i read a essay by chuck kloserman,
and he was talking about artists that are "advanced."

this is when a well established, successful artist
seems falls off a precipice and do shitty work,
but really, they are doing genius level work that
is one or two beats ahead of what everybody is expecting.

advanced is not to be confused with "overt,"
which is when the artist does something completely different
than what is expected in a reactionary way.





so anyway, "grand theft auto v" was released a while back,
and the trailer for the video game had stevie wonder's "skeletons"
on it.

i have always thought this song was crazy,
but the general consensus was that 80s stevie blows.
but then, now that the trailer is attached to the song,
ppl get it. it has a context. ppl dig the tune now.

maybe stevie wonder in the 80s was just advanced.





i am trying to think of other artists that may fit into this
category. it's a fun way to try to think about music criticism
(althouth some have criticized advanced theory as being a way
for music fans to enjoy shitty music from great artists.)



anyway... what artists do you think may qualify as "advanced?"


here's the essay i'm referencing, btw...
http://tinyurl.com/knun69l

But the problem is that the trend of popular music went in a different direction from the one that he was pointing to... so it just makes his music from that era sound meandering, wrongheaded, etc.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

Money tracks and I love Stevie. he had what i call hit and miss material in the 80's.

him being addicted to Technilogy just like Maurice White hurt the music and the Production suffered IMO.

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>Money tracks and I love Stevie. he had what i call hit and
>miss material in the 80's.
>
>him being addicted to Technilogy just like Maurice White hurt
>the music and the Production suffered IMO.
>
>

I agree with mr maxx on this 100%. Yup i know, i dont normally agree with you on most stuff Maxx, but on this i absolutely agree man. Stevie in the 80's was hit/miss for me too...

while i DO think 'Hotter Than July' gets UNDERRated in most Stevie discussions (I think its a really solid album that i enjoy completely)...the REST of the 80's output was only 'peppered' with nice gems here and there (the two Maxx mentioned, 'Ribbon In The sky', 'Overjoyed' maybe a few others) but the OVERALL MAIN course of 80s output was very forgettable from my perspective...

�
have you listened to
her stuff?
v

http://www.meshell.com/site/
https://www.facebook.com/officialmeshell?fref=ts
http://www.freemyheart.com


RIP David Williams:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williams_(guitarist)

fit this argument IMO.


Chaka Khan with "I Feel for you" because she had the Stevie WOnder sample, the modern day groove and the scratching and free style.
and Chaka herself is annoyed by the song because folks till this day come at her and say Chaka Khan, Chaka Khan, can I rock you. the song was catchy and corny at the same time and yet it worked and nobody else could have pulled it off and yet it felt like a novelty

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

prince using the dave chapelle joke as the cover for his single
in 2013 is very much advanced.

"my name is prince" is probably not advanced,
but "batdance" almost certainly is.

because had Prince did that about 05 or 06 it would have been in step.

when it comes to Prince the only thing advanced he ever did IMO was taken the Bass out of When Doves cry, other than that he was pretty standard with his musical approaches to me.

Batdance was going to hit regardless with the logo tie in.

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And there were lots of other innovative things he did throughout the 80s (even though I personally did not enjoy them, I can acknowledge that they were interesting experiments)

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

would i call advance, however the way he crafted and put things together as a whole was cool, however in hindsight alot of things ain't aged that well and if he couldn't play then he would have been found out alot sooner and notice how he ran out of ideas within the very era??

however to me dirty mind, controversy and 1999 are his trinity IMO

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Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

>however to me dirty mind, controversy and 1999 are his trinity
>IMO

Some parts of Controversy and 1999 have not aged as well for me but Dirty Mind is impeccable.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

(I assume....I was probably jammin in the nutsack to it though)

------------------------------

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she knew them as the parliaments,
who did motown sounding songs with vaguely off-kilter lyrics.

then she walked in to a parliament concert and saw
a man on stage wearing a diaper, people doing drugs on stage,
and heavy metal guitars.

she wasn't ready. lol




anyway, yeah.
george clinton is usually advanced.

i got a kick out of it when i caught the meaning of the name
of parliament's debut album, "osmium."

osmium is the heaviest naturally occurring element. it's a heavy metal.

get it?
heavy metal?

i didn't catch that one for years.




>(I assume....I was probably jammin in the nutsack to it
>though)

they truly seemed from another planet and vibe. George Clinton was cool like that in that he could blend with so many things and yet have his own vibe through it all.that talent in that camp was scary

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

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...came on the iPod when I was driving. I was thinking how the latter era of Parliament and Funkadelic was the beginning of the electro funk era that followed in the early 80s.




Since 1976

...to be honest i caught on kinda late, (didnt hear them until mid stream of their run)...but my mind was sufficiently blown once i did hear them as a youngin and i was hooked...and looking back THESE days (with a broader context) considering what else was going on around them at the time, it only makes what they were doing back then seem even MORE impressive, forward thinking & 'advanced'...

�
have you listened to
her stuff?
v

http://www.meshell.com/site/
https://www.facebook.com/officialmeshell?fref=ts
http://www.freemyheart.com


RIP David Williams:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williams_(guitarist)

>i have always thought this song was crazy,
>but the general consensus was that 80s stevie blows.
>but then, now that the trailer is attached to the song,
>ppl get it. it has a context. ppl dig the tune now.
>

People like lot's of Stevie 80's hits like:

That girl
Go home
Overjoyed
Love light in flight
You will know
Skeletons

Just that from a whole LP/CD perspective, Stevie wasn't in the "zone" like he was in the 70's where an album cut like "Jesus Children of America" adds to the "Innervisions" experience in an important way.

ppl caught on pretty quickly. still, those extended Funk workouts he made in the late 60s and early 70s were on another level for the time.

fuck you.

Don't understand how anyone can hate this album. I Love You Too Much, Never In Your Sun, Spiritual Walkers, Go Home, Overjoyed. The whole album is great. This album is alway in my rotation.

Mines too
Never In Your Sun is too ill

Go Home was cool, part time lover was cute,though Luther vandross's banground vocals stole the thunder from Stevie IMO

overjoyed was nice.

the album to me was hit and miss. put it like this after a Hotter than July or even do I do and that girl in square circles was liteweight territory stuff IMO

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The only song I might skip is Land of LALA. The rest is classic Stevie IMO.

that in album is corny. and to me Stevie Wonder has had the best run of albums ever to me, however in square circles felt in part like a Square had kidnapped Stevie Wonder IMO.

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ain't even trying to hear that and Stevie would tell you as well

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where i'm coming from and music of my mind

as part of stevie's amazing 70s run?

imo, both are fantastic albums.

IMO they're not as evenas the 3 that came after.

(See what I did there? I left SITKOL out bc I think it's uneven as compared to the previous 3).

fuck you.

'fantastic' may have been a touch too much, but they both have fantastic songs on them. still, i concede that they're not _quite_ as good as what was to come.

still great albums, though.

and, yes, SITKOL is a bit sprawling. there are songs i'd leave off. getting people to agree on which songs isn't easy.

being very tough, i'd drop:

Have a Talk With God
Contusion
Saturn
Joy Inside My Tears
Ngiculela-Es Una Historia-I Am Singing
All Day Sucker
Easy Goin' Evening(My Mama's Call)

and then you'd have one hell of a single album, imo.

>'fantastic' may have been a touch too much, but they both
>have fantastic songs on them. still, i concede that they're
>not _quite_ as good as what was to come.
>
>still great albums, though.

i agree.

>and, yes, SITKOL is a bit sprawling. there are songs i'd leave
>off. getting people to agree on which songs isn't easy.
>
>being very tough, i'd drop:
>
>Have a Talk With God
>Contusion
>Saturn
>Joy Inside My Tears
>Ngiculela-Es Una Historia-I Am Singing
>All Day Sucker
>Easy Goin' Evening(My Mama's Call)
>
>and then you'd have one hell of a single album, imo.

it would make a great single album but ppl don't agree which songs should be cut. i'd cut different songs than you'd cut. lol

fuck you.

1. Love's In need...edited to 4 minutes or so
2. Knocks me off my feet
3. Pastime paradise
4. Isn't she lovely...edited to 3.5 minutes or so
5. Contusion

6. Sir Duke
7. I wish
8. As
9. Another star

One 45 minute disc.

I cut several songs I like ('All day sucker', 'black man', 'joy inside...', et al) and several I dislike ('village ghetto land', 'have a talk', et al).

fuck you.

i was thinking about cutting 'black man' from my version but then i listened to it again and, though it's long, it's just so goddamn worthy.

I made a 2nd album (playlist) featuring most of the songs I'd cut, with Black Man as the title cut:

1. Black man
2. All day sucker
3. Ordinary pain

4. Knocks me off my feet
5. Joy inside my tears
6. I am singing
7. Ebony eyes
8. Saturn

...for this to have worked 'Summer soft' would've replaced 'Knocks me off' on Sitkol 2. It's still about 45 minutes long. 3 singles - Black man, All day sucker and Knocks me off. If I a&r'd, Sitkol would've been released in 1976 with BM following the next yr. but BM is a let down after Sitkol....

fuck you.

haters just want to be jive, ain't nothing wrong with it at all, its the Greatest double Album Ever.

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the Stevie Police gonna get you for that everytime

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critique is NOT badmouthing. people are entitled to their own opinions. you may disagree that SITKOL is bloated, that's your prerogative - but how about saying so eloquently and without being a prick?

you know, if you can.

and for the record, go look at who exactly is my favorite artist in the aforementioned post.

and songs in the key of life is the greatest double album ever period and i will defend and debate the merits of its genius.

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but stevie is 2nd for me, so i see where you are coming from

----------
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

yep.

WAIT.

yes, stevie is better than prince,

but there's no filler on SOTT.

just like some fans count prince's first two albums, sorta.


but the praise really kicks in at "talking book" and "dirty mind."

>where i'm coming from and music of my mind
>
>as part of stevie's amazing 70s run?
>
>imo, both are fantastic albums.

those albums are great, but not drop dead fantastic like what was to come

----------
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just reading further down in the post now...

Maxx what the hell is going on today man???....i agree with you on a portion of this here as too....while i personally hated Part time lover...it was Luthers elements WITHIN it that were the ONLY redeeming factor of the song for me....

�
have you listened to
her stuff?
v

http://www.meshell.com/site/
https://www.facebook.com/officialmeshell?fref=ts
http://www.freemyheart.com


RIP David Williams:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williams_(guitarist)

i still think i like the woman in red soundtrack better,
and that's not a diss.

<--- #LoveCitees

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he was known as the sensative acoustic singer/ songwriter.
overt would be releasing a thrash metal album.

but it was advanced to collaborate with herbie hancock,
to jam with blues legends that no normal person has heard of,
release a live album with covers of ray charles and jimi hendrix,
and consosoldate all of this into "continuum."

pretty sure his last two country influenced albums are advanced as well.
he still sounds like him. but it's different.
not the opposite of what one would expect,
but not at all what you would expect, either.

1) snoop's "sexual seduction" was very much advanced.
especially the video... because that video wasn't ironic.
it was sincere.

it totally fit in snoops persona,
and it wasnt left of what you'd expect him to do in a reactionary way.
him singing in those costumes still felt like him,
but in a way you'd never expect.

that was advanced.




2) the isley's covering soft rock songs on "3+3."
(summer breeze, listen to the music, don't let me be lonely tonight)
not reactionary, not what you'd expect... advanced.

i'd also add on Ronald Isley's "mr. bigg's" phase of his career,
and maybe Charlie Wilson's second life with the neptunes.


i'd also add r. kelly in the first 5 chapters of "trapped in the closet,"

good stuff preach on there man

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00swp01

I'd like to entertain the notion of this post but then i remember the 90's.

A Time 4 Love is underrated though.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00swp01
>
>I'd like to entertain the notion of this post but then i
>remember the 90's.
>
>A Time 4 Love is underrated though.
>
>█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
>Big PEMFin H & z's
>"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1
>thing, a musician." © Miles
>
>"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

fuck you.

....using the synth for basslines in popular music? I'm not talking about any obscure experimental albums that may have used the synth for basslines; just the stuff that influenced popular music (though one could argue that those Tonto's Expanding Headband albums which influenced Stevie are indirect influences of synth basslines in popular music).



Since 1976

...if memory serves me correct, they didn't really get onto the electro bassline thing until the latter half of the 70s. Stevie was on the synth basslines in the early 70s.



Since 1976

and i remember it on the cosby show and in die hard.

>and i remember it on the cosby show and in die hard.


fuckin Argyle

the warm version of that album. had some tight cuts and others which were mirowave soft soul.

like i said it wasn't bad however its a long ways from 72-80 and Stevie himself knew it.

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instruments....

that Kurzweil gave him too much freedom to just do everything at one station...his 80's work is so nuanced but the sound of it isn't the warm sound that mesmerized us in the 70's. He got better at using the new technology and I really think the Jungle Fever soundtrack will end up standing up well next to his 70's work.

------------------
One Hundred.

non-organic instruments were almost intentionally boring. the idea was to use them to create a steady, uniform sound. it definitely furthered dance music but there was a feeling out period where there was just nothing dynamic about the music.

i think about what you're saying with a lot of artists, if their ideas and lyrics of the 80s had a more 70s sound. chaka khan, stevie, neil young, et al. they all had kind of lame but redeemable periods during the 80s.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

own flavor based on who was playing what...the 80's stuff is basically ALL stevie playing just about everything. You can tell when he plays live how the 80's stuff would sound with the tools he had from the 70's and it all sounds way better.

------------------
One Hundred.

....would've sounded like if 70s Stevie made them with the synths he used back then. Like, I bet "I Just Called..." would've sounded less sappy. I mean, the vocal melody feels like classic Stevie but the keyboards he used in the 80s didn't have the warm sound like the 70s stuff. From my understanding, some of those 80s songs were conceived back in the 70s but weren't produced until the following decade.




Since 1976

>instruments....
>
>that Kurzweil gave him too much freedom to just do everything
>at one station...his 80's work is so nuanced but the sound of
>it isn't the warm sound that mesmerized us in the 70's. He
>got better at using the new technology and I really think the
>Jungle Fever soundtrack will end up standing up well next to
>his 70's work.

Jungle Fever was indeed better than the bulk of the 80's albums to me...i remember picking it up and listening and having the reaction of... ."..ok...now thats much better Stevie..."

�
have you listened to
her stuff?
v

http://www.meshell.com/site/
https://www.facebook.com/officialmeshell?fref=ts
http://www.freemyheart.com


RIP David Williams:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williams_(guitarist)

"Love Light In Flight" from the Woman In Red soundtrack is another example
of an underappreciated 80's Stevie song that has been "catching on" lately,
especially with the re-edit crowd.

// http://FRESHselects.net

I understand how you'd trying to apply it to Stevie though. I apply it to McCartney.

----

that's how i read it.

In particular, the album Dusk. And it struck me how incredibly advanced Matt Johnson had gotten by that album. He had Johnny Marr in his corner, which certainly didn't hurt. There's a really stock stadium rock production on the album, but if you listen to the lyrics. . . jeez, just listen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb1wIT0A5og

And that was a SINGLE.

Just, wow.


``i know you are fake. . . 'cause man, i'm the same.``
"unspecified psychosis." http://bit.ly/HgJRBl
"the real ernesto." http://bit.ly/1dNHCk5
"untitled 6." http://bit.ly/19QmVPu
"so whatever 2.0." http://bit.ly/18hYTfT
"1.5.2.0." http://bit.ly/18UMv7A