Smart move or violating some unwritten hip-hop rule?

You be the judge

______________________________

http://i.imgur.com/vPwWwyo.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE1yHy37RFA

Havoc - The Infamous Producer Kit

After 20 years of crafting tracks, legendary producer Havoc of Mobb Deep is making a selection of his signature sounds available to producers everywhere. The Infamous Producer Kit features over 200 sounds used on classic Mobb Deep albums like The Infamous, from Havoc's earliest productions all the way up to the present day. While some producers keep their production secrets to themselves, Havoc is eager to spread the love. “It's a gift. Why harbor all these cool sounds? I'd rather give them to the next generation.” The kit includes various sounds, but there's a heavy emphasis on percussion. “Drums can make or break a song,” Havoc explains. “If the drums ain't right, your song won't even have a chance to be great.”

While eBay is littered with knock-off kits, Havoc is among the first producers to release the actual sounds used on classic recordings. “This is not just another kit,” he explains. “This is the original sounds from my machine. It's a piece of time. It's a piece of history.” Now producers everywhere can incorporate a piece of that history into their own projects. “Bottom line, this is something you want in your arsenal as a producer,” says Havoc. “You want the right tools in your toolbox.”

The physical package includes the full kit on a limited-edition USB flash drive and custom case, free poster, plus a booklet with exclusive production tips from Havoc. Flash drive also comes pre-loaded with Havoc's solo albums The Kush and 13, plus the first two volumes in his instrumental Beats Collection series. Digital edition includes all sounds in the kit, plus a PDF of Havoc's production tips. Digital editions will be delivered via email on December 16th

mind
--------
matter

but Havoc been corny for a long ass time so it's par for the course, get $$$$

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

been hangin out w/ illmind i see

--------------------------------------
https://smallprofessor.bandcamp.com

Think it's dope...

Aspiring producer.. fan of Hav.. and the classic tunes.. would be awesome to buy.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

I thought that finding/chopping/EQing your own drum sounds was part of the fun.

Guess it's just too much of a chore for these younger dudes, or they just don't have the ear.

LOL this reminded me of Illmind posting that fake story about "31 Ghosts" or whatever hacking his computer, stealing his "Blap Kits," and making an entire album from them.

Cornball shit.

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

Yeah, I don't really get why you would want it. It would be interesting to hear, but I wouldn't want to use it on my own stuff. Come up with your own shit.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

You do know that people are getting sued for drum sounds now right?? like you better chop some super obscure shit cuz they'll come after you for the typical breaks..

It's more than the sounds tho.. It's the drums from a certain song...

It's not different than cats wanting the multi-track for a marvin gaye song...

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>You do know that people are getting sued for drum sounds now
>right?? like you better chop some super obscure shit cuz
>they'll come after you for the typical breaks..

Yeah Fuchs is trying to cake off "Impeach The President" and shit, but anybody who digs has a few records with dope drums that haven't been used/over-used.

>It's more than the sounds tho.. It's the drums from a certain
>song..

....the same drums that originally came from another song. You want your drums to sound like "Shook Ones?" Cop that Daly-Wilson and get to work. Using tweaked samples from other producers just seems lame as hell to me.

>It's not different than cats wanting the multi-track for a
>marvin gaye song...

You have a point here, but from a pure sampling standpoint, it seems too far removed from the OG to be considered creative. Just my opinion.

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

Yea nah I feel you..

Think about it though. These kids didn't grow up on finding your own drums from an obscure break and tweaking them to make them 100% yours.

That isn't the culture of 2013. They can flip any source from any where and as long as it bangs it bangs....

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

if you want to get good at something, you study the greats and understand their techniques; just throwing out the rulebook to that degree doesn't help anybody really

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

but that was one of the lamest things ive ever seen

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

can't live off that Em placement forever

and his solo album this year was pretty good

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

These cats have built little legacies. They should be the ones getting paid off
of them. This is what we built Hip Hop for.

Why should corporations continue to be the ones eating off of us?

Time for the black man to get paid off all that too. *shrugs*

>These cats have built little legacies. They should be the
>ones getting paid off
>of them This is what we built Hip Hop for.
>
>Why should corporations continue to be the ones eating off of
>us.
>
>Time for the black man to get paid off all that too.
>*shrugs*

Quick to throw their legends by the wayside if they aren't doing their (the fans) bidding.


_________________________________________

Lately I've had the strangest feeling.... that you were GOOOONNNNEEEE

lots of corny ways to make money, gotta do whatcha gotta if you're not capable of doing what u used to do

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

serving ppl who would do that is corny

but lots of things are corny...

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

>“If the drums ain't right, your song won't even have a chance to be great.”
>

yes. both 9th and ye can disagree with Havoc on that statement. The funny thing is, Kanye has admitted to using other producers drums such as Dr. Dre's to make his beats.

>Kanye has admitted to using
>other producers drums such as Dr. Dre's to make his beats.

Interesting.

in the middle of that rambling outro, but I haven't head it in a while so I might be making that shit up.

Anyways, he basically used the drums from Xxplosive on Chronic 2001 on a handful of the early songs he produced, like This Can't Be Life for example...

(And, while we're on it didn't he also take the drums from Let's Ride for Run this Town?)

----

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

it's interesting to know where cats get their shit from? Fun facts, etc...
I enjoy 'em. Nothing more or less.

http://hiphopdrumsamples.com/collections/all-products/products/the-official-9th-wonder-drum-kit-9th-wonder-treats

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

its a smart move on his part because somebody's gonna buy it.
For the customers, he did do it different than most kits because he has it as flash drive including a couple albums and the poster and all. I don't think any aspiring producers should want to use another producers sounds, but if they are only using it for drums, I don't think anyone would be able to tell they got them from Havoc's kit.

Producer's drums.

Is it impossible to take another producer's drums and flip them a new way?

Because I'd like to think I'm not *THAT* type of person.

But then I think of all the times I heard people use Premier's drums and I thought it was wack.

I'm very torn on this issue.


``i know you are fake. . . 'cause man, i'm the same.``
"setting #10." http://bit.ly/1aTsddO"
"for mbs." http://bit.ly/1jH5FCa
"new life." http://bit.ly/1cImKJg
"unspecified psychosis." http://bit.ly/HgJRBl
"untitled 7." http://bit.ly/1fRetYQ

>But then I think of all the times I heard people use Premier's
>drums and I thought it was wack.
>

If you could tell that they were using Primo's drums then they didn't really flip them in the first place.

I don't think any amount of flipping could cover up where they were getting it from.

Exhibit A:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v55hrTDh2es

Exhibit B:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFK54kqc6zk


``i know you are fake. . . 'cause man, i'm the same.``
"setting #10." http://bit.ly/1buMHti
"for mbs." http://bit.ly/1jH5FCa
"new life." http://bit.ly/1cImKJg
"unspecified psychosis." http://bit.ly/HgJRBl
"untitled 7." http://bit.ly/1fRetYQ

so I wouldn't count that since it's an ubiquitous break, and the second one aren't Primo's drums

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

See that's the thing I don't like about this whole idea of using drums from other producers.

Are people in this post honestly listening to songs thinking "yo this shit is absolute flames!!....hold up...nah yo....they jacked those drum sounds from Dilla...I can't fuck with this yo...turn that shit off man"

People always get caught up on how their opinion validates their music knowledge.

You're not better for living by a sen of hip-hop rules that you made up.

You aren't better because you can recognize a drum sound.

That shit is stupid.

This is hip-hop...an art made from taking and flipping.

I understand as a produce you want to hide shit and I agree that it should be flipped but what works is what works.

If you made a dope song by taking drums from ?uest...fuck it. Make then sound fresh in a new arrangement.

"Am I really THAT kind of person?"

I'd like to think no, but. . .


``i know you are fake. . . 'cause man, i'm the same.``
"setting #10." http://bit.ly/1buMHti
"for mbs." http://bit.ly/1jH5FCa
"new life." http://bit.ly/1cImKJg
"unspecified psychosis." http://bit.ly/HgJRBl
"untitled 7." http://bit.ly/1fRetYQ

I wasn't speaking about you really it just came off that way because of the thread sequence.

But there definitely are people like that.

they're just sounds...you should be able to make them do whatever you want to.

i would personally never want to make a beat with 'that snare from "shook ones"' but who knows what effect pitching it up, down, truncating it, more reverb, etc will have? then you could layer it with other sounds...the possibilities are endless

--------------------------------------
https://smallprofessor.bandcamp.com

>i would personally never want to make a beat with 'that snare
>from "shook ones"' but who knows what effect pitching it up,
>down, truncating it, more reverb, etc will have? then you
>could layer it with other sounds...the possibilities are
>endless

i've used the hi hat too. *shrugs*

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

I think it would be corny/violating to make a dark boom bap beat with the shook ones snare, but using it as-is in a some other kind of pop or electronic context would be cool.

Bandcamp/IG/FB/Twitter: @hecticzeniths

>they're just sounds...you should be able to make them do
>whatever you want to.
>
>i would personally never want to make a beat with 'that snare
>from "shook ones"' but who knows what effect pitching it up,
>down, truncating it, more reverb, etc will have? then you
>could layer it with other sounds...the possibilities are
>endless


the only reason imo to go after some specific person's drums is because of the way they've recorded/mixed them, to save some layering effort when it comes to shitty quality/low bitrate samples. otherwise you can make a drum sound like almost anything, so all of the talk of drum sound politics is really ridiculous.


i also wonder why anybody would pay $70 for a drum cd lol

_

shakin your block with a 6 million dollar bop

_

www.davidevanmcdowell.com

havoc's drums dont bang anyways. engineers replaced his shit on infamous

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

at an intermediate or advanced level?

(i'd like to see where this goes)

--------------------------------------
https://smallprofessor.bandcamp.com

``i know you are fake. . . 'cause man, i'm the same.``
"setting #10." http://bit.ly/1buMHti
"for mbs." http://bit.ly/1jH5FCa
"new life." http://bit.ly/1cImKJg
"unspecified psychosis." http://bit.ly/HgJRBl
"untitled 7." http://bit.ly/1fRetYQ

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

And if you're getting at what I think you're getting at.....I'd agree. People who actually make hip hop music would be less likely to criticize this than fans imo.

I find the same thing about guitar fans. It's usually the non-players that subscribe to some sort of traditional code related to authenticity and/or integrity.

It's always kind of confused me when hip hop fans started getting so rigid in these rules/codes of conduct. During the early 90's...i spent so much time defending the artistry of hip hop and sample production techniques to other musicians. It seems like the arguments made by the hip hop 'code' advocates here are so similar to the ones that dismissed hip hop as a legitimate style of music 20 years ago.

Stuff like 'You can't sample a break beat that's been used by another producer...that's stealing'. How far off is that argument from the idea that any form of sampling is stealing to begin with?

foh... nobody gives a fuck about that type of shit anymore. if you make a dope song you make a dope song. ain't nobody cross-examining snares other than disgruntled producers, hiphop nerds, and a few cornball engineers w/ too much time on their hands.

ya'll really need to stop this shit.

◦◦◦
http://oi40.tinypic.com/2enp550.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iQBdCzZIftHZ2.gif

ppl having opinions really bother u that much?

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

I mean, imagine the Edge from u2 selling presets for his guitar sound.


``i know you are fake. . . 'cause man, i'm the same.``
"setting #10." http://bit.ly/1buMHti
"for mbs." http://bit.ly/1jH5FCa
"new life." http://bit.ly/1cImKJg
"unspecified psychosis." http://bit.ly/HgJRBl
"untitled 7." http://bit.ly/1fRetYQ

>I mean, imagine the Edge from u2 selling presets for his
>guitar sound.
>

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/ProductSpotlight/Tone-Tips/how-to-capture-the-edges-tone/


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

But yeah, in general, come up with something your own.


``i know you are fake. . . 'cause man, i'm the same.``
"setting #10." http://bit.ly/1buMHti
"for mbs." http://bit.ly/1jH5FCa
"new life." http://bit.ly/1cImKJg
"unspecified psychosis." http://bit.ly/HgJRBl
"untitled 7." http://bit.ly/1fRetYQ

~~~~~~

.....and honestly if its packaged right, with attention to detail and gives a look into the making of some of his classic albums ..the kit is kind of a collectors item ..something a mobb deep fan in general might want

On The Infamous....the reason the EQ ing was so great was because Tip worked his magic all over that record.

Not to say that HOE was better than Infamous or the drums knocked the same (would have to really go back and listen) or that Tip didn't help out but HOE was definitely a well produced album.

I don't think we need to take credit from Havoc just to big up Tip.

Not to mention, Havoc was like 18-20 when he did Infamous.

always figured they brought him in once Hav ran out of samples

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

Hell On Earth:

Mixed By – Ken Ifil* (tracks: 14), Mario Rodriguez (tracks: 1 to 7, 10, 13, 15), Mobb Deep (tracks: 1 to 7, 10, 13 to 15), Rich Travali (tracks: 11), Tony Smalios (tracks: 8, 9, 12)

The drums smack so much harder on The Infamous. HOE was dope but it's not close IMO.

Instagram: ascensionmusic

HOE was levels below Infamous. Especially if we talking about drums

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

might be one of the best displays of drum programming/drum selection in hiphop history

I made it very clear that Infamous is the better album and that the drums were better.

My point was that we constantly try to knock artists to big up other artists.

People act like Havoc is some kind of half ass producer.

So when he was 18 he got some help from one of the greats on touching up his drums...I don't see that as a knock.

And I mentioned Hell On Earth as an example of Hav also being able to produce on his own.

there is NO magic worked on HOE. and you even said youd have to go back and listen to see if the drums knock the same lol. FOH

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

My point is Havoc has produced dope records outside of Infamous.

...as a believer in general logic:http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2860669&mesg_id=2860669&page=#2860916

Dude *clearly* made his point regarding the drums and nothing else. So did everyone else who responded... except you...

"Not to say Hell On Earth was better or the drums knocked the same"

How did he clearly say one thing yet I didn't LOL

Havoc is releasing samples of ALL of his drum sounds correct?

Not just Infamous. Yet his response made it seem as though "Havoc ain't shit" and that Tip is the sole reason Havoc is tied to anything of quality.

Because I didn't see the need to bring Tip into this at all I asked a simple question.

And don't act like we don't shit on artists to big up another all the time in The Lesson.

And that's what his reply hinted at.

I just was making a point that Havoc isn't in my top 10 but he has produced some great hip-hop with and without Tip.

What's so hard to understand about that?

EVERY response-including the OG post-was about the drums in one way or another. That you read the OG post as someone shitting on Havoc as a producer in order to big up Q-tip is on you;he *clearly* mentioned the drums, not the samples or anthing else...

EDIT:And of course, the reason I'm invested in this post at all is because I too didn't care for the drums on "Hell..." (there are other problems too there though) compared with the predecessor. However, even that doesn't change a thing...

The post is about Havoc putting together a set for you to purchase drums.

The response of "people forget Q-Tip is the reason Infamous knocked" is a nothing but a way to shit on Havoc.

What does Tip have to do with this?

Even if he said "That would be dope to get those drums Tip helped out with on Infamous would be better.

And people on here somehow turn into drum masters because they like Dilla or some shit.

Havoc's drums are legit and Hell On Earth is a dope album.

And guess what the poit of this entire thing is...if you didn't like his drums 100%, he's making them available to you to EQ the way Tip did.

then you bring dilla into it?

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

I didn't bring Dilla into it in reference to the product Havoc was selling.

I mentioned him to pull the card of so-called drum afficianados on these boards.

It's all good though...

Ppl's love for that album at the time baffled the shit outta me lol.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

More from a fan/enthusiast perspective tho.

I probably wouldn't make beats to show off/give away using his drums (unless it was some kinda tribute thing).

But I don't think I'm alone in fooling around with samples my idols used and 1, trying to remake it in the name of learning and 2, trying to flip it differently for fun. Granted these are probably just hits/stabs rather than loops, but same kind of idea.

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

http://blap-kits.myshopify.com/

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

On the one edge, I don't see nothin' wrong wit' Hav puttin' his Kits out there as memorabilia and/or tools for others that are so inclined...

In the proverbial sense, zooming away from the leaf and taking a panoramic view at the *forest, I see nothin' wrong with a Bruh rightfully maximizing his profits from Black Art so long as he didn't compromise Black Art in an ethno-cultural socio-economic sense(as someone alluded above, before any outsider and/or out-group entity takes snake-like avail of our art-forms, WE,.....the progenitors of this art, should get 1st pick at the fruits harvested from our cultural ingenuity)....< <from that vantage point, Hav......gwan 'n get dat loot Sun!


NOW.....on the OTHER edge of the Katana.....





...Ninjaz 'posta matriculate/gather/archive/discover they *own drums Sun!


STRAIGHT. LIKE. DAT.



I 'member when I cold took an entire year off of writin' rhymes to dig in the crates and amass my drum-kits, gatherin' snares, kicks, rides, hi-hats, cabasas, ngomas, clave's, rimshots...etc from my own respective sources so as to cultivate my own respective percussive identity as a beatsmith/producer so dat I could rest assured dat my sound was, indeed,....MY SOUND, ya dig. Few things can match the honor of havin' anotha beatsmith ask you, "Yo Sun, where did you get that snare from?"....and being able ta sip your brew and answer, "Thas my little secret, muhfukka!".....LOL.

...so I know my fellow beatsmiths in here know what I'm sayin'...so on that side of the blade, and maybe its the old-school boom-bap B-boy in me, ...but I feel some kinda way about ninjaz downloading kits instead of customizing their own kit-base through diggin' and finding that jewel that other shinobi might not've peeped yet, nahmeanz.

That mighta been loquacious but I'm passionate about dis HipHop shit, Sun!

https://chriswind.bandcamp.com/track/massage

"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African"
Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!

You could take your stance about digging in crates looking for an assortment of sounds and turn the tables on it. Something like this:

Nowadays...people don't want to spend the time and training it takes to engineer really good sounds. We used to spend hours designing a proper recording room....building it....installing sound insolation....experimenting with different drum sets and microphones....painstakingly eq'ing, compressing/limiting.....then perfecting the actual performance. Now you just got some kid who's gonna sift through old records and just take those sounds we spent so much time on and use them for their own work. But they will never really have their 'own sound' because they're not building from the bottom up.

I certainly wouldn't advocate a position like this...but you have to admit it uses the exact same logic that you are.

...when we contextualize HipHop as an electronic sample-based art thriving on sampling original source material, then kaleidoscopically juxtapositioning said samples with other non-related sample-data elements to create something extra-original, your microcosmic paradigm becomes obsolete.

However small it is, there is, in fact, a clear distinction between:

1) sampling an original source and subsequently tweeking said source's idiomatic quality to make it your own...

versus

2) sampling a *post-tweeked -sample- of an original source in which the post-tweeked idiomaticism is the exclusive template that you base your own platform on void of any subsequent adulteration to *initialize the post-tweeked source as your own, ya dig....

https://chriswind.bandcamp.com/track/massage

"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African"
Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!

The tables can be turned here. This argument you make:

..when we contextualize HipHop as an electronic sample-based art thriving on sampling original source material, then kaleidoscopically juxtapositioning said samples with other non-related sample-data elements to create something extra-original, your microcosmic paradigm becomes obsolete.


Can provide the justification for what you say here:

These arguments are all interchangeable though.

Suppose a young producer uses a kick drum from Havoc's kit...grabs an assortment of other samples to complete his set....then grabs a bunch of instrument snippets what have you. Makes a great song. What's the problem again? He's making something new with pre-recorded source material.

This whole thing is reducible to questions of authenticity. IMO, it's all dogmatic. People have fallen in love with the 'process' and it's a symbolic gesture. But the initial artistic decision to amalgamate samples found via digging through crates was practical in nature....a pragmatic method...not a symbolic one.