Okay, so, can't lie, when I first heard Nipsey's Bullets Ain't Got No Name Vol. 3, I was hyped. This was a mixtape that was very professional sounding, the flows and beat selections were great. And Nip had a presence.

In my head, him getting a major label release and moving on to rap stardom was almost AU-TO-MATIC. I then heard he got signed to Atlantic and later on that deal fizzled. He continues to put out mixtapes, but, he's nowhere near the household name I expected him to become.

Same can be said of Freddie Gibbs. i LOVE Baby Face Killa and Cold Day In Hell and "most" of the EPs he's done with Madlib. Flow is on point (though redundant) and he makes great choruses (as does Nip). Heard about the deal with CTE and rejoiced (although Jeezy does not have a great track record of handling signees very well or even getting an eventual release). That deteriorated.

Stalley? GREAT mixtape, IMMACULATE production. Gets signed to MMG then AUTOMATICALLY drops Rashad as his main producer and has been faltering ever since with no TRUE album release date in sight

Now, here's my first question: Where did these guys go wrong? With Stalley, IMHO, it started with the relinquishing of the majority of production duties from Rashad, which is more OBVIOUS. But, with Nip and Gibbs, I have to believe there has to be a trail of burnt bridges in their wake, but, I'm not up on hip hop news enough to have full clarity.

Second question: Is the day of the homegrown solo rapper dead? I've seen too many whose skills I've enjoyed (Bobby Creekwater, Stat Quo, Pretty Ugly, Dom Kennedy) either disappear completely or only release material sparsely.

It makes me kind of worried for newer cats with great potential like Chance The Rapper as they try to establish their brand.

Are there any clear, cut rules not to violate on the ascent so as to avoid a premature descent?

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

What I hear from my circle is that fam don't cuss at all so they can't rock with him. Ignorant, yes but that's what I hear. He also sounds awkward on some beats like he's having a hard time staying on beat. I dig dude though. MMG was a bad move IMO. He just doesn't fit in with that camp.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

>What I hear from my circle is that fam don't cuss at all so
>they can't rock with him. Ignorant, yes but that's what I
>hear. He also sounds awkward on some beats like he's having a
>hard time staying on beat. I dig dude though. MMG was a bad
>move IMO. He just doesn't fit in with that camp.

And, yes, he does have trouble riding some beats. But, he never exhibited that trait on the Rashad tracks.

But, that's a stupid ass reason NOT to like an artist.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

Stalley's Honest Cowboy was dope! He was working with Rashad again too. Sadly, I don't see him releasing a major album.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

>Stalley's Honest Cowboy was dope! He was working with Rashad
>again too. Sadly, I don't see him releasing a major album.

It was OK, but, when you compare it to Lincoln City Nights, it pales. The sequencing and the common musical theme on that release was AMAZING.

Honest Cowboy is just another slapdash mixtape release.

Was happy to see Quik and Rashad on there, though.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

but I thought he was gonna blow up off that Swangin song. I still don't get why that wasn't THEE song of last summer.

>but I thought he was gonna blow up off that Swangin song. I
>still don't get why that wasn't THEE song of last summer.

EVERYTHING on that SHAMES that Swagin song.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

Isn't as broad as it used to be. None of them are versatile enough to break out of their niche. They got picked up by top dogs of that market right before their own musical impacts started dwindling.

I also wonder about the signings in some cases. Signing to a clique vs. signing to a label is very different. The clique may dig your shit, but if the association can't put you on a label for a release.... I imagine a lot of the labels would prefer to have the top dogs,and weren't to thrilled about the prospects of their underlings.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>Isn't as broad as it used to be. None of them are versatile
>enough to break out of their niche. They got picked up by top
>dogs of that market right before their own musical impacts
>started dwindling.

But, if the top dog's career is already dwindling, why try to sign him when:
He may try to ask for a more favorable contract in comparison to a newbie who's just happy for that chain and no-interest loan known as an advance?

>I also wonder about the signings in some cases. Signing to a
>clique vs. signing to a label is very different. The clique
>may dig your shit, but if the association can't put you on a
>label for a release.... I imagine a lot of the labels would
>prefer to have the top dogs,and weren't to thrilled about the
>prospects of their underlings.

Do folks ACTUALLY sign to these cliques? Like, sign a contract? I always assumed that, with something like CTE or MMG, they have their own imprints, so, signing with them meant that your release would be coming out through that conduit.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

>But, if the top dog's career is already dwindling, why try to
>sign him when:
>He may try to ask for a more favorable contract in comparison
>to a newbie who's just happy for that chain and no-interest
>loan known as an advance?

To boost the top dog's exposure. The thing is that none of the top dogs are A&R's. It's all association shit. They sign who they think has the potential to raise their stature.

>Do folks ACTUALLY sign to these cliques? Like, sign a
>contract?

In a variety of ways yes. The clique could have a management company or even a production company. And in some cases an 'imprint'.

> I always assumed that, with something like CTE or
>MMG, they have their own imprints, so, signing with them meant
>that your release would be coming out through that conduit.

But if that imprint doesn't have a multi release contract with a label it's just an indy with no distro, even if they previously secured a deal with a label. An artist signs with them in hopes the affiliation will lead to a label distro deal for them. But at the end of the day those deals are based on the labels wanting the product not the association.



█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>>But, if the top dog's career is already dwindling, why try
>to
>>sign him when:
>>He may try to ask for a more favorable contract in
>comparison
>>to a newbie who's just happy for that chain and no-interest
>>loan known as an advance?
>
>To boost the top dog's exposure. The thing is that none of
>the top dogs are A&R's. It's all association shit. They sign
>who they think has the potential to raise their stature.

True. Although, I think Ross is not as guilty of this as a few others (Game, Jeezy, T.I.). He actually gets releases out and doesn't force them to forever sit on the backburner while he preps release after release (like a Busta or Mobb Deep back in the day).

>>Do folks ACTUALLY sign to these cliques? Like, sign a
>>contract?
>
>In a variety of ways yes. The clique could have a management
>company or even a production company. And in some cases an
>'imprint'.

Okay, didn't look at it from that angle. I kind of always thought there would be a separation of powers, but, this IS the music industry...

>> I always assumed that, with something like CTE or
>>MMG, they have their own imprints, so, signing with them
>meant
>>that your release would be coming out through that conduit.
>
>But if that imprint doesn't have a multi release contract with
>a label it's just an indy with no distro, even if they
>previously secured a deal with a label. An artist signs with
>them in hopes the affiliation will lead to a label distro deal
>for them. But at the end of the day those deals are based on
>the labels wanting the product not the association.

I.E., LABEL LIMBO

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

Gibbs stay burning a bridge so I think that hurts dude. As far as Stalley he just hasn't had one song that makes it mandatory that the label release an album. I've interviewed dude and he's a humble cat. I'm sure he's happy going around the world doing shows and getting some good money that way plus putting out little projects to keep his name out there.

Can't speak on Nipsey. Honestly I think for some artists it's just best to stay indie.

This post was paid for by the following.

www.twitter.com/13Rose
www.debunkthemyth.org
http://dashaunworld.wordpress.com/
www.mothergreen.com

Remember MJ The Great!
PSN: ThirteenRose

He KILLED his feature on Hi-Teknology 2.

>Gibbs stay burning a bridge so I think that hurts dude.

I think I may have read as much in a few passing headlines. Gotta play the game first before you can change it.

>As far as Stalley he just hasn't had one song that makes it
>mandatory that the label release an album. I've interviewed
>dude and he's a humble cat. I'm sure he's happy going around
>the world doing shows and getting some good money that way
>plus putting out little projects to keep his name out there.

True, but, soon enough, Ross is gonna cut that umbilical if he don't start earning his keep.

>Can't speak on Nipsey. Honestly I think for some artists it's
>just best to stay indie.

I agree. But, I think that, if you're gonna go the indie route, spend some of that dope and tour money you claim to have towards starting a label and putting out a veritable release. Something that can be found in stores, with decent packaging. That whole pop up shop idea he had was great to get the ball rolling on that release but you HAVE to follow through.

Honestly, I think a release on something like a Rhymesayers (maybe with Jake One at the helm) would help to kickstart Nip's career a lil bit and help his brick and mortar presence.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

Between him and Major Figgaz you couldn't tell me Philly wasn't going to take over everything. Both of those acts fizzled out. At least MF saw a release date. I don't know what happened with PU. He was in the same freshman class with Joell Ortiz. He's got some catching up to do.

This post was paid for by the following.

www.twitter.com/13Rose
www.debunkthemyth.org
http://dashaunworld.wordpress.com/
www.mothergreen.com

Remember MJ The Great!
PSN: ThirteenRose

with a healthy dosing of K-Jah aka the Curse of the Vampires station.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

!!!!!!!!!

This post was paid for by the following.

www.twitter.com/13Rose
www.debunkthemyth.org
http://dashaunworld.wordpress.com/
www.mothergreen.com

Remember MJ The Great!
PSN: ThirteenRose

He has a dedicated fanbase that will buy and album or two from him every year. I don't think Stalley or Nipsey have that yet.

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

at least with more "hood-based" hip hop fans in LA

he had the "hipsters" initially when he got a lil' blog hype, but they jumped ship once he didn't pander to them

* * * * =========
* * * * =========
* * * * =========
==============
==============

I don't see any of these guys as having stalled careers. They are releasing material, released music videos, toured, have a fan base, etc. Basically they are working artists. They've all released music recently and are receiving a fair amount of press. To the best of my knowledge none of them have to get jobs to support their music career at this point so I look at that as a success in itself. Now if you are talking about why they haven't taken it to another level of visibility I think that may boil down to none of them have that one signature song that either on an underground level or a mainstream level really stands out to people.

>Okay, so, can't lie, when I first heard Nipsey's Bullets
>Ain't Got No Name Vol. 3, I was hyped. This was a mixtape
>that was very professional sounding, the flows and beat
>selections were great. And Nip had a presence.
>
>In my head, him getting a major label release and moving on to
>rap stardom was almost AU-TO-MATIC. I then heard he got
>signed to Atlantic and later on that deal fizzled. He
>continues to put out mixtapes, but, he's nowhere near the
>household name I expected him to become.

I never really saw Rap stardom for Nipsey. That's few and far between artists in any genre that are having that true kind of stardom success. You can usually count them on one hand (as far as new artists go not the vets).

>Same can be said of Freddie Gibbs. i LOVE Baby Face Killa and
>Cold Day In Hell and "most" of the EPs he's done with Madlib.
>Flow is on point (though redundant) and he makes great
>choruses (as does Nip). Heard about the deal with CTE and
>rejoiced (although Jeezy does not have a great track record of
>handling signees very well or even getting an eventual
>release). That deteriorated.
>
>Stalley? GREAT mixtape, IMMACULATE production. Gets signed
>to MMG then AUTOMATICALLY drops Rashad as his main producer
>and has been faltering ever since with no TRUE album release
>date in sight
>
>Now, here's my first question: Where did these guys go wrong?
>With Stalley, IMHO, it started with the relinquishing of the
>majority of production duties from Rashad, which is more
>OBVIOUS. But, with Nip and Gibbs, I have to believe there has
>to be a trail of burnt bridges in their wake, but, I'm not up
>on hip hop news enough to have full clarity.
>
>Second question: Is the day of the homegrown solo rapper
>dead? I've seen too many whose skills I've enjoyed (Bobby
>Creekwater, Stat Quo, Pretty Ugly, Dom Kennedy) either
>disappear completely or only release material sparsely.

That's what I would be more concerned about...not releasing material on a regular basis or just completely disappearing from the scene is my definition of a stalled career. Dom Kennedy is out there, putting out music, releasing videos and receiving a lot of critical acclaim so I wouldn't include him in that mix of other artists you named.
>
>It makes me kind of worried for newer cats with great
>potential like Chance The Rapper as they try to establish
>their brand.

Chance is getting all kinds of press and positive attention so I don't think he has anything to worry about. He's got a core fan base, hipsters love him and I've even seen him recently on some significant late night shows so I feel like he's in a good space.
>
>Are there any clear, cut rules not to violate on the ascent so
>as to avoid a premature descent?

The only rule I would suggest to any of these artists to always follow is to stay busy.

>I don't see any of these guys as having stalled careers. They
>are releasing material, released music videos, toured, have a
>fan base, etc. Basically they are working artists. They've all
>released music recently and are receiving a fair amount of
>press. To the best of my knowledge none of them have to get
>jobs to support their music career at this point so I look at
>that as a success in itself. Now if you are talking about why
>they haven't taken it to another level of visibility I think
>that may boil down to none of them have that one signature
>song that either on an underground level or a mainstream level
>really stands out to people.

Well said. You actually phrased my original question better than I did. My main concern truly is the lack of visibility on the overground, commercial level.

>>Okay, so, can't lie, when I first heard Nipsey's Bullets
>>Ain't Got No Name Vol. 3, I was hyped. This was a mixtape
>>that was very professional sounding, the flows and beat
>>selections were great. And Nip had a presence.
>>
>>In my head, him getting a major label release and moving on
>to
>>rap stardom was almost AU-TO-MATIC. I then heard he got
>>signed to Atlantic and later on that deal fizzled. He
>>continues to put out mixtapes, but, he's nowhere near the
>>household name I expected him to become.
>
>I never really saw Rap stardom for Nipsey. That's few and far
>between artists in any genre that are having that true kind of
>stardom success. You can usually count them on one hand (as
>far as new artists go not the vets).

I'll have to disagree here with you. I definitely saw stardom for Nip. He has charisma, nice flow, "decent" enough content and was building a pretty sizable catalog along with a broadening fanbase. Don't know how to put it, be he had that "it" factor that I felt when I first heard Drake and, most recently, Chance.

And, I really expected him to have been the next from the west, then, almost out of nowhere, Kendrick took that spot (deservedly so).
>>Same can be said of Freddie Gibbs. i LOVE Baby Face Killa
>and
>>Cold Day In Hell and "most" of the EPs he's done with Madlib.
>
>>Flow is on point (though redundant) and he makes great
>>choruses (as does Nip). Heard about the deal with CTE and
>>rejoiced (although Jeezy does not have a great track record
>of
>>handling signees very well or even getting an eventual
>>release). That deteriorated.
>>
>>Stalley? GREAT mixtape, IMMACULATE production. Gets signed
>>to MMG then AUTOMATICALLY drops Rashad as his main producer
>>and has been faltering ever since with no TRUE album release
>>date in sight
>>
>>Now, here's my first question: Where did these guys go wrong?
>
>>With Stalley, IMHO, it started with the relinquishing of the
>>majority of production duties from Rashad, which is more
>>OBVIOUS. But, with Nip and Gibbs, I have to believe there
>has
>>to be a trail of burnt bridges in their wake, but, I'm not
>up
>>on hip hop news enough to have full clarity.
>>
>>Second question: Is the day of the homegrown solo rapper
>>dead? I've seen too many whose skills I've enjoyed (Bobby
>>Creekwater, Stat Quo, Pretty Ugly, Dom Kennedy) either
>>disappear completely or only release material sparsely.
>
>That's what I would be more concerned about...not releasing
>material on a regular basis or just completely disappearing
>from the scene is my definition of a stalled career. Dom
>Kennedy is out there, putting out music, releasing videos and
>receiving a lot of critical acclaim so I wouldn't include him
>in that mix of other artists you named.
>>
>>It makes me kind of worried for newer cats with great
>>potential like Chance The Rapper as they try to establish
>>their brand.
>
>Chance is getting all kinds of press and positive attention so
>I don't think he has anything to worry about. He's got a core
>fan base, hipsters love him and I've even seen him recently on
>some significant late night shows so I feel like he's in a
>good space.

I agree with your take on Chance's current place in his career, but, that "shiny new" feeling wears off pretty quick with the mainstream media and then them calls can quickly subside if you don't build on that initial wave. I kind of see that effect taking place with Action and Joey Badass.

Folks "might" have been hype off of the mixtapes and the obvious talent but eventually want to hear that OFFICIAL release and not a bunch of miscellany being dropped here and there.

>>Are there any clear, cut rules not to violate on the ascent
>so
>>as to avoid a premature descent?
>
>The only rule I would suggest to any of these artists to
>always follow is to stay busy.

I've I'm allowed to append a few words, I'd say: Stay busy, with a purpose.

Great example is Blu. That man STAYS busy, but, it's really in no real chosen direction. Or, in the production realm, the king of purposelessness, Madlib.

Both of these guys are uber talented but you don't feel like they're working towards any goal or end. And, they're both guilty of not always putting their best foot forward.

Another wonderful example was when Kanye was doing his weekly drops couple a years ago. It was with the eventual endgame of an album release. So, although you might have had like three quarters of the album before it's release, the excitement and the novelty of the idea helped to build hype for the release. And, that's why it didn't work out for any of the other producers that tried to follow suit, namely Swizz and Timbaland. They had no real aim with their weekly drops.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

across the board. Rock bands, R&B singers, etc. Even someone like Kendrick wasn't getting the major radio spin in LA that you would think would come with a home grown talent that has a Dre co-sign and an album that is selling well. With all of the radio consolidation that has taken place stations take a lot less chances and songs are testing well with women and other key demographics then they won't get any regular rotation.

>Well said. You actually phrased my original question better
>than I did. My main concern truly is the lack of visibility
>on the overground, commercial level.

It's great to have quality artist on a commercial level but not necessary. You have to remember sometimes it takes an artist until 3 albums or so into their career before they get that type of visibility. Jigga wasn't getting the type of mainstream radio play that he does now back in 96. It took him years to build up to that so it may eventually happen for these artists as well if they have a "Hard Knock Life" or "Big Pimping" type of hit.

>
>I'll have to disagree here with you. I definitely saw stardom
>for Nip. He has charisma, nice flow, "decent" enough content
>and was building a pretty sizable catalog along with a
>broadening fanbase. Don't know how to put it, be he had that
>"it" factor that I felt when I first heard Drake and, most
>recently, Chance.

I guess different strokes for different folks. There is nothing about Nipsey that stands out about him to me. He's not a great MC. He's not a particular great story teller. He doesn't write great songs. He's not a compelling personality and we've heard his story a million times already. A tall, lanky, crip with a nasal flow? Yeah been there done that.
>
> And, I really expected him to have been the next from the
>west, then, almost out of nowhere, Kendrick took that spot
>(deservedly so).

Kendrick had been grinding on the underground for years. I heard that dude like 6 years ago so that just goes to show you how long it can take for someone to really take off. To me Kendrick is unique in the way that Nipsey isn't. I thought that long before he ever blew up. He stood out to me even when I heard him on Jay Rock mixtapes. He's a great story teller, has a distinct voice and his whole style is much more relatable than Nipsey. There are way more "good kids in a madd city" than Rolling 60 crip type of dudes so Kendrick out of the gate has a broader amount of people that can relate to him. He's a regular dude with irregular skills.

>I agree with your take on Chance's current place in his
>career, but, that "shiny new" feeling wears off pretty quick
>with the mainstream media and then them calls can quickly
>subside if you don't build on that initial wave. I kind of
>see that effect taking place with Action and Joey Badass.
>
>Folks "might" have been hype off of the mixtapes and the
>obvious talent but eventually want to hear that OFFICIAL
>release and not a bunch of miscellany being dropped here and
>there.

I think you're expecting too much too soon from these guys. They are releasing music, touring and getting better. That's what they need to do. They don't need to drop one mixtape and then a year later be Kanye. Hell it took Kanye years to get to where he is in his career so you can't look at Joey and Action after a couple of years and ask why aren't they superstars yet. If they ever do become stars it's most likely going to be over a period of several years not some overnight thing.
>
>>>Are there any clear, cut rules not to violate on the ascent
>>so
>>>as to avoid a premature descent?
>>
>>The only rule I would suggest to any of these artists to
>>always follow is to stay busy.
>
>I've I'm allowed to append a few words, I'd say: Stay busy,
>with a purpose.
>
>Great example is Blu. That man STAYS busy, but, it's really
>in no real chosen direction. Or, in the production realm, the
>king of purposelessness, Madlib.

Blu is misguided and in my opinion doesn't really have the drive it takes to be special despite the special skills he possess on the mic. I don't know what you mean by Madlib having no purpose. This dude is a music machine and has made a career as an underground legend. People should be so lucky to have his career.
>
>Both of these guys are uber talented but you don't feel like
>they're working towards any goal or end. And, they're both
>guilty of not always putting their best foot forward.
>
>Another wonderful example was when Kanye was doing his weekly
>drops couple a years ago. It was with the eventual endgame of
>an album release. So, although you might have had like three
>quarters of the album before it's release, the excitement and
>the novelty of the idea helped to build hype for the release.
>And, that's why it didn't work out for any of the other
>producers that tried to follow suit, namely Swizz and
>Timbaland. They had no real aim with their weekly drops.

Well Swizz and Timbo aren't the artist that Kanye is. Both of those guys belong behind the boards and not as upfront artists.

>across the board. Rock bands, R&B singers, etc. Even someone
>like Kendrick wasn't getting the major radio spin in LA that
>you would think would come with a home grown talent that has a
>Dre co-sign and an album that is selling well. With all of the
>radio consolidation that has taken place stations take a lot
>less chances and songs are testing well with women and other
>key demographics then they won't get any regular rotation.
>

True. Not much can be said against that.
>
>It's great to have quality artist on a commercial level but
>not necessary. You have to remember sometimes it takes an
>artist until 3 albums or so into their career before they get
>that type of visibility. Jigga wasn't getting the type of
>mainstream radio play that he does now back in 96. It took him
>years to build up to that so it may eventually happen for
>these artists as well if they have a "Hard Knock Life" or "Big
>Pimping" type of hit.

Definitely Jigga's current level has been a long road, but, I can say that, after the success of "Ain't No Nigga" he definitely was given a "shot" with every single he dropped after that. But, as you kind of alluded to, he really didn't cross that plateau of almost complete commercial acceptance until the mega-hit that was "Hard Knock LIfe".

>I guess different strokes for different folks. There is
>nothing about Nipsey that stands out about him to me. He's not
>a great MC. He's not a particular great story teller. He
>doesn't write great songs. He's not a compelling personality
>and we've heard his story a million times already. A tall,
>lanky, crip with a nasal flow? Yeah been there done that.

We'll have to agree to disagree with this one.


>Kendrick had been grinding on the underground for years. I
>heard that dude like 6 years ago so that just goes to show you
>how long it can take for someone to really take off. To me
>Kendrick is unique in the way that Nipsey isn't. I thought
>that long before he ever blew up. He stood out to me even when
>I heard him on Jay Rock mixtapes. He's a great story teller,
>has a distinct voice and his whole style is much more
>relatable than Nipsey. There are way more "good kids in a madd
>city" than Rolling 60 crip type of dudes so Kendrick out of
>the gate has a broader amount of people that can relate to
>him. He's a regular dude with irregular skills.

I didn't really mean that Kendrick didn't have releases before GKMC. Matter of a fact, I had given Section 80 a chance and, although I liked his concepts, I couldn't get past his voice, which was too "mousey" for me. But, he has made adjustments in that area and I had to give it up for GKMC and now see him as one of the few REALLY doing it today.

And, of course there are more regular dudes than gangbangers, but, that's never stopped cats like Snoop, Game, 50, Jeezy, Wayne, etc.. from selling well. If the logic was that regular guys with great skill were de facto gonna get more play than the ultragangsters, then the rosters on the majors would look COMPLETELY different.


>I think you're expecting too much too soon from these guys.
>They are releasing music, touring and getting better. That's
>what they need to do. They don't need to drop one mixtape and
>then a year later be Kanye. Hell it took Kanye years to get to
>where he is in his career so you can't look at Joey and Action
>after a couple of years and ask why aren't they superstars
>yet. If they ever do become stars it's most likely going to be
>over a period of several years not some overnight thing.

Definitely not looking for overnight success. Most of the cats I've mentioned have quite a few mixtapes under their belt and have been internet darlings for quite some time. My point really is, you kind of have to capitalize off of that initial wave of hype as quickly as you can or another one may not come along UNLESS the "true" freshman release is that good.

With artists like Action and Joey, I fear that aforementioned release (whether independent or major label) may end up sounding too much like their mixtape releases to actually generate interest in those audiences that they've been unable to affect along with renewing interest in their early adopters.

>Blu is misguided and in my opinion doesn't really have the
>drive it takes to be special despite the special skills he
>possess on the mic. I don't know what you mean by Madlib
>having no purpose. This dude is a music machine and has made a
>career as an underground legend. People should be so lucky to
>have his career.

I'm with you on Blu. With Mad, I think it's just the lack of quality control. For example, with the Medicine Show releases. Those could have easily been whittled down to maybe 2-3 discs of listenable tracks rather than 10. I mean, it's great having that much material to siphon through, but, after a while, the overabundance of lackluster throwaways becomes overwhelming. I'm all about maximizing potential and maybe that's just not the aim of these artists. Or, as you and a few others have said in this post, maybe I need to lessen my standards.


>Well Swizz and Timbo aren't the artist that Kanye is. Both of
>those guys belong behind the boards and not as upfront
>artists.

That is true. They both were at their best when they were doing comps that highlighted their beats paired with lyricists other than themselves.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

What is it about Nipsey that makes you think he's a great rapper and a star?

>>I guess different strokes for different folks. There is
>>nothing about Nipsey that stands out about him to me. He's
>not
>>a great MC. He's not a particular great story teller. He
>>doesn't write great songs. He's not a compelling personality
>>and we've heard his story a million times already. A tall,
>>lanky, crip with a nasal flow? Yeah been there done that.
>
>We'll have to agree to disagree with this one.

>
>And, of course there are more regular dudes than gangbangers,
>but, that's never stopped cats like Snoop, Game, 50, Jeezy,
>Wayne, etc.. from selling well. If the logic was that regular
>guys with great skill were de facto gonna get more play than
>the ultragangsters, then the rosters on the majors would look
>COMPLETELY different.

The people you singled out are anomalies. Of course there have been huge stars who were the uber gansgter types but look at who you just named. Those are dudes who are or have been at the top of the game at one point in their career. That's like pointing to Little Brother and saying well Common and Kanye blew up so why didn't they? And where is Nipsey's "Deep Cover", "Up In Da Club" or "This Is How We Do It"? Those people all had huge songs that blew them up. Nipsey doesn't even have that on the underground level.

>Definitely not looking for overnight success. Most of the
>cats I've mentioned have quite a few mixtapes under their belt
>and have been internet darlings for quite some time. My point
>really is, you kind of have to capitalize off of that initial
>wave of hype as quickly as you can or another one may not come
>along UNLESS the "true" freshman release is that good.
>
>With artists like Action and Joey, I fear that aforementioned
>release (whether independent or major label) may end up
>sounding too much like their mixtape releases to actually
>generate interest in those audiences that they've been unable
>to affect along with renewing interest in their early
>adopters.
>
>>Blu is misguided and in my opinion doesn't really have the
>>drive it takes to be special despite the special skills he
>>possess on the mic. I don't know what you mean by Madlib
>>having no purpose. This dude is a music machine and has made
>a
>>career as an underground legend. People should be so lucky
>to
>>have his career.
>
>I'm with you on Blu. With Mad, I think it's just the lack of
>quality control. For example, with the Medicine Show
>releases. Those could have easily been whittled down to maybe
>2-3 discs of listenable tracks rather than 10. I mean, it's
>great having that much material to siphon through, but, after
>a while, the overabundance of lackluster throwaways becomes
>overwhelming. I'm all about maximizing potential and maybe
>that's just not the aim of these artists. Or, as you and a
>few others have said in this post, maybe I need to lessen my
>standards.

I think that's why Madlib loves being on Stones Throw. He's not a traditional artist looking for quality control or to fit inside some formula of how you release music.
>
>>Well Swizz and Timbo aren't the artist that Kanye is. Both
>of
>>those guys belong behind the boards and not as upfront
>>artists.
>
>That is true. They both were at their best when they were
>doing comps that highlighted their beats paired with lyricists
>other than themselves.
>

now being signed to a major may complicate that or make it a borderline L financially, not sure
but it seems like they are happy with being consistent C tier rappers getting a (maybe?) steady paycheck
nipsey just made a big splash with his $100 mixtape thing
stalley is obviously a MMG tax write off at this point, but he's releasing mixtapes and attending nice parties in miami i'm sure
not a fan of gibbs but i always hear his name associated with projects too

~~~~~~

>now being signed to a major may complicate that or make it a
>borderline L financially, not sure
>but it seems like they are happy with being consistent C tier
>rappers getting a (maybe?) steady paycheck
>nipsey just made a big splash with his $100 mixtape thing
>stalley is obviously a MMG tax write off at this point, but
>he's releasing mixtapes and attending nice parties in miami
>i'm sure
>not a fan of gibbs but i always hear his name associated with
>projects too

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

idk why folks ever expected anything from him.

<--- Big Baller World Order

Everyone you named is probably making a living off of their art. Its a new day in the music business

as Mos Def said YEEEEEARS ago
"This thing called rhyming no different from coal mining...."

They are working and getting paid well for it

These folks have fan bases that are willing to support them and I don't think the fact that they aren't in Best Buy or on Interscope is a gauge of their success or failure.

The money is in doing shows and monetizing your brand, and I think Nipsey, Gibbs, Stalley, Dom, etc have that ish down and are probably more than happy with their current and prospective situations

**********
I should put that in a song

@nategoodness
www.nategoodness.com

The avatar is old. And, no, that hat was not a groovy style back then, either.

>Everyone you named is probably making a living off of their
>art. Its a new day in the music business
>
>as Mos Def said YEEEEEARS ago
>"This thing called rhyming no different from coal mining...."
>
>They are working and getting paid well for it
>
>These folks have fan bases that are willing to support them
>and I don't think the fact that they aren't in Best Buy or on
>Interscope is a gauge of their success or failure.
>
>The money is in doing shows and monetizing your brand, and I
>think Nipsey, Gibbs, Stalley, Dom, etc have that ish down and
>are probably more than happy with their current and
>prospective situations

And, Macklemore is the PERFECT example of this. Independent ALL THE WAY. But selling albums like hot cakes. And, I know we can use that usual cop out of them being white and writing songs that cater to teeny boppers, but that would tremendously discount what they've accomplished.

First off, they took the money they made off of Thrift Shop and pushed the HELL out of Can't Hold Us, shooting an amazing video to go along with a really good song.

THAT'S where most black independent rap artists fall short. They won't take all this money that they're "supposedly" making and put it back into establishing their brand. Instead, we'll still get the same hood videos (which are much better in comparison to the Nick Quested ones from back in the day).

Shit, most of the time we won't even get a "proper" release from them. Just mixtape upon mixtape with a few of them getting an eventual lackluster physical release.

Mehn, Thrift Shop was the FIFTH single off of the Macklemore album. You know how much you have to BELIEVE in yourself and your project to put out a FIFTH single?!

I know I SHO AS HELL ain't gonna find those Freddie Gibbs or Nipsey Hussle mixtapes/albums on Target shelves outside of their hometowns.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

Macklemore actually did none of that... lol

They sold 100k first week... Warner Bros came in an bought into Macklemore Inc for X amount of dollars in return they took the singles to radio..

Don't be fooled...

They would like the Currensy model.. but guess what.. Currensy is on Warner Bros. and his releases before that were on Def Jam

Dom, Chance and Nipsey are in great positions. Nipsey will probably do a deal if they give him the terms he wants. Chance has about 6-8 to prove he can hang with the big boys and I dunno if Dom cares about super mainstream success. He could build a strong career as is with solid touring.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>Macklemore actually did none of that... lol
>
>They sold 100k first week... Warner Bros came in an bought
>into Macklemore Inc for X amount of dollars in return they
>took the singles to radio..
>
>Don't be fooled...

Did not know the whole story on this one. Happy to be fully informed.

>They would like the Currensy model.. but guess what.. Currensy
>is on Warner Bros. and his releases before that were on Def
>Jam

That is true. I guess Currensy's constant mixtape presence leads us to forget that he has had major label releases under his belt.

>Dom, Chance and Nipsey are in great positions. Nipsey will
>probably do a deal if they give him the terms he wants.
>Chance has about 6-8 to prove he can hang with the big boys
>and I dunno if Dom cares about super mainstream success. He
>could build a strong career as is with solid touring.

Time will definitely tell with each of these guys. But, truthfully, I'm hoping for the best as I do enjoy most of their releases.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

smfh

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

>smfh

And be shaking your head as if you said it first.

Now, if you had been the first, you would have gotten some props, but the second guy to deliver the message ain't got NO RIGHT to act all brand new.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

you're assuming I read all the way down as opposed to clicking reply to the foolishness.

"independent ALL THE WAY". lol

sheep. handle fits you

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

>you're assuming I read all the way down as opposed to
>clicking reply to the foolishness.

Ain't gotta be all that. Everyone BUT YOU is wrong once in a while.

>"independent ALL THE WAY". lol

Why you laughing out loud to yourself? You ain't got no friends to do that with?

>sheep. handle fits you

I don't know what I said that would make me sheep like, but, obviously you're baiting and throwing around insults that don't even fit what has transpired.

Also, the word remedial has more than one meaning. Try a dictionary sometime. Might even help your lyrical content a lil bit, but, that's a longshot.

Obviously, you play the role of the internet cat who's too cool and too smart to simply reply disagreeably WITHOUT all the teenage girl lingo (smh, lol, etc..) and truly unnecessary jabs.

But, your mother still loves you (she IS paying monthly for that bedazzled Iphone you use to spew your venom with, right?), even if I don't, so, please, carry on. Maker her proud...

All ya'll newbies be so COT DAMN quick to go at a brother's neck for simple ish... Calm down a bit. ESPECIALLY when that man (myself) ALREADY admitted he was misinformed.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

The Refill was a legitimately impressive tape, he was killing it over everything from "Trap Goin' Ham" (still, I think, the epitome of what that sound can accomplish) to "Kick in the Door". I legitimately thought he was the mixtape generation's T.I. to Gibbs' Kool G Rap but then all of a sudden he signed with MMG, put out The Overdose and The Diagnosis, became HELLA boring and now he's barely even recording anymore, might never be relevant again.


What the fuck, man? Is he a shit person to do business with? Did he get caught up in drugs or alcohol? What's the story on him?


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

They're all still making records and still doing shows. Don't seem like a stall to me...

I think the economics of the music industry is mirroring the economic state in society, the middle class is diminishing.

The age of the middle ground is pretty much gone in rap/hiphop. Either you are going to be a super super star, or your gonna be a successful grassroots grinding artist supplying your niche fanbase.

Gone are the days of a Redman, or a Ghostface, a Jadakiss or a Scarface where the middle ground is that high, Where you'd not be a "headliner" per say brand name wise and still sell damn near platinum album sales.

Cats like Gibbs, Nipsey, Dom..are touring with thier niche base on projects that they put out to keep thier brand going, making enough to probably live comfortable and to not have to work a 9-5. The importance of a urban radio hit has diminished with the Internet kicking radio's ass on all levels, so a strong grassroots fanbase like what Dom has can rival a mid tier level artist with a minor radio hit like a Yo Gotti, as far as tour money.

Thats really the best you gon get these days as a working rapper, Unless you score a huge pop hit.

they're all doing just fine between their product endorsements and touring deals.

again, it's guys like Pill that literally threw promising careers away that I'm more interested in/worried about.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>they're all doing just fine between their product
>endorsements and touring deals.
>
>again, it's guys like Pill that literally threw promising
>careers away that I'm more interested in/worried about.

He had one of the best verses in 2012 on A Thousand Poundz. Murked it something serious.

But, I think maybe after his breakup with MMG he's a little disillusioned. That or he got blacklisted.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

>I think the economics of the music industry is mirroring the
>economic state in society, the middle class is diminishing.
>
>The age of the middle ground is pretty much gone in
>rap/hiphop. Either you are going to be a super super star, or
>your gonna be a successful grassroots grinding artist
>supplying your niche fanbase.
>
>Gone are the days of a Redman, or a Ghostface, a Jadakiss or a
>Scarface where the middle ground is that high, Where you'd not
>be a "headliner" per say brand name wise and still sell damn
>near platinum album sales.
>
>Cats like Gibbs, Nipsey, Dom..are touring with thier niche
>base on projects that they put out to keep thier brand going,
>making enough to probably live comfortable and to not have to
>work a 9-5. The importance of a urban radio hit has diminished
>with the Internet kicking radio's ass on all levels, so a
>strong grassroots fanbase like what Dom has can rival a mid
>tier level artist with a minor radio hit like a Yo Gotti, as
>far as tour money.
>
>Thats really the best you gon get these days as a working
>rapper, Unless you score a huge pop hit.

You can be easily replaced. Akin to the NFL. The average NFL career is 3 years. You know why? Because, if you've had 3 years to prove yourself and have only proven yourself to be mediocre, there's a dude that's 3 years younger than you coming out of college RIGHT NOW who can at least give me the same level of mediocrity YOU'RE giving me. So, then you become easily replaceable. Also, with NFL rookie contracts being 4 years for drafted players and 3 years for undrafted these days, that's normally where the buck stops for most of the joe schmoe cats.

I see that syndrome being about the same for rap artists content with mediocrity in their careers. I think you can get by for about 5-7 years on that in rap, but within that time span, you'll see definite lessening of your fanbase as newer, younger talent enters the pool. And, since these cats haven't established themselves as TRUE vets with well known classics under their belts, as in the NFL, they are, once again, EASILY replaced.

Now, I don't say this with joy. I say this because I truly like the artists that I've listed and would like to see them have lengthy careers and hopefully dethrone some of the cats that are on top right now. But, sadly, I don't see that happening.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

i think your expectations are just too high. evidenced by statements like this :

>I truly like the artists that I've listed and would like to see them ...
>hopefully dethrone some of the cats that are on top right now.

there's a thread over in PtP where ppl are whining about chiwetel ejiofor not being as big a star as tom cruise or will smith. this kind of reminds me of that.

the guys you listed are likely never going to be drake or macklemore. that doesn't mean "their careers have stalled".

adjust your expectations.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

>i think your expectations are just too high. evidenced by
>statements like this :
>
>>I truly like the artists that I've listed and would like to
>see them ...
>>hopefully dethrone some of the cats that are on top right
>now.
>
>there's a thread over in PtP where ppl are whining about
>chiwetel ejiofor not being as big a star as tom cruise or will
>smith. this kind of reminds me of that.
>
>the guys you listed are likely never going to be drake or
>macklemore. that doesn't mean "their careers have stalled".
>
>adjust your expectations.

And you're probably right.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

http://thecombatjackshow.com/nipsey-hussle/the-combat-jack-show-nipsey-hussle-karen-civil-episode/

As for Stalley, his aesthetic doesn't really fit the mold of "star" to me...but then, who else is within MMG besides Ross who willed himself there and repeated it until it became true?

Streets won't let me chill.