We know his resume, albums, productions and influence. As an overall Hip Hop artist can he ever crack the Top 10?

Peace

2003-Present as MC
1996/97 - Present as Producer

He knocking on the door...if not there....like him or not

but that he's #1-they're wrong about that part but he's definitely knocking on the door to get in at the very least

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

Yeah, like him or not his resume cant be denied. I mean when you think over 2003-2013 as an NC and like 1996-2013 as a Producer...he is almost there if not there...

I don't know...

The shaming of Kanye West fans has jumped the shark in my opinion...To me it's on the same level of the fans that think he's the greatest thing since condoms...

The truth is West is already a top 10 hip-hop act, top 15 at the very least...Saying this does not mean one is a STAN or deluded...It just means you are paying attention to the last decade plus of the hip-hop landscape...(If this was a debate about pure lyricism, this would be a different story...West is not on that supreme lyricist level...But there's more to being an all around MC/artist than just rhyming your ass off....)

Bottom line: There are plenty of music stars/icons that I don't get or like...That doesn't mean I'm oblivious to their overall work and impact on their particular genre...

Yes, some of West's more hardcore fans can be a little over the top...But that's fandom isn't it?

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

good perspective...I would say as an overall artist...he has made top 10 when you think about his career....people getting too caught up in just lyrics,..he can make songs....many cant

>The shaming of Kanye West fans has jumped the shark in my
>opinion...To me it's on the same level of the fans that think
>he's the greatest thing since condoms...
>

I'm not shaming them by saying they're wrong about him being #1


>The truth is West is already a top 10 hip-hop act, top 15 at
>the very least...Saying this does not mean one is a STAN or
>deluded...It just means you are paying attention to the last
>decade plus of the hip-hop landscape...(If this was a debate
>about pure lyricism, this would be a different story...West is
>not on that supreme lyricist level...But there's more to being
>an all around MC/artist than just rhyming your ass off....)
>

I didn't say anything about any of this


>Bottom line: There are plenty of music stars/icons that I
>don't get or like...That doesn't mean I'm oblivious to their
>overall work and impact on their particular genre...
>

it's not about not liking the work or any of that, I just said they're wrong about him being number 1
in fact I clearly said he's knocking on the door top ten AT THE LEAST


>Yes, some of West's more hardcore fans can be a little over
>the top...But that's fandom isn't it?

not to people that are sensible about their tastes and don't feel the need to project themselves into them

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

...if you're saying "Artist." Not a top ten MC, but his influence can't really be denied.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

MC is part of an artist...people think that being an mc is just rapping. You have to be able to construct songs and albums...he is one of the great artist of the culture now...cant deny that..

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

because "artist" can be a broad title.

Snoop Dogg is an example of a top 10 hip hop artist. Not necessarily the best emcee but he's made his share of great music, sells, longevity, impact, etc. Pharoahe Monch is an example of a top 10 emcee. Everything an emcee is supposed to be, this dude has it. No he doesn't have the sells or the widespread notoriety but when it comes to emceeing, not many can fuck with him. Nas is an example of a rapper that can be both. Top skills as an emcee. Plus the sells, longevity, impact, etc.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

I understand how you're separating the two and for the most part agree...but I was just saying that I want to see a list of the other 9 artists to see if I would really put him up that high.

And what classifies as a hip-hop artist? can a group be counted? can a producer be counted?

>Snoop Dogg is an example of a top 10 hip hop artist. Not
>necessarily the best emcee but he's made his share of great
>music, sells, longevity, impact, etc.

I don't think Snoop's discography is good enough to be a top 10 artist. top 10 figure/icon definitely. but no way is he a top 10 artist.

Pharoahe Monch is an
>example of a top 10 emcee. Everything an emcee is supposed to
>be, this dude has it. No he doesn't have the sells or the
>widespread notoriety but when it comes to emceeing, not many
>can fuck with him.

I don't know if I would put Monch up in the top 10. this is where we differ a little bit. Monch is a top 10 talent but I still need my MCs to be able to make songs on top of just spitting. I blur the lines a little bit more between MC and artist but the fundamental difference between the two that you laid out is accurate in my opinion.

Nas is an example of a rapper that can be
>both. Top skills as an emcee. Plus the sells, longevity,
>impact, etc.

I agree with this. Nas is on both lists.

How do you totally separate the two though? Just curious..

Top 10 artist you start including sells, impact, yadda, yadda. It gets complicated. Top 10 emcee is based solely on emcee skills. Storytelling, delivery, etc. you don't need sells and impact to be a top 10 emcee. Pharoahe Monch for example, I wouldn't be mad at anyone putting him in their top 10 emcee list.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

and for an MC's bars/performance on the mic/technical qualities/etc. ... so it's more of a product vs. skill/talent thing for me i think.. not that those are mutually exclusive at all... prime example is that i think Ghostface put in one of the greatest MC'ing performances ever (top 10, easily) throughout Supreme Clientele, and it also happens to be a top 10 hip hop album for me, artistically.. same can be said for DOOM on Madvillainy

__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

however in terms of folks who know something about actual talent and skills he more closer to 50-100

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

overall as an artist...he is at least in the #7-#10 range... not just rapping...but overall songs, albums etc..

for other people in addition to the shit he makes for himself.

Dude will probably make at least 3 more albums. He's going to have one of the greatest Careers of all time in the world of rap

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

That's true..

<--- Big Baller World Order

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

top 10 hip hop artist?
sure.

the rockist in me digs the fact that he can be a self contained artist.
(if you put jay in a studio alone, nothing would happen.
if you put kanye in a studio alone, be could create a dope track and rap on it well enough.)



hip hop heads tend to value lyricism, which is fine.
but i love great songs more than i love virtuosos, so
i tend to rate him really high.

I'd say he's easily one of the 3 best & most important hip-hop artists of the new millenium. And even though I didn't like "808s & Heartbreaks" or Yeezus", the dude is knocking on the door of being one of hip-hop's greatest.

He'd be on his iPhone for three days getting all of his Euro buddies to email him stem files.

Then he'd mix them together in a sloppy, half-ass fashion.

Then he'd call Rick Rubin, Prince, and Gwyneth Paltrow to help out with the arrangement.

Then he'd get DJ Premier to program and mix the hi-hat.

Then he'd rap on it.

I'd rather he just call someone else up and rap.

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

Exactly

i thought this post was about kanye's legacy.
if you put prince in a studio right now he's not going to come up with anything that matches the standard he set for himself.

who cares?
his past work speaks for itself.


besides, even if you think that kanye west the "auteur" makes crap music,
you can't use the fact that he's using other people to execute his vision as a knock against him.

george clinton doesn't really play or sing.
but he's the glue that holds p-funk together.
it just doesn't sound the same without him.




>He'd be on his iPhone for three days getting all of his Euro
>buddies to email him stem files.
>
>Then he'd mix them together in a sloppy, half-ass fashion.
>
>Then he'd call Rick Rubin, Prince, and Gwyneth Paltrow to help
>out with the arrangement.
>
>Then he'd get DJ Premier to program and mix the hi-hat.
>
>Then he'd rap on it.
>
>I'd rather he just call someone else up and rap.
>

That's been far from the truth for years now.

I get it, some of you bought in when he was making those cheesy beats in 2002 and you'll ride for him until the end of time.

I'm not that guy.

And Kanye West, since at least 2004, hasn't been a "self contained artist" in the least bit. He's had some damn good songs on every single one of his LPs since then, but come on. If we're talking pure musical talent, this dude barely charts.

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

that was my point.
you said he can't do that in 2013.
that doesn't matter. at one point, he was about as self contained as an artist can be.

and as for this...


>I get it, some of you bought in when he was making those
>cheesy beats in 2002 and you'll ride for him until the end of
>time.
>

all i know is that kanye west makes great songs.
maybe he sucks as a raper.
maybe he's more of a beat maker than a producer.
maybe he's corny or overrated and used to use too many crutches (the sped up soul samples and the congas).


we i won't even dispute any of that stuff
because the man has so many great songs that the nitpicks don't matter.

there are better rappers.
better producers.
but not many artists are behind the amount of good songs he has.
and for a while, it was pretty much all him.



>I'm not that guy.
>
>And Kanye West, since at least 2004, hasn't been a "self
>contained artist" in the least bit. He's had some damn good
>songs on every single one of his LPs since then, but come on.
>If we're talking pure musical talent, this dude barely
>charts.



when you say musical talent, what do you mean?
who are you comparing him to?

>there are better rappers.
>better producers.
>but not many artists are behind the amount of good songs he
>has.
>and for a while, it was pretty much all him.

He has undeniable classics on his resume. I'll never dispute that.

>when you say musical talent, what do you mean?
>who are you comparing him to?

I'm comparing him to The Neptunes, J Dilla, Battlecat, etc.

He's not like those guys. Battlecat doesn't even rap, but he has more musical talent in his fucked-up left pinky than Kanye has in his left and right brain. You're dense if you equate talent with "hits" this late in the game. I'll play "Paranoid" until my decks stop spinning, but you're crazy if you think I should compare him to someone like Dilla on the production tip.

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

i'd compare him to the neptunes before i'd compare him to dilla.
between the neptunes and kanye, i can't say who i'd rank higher.

i'm not up on battlecat.
i ain't mad at your response there though.


>I'm comparing him to The Neptunes, J Dilla, Battlecat, etc.
>
>He's not like those guys. Battlecat doesn't even rap, but he
>has more musical talent in his fucked-up left pinky than Kanye
>has in his left and right brain. You're dense if you equate
>talent with "hits" this late in the game. I'll play "Paranoid"
>until my decks stop spinning, but you're crazy if you think I
>should compare him to someone like Dilla on the production
>tip.
>

I don't think there are many that have redefined the boundaries of where Popular Rap can go. Obviously the underground has been doing crazier shit since the jump, but I cant think of anyone who has been able to do so at a commercial a level as he has. Not to say that commercial success is THE barometer of quality, but West creates Hits, and memorable songs that so far (IMO) are timeless and for the time they've been released usually pretty "out there".

Rap is such a multi-tiered genre, like most music, involving so many factors, lyrical skill, flow, song writing, hooks, etc.. But Kanye to me has to the be one of the most all around at this at all time. Every album hes released has songs that will go in the history books when looking back at this time.

-------------------
village.fm/okayplayer | @delajoo
"Whether you're a rock star or a garbage man, if you think about yourself all the time, you won't be very good at what you do." - Frusciante

I think you hit it on the head....I agree

I think you hit it on the head....I agree

but i can see why people would put them there

I could probably think of allot of people I would put before him in a list like that, but thats just me

he has had a great career, though its marred (IMO) by a couple shitty albums, but most great artists have shitty albums so its whatever point I guess

like people are saying in here though, lyrically though he isn't top anything

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

because its not just being an Artist as it is also about being a brand and of course his success with other acts helps his cause and his track record as a solo artist, albums, hit songs, tours, etc...

however he got lucky to be around in a time where other factors were as important as the music or some might say even more important than the music. to this generation his "808's and heartbreak" is the equal to LL COOL J's "walking with the Panther" and his comeback made folks forget to alot of folks a slight set back. all depends on where you sit on the fence with the cat.

i ain't big on him at all, however i see both sides of the argument and to a era raised on gadgets, tweets, facebook and other media outlets to hype an act he will be like a cross between Puffy and LL COOL J with a nod to Jay Z and alot of it is more cosmetic and hype than actual goods, however it ain't really his fault he hit at a particular time which allowed that to be accepted whereas in a different era he might well be stuck in a bin and used for some samples or forced to stay behind the boards

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills