I'm of the belief that for the most parts visuals are really just distractions from the music. Which isn't to say I don't have my fair share of favorite visual music tie-ins, but in this day and age those visuals have become so much more important than the music.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

And it's about 32 years too late anyway.

And where do we draw the line at "visuals"? Does it include live performances? Is it better to listen to the music itself on its own or does the visual accompaniment of watching the musician perform distract from that too?

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

>And where do we draw the line at "visuals"? Does it include
>live performances?

You're talking about watching artists perform though. I was writing about artists adding visuals to their performances which I've concluded are mere distractions from the actual performances. And clever ones at that because if the visuals are good and engaging they imply that the music being performed is on par when in fact...


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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

posted this

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2856906&mesg_id=2856906&page=#2857261

then clicked out and saw this thread. Then clicked back over to the other to copy the link and saw Hood's response. Then saw Hood's response here.

But yeah. The concept of 'a great video' or 'one of the best videos ever' is one that's largely lost on me.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2844181&mesg_id=2844181&listing_type=search#2845117

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

I've never been to a lot of shows with a lot of stage craft and/or video type shit going on. I remember seeing CSN around 1990 and a huge ship rigging dropped onto the set during 'wooden ships' or 'wind on the water' and the crowd went crazy and I thought it was super cheezy.

One of the things about video in live music is that it requires a coordination that removes some of the spontaneity that I enjoy about music. People rave about Pink Floyd's live show, but even when I was into their music more the idea about watching a movie or laser show or flying balloon pig to live music wasn't as exciting to me as watching musicians play.

I've never seen a liquid light show in person but - without thinking too deeply about it, or doing drugs - see how that amplified the psychedelic experience without distracting from the music. The fact that a show was basically live and improvised probably has something to do with it.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

I don't think the world is worse off for it to be honest. Id also argue we are all a bit too young to really not understand before visuals, and I am not necessarily referencing MTV.

I don't think it's coincidence the acts we hold in reverence here before the video/internet era usually have some sort of materialistic thing going for them beyond the music...be it looks, style, or a great background story that makes them seem more mythical then Bob mowing his lawn down the block.

In response to:

> Id
>also argue we are all a bit too young to really not understand
>before visuals, and I am not necessarily referencing MTV.

I think it's about media literacy. Understanding the impact of the visual vs. the impact of the music, and acknowledging what you're at the table for. So much is put on music based on the visuals. Reading reviews today even all the language is describing visual things which sound *AMAZING* yet don't exactly translate to a musical reality.


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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

in fact the whole visual propaganda wing of the rap industry has had a significant impact on why image is ultimately superior to substance in the genre as a whole

garbage music

that said, the *good* kind of visuals are actual musicians doing actual performances of their actual music

like the bonus dvd on the Miles Live In Europe 1969 set, very cool stuff to watch those guys & the energy they play with & how the music coming out reflects the physical actions

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

>I'm of the belief that for the most parts visuals are really
>just distractions from the music. Which isn't to say I don't
>have my fair share of favorite visual music tie-ins, but in
>this day and age those visuals have become so much more
>important than the music.

I'm sympathetic to this general argument b/c I think - not unlike Austin, I don't think - that we've forgotten how to listen to and appreciate music on its own, without all of the trappings of consumerism and over-stimulation.

BUT

There's also the risk of fetishing music-in-and-for-itself, as if a piece of recorded music is a finite object that exists in a sensory deprivation chamber and can only *really* be experienced as such. When we all know on a basic experiential level that music is perhaps the most commutative of the arts, that the shape and meaning of a piece of music can shift in different contexts, and that a piece of music exists far beyond the notes on a page or the soundwaves on a recording. This is not unique to music, but the portability of music today makes it the most compelling example of the openness of art.

The critique shouldn't be against visuals as a whole. Perhaps we should be thinking about how visuals do and do not work as aspects of a musical experience.

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

>There's also the risk of fetishing music-in-and-for-itself, as
>if a piece of recorded music is a finite object that exists in
>a sensory deprivation chamber and can only *really* be
>experienced as such. When we all know on a basic experiential
>level that music is perhaps the most commutative of the arts,
>that the shape and meaning of a piece of music can shift in
>different contexts, and that a piece of music exists far
>beyond the notes on a page or the soundwaves on a recording.
>This is not unique to music, but the portability of music
>today makes it the most compelling example of the openness of
>art.
>
>The critique shouldn't be against visuals as a whole. Perhaps
>we should be thinking about how visuals do and do not work as
>aspects of a musical experience.

I think I'm critiquing the fact that after decades of it, the experience is becoming less and less a testament to the music.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Which is why I make it a point to listen to a song alone first to determine its quality, then immerse myself in the visuals and whatever else comes along with it.

Not that I expect anyone else to do this...

>I'm of the belief that for the most parts visuals are really
>just distractions from the music.

Let's take it further.

Lyrics are just distractions from music too, and the importance assigned to them has greatly diminished the public's ability to even HEAR (let alone appreciate) music.

Your move.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

lyrics frequently ruin the ability to enjoy music

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

>>I'm of the belief that for the most parts visuals are
>really
>>just distractions from the music.
>
>Let's take it further.
>
>Lyrics are just distractions from music too, and the
>importance assigned to them has greatly diminished the
>public's ability to even HEAR (let alone appreciate) music.
>
>Your move.

1) the voice is the first instrument, though of course voice doesn't imply lyrics
2) the majority of visuals are created after the music has been completed versus lyrics being an integral part of the song making process (when one is making lyrical music)


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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

separate from when Darryl and Doc (bassist, guitarist) and a drummer (not Earl - Earl came in with HR after the music was done) put the music together.

I'm sure that wasn't the only time that occured in music history.

The Red Hot Chili Peppers work almost the same way. The musicians bring the music to Anthony after they put it together.

of course there are exceptions. in the rhcp example though the music was complete with the vocals even if the instrumentation was done separately.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

College radio plays challenging music where the only visuals that a listener experiences while listening to college radio can be whatever's in the listener's view (or if the listener is listening to college radio in a room, then listener can listen with his or her eyes closed).

yes, I appreciate a good amount of music I hear on college radio.

I just mentioned college radio 'cause if people thought I was referring to pop radio............then......*predictable responses*

because the thread makes no sense, since visual been around forever.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

and visual and MJ do go hand in hand.

he changed the game. you never answered the question though?

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

>and visual and MJ do go hand in hand.

I acknowledged the connection in a link to another thread you overreacted to in a reply to someone above.

>he changed the game. you never answered the question though?

No I'm really coming at Lionel Richie for the "Dancing on the Ceiling" and "Hello" videos.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

because those is fighting words. Hello was a gangster video i use to that phone part in the video when a girl called my crib back in the day.

Lionel got hits, jewelry

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills