mistermaxxx08 Member since Dec 31st 2010 16076 posts
Fri Nov-08-13 01:26 PM
"Poll question: Was Wynton Marsalis the Kayne West of Jazz?"
Wynton was controversial and felt he was the best and made his own bold proclamations (i actually spelled that right give me a cookie) anyway he spoke against the new embraced the old and had his own ideas about music making
4. "I see what you're saying....but..." In response to Reply # 0 Fri Nov-08-13 02:35 PM by FilthyMcNasty
I wouldn't compare the two. Wynton is highly educated. He may sound conceded, but his views are backed by his knowledge and understanding of American music history. I don't agree with a lot of his views, but I can understand his point of view.
Kanye straight up calls himself a god, the best, the worlds biggest rock star. I don't even slightly understand or agree with any of that. Kanye has made some great music, but he is far from the best. At least wynton has the knowledge and skills to back it up. Wynton is one of the best trumpet players in the world, but he is not my favorite improviser at all (Roy hargrove is a far better improviser IMO), and when wynton claims he's one of the best, well...he is, but not THE best imo. His views on hiphop are off,but it doesn't bother me when he says them. He's an old man, who cares if he doesn't like hiphop.
Both have made claims they are great. Kanye just does it in shitty and coincided way that is hard to relate to or understand. Wynton backs it up with knowledge and history, and even tho I don't agree with him I understand his point of view. It's the point of view of an old elitist jazz Musucian. Kanye is just too full of himself.
5. "wynton never called himself great" In response to Reply # 4
and it's less about 'his' music and about his perception of the genre and how that's been reified after getting funded as the official historian.
the notion that his claims are backed up by his education are false though. he's reified his perspective not based on the 'facts' but his preferences, and that's where he rubs people wrong.
19. "because Kaney insists that everything he does is the biggest" In response to Reply # 6
and best shit ever just because he did it
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
8. "Aren't they almost polar opposites?" In response to Reply # 0
Isn't Wynton of the mentality that Jazz has to be a very specific way and follow specific rules and traditions to be authentic, while Kanye is completely anti-genre, color outside the lines, break all rules?
Outside of music, dude was yapping a lot and hyping himself up and getting taken to the top by influential critics like Stanley Crouch. In other ways he wasnt as others have pointed out.
Anyway, I dont hate Wynton and I think his mission originally came from a good place considering how watered down jazz had become after the 79s and fusion<sometimes, narrowminded purists are needed and good for an artform, its easy to shit on dude for a dozen of reason but Im honestly not sure he has done more bad than good from a pundit standpoint.
Of course, if you just go on like that year after year, you become a bore and a nuicance but there COULD be worse curators for jazz, just saying. A lot of people complained about Ken Burns Jazz where Wynton was the prime consultant but considering how difficult such a vast genre is to handle, I thought it was pretty damn good even if some things pissed me off majorly/guess which
As for his music, not a fan and I don\t like his trumpet playing too much either, hes too much of a music school student who have studied all the greats and know all their cliches and blah blah but what does HE bring to the table_ Why should I listen to him_
11. "really on in the fact that they are both highly opinionated," In response to Reply # 0
but other than that i don't see any real comparisons
people criticize wynton for his traditionalist views, but when people express similar type views in rock or other genres they are championed
i don't necessarily agree with him but he hasn't done any damage to the genre, his only crime is not being better than the legends he champions but who is
12. "Wynton is one of the greatest musicians on Earth" In response to Reply # 0
from a technical standpoint, Kaney doesn't equate to him in that regard in the slightest they're both opinionated but Wynton is really passionate about tradition and the importance of it, even while expanding on new ideas; Kaney is really passionate about whatever will make people look at him still not much of a camparison
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
13. "RE: Wynton is one of the greatest musicians on Earth" In response to Reply # 12
>from a technical standpoint, Kaney doesn't equate to him in >that regard in the slightest >they're both opinionated but Wynton is really passionate about >tradition and the importance of it, even while expanding on >new ideas; Kaney is really passionate about whatever will make >people look at him >still not much of a camparison
Exactly and Wyntons passion for the music is undeniable even if it does come off a little too academic sometimes
jazz heads in the 90s called wynton the puffy of his movement.
somewhat of a game changer. dangerous revisionist. extremely derivative of past styles. negated the underground/subculture (m-base native tongue-esque collective were brewing under in early 80s then wynton came in with a suit and co signs from george butler/stanley crouch and kinda tsunami'd all future new directions in jazz (my personal belief is that david murray was up next to lead jazz into places it never seen and suddenly in 84 we are going back to the future)
ye to me is a refined hov. who was also a refined puff.
pretty much if you have the resources to afford the best....then do so.
my question is: what are the results of Ye's work/th if you pull his budget away.
he has awesome ideas.
but let's not forget every last one of his ideas are paid for by him.
NO! LIST Tom Petty M J Zeppelin Springsteen Neil Young Eagles Ray Charles Madonna Chuck Berry South Park TV Songs Justin Timberlake "Food Glorious Food" "Twilight Zone" theme "A Boy Named Sue" "Night Moves" "The Situation" "Superbowl Shuffle"
>my question is: what are the results of Ye's work/th if you >pull his budget away. > > >he has awesome ideas. > >but let's not forget every last one of his ideas are paid for >by him.
Been saying this (not just about him) for years, specifically around sampling. Creativity should not be evaluated based on budget. And the thing with ye specifically is that a lot of what he's able to do within his budget is fascinating on the scale of it but often is average based on what he could be doing if there were a bit more creativity involved.
Not that any of this is a knock for him. He's creative but he gets passes for a lot of shit simply because of the magnitude of the presentation rather than critical evaluation of the execution.
20. "RE: Was Wynton Marsalis the Kayne West of Jazz?" In response to Reply # 0
I'm going with YES, simply because he was also making an ass of himself on stages, trying to crash other peoples performances...
"June 28, 1986. From Davis’ autobiography: “All of a sudden I feel this presence coming up on me, this body movement, and I see that the crowd is kind of wanting to cheer or gasp….Then Wynton whispers in my ear—and I’m still trying to play—‘They told me to come up here.’… I said, ‘Man, what the fuck are you doing up here on stage? Get the fuck off the stage!’”
Marsalis’ version, from a 1990 Downbeat article: “I went on his bandstand to address some disparaging statements he was making about me publicly. I felt I should address them publicly with my horn. I don’t know who this mysterious ‘they’ was that he claims told me to go up there. I told me to go up there.”
All parties recall Miles stopping the music when Wynton began to play, then refusing to resume until the younger man exited. It was a quick, heated skirmish, but the story spread. For some musicians, Marsalis’ taking the stage uninvited was a condemnable act. “The ultimate statement of arrogance,” percussionist and former Davis sideman James Mtume calls it. “A straight-up attack on Miles. Miles was so beyond that. It was about, ‘What the fuck are you doing? How you’re going to challenge me and I’ve changed music four or five times.’ It was to the point where he would’ve punched him. And believe me, he would have.”"
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