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Subject: "Two very very white people ask me about Luther Vandross recently..." Previous topic | Next topic
Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Oct-30-13 08:58 AM

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"Two very very white people ask me about Luther Vandross recently..."


  

          

Co workers independent of each other, approached me and asked me if I were a Luther Vandross fan. They've also been cranking it in their offices.

Luther Vandross I've always thought of one of the "blackest" singers in that he is adored by all black people and yet he barely registers on white folks radar. Can you think of another act outside of gospel that has close to 100% black recognition and very low white recognition?

Is there something in pop culture zeitgeist that I miss that has white folks discovering Luther Vandross?

Did someone cover one his songs recently or something. Major white act name his as an influence (I am getting a Rolling Stones big up'ing Muddy Waters type of feeling)?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I tried to find that clip from the Sopranos ep 'Kaisha'
Oct 30th 2013
1
A lot of 80s and 90s R&B is unknown even to white lovers of Black
Oct 30th 2013
2
Phil Collins
Oct 30th 2013
3
"dance with my father" crossed over, and then he died.
Oct 30th 2013
4
Interesting
Oct 30th 2013
5
dance with my father was out while he was in the hospital in a coma
Oct 30th 2013
24
      yeah, you're right... i remember now.
Oct 30th 2013
27
           a precursor to what clive Davis did the night Whitney died
Oct 30th 2013
28
GTA soundtracks, maybe.
Oct 30th 2013
6
Patti Labelle
Oct 30th 2013
7
not P-Funk.
Oct 30th 2013
10
      my thought/litmus
Oct 30th 2013
11
      A'ight.
Oct 30th 2013
12
           white people love P-Funk, that first wave of college kids is like 45 now
Oct 30th 2013
15
           agreed.
Oct 30th 2013
18
           I don't think they crossed over in the 70's...
Oct 30th 2013
17
                that's my impression.
Oct 30th 2013
20
                P Funk had hits in the 70's however they were more of a black thing
Oct 30th 2013
23
      PCU.
Oct 30th 2013
19
           that too.
Oct 30th 2013
21
Couple yrs ago Robert Downey Jr made a grand comic con entrance to
Oct 30th 2013
8
luther vandross had a bunch of pop hits in the 90s
Oct 30th 2013
9
fat jerri curl that didn't flip Luther was a Black thang
Oct 30th 2013
13
"bring back the night" might be part of it.
Oct 30th 2013
16
      alot of folks in here talking that JT's song sounds like Solar Records
Oct 30th 2013
22
to answer your question Teena marie, Frankie Beverly and Maze
Oct 30th 2013
14
Frankie Beverly and Maze have zero white fans
Oct 30th 2013
25
I think I met their one white fan.
Oct 30th 2013
26
okay.
Oct 30th 2013
30
RE: Two very very white people ask me about Luther Vandross recently...
Oct 30th 2013
29
the Bowie Connection was no bigger than him on Sesame street
Oct 30th 2013
31
White folks have always known who LV was
Oct 30th 2013
32
if they had have been feeling him then he wouldn't have made that
Oct 30th 2013
33
GIVE ME THE REASON album
Oct 30th 2013
34
this. when he started getting grammys is when he got on yt radar.
Oct 30th 2013
35
      here and now then Love Power were the turning points
Oct 30th 2013
36

AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Wed Oct-30-13 09:31 AM

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1. "I tried to find that clip from the Sopranos ep 'Kaisha'"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but I failed.

So... no comment.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Teknontheou
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Wed Oct-30-13 09:38 AM

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2. "A lot of 80s and 90s R&B is unknown even to white lovers of Black"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

music, let alone casual white listeners.

  

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JayEmm
Member since Feb 06th 2004
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Wed Oct-30-13 09:52 AM

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3. "Phil Collins"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Can you think of
>another act outside of gospel that has close to 100% black
>recognition and very low white recognition?



j/k.. sorta

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Wed Oct-30-13 10:16 AM

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4. ""dance with my father" crossed over, and then he died. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

or did he die, and that got released posthumously?
but anyway... he also had a Christmas album that sold a gazillion copies.

white folks know about him, to a degree.





>Co workers independent of each other, approached me and asked
>me if I were a Luther Vandross fan. They've also been
>cranking it in their offices.
>
>Luther Vandross I've always thought of one of the "blackest"
>singers in that he is adored by all black people and yet he
>barely registers on white folks radar. Can you think of
>another act outside of gospel that has close to 100% black
>recognition and very low white recognition?
>
>Is there something in pop culture zeitgeist that I miss that
>has white folks discovering Luther Vandross?
>
>Did someone cover one his songs recently or something. Major
>white act name his as an influence (I am getting a Rolling
>Stones big up'ing Muddy Waters type of feeling)?
>
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Oct-30-13 10:32 AM

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5. "Interesting"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

It seems that Richard Marx recently mentioned in concert that he co-wrote that song with his Vandross and has been reluctant to perform it but has added it to his set on his recent tour. This actually explains one of my co-workers new found interest.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/15825817-richard-marx-hangsout-at-the-bears-den


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

  

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mistermaxxx08
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Wed Oct-30-13 01:36 PM

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24. "dance with my father was out while he was in the hospital in a coma"
In response to Reply # 4


          

that was a spooky time because Clive Davis was at the hospital handing him awards and grinning while Luther was on the verge of death. that album went double platinum and that song was a huge hit, though it was a corny weeper and i thought man, what he went through to just cross over?

he was alive while the album was out,however he was in the hospital.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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27. "yeah, you're right... i remember now. "
In response to Reply # 24


  

          


that was my senior year in college.
and i remember that awards show when that happened.

they had him accept it via Skype and he tried to sing to show
he was alright but he sounded fucked up still, you could tell.

that made me sad.

>that was a spooky time because Clive Davis was at the
>hospital handing him awards and grinning while Luther was on
>the verge of death. that album went double platinum and
>that song was a huge hit, though it was a corny weeper and i
>thought man, what he went through to just cross over?
>
>he was alive while the album was out,however he was in the
>hospital.

  

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mistermaxxx08
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28. "a precursor to what clive Davis did the night Whitney died"
In response to Reply # 27


          

i mean Clive was in the Hospital handing Luther those awards and it felt so fake and staged. Luther was all drugged up and out of it.

just sad

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Oct-30-13 10:45 AM

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6. "GTA soundtracks, maybe."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

also Pandora and Spotify. if they were listening to some 80s R&B station (or something similar) they would've come across his stuff.

as for anything RECENT and specific - i'm not aware.

fuck you.

  

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Selah
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Wed Oct-30-13 11:41 AM

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7. "Patti Labelle"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Maze (f. Frankie Beverly)
George Clinton (Parliament/Funkadelic)

those come to mind as acts pretty much famous in Black folks context

i considered Chaka Khan also but wasn't too sure

  

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SoWhat
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10. "not P-Funk."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

i dunno how it happened but the band is big w/white college kids.

they've become one of those jam bands that stoners are into. like a black version of Phish or the Grateful Dead. probably in the wake of 80s/90s Hip-Hop samples - particularly Dre's which came along w/all of that weed imagery.

i've seen P-Funk play shows here in Chicago at venues that don't book black acts and would book an act like Phish (when they played smaller venues) or Medeski Martin & Wood. LOL

fuck you.

  

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Selah
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Wed Oct-30-13 12:11 PM

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11. "my thought/litmus"
In response to Reply # 10


          

put on "flashlight" at a predominantly Black event (where there is dancing) and what happens

do the same at a white party...what happens

i will concede that certain college-age whitefolks might be an exception because of the coolness factor (similar to why/how they get into Bob Marley)

  

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SoWhat
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12. "A'ight."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

I think P-Funk crossed over to the point where enough non-blacks are familiar that appreciating their music isn't an exclusively black thing. Primarily, yes. But not on the level of other acts mentioned in the post.

fuck you.

  

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Bombastic
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Wed Oct-30-13 12:29 PM

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15. "white people love P-Funk, that first wave of college kids is like 45 now"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

and it has not stopped.

  

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SoWhat
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18. "agreed."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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Wed Oct-30-13 12:50 PM

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17. "I don't think they crossed over in the 70's..."
In response to Reply # 12


          

...not that I would know but my impression based on talking to older, white rock-guys is that EW&F was the funk/soul-band that crossed over then and more to the Toto/Foreigner-type crowds.

The P-funk thing must have happened sometimes in the 80's-early 90's originally because I remember that it was SO easy to find the records cheap in cut-out bins (admittedly, I'm talking sweden here; maybe white americans were different) and then all of a sudden, they were expensive and treated like rock-rarities. My guess is that it initially started with RHCP as well as-for more underground audiences-all the punk-funk act that name-dropped them. The whole "Sun Ra/Lee Perry/cutting-edge/spacey" Wire-reading audience followed when the Funkadelic-albums got reissued in the early 90's and then the Dre/Snoop (and Ice Cube earlier I guess) crossover put it over the top; it's like Hip-Hop beats... but they were jamming!!!

I really don't know though, interesting if someone has some detailed imput on this...

  

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SoWhat
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20. "that's my impression."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

the band didn't cross over in the 70s - it happened in the 90s.

fuck you.

  

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mistermaxxx08
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Wed Oct-30-13 01:33 PM

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23. "P Funk had hits in the 70's however they were more of a black thing"
In response to Reply # 17


          

i mean even Automic Dog which back in 82/83 was arugably the 2nd most important R&B hit to MJ's Billie Jean and that was a Mainly a Black thing until Hip Hop took over.

New Jack Swing and Hip Hop got P Funk there long overdue. Digital Underground, De La SOul, Snoop, Dr Dre, and others got on board the Mothership and it took off once the albums got brought back into Print/

however Clinton and Crew were always huge in Black Households, white folks loved We Want the Funk, and Flashlight and some other hits, however it was seen as either too Black or a Novelty.

because the Imagery of P Funk had some folks thinking they were on that Black version of kiss tip which is wrong/

Clinton had a true dream team of musical talent. i mean as far as instrumentalists and versatility go P Funk is the baddest band of Musicians from One Band bar none IMO. however their albums to me were hit and miss.

but if we strickly talking about musicianship then they are the cream of the croup

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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19. "PCU. "
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>i dunno how it happened but the band is big w/white college
>kids.
>


there is a movie about some frat house slackers
and they all go to this concert and George Clinton is there performing.
I've never seen the movie, but a few prior frat boys told me that's when they got up on George Clinton. It's a cult classic, i think.


>they've become one of those jam bands that stoners are into.
>like a black version of Phish or the Grateful Dead. probably
>in the wake of 80s/90s Hip-Hop samples - particularly Dre's
>which came along w/all of that weed imagery.
>
>i've seen P-Funk play shows here in Chicago at venues that
>don't book black acts and would book an act like Phish (when
>they played smaller venues) or Medeski Martin & Wood. LOL
>

  

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SoWhat
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21. "that too."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Selah
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Wed Oct-30-13 11:44 AM

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8. "Couple yrs ago Robert Downey Jr made a grand comic con entrance to"
In response to Reply # 0


          

"Never Too Much" during the Marvel/Iron Man panel

white folks (popular media, not just comic con nerds) ate that up at the time

  

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shockzilla
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9. "luther vandross had a bunch of pop hits in the 90s"
In response to Reply # 0


          

and that very successful 'songs' album of covers. all very MOR, but people loved it.

  

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mistermaxxx08
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Wed Oct-30-13 12:21 PM

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13. "fat jerri curl that didn't flip Luther was a Black thang"
In response to Reply # 0


          

when he got skinny and had the conservative top then he crossed over with hit and miss results.

Luther covered alot of pop songs and know tracks and yet it took dance with my father to truly cross him over because here and now didn't fully do it nor that weak cover of endless love with him and Mariah carey or the best things in life are free with Janet Jackson and BBD.

Luther had the voice and the approach, however it never fully got over. Never too much been sampled and used. also if you got a good pair of ears Justin timberlake's "bring back the night" the opening part on the chorus clearly jacks Never too much.

Richard marx been had been working with Luther since back in 91. the title song to marx's album keep coming back had luther on backgrond vocals.

Luther had a bunch of platinum albums and hits so he wasn't a blank.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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16. ""bring back the night" might be part of it. "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

Dude played the Vandross track and I thought it was the JT track he was listening to.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

  

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mistermaxxx08
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Wed Oct-30-13 01:27 PM

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22. "alot of folks in here talking that JT's song sounds like Solar Records"
In response to Reply # 16


          

Leon Sylvers era and I dissagree because I hear Never too much in that song off the word jump.

and i think an older set of ears catches that ASAP as well

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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mistermaxxx08
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Wed Oct-30-13 12:23 PM

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14. "to answer your question Teena marie, Frankie Beverly and Maze"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Steve Arrington, Bar Kays,

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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John Forte
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Wed Oct-30-13 02:51 PM

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25. "Frankie Beverly and Maze have zero white fans"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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26. "I think I met their one white fan. "
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

he said he was shocked when he gt the concert
b/c he didn't know they didn't have white fans, somehow.

he said he was the only white guy there.
i would not be surprised if he wasn't exaggerating.

  

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shockzilla
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30. "okay."
In response to Reply # 25


          

  

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denny
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Wed Oct-30-13 04:12 PM

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29. "RE: Two very very white people ask me about Luther Vandross recently..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

\
>Is there something in pop culture zeitgeist that I miss that
>has white folks discovering Luther Vandross?


There's a new documentary out on David Bowie that features Luther. I actually didn't know that Luther's first big break into the industry came from Bowie. So my guess is they saw the doc which shows them working out vocal arrangements together.

  

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mistermaxxx08
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Wed Oct-30-13 04:26 PM

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31. "the Bowie Connection was no bigger than him on Sesame street"
In response to Reply # 29


          

or being on the Apollo. truth is association with ROberta Flack who crossed over big time had arguably a big hand in Luther's solo career. i mean Roberta had a hand in peabo Bryson's solo thing taking off and Donny Hatahway benefited from those duets IMO.

Vandross though got labeled too Black and took for granted, however if you paid close attention to Luther's album making Process the cat remade classic songs, he also was very successful and was a Black Pop cross over mantle to Teddy Pendergrass and don't act like Boyz 11 Men, Mariah Carey, and some other 90's acts didn't read off the Vandross playbook either.

however his sound and vibe was very black though when you cover a House is not a home, superstar and until you come back to me,etc... that is very cross over.

i know Marcus Miller and Nat Adderly Jr kept the music with pop and subtle stank, still Luther wasn't exactly making ZZ Hill R&B records either. he was accessible IMO.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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ramaj1
Member since May 20th 2008
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Wed Oct-30-13 07:13 PM

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32. "White folks have always known who LV was"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'd put Luther in the same boat as Mary J. Blige.

They're demi-gods among mainstream black listeners yet only an occasional presence with the white masses. General white listeners know them, sure, but aside from an occasional crossover hit (Power of Love for LV in the early '90s; Family Affair or Be Without You for MJB in the early to mid '00s), they're not on their radar like that.

But they still know who they are.

Now, Frankie Beverly & Maze, on the other hand. VERY FEW whites will know who they are even though they're legends for many Black Americans of various generations.

  

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mistermaxxx08
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33. "if they had have been feeling him then he wouldn't have made that"
In response to Reply # 32


          

White out messs he made from the early 90's through 00's. brother man was chasing cross over like TIger Woods chasing a Blonde.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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tapedeck
Member since Dec 27th 2004
6785 posts
Wed Oct-30-13 09:53 PM

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34. "GIVE ME THE REASON album"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This us the album thst got him into the pop market. The title song was big in a Danny Devito movie.

Check out NEW Soul music at: www.myspace.com/starbeing

Bumpin in the STEREO:
Gladys Knight&The Pips
Janelle Monae-E.L.
George Duke-Feel
E.W.F.-NT&F
La La-Self titled

  

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poetx
Charter member
58856 posts
Wed Oct-30-13 10:20 PM

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35. "this. when he started getting grammys is when he got on yt radar. "
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

when we was grinding on chicks in basement parties to Superstar and A House Is Not a Home --- white folks ain't know shit about that.

but he went poppoppop w/ the shit that started getting him grammy nods. he got soundtracks, and bank.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
** i move away from the mic to breathe in

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Wed Oct-30-13 11:05 PM

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36. "here and now then Love Power were the turning points"
In response to Reply # 35


          

give me the reason had a wink and a nod, however he still was TK Carter not Byron Allen black

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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