make a point or move on"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

  

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astralblak
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34. "Bomb made our point for us"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

and nerds like you are exactly who he is addressing in the body of his post

AINT NO IFs about those Gang Starr Lps 2-5

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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Thu Mar-06-14 07:15 PM

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45. "the point was that you sound like a fucking Oreo"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

I think I made it pretty concisely known

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Selah
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11. "very well stated"
In response to Reply # 4


          

  

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MISTA MONOTONE
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13. "^ a good Lessony ass post. *golf clap*"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

i never paid attention to the imagery of Preme suddenly being the in front on album covers. ill fact.

thanks for that post.

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

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icecold21
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22. "Great post"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Thanks for that

_________________________________________

  

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astralblak
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33. "!!!"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

BASE.

  

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mathmagic
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44. "Very Well Said "
In response to Reply # 4


          

Indeed

  

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I. Motion
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57. "*grim nod of approval*"
In response to Reply # 4


          

  

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woe.is.me.
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12. "i thought it was generally accepted that Guru wasn't that good"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

a rapper?

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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14. "never heard that until I came here"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

Is he a top 10 emcee? No but Guru is def a good rapper.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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makaveli
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17. "yep"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.â€

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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Wed Mar-05-14 03:20 PM

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18. "I first saw it on alt.rap and rec.music.hip-hop..."
In response to Reply # 14


          

...when I came on the internet in the mid-90's. I couldn't relate at all as a swede who had barely heard Freestyle Fellowship and was "still" digging regular stuff but the "cool" thing then in those collegiate Hip-Hop circles was rappers who had intricate wordplay and "clever" punchlines and multi-syllable flows. I remember people going crazy over J-treds saying "I got more presence than attendants in a class of scizophrenics" like "that is SO dope" and Canibus was extremely cool for a while before the Wyclef-fiasco with his debut. Meanwhile, rappers like Guru was pushed to the side and even considered wack with people saying that Primo was the only reason people cared which Bombastic eloquently explained above wasn't true.

People acted retarded in that era, saying that guys in Mystik Journeymen or isionaries were better than Guru... *SMH*

  

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Ray_Snill
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19. "I never heard that either"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

just like I never heard J-Dilla was a top producer until Quest made a post about him being the goat. then all of sudden the The Love Movement because super dope and LabcabinCalifornia became The Pharcyde's best album. Guru was always pretty much considered a dope MC, nothing more nothing less



<================================
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4837778/william-moore-wwe-tackle-o.gif

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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Wed Mar-05-14 08:30 PM

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21. "you've said some dumb shit but this is probably the dumbest"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
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Wed Mar-05-14 10:39 PM

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23. "Guru is in my top 15 of all time greats"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

  

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astralblak
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Thu Mar-06-14 03:09 PM

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35. "whoever says that should not be taken seriously"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

as a fan of rap

  

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justin_scott
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Fri Mar-07-14 11:23 PM

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58. "whoever said that is 10 and speaking out of their ass"
In response to Reply # 12


          

.

************************************************************

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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24. "OKP.. where dudes hated GURU, but loved rappers from slum village "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

....if anything GURU overshadowed Preem ....you have a better chance saying Pete Rock overshadowed CL, but even then you wouldn't be correct when it comes to the music

  

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13Rose
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27. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

You have a point.

This post was paid for by the following.

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PSN: ThirteenRose

  

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stone_phalanges
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30. "I disagree."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Also, I think everyone knows that Dilla, T3, and Batin weren't good rappers, but they still made good music....just like guru.

www.anwarmorse.com
https://www.instagram.com/thereal_anwarmorse99/

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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36. "uhhh, who is this "we" that think SV is wack @ rapping"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

SV were GREAT rappers, GREAT.

just like Guru was GREAT, at rapping.

both show the different ways in which rapping is a craft/art form and can be manipulated to show the individual's strengths.

speak for yalls selves

  

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woe.is.me.
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40. "LOL we're officially in bizarro land here"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

i love SV Vol 2 as much as the next guy, but to claim ANYONE in SV (apart from Elzhi) was a great rapper is ridiculous.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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48. "there's a lot of truth to that"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

out of the original members Baatin is fay and away the best rapper, when you look at the things he does with spacing and whatnot he's pretty incredible and has one of the most original styles you're going to find
Dilla was a good rapper as well (not great, but good) and T3 was a little above average
but as a group they were great at rapping together, playing off one another and making songs together
they're not superior rappers like some posters like to think of them as (don't get supablak started on that shit, he gets genuinely pissed off when you don't refer to Voodoo or Slum as above reporoach) but they're much more powerful as a group than they are as soloists or when isolated

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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51. "SV were like Group Home.. they sucked while sounding good..."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

...obviously Dilla was the talent even on the mic, and he got pretty good later on as well .

...and I know Guru said its mostly the voice.. but he was a lot more than just a smooth voice on the mic.. i think its a shame how people shit on the guy on OKP.. only here do i ever hear that shit too.. go figure

  

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astralblak
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56. "if you read. you'd see most of us love Guru"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

and know he was an INCREDIBLE song writer and crafted top to bottom great albums, plus the voice and chemistry with Primo

you're an idiot when it comes to understanding Slum or anything after 96 new york hip hop. i mean you think Outkast is "ok"

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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65. "People DO shit on him on OKP though..."
In response to Reply # 56


          

...not MOST but still, they exist and are not so few as to be irrelevant; I've read it several times over the years here and this thread is really no exception...

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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67. "RE: if you read. you'd see most of us love Guru"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

>and know he was an INCREDIBLE song writer and crafted top to
>bottom great albums, plus the voice and chemistry with Primo
>
>you're an idiot when it comes to understanding Slum or
>anything after 96 new york hip hop. i mean you think Outkast
>is "ok"


i don't like outcast at all... when did i say they were ok?? I do love slum.. but they were shitty MCs.. lots of great songs..but don't ever think those guys were talented MCs, Elzi never fit in because he was a beast, lol

  

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justin_scott
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59. "SV were nothing like Group Home"
In response to Reply # 51


          

.

************************************************************

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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66. "true, group home has an all-time CLASSIC album"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

  

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Ezzsential
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28. "boston stand up!!!!!!!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

guru is fiyah. nuff said!


CHECK OUT AND DOWNLOAD MY FREE BEATS @ WWW.SOUNDCLICK.COM/SYLANA
~i dont deal with colors including black n white ,letters or any morse codes or beams~

  

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stone_phalanges
Member since Mar 06th 2010
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Thu Mar-06-14 11:22 AM

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29. "RE: Has there ever been an emcee more overshadowed than Guru?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Guru wasn't that good a rapper. He wasn't bad or anything, but he wasn't great.

It was mostly the voice.

www.anwarmorse.com
https://www.instagram.com/thereal_anwarmorse99/

  

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astralblak
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37. "you have terrible taste/opinions on rap"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

turrble

  

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stone_phalanges
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49. "what was the last guru feature you got excited about"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

...or how about a freestyle. I'm not saying he didn't make dope music, or was bad at songwriting, but pure rap skills? Whatever dude, to each his own.

www.anwarmorse.com
https://www.instagram.com/thereal_anwarmorse99/

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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50. "Ru didn't do a lot of features"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

but he always brought it in album format, in fact in a way most rappers continuously fail at
he was a marathon rapper, the skill and potency in his work reveals itself over repeated listens and at length on albums

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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47. "Tommy...you go eat (c) Martin"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Shonuff
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31. "i knew who guru was before i knew who preem was"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

n/m

okARMY
------
www.twitter.com/bouncerockswing
www.youtube.com/easyacoustix

AMP Live of Zion I
Big KRIT's street team
Team Papoose
Rick Hughes
Bishop Lamont
MC Ren (NWA)
& good ppls are following me so far; dumping music there

  

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Crash85
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38. "Big Boi"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
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42. "My choice."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

I won't say I'm well-versed enough to say he's THEE most, but he does get the stepchild treatment often.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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43. "agreed and Prince Po too"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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micMajestic
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39. "It really all depends on how much you like "Step in The Arena""
In response to Reply # 0


          

Primo was good but he hadn't peaked yet, the production didn't have that timeless Primo feel yet. But you can argue that Guru might have been peaking around that time. Imo Guru had established himself as a top shelf mcee on there, after that album Guru started slowing the flow down sometimes and swagging out a little more. I could dig the slight change in approach because in my eyes he was already official. But if you started messing with Gangstarr on "Daily Operation" you might just think Primo's kinda carrying him.
_________________________________________

Lately I've had the strangest feeling.... that you were GOOOONNNNEEEE

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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41. "I agree with this"
In response to Reply # 39


          

I think that Guru was his best mc-wise by classic standards on "Step...". I noted when "Daily Operation" came out that he was slower, had simpler rhyme-schemes and even said some stuff that barely rhymed. However, I also think he became more personal flow/persona-wise on that record and onwise; on "Step..." he was kind of a NYC-battle-rapper, a bit more laidback and more in line with the "alternative"-trends at the time but still.

I also agree that Primo didn't really had his style down fully on "Step..." even if I guess there are hints; the strength of the beats rely more on the strength of the loops which, if you are familiar with the source-material, are pretty obvious (for the record, nothing wrong with that) for the most part.

On "Daily..." meanwhile was when he started to loop tiny fragments of riffs and breaks and just starting to sound more like *the* Primo even if it is still a bit transitional. Also, the drums on "Daily..." don't *knock* like they did later-I don't know if it was intentional due to their connection with so-called alternative/jazz-rap or if it was simply due to equipment/production-standards/studio/whatever. Either way, the sound isn't as "in your face" as the latter Primo-stuff and a bit more lo-fi. It's my favorite of their albums though...

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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52. "I'm with Woe, Guru just wasn't THAT good. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He isn't over-rated or under-rated, he is rated at just the right level.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it — whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer — opens the door to

  

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mrhood75
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53. "Link from the archives: songs where Guru went OWF"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Mar-07-14 02:46 PM by mrhood75

  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=100386&mesg_id=100386&listing_type=search

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Anonymous
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54. "Sometimes I don't know how I miss certain posts."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
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55. "Memphis Bleek?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Royce by Em is in the conversation as well.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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justin_scott
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60. "Treach is more overshadowed than Guru"
In response to Reply # 0


          

though I wouldn't say Treach is a better emcee, he's definitely dope.

************************************************************

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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63. "And how is Treach not a better emcee than Guru?"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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justin_scott
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68. "guess that depends on how you define emcee"
In response to Reply # 63
Sat Mar-08-14 10:28 PM by justin_scott

          

is Treach more lyrical? yes, but Guru was a far superior writer and one of the best topical rappers ever. so, for me, Guru was a more complete emcee with a greater body of work, and i'm not saying Treach wasn't topical, not saying Naughty doesn't have a great catalog....but...




also, must of been high when i responded. for some reason i thought "overshadowed" was "forgotten"

************************************************************

  

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mrhood75
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69. "Yeah, I was wondering about this part:"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          


>
>also, must of been high when i responded. for some reason i
>thought "overshadowed" was "forgotten"

I was about to ask,"Who exactly was Treach overshadowed by in NBN?" Not Kay Gee. Certainly not Vinnie. Glad you cleared it up.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Grand_Royal
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61. "I always thought Guru was good, not great"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Without the production on Gang Starr albums, I don't think I would rate him very highly. That's not a knock against him, there just aren't many (if any) hip-hop artists who had the level of production through 5-6 albums.

  

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Menphyel7
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70. "that's how most feel..ask them dudes where they was at when"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

Guru was making albums with Solar?

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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74. "most don't feel that way, cut that shit out"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

he's still a great no matter what any of you say, his Gang Starr work can't be denied by anybody including you 'what have you done for me lately' assholes
only people that feel that way are Primo stans, and even they know what time it is

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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quatto
Member since Jul 02nd 2010
435 posts
Sat Mar-08-14 08:21 PM

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64. "Guru nearly ruined most of the shit he was on"
In response to Reply # 0


          

he was always just barely listenable to me. plenty of cringeworthy lines from dude. he had a dope voice but i almost never liked what he did with it. just my opinion

  

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Menphyel7
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71. "Guru was so all time great how come yall ain't big up them albums withou..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Primo..them Solar albums

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Sun Mar-09-14 11:53 AM

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72. "He was past his prime at that point"
In response to Reply # 71
Sun Mar-09-14 11:53 AM by Nick Has a Problem..

  

          

Even greats like Cube, BDK, LL, etc have fallen off. It happens. I don't think anyone considers Guru an all-time great though.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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73. "nigga you ride for Pac and you talking about shitty beats?"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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