piggybacking off this post:

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2849537&mesg_id=2849537&listing_type=search#2849619

I know Guru handled the engineering on TMS but that's the one aspect of
it that I really didn't care for, he cleaned up 9th beats to the point of making them sound just like anything else at the time
a lot of the charm of those LB records is the way they sound, and a lot of that character was lost on the next album
The Listening sounds a lot better to me, but then again I don't equate 'clean' with 'superior'
also 9th hadn't settled in as a producer yet and the sample choices and chops weren't as uniform, making for a more varied palette of sounds on their first album
what say you?

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

If he meant raw/gritty/less polished, I can understand that....but that doesn't make it flawed.

The beats on the Listening are dope to me.

But I liked that mixtape sound they had back then with their music.

That raw sound.

That was dope as hell.

Flawed. lol.... c'mon, son.

We see through all that boo boo like it's ghost shit... (c) Quelle Chris

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
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the raw 'non-processing' of throwing samples in fruity loops (what ya put in is what ya get out) versus the seasoned engineer used to mixing beats from the tightly processed sampling device such as the Akai MPC 2000 XL.

Didn't questlove bag on 9th's FL high hats by saying they sounded like bursts of windex sprays? lol

I just thought about how that sounds and lol....damn.

We see through all that boo boo like it's ghost shit... (c) Quelle Chris

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>the raw 'non-processing' of throwing samples in fruity loops
>(what ya put in is what ya get out) versus the seasoned
>engineer used to mixing beats from the tightly processed
>sampling device such as the Akai MPC 2000 XL.
>

FL and MPCs aren't different in that manner-in fact you can process more in a DAW than you can in any MPC, including the new ones


>Didn't questlove bag on 9th's FL high hats by saying they
>sounded like bursts of windex sprays? lol
>

he said he normally likes tight hi hats but loves how 9th's sound like spray bottles (he was mainly talking about Speed)
>

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

>FL and MPCs aren't different in that manner-in fact you can
>process more in a DAW than you can in any MPC, including the
>new ones
>

it makes PLENTY of sense if 9th wasn't USING the processes which i could bet my house that he didn't judging by the sonics. Remember, those processes have to be manually enabled...especially using FL 4 or 5 which was the latest edition circa the time of "The Listening" and before.

anything sampled thru an MPCs contains a certain digital warmth and crisp that was very distinct. the special part of the MPC sound proccessor was thast it could differentiate and accentuate high, mid, and lo frequencies (I have to look up the exact specs..i used to have them). This also goes for the SP1200...in fact, more so the SP1200 because DAW's cannot easily duplicate that warmth and crisp that machine produced.

you don't just drop a sample in FL, you have a copy of the sample you recorded or loaded that you manipulate
the sound you get in FL depends on a lot of different things, just like in a MPC your sound depends on your equipment chain, mixer settings, source material, state of repair your machine is in, etc.

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

>you don't just drop a sample in FL, you have a copy of the
>sample you recorded or loaded that you manipulate
>the sound you get in FL depends on a lot of different things,
>just like in a MPC your sound depends on your equipment chain,
>mixer settings, source material, state of repair your machine
>is in, etc.

okay...so you do support what I was saying regarding enabling chains, mixer settings, etc in FL.

all I was just saying is that 9th didn't enable these chains enough to clean up that rawness in the tracks.

AND what i'm saying is if he ran those same samples and tried to recreate ANY of the FL beats (especially) thru the MPC raw, it would have a different feel sonically.

MPCs, Sp1200s, Rolands, EMUs, and other hardware all have sampling process engines that differ from one another in some way or form. Warmth, punch, and bit rate changes are added to any raw sample. Though it maybe slight, FL aint processing any sample like that unless you MAKE the settings to do so. People have tried to emulate that real SP1200 sound on DAWs like FL and Maschine, but the shit aint easy at all to do so.

and I've never heard a convincing facsimile
but I was misunderstanding what you were saying in your post it seems

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

I was thinking to myself, damn..you of all cats should know better than me! lol

I think one of the reasons that album went over so well is because it sounded less processed and more homegrown

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

in the year 03?? everything was overpolished and processed. the most underground of the underground joints coming out wasn't that raw at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CMCKCEyLeM

9th could have cleaned those hats up if wanted to. The appeal of it was the rawness. If you chop a hat from a drum break, you are taking all of the reverb and whatever effects it had from the sampled record. The DAW isn't going automatically phase out the 'air' after the hat sound. Hence, you get the spray bottle effect.

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whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

FL 3.5 to be exact

well i find this odd from anyone who's usd it: "(what ya put in is what ya get out)"

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whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

all i was getting at is u can do a lot w/ FL

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whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

>all i was getting at is u can do a lot w/ FL

oh no doubt you can lot. Per my reply (#10) all of EQing has to be enabled and parameters manually set. You could create templates from there.

Not saying you can't or don't have to do that with MPC produced beats, but there is definitely a sonic difference between raw sampling in FL and raw sampling on the MPC hardware.

All i could remember back then was all the hoopla about how hip hop production purists bashed FL...and then a cat named 9th came along and shattered that standard of thought. Of course plenty of cats were doing beats on FL waay before the rise of Little Brother. I remember some FL using cats having a more dynamically cleaner sound than 9th back then, but Little Brother, as a whole, had the total package enough to be recognized.

dayum I miss when 9th took time out to program those dynamic basslines...

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NEW Edo.G album FreEDOm coming soon!!!

you didn't hear too many baselines after The Minstrel Show and early beat tapes

and add all the memories of seeing these dudes rock small spots before anyone really knew them.

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Pulled it up on YouTube and The Get Up is missing from the full album version that's on there. That was one of my favorite songs on the whole album. Did they actually attempt to clear that sample and couldn't?

on the listening that wasn't produced by 9th?

I think Eccentric did that one

At least not to me.

..enough for it to get pulled for clearance issues..it was just one hit stab noted up.

One of my faves on that album

The Get Up is one of my favorites on that album too. That's like Doggystyle without G'z Up Hoe's Down on it...

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

young guru wasn't gonna mix it dirty either..

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

loved the unpolished sound on the listening.

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Guru took the bump out

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His(Jay) music always seems mixed flat imo. Everything is leveled. No punch. If you listen to Little Brother's version of Threat, the beat sounds better. Maybe 9th mixed that one himself..

Good observation, Fam...

LOL at how you worded it but yeah, you on point.

https://chriswind.bandcamp.com/track/massage

"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African"
Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!

...straight-up-&-down....

Shit was dat RAW!

Thas' the problem these days.......joints don't be havin' dat RAW!



9th, Tay, & Pooh get infinite respect from me for "The Listening"....

Nuff said......

https://chriswind.bandcamp.com/track/massage

"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African"
Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!