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imcvspl
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Thu Sep-12-13 07:12 AM

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"Serendip: "How online advertising is killing music journalism""


  

          

Why yes it was just this week that I said "so much of what's called critical acclaim is really just sponsored advertising." Lo and behold!! And this is just one facet of it all.

http://noisey.vice.com/en_uk/blog/how-online-advertising-is-killing-music-journalism

Back in the mid-90s, I doubt Ryan Schreiber had any inkling of how successful his little blog would be. When Schrieber started Pitchfork in 1995, his goal was simply to write about bands he liked that weren't receiving mainstream press coverage. At that time, blogging was a hobby. It didn't hold the same clout (or money) as music journalism. It wasn't until 2002, when BlogAds launched the first broker of blog advertising, that this would begin to change. Now, as music journalism is going digital, the method by which publications make money from advertising is affecting the type of content produced. This should worry you.

This shift began in 2001 in the wake of Napster's shutdown. Sites like Fluxblog and Stereogum launched a new type of music blog that shared and reviewed single MP3s. For music fans, these sites served as discovery tools and sources of acquiring music in the absence of viable P2P services. Then, in 2004, a crucial study revealed that readership of blogs was exploding, up 58% from the previous year.

With the growth in readership came an increase in online advertising. In 2005, advertisers spent an estimated $100mm on blogs. In exchange for high reach and low costs, advertisers invested in blind networks like Google's Adsense or IndieClick; but for bloggers, these networks paid poorly. In response, blogs formed networks like BUZZMEDIA, which offered advertisers highly targeted campaigns at higher rates. Recently, print magazines such as SPIN and Complex started pooling together blogs to create their own networks (further blurring the distinctions between bloggers and music journalists).

So why is this important? As print publications move toward blogging, online advertising is becoming the lifeline of music journalism. Herein lies the problem: Online advertising is very different than print. To achieve the same payout as a full-page ad, online publications need to generate an absurd amount of page views. (For the record, I realize CPM isn't the only form of online advertising.) As a result, sites like SPIN and Complex are increasingly more focused on content that will garner traffic.



Maura Johnston describes this issue as the "Darwinistic page-view coverage of anything." The former Village Voice music editor's statement suggests how music writing is evolving around search engine optimization (SEO) techniques and shareable content. In a phone interview, Maura explained, "Shareable content is not about finding new things. Shareable content is about reinforcing already held positions that you have." The concern here is regarding whose positions are being reinforced. In Maura's opinion, the "the neutral point of view" is being shared which "reinforces the hegemonic structure that is already in place," thereby marginalizing minority perspectives.

At the Village Voice, Maura chose to write from a feminist perspective and provide cultural analysis, rather than create lists, assemble GIFs, or publish galleries of half-naked clubbers. Her nonconformity got her fired. In a post for NPR, Maura explained how this trend is affecting the type of content created:

Think pieces and reviews still existed, but they were accompanied by other attempts to lure readers: Trifles like album titles and track listings treated as news items worthy of their own "stories" (to maximize the possibility of people tripping over their fingers and into a unique view); artists out of the public spotlight for more than six months unearthed as if they were creatures from another dimension; Tweets and other public statements by artists taken out of context and drained of their tone so as to stoke "WTF" headlines; Superlative-laden lists not even aimed at expressing an opinion in count-downable form; Posts with factual errors seen as hits to institutional credibility and opportunities to wring double the traffic out of one story.

Common amongst these types of posts is an abbreviated writing style that prefers lazily regurgitating details, without providing any personal input.

This type of content is a byproduct of blogs' emphasis on SEO tactics. Shorter pieces lacking substance are easier to produce and enable blogs to post content first, which in turn helps the post rank higher in Google searches. This is by no means a new phenomenon. Several music bloggers (including yours truly) have discussed the downward spiral of posting first. Another strategy affecting content is known as “content farming.” Rather than write about what's undiscovered, publications choose topics based on the keyword terms for which Google ranks them higher.

In addition, while Ryan Schreiber may have started Pitchfork to write about obscure bands, the site now also writes about many mainstream artists. In an effort to reach larger demographics, blogs are creating link bait with highly searched band names or keyword phrases like "best new music." For every obscure band that isn't heavily searched, a website will produce double that amount of content around a highly searched term. "Every piece of media has to appeal to 'everyone,' and everyone is 18-45 and looks like the people making media," Maura explained to me.


Charles Avison, publisher of the first work of music journalism in the English language, An Essay On Musical Expression (1752).

With more music blogs than ever before, it is increasingly difficult to sift through the noise. Bloggers are implementing the same SEO tactics to grow their audience, which creates an over-production of similar content and a divide amongst bloggers who feel blogging should be about passion or making money. Freelance journalist and Rawkblog writer, David Greenwald, described blogging simply to make money as "disheartening." For David, music bloggers should post "things they love, things they're cheerleaders for." Zach Hart of We Listen For You took David's stance a step further, stating a blog loses authenticity once it posts content for the sole purpose of generating traffic.

What is most concerning is the fact that publications like Village Voice, SPIN or Complex are following the trend of creating content for traffic. Sure, these publications are businesses, but for junior-level music writers, this pattern perpetuates a bleak environment to nurture their writing skills. Young aspiring writers are encouraged to reproduce the same style of content in order to move up.

David explained to me that professional journalism "is not about covering what you love, it's about writing about what people are interested in." By this definition “journalism” is merely content that drives traffic (because people are interested in it). This seems to counter Maura's (a senior writer to David) belief that journalism should also spotlight lesser known facts: "You have these features that get traffic and the pressure from the higher ups are saying 'Do it again! Do it again!' It pushes out of the spotlight things that aren't known."

As a music blogger myself, I'm not saying long form writing is dead or if that's exactly what's missing; rather, I'd say there's a scarcity of well-constructed content. It's encouraging that some optimists believe there is a place for long form writing and analysis. Two weeks ago, Consequence of Sound, a site more noted for its short news blurbs and track descriptions, added a long form writing section. Plenty of sites including VICE, Grantland, The New Yorker, and The Qiuetus continue to write interesting, well-produced content. Good writing is not dead (man is that word used too often). It's just diminishing.

I actually think the savior of music writing lies in VICE's model, and I'm not just saying that because I like to write for them. In 2006, VICE launched Virtue, a full service marketing and branding agency that connects advertisers to a huge market spread across multiple verticals including Noisey (music), VICE (news), Motherboard (technology/science) and The Creators Project (art/events). Each channel is consistent with VICE's off-kilter style (allowing it to retain its racy, informative, new age, and satirical content), while providing advertisers a highly targeted demographic over multiple verticals. Future success of publications like VICE will depend on their ability to produce quality content, thereby growing their readership and retaining their journalistic integrity.

Online advertising isn't exactly killing journalism - that's just a catchy headline that assured I'd get a pageview. The methods of payments are just messing it up. Ultimately, readers will decide the fate of music writing and, I’d like to think, that uncertainty leaves open the door for plenty of possibilities.

****



█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: I'll just sidestep this by only listening to records. . .
Sep 12th 2013
1
smh
Sep 12th 2013
2
yep
Sep 12th 2013
3
I mean dude said the site he's working for is doing it best
Sep 12th 2013
4
Vice trolls us all
Sep 12th 2013
5
Ya'll know what I do for a living...I deal with this daily
Sep 12th 2013
6
What exactly haven't you seen?
Sep 12th 2013
7
      Well...to get to the meat of it all, because it's easy
Sep 14th 2013
9
           But look at what you did though...
Sep 15th 2013
11
                I was speaking mostly from what I do & I don't just do music
Sep 16th 2013
19
skimmed it since I didn't find it particularly revealing or engaging
Sep 12th 2013
8
right on, bro
Sep 14th 2013
10
Difference between this and two of your examples - agency
Sep 15th 2013
12
      RE: Difference between this and two of your examples - agency
Sep 15th 2013
13
           In disagreeing you touch on all my points... LOL!!
Sep 15th 2013
15
                RE: In disagreeing you touch on all my points... LOL!!
Sep 16th 2013
20
I think the most damaging part of this is how...
Sep 15th 2013
14
I'm confused as why you are acting like this is new.
Sep 16th 2013
16
I'm confused as to how you didn't read the second sentence
Sep 16th 2013
17
Totally agree...
Sep 16th 2013
18
And in our own backyard... Reviews section is gone
Sep 19th 2013
21
sad thing, i ain't even notice
Sep 19th 2013
22
      Nobody ever did, only time Reviews matter was when Quest still did em
Sep 21st 2013
23
      as an OK Reviews alum, I'm a little taken aback
Sep 22nd 2013
25
           no shots, maybe some of them were well done, I'm just being real
Sep 23rd 2013
28
                Oh we agree...in fact, everything you said was on point
Sep 23rd 2013
30
                     Now this I find quite interesting...
Sep 23rd 2013
31
      Neither did I...
Sep 22nd 2013
24
           I was on the Reviews team. I spit it true. I never siced my reviews
Sep 22nd 2013
26
           Not accusing anyone giving false praise for dough or anything like that....
Sep 22nd 2013
27
           I agree with everything you said but this part in particular:
Sep 23rd 2013
29
                RE: I agree with everything you said but this part in particular:
Sep 23rd 2013
32

Austin
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Thu Sep-12-13 08:28 AM

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1. "RE: I'll just sidestep this by only listening to records. . ."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

. . .that came out before I was born.

**wipes hands of this matter**

'choons:
"quite attractive." http://bit.ly/15NkawJ
"jacques (new mix)." http://bit.ly/17V33fa
"with henry james." http://bit.ly/1cIpnM6
"untitled 1.5." http://bit.ly/15688Px
"so whatever." http://bit.ly/15lOvSD

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
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Thu Sep-12-13 11:17 AM

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2. "smh"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


>Online advertising isn't exactly killing journalism - that's
>just a catchy headline that assured I'd get a pageview.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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Mash_Comp
Member since Jul 07th 2003
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Thu Sep-12-13 12:23 PM

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3. "yep"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

*********************
www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Sep-12-13 12:36 PM

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4. "I mean dude said the site he's working for is doing it best"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Obviously bullshit. But it doesn't discount the rest of it. Should have been on the personal blog though.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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BigReg
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Thu Sep-12-13 12:41 PM

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5. "Vice trolls us all"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

  

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Mash_Comp
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Thu Sep-12-13 12:46 PM

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6. "Ya'll know what I do for a living...I deal with this daily"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And maybe because I'm on the inside, I don't mind online ads and I truly don't think it has that much of an effect on the output. Now of course I get being swayed and/or money under the table schemes but I don't see that often on the spots I work for.

*********************
www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Sep-12-13 01:07 PM

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7. "What exactly haven't you seen?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

We aren't talking overt heavy handed practices here, we're talking things that have become part of the culture.

I mean think about this, sites, write two paragraph articles about what was written on another site. Then the whole trackbacking is used to give credit as a validation of the practice. Uhhhhh.... why?

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Mash_Comp
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Sat Sep-14-13 06:44 PM

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9. "Well...to get to the meat of it all, because it's easy"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

I wish I had a more elaborate answer but I don't.

Now, I don't think all sites do this and it's not just a "hip-hop journalism" thing either. HuffPost changed the game. Bloggers, Twitter and social media has as well.

Longform journalism in the Hip-Hop realm still works but the audience who cares about it is dwindling. We have meetings at my places of work and we're always careful to mix enough original stories with the rewrites or, as I call them, "dumb-downs." People read them, they get hits, our ad folks are happy and I keep my lights on.

*********************
www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Sun Sep-15-13 06:37 PM

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11. "But look at what you did though..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>I wish I had a more elaborate answer but I don't.

Because there's really no other defense for it. It's easy, and as you're about to say, standard practice across the board.

>Now, I don't think all sites do this and it's not just a
>"hip-hop journalism" thing either.

This is what you did though. Because nowhere in the thread or the thread before was it ever a question of 'hip-hop' journalism. It was about music journalism as a whole. Nobody is specifically calling hip-hop out for this.

>HuffPost changed the game.
>Bloggers, Twitter and social media has as well.

You mention everything but what pays the bills, in each and everyone of those cases. Advertising. Those guys didn't change the game, advertising changed *their* game and that's the crux of the issue.

>Longform journalism in the Hip-Hop realm still works but the
>audience who cares about it is dwindling. We have meetings at
>my places of work and we're always careful to mix enough
>original stories with the rewrites or, as I call them,
>"dumb-downs." People read them, they get hits, our ad folks
>are happy and I keep my lights on.

Thing is that the process of dumbing down the articles has dumbed down the reader. Folks quite literally just go off of headlines and click to see the picture. Nobody is reading shit. And the only place it makes any sense is in the ad sense.

For me the issue is less about long form journalism but the greying of journalistic integrity. Or perhaps the greying of editorial integrity. You can site exceptions and say how efforts are made to balance things out, but if you're balancing out journalism that lacks integrity, or if journalism that has integrity is the exception, there's a problem.

I'm not trying to knock anyone paying bills, especially considering ways I've had to pay mine, but I am saying the culture is fucked, and getting close to beyond repair. I'll keep looking for those exceptions though.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Mash_Comp
Member since Jul 07th 2003
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Mon Sep-16-13 09:05 AM

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19. "I was speaking mostly from what I do & I don't just do music"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>This is what you did though. Because nowhere in the thread or
>the thread before was it ever a question of 'hip-hop'
>journalism. It was about music journalism as a whole. Nobody
>is specifically calling hip-hop out for this.
>

I was writing on a smartphone so I omitted some things/facts. I write primarily Hip-Hop and breaking national news.

>>HuffPost changed the game.
>>Bloggers, Twitter and social media has as well.
>
>You mention everything but what pays the bills, in each and
>everyone of those cases. Advertising. Those guys didn't
>change the game, advertising changed *their* game and that's
>the crux of the issue.
>

But those mediums help feed the other and if you don't see that being the case, I certainly won't argue over it.

>Thing is that the process of dumbing down the articles has
>dumbed down the reader. Folks quite literally just go off of
>headlines and click to see the picture. Nobody is reading
>shit. And the only place it makes any sense is in the ad
>sense.
>

We agree. I am not happy about it but it's the reality.

>For me the issue is less about long form journalism but the
>greying of journalistic integrity. Or perhaps the greying of
>editorial integrity. You can site exceptions and say how
>efforts are made to balance things out, but if you're
>balancing out journalism that lacks integrity, or if
>journalism that has integrity is the exception, there's a
>problem.
>

But there's this. I don't have this doomsday feeling that journalists are corrupted by the lure of money and ad placements. That doesn't happen where I work. We're very careful not to advance any causes in our work or write fluff for a product. If we do product review and it sucks and they pay us ad money, we'll still shit on it.

>I'm not trying to knock anyone paying bills, especially
>considering ways I've had to pay mine, but I am saying the
>culture is fucked, and getting close to beyond repair. I'll
>keep looking for those exceptions though.
>

There's still some good left, bro. I believe that. Or rather, I have to.

*********************
www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi

  

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Bombastic
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8. "skimmed it since I didn't find it particularly revealing or engaging"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

enough to comb through but I guess I just don't see what is supposedly so different about any of this compared to pre-internet industry activities like the Source's shenanigans, Rolling Stone taking star-assigning away from their reviewers, Heart's manager prying DJ's with hookers/blow to play 'Baracuda' or any other example of when the business of the music business reveals itself to be just that.

The field of play (online via music-based websites) is different but the song has remained the same for long before the internet came.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

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Mash_Comp
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10. "right on, bro"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

*********************
www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Sun Sep-15-13 07:35 PM

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12. "Difference between this and two of your examples - agency"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

>enough to comb through but I guess I just don't see what is
>supposedly so different about any of this compared to
>pre-internet industry activities like the Source's
>shenanigans

There was an agent (not in the artist representative but in the a human being trying to push their desires) in this example. So when it all falls a part it's easy to point to that agent as being the thing damaging journalistic integrity and steps could be taken to correct that.

>Rolling Stone taking star-assigning away from
>their reviewers

This was the precursor to what we see today. Reviews based not on the reviewers thoughts but a pooled assessment of an acceptable review.

> Heart's manager prying DJ's with hookers/blow
>to play 'Baracuda'

Again another agent (or a few including those that took the bribes) who can be removed and 'integrity' restored (in quotes because I'm not trying to pretend it was all good, just show the difference).

>or any other example of when the business
>of the music business reveals itself to be just that.

It's been a progress though, to the point where we are today where music journalism has been saved only by completely turning its integrity over to the business side.

>The field of play (online via music-based websites) is
>different but the song has remained the same for long before
>the internet came.

Except now the song is coming to an end and being replaced by search algorithms. go figure.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Bombastic
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13. "RE: Difference between this and two of your examples - agency"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

>>enough to comb through but I guess I just don't see what is
>>supposedly so different about any of this compared to
>>pre-internet industry activities like the Source's
>>shenanigans
>
>There was an agent (not in the artist representative but in
>the a human being trying to push their desires) in this
>example. So when it all falls a part it's easy to point to
>that agent as being the thing damaging journalistic integrity
>and steps could be taken to correct that.
>
but that's just an example, not one specific element that gets flushed out & renders the rest of it clean.

>>Rolling Stone taking star-assigning away from
>>their reviewers
>
>This was the precursor to what we see today. Reviews based
>not on the reviewers thoughts but a pooled assessment of an
>acceptable review.
>
right.

>> Heart's manager prying DJ's with hookers/blow
>>to play 'Baracuda'
>
>Again another agent (or a few including those that took the
>bribes) who can be removed and 'integrity' restored (in quotes
>because I'm not trying to pretend it was all good, just show
>the difference).
>
>>or any other example of when the business
>>of the music business reveals itself to be just that.
>
>It's been a progress though, to the point where we are today
>where music journalism has been saved only by completely
>turning its integrity over to the business side.
>
I disagree.

First, there's far more outlets than any music-industry honks could hope to control or influence.

Second, music journalism (particularly on the hip-hop side) has been mostly dead for damn near a decade now.

Reviews of a record or news blurbs don't qualify for me.

I rarely read anything at a music-based online that reads like it required any real degree of research, brings me into its story, is written with any kind of style or distinctive point of view.

Rolling Stone will still crank out a good long-form piece like the Boston Bomber or Aaron Hernandez, have a Taibbi column that stings or maybe a story on Dylan/Bowie/Berry/Wilson Pickett/etc but rarely anything of note with something current.

And the online stuff is far worse off than that.

>>The field of play (online via music-based websites) is
>>different but the song has remained the same for long before
>>the internet came.
>
>Except now the song is coming to an end and being replaced by
>search algorithms. go figure.
>
there's still many more variations brought about from search algorithms than there was via pre-internet channels via radio/MTV/print.

I'm not saying I'm happy about it but it is a business, those that care will have to sift thru information the same way we do cable-news & whatever else then process it through our own filter.

I'm guessing Okayplayer's reviews are 'non-corrupted' but in the end I don't particularly care, read or respect them anyway.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Sun Sep-15-13 11:19 PM

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15. "In disagreeing you touch on all my points... LOL!!"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

>I disagree.
>
>First, there's far more outlets than any music-industry honks
>could hope to control or influence.

I agree with the first part but not so much with the second. IMO this wormhole opened up because the industry honks saw the traffic that blogs were getting and started hiring the bloggers. Never mind their ability to write, their ability to draw traffic would suffice. AND bloggers turned music journalist were easy to edit and direct.

>Second, music journalism (particularly on the hip-hop side)
>has been mostly dead for damn near a decade now.

Agree with that. Began with the decline in print, which incidentally can be attributed not just in reader interest going online, but advertiser interest as well. One of the interesting things about when there was print is that there was always a system of checks an balances (unless you were in the free paper route). Namely advertisers paid for ads based on subscribers, and subscribers came to magazines not for the ads but for the writing. If you started a new mag you could sell a shit ton of advertisers for your first couple of issues, but if you weren't getting the subscriptions you went under. Incidentally this was why so many hip-hop oriented pubs would go under. Despite how much we may have loved them, mofo's ain't subscribe. If you dind't hve a subscriber base advertisers pulled out. And then at the end when mags atarted selling every other page as advertisements and failing at content, the readers pulled out.

Today some places still have preimium ad space, but so much of it is no longer a direct relationship with the pubs ad manager directly soliciting and securing advertisers. Instead algorithms place relevant ads based on content. The ad rate for your pub is greatly determined by your search relevance, search relevance is measured in clicks (not reads), clicks are generated by headlines (not content), and headlines are written by everyone else but the journalist.

It's a problem. As I said elsewhere I'm not even sure if its fixable.

>Reviews of a record or news blurbs don't qualify for me.
>
>I rarely read anything at a music-based online that reads like
>it required any real degree of research, brings me into its
>story, is written with any kind of style or distinctive point
>of view.
>
>Rolling Stone will still crank out a good long-form piece like
>the Boston Bomber or Aaron Hernandez, have a Taibbi column
>that stings or maybe a story on Dylan/Bowie/Berry/Wilson
>Pickett/etc but rarely anything of note with something
>current.
>
>And the online stuff is far worse off than that.

I agree with all of this and while not the only culprit I think much of it does stem from what I describe above.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Bombastic
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Mon Sep-16-13 01:47 PM

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20. "RE: In disagreeing you touch on all my points... LOL!!"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>>I disagree.
>>
>>First, there's far more outlets than any music-industry
>honks
>>could hope to control or influence.
>
>I agree with the first part but not so much with the second.
>IMO this wormhole opened up because the industry honks saw the
>traffic that blogs were getting and started hiring the
>bloggers. Never mind their ability to write, their ability to
>draw traffic would suffice. AND bloggers turned music
>journalist were easy to edit and direct.
>
but most people in the know don't take these folks words any more seriously than they do the fake-sports-journalists of SB Nation/Yard Barker or the fake culture critics at Vice.com.

I'm pretty sure all those sites accept content from would-be-writers submitting work for free or close enough.

And there's still plenty of folks operating outside the realm of industry passed-downs & promo.

You can even say us having conversations here is part of that.

>>Second, music journalism (particularly on the hip-hop side)
>>has been mostly dead for damn near a decade now.
>
>Agree with that. Began with the decline in print, which
>incidentally can be attributed not just in reader interest
>going online, but advertiser interest as well. One of the
>interesting things about when there was print is that there
>was always a system of checks an balances (unless you were in
>the free paper route). Namely advertisers paid for ads based
>on subscribers, and subscribers came to magazines not for the
>ads but for the writing. If you started a new mag you could
>sell a shit ton of advertisers for your first couple of
>issues, but if you weren't getting the subscriptions you went
>under. Incidentally this was why so many hip-hop oriented
>pubs would go under. Despite how much we may have loved them,
>mofo's ain't subscribe. If you dind't hve a subscriber base
>advertisers pulled out. And then at the end when mags atarted
>selling every other page as advertisements and failing at
>content, the readers pulled out.
>
>Today some places still have preimium ad space, but so much of
>it is no longer a direct relationship with the pubs ad manager
>directly soliciting and securing advertisers. Instead
>algorithms place relevant ads based on content. The ad rate
>for your pub is greatly determined by your search relevance,
>search relevance is measured in clicks (not reads), clicks are
>generated by headlines (not content), and headlines are
>written by everyone else but the journalist.
>
>It's a problem. As I said elsewhere I'm not even sure if its
>fixable.
>
It's companies trying to monetize profits on the internet, its pervasiveness is both understandable & so much further-reaching than this field that the flailing music-industry model is barely a speck on the overall canvas of web commerce.

People been trying to sell things since the beginning of time, they've just created a few new approaches to doing so in order to exist in the current environment.

>>Reviews of a record or news blurbs don't qualify for me.
>>
>>I rarely read anything at a music-based online that reads
>like
>>it required any real degree of research, brings me into its
>>story, is written with any kind of style or distinctive
>point
>>of view.
>>
>>Rolling Stone will still crank out a good long-form piece
>like
>>the Boston Bomber or Aaron Hernandez, have a Taibbi column
>>that stings or maybe a story on Dylan/Bowie/Berry/Wilson
>>Pickett/etc but rarely anything of note with something
>>current.
>>
>>And the online stuff is far worse off than that.
>
>I agree with all of this and while not the only culprit I
>think much of it does stem from what I describe above.
>
>█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
>Big PEMFin H & z's
>"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1
>thing, a musician." © Miles
>
>"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Sun Sep-15-13 10:53 PM

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14. "I think the most damaging part of this is how..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...it trickles down to artists. I mean sure labels have always wanted folks following trends, and the copycat phenomena is ages old, but today it just seems so much more prevalent, particularly with the close relationship the record industry and advertising licensing that has developed. So many artists are bing pushed to make licensable music... *sigh*

There is no adventure in licensing music, it is by definition MOR and where labels are pushing for more and more MOR, the people with the talent to do more musically will be forced to dumb down or suffer in obscurity. Not that there weren't plenty talented people suffering in obscurity before, but I digress.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Mon Sep-16-13 03:15 AM

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16. "I'm confused as why you are acting like this is new."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

> the
>people with the talent to do more musically will be forced to
>dumb down or suffer in obscurity.

This has been tried and true for almost 20 years now, if not longer.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Mon Sep-16-13 08:04 AM

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17. "I'm confused as to how you didn't read the second sentence"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Remedial
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Mon Sep-16-13 08:53 AM

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18. "Totally agree..."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

That's why, for the most part, I avoid radio almost entirely and music video channels almost to the same extent. It seems that music today is made solely to sell products so that the artists can get more endorsements/payments, etc...

Although I do spend most days focusing on my own music nowadays and don't listen to even 1/16th the amount of music that I did about 5 years ago (at one point, I was listening to about 3 new albums EVERY DAY), I can say that there is still a HELLA lot good music out there, but, as has always been the problem with the casual listener, they rely SOLELY on radio and now, blogs to let them know what they should be listening to.

So, since blogs will only promote those artists that generate hits, we get the same trash recycled.

But, the new advent, in my opinion, is people literally regurgitating the popular opinions available on the internet (blogs) or automatically giving a pass to any trash that an "advertising accepted" artist puts out.

We can see it most recently with the trash that Drake just put out called Wu-Tang Forever. Now, I AM A DRAKE FAN, but we have to be willing to call basura, basura. But, like I said in another post, not only do folks want to be the first to post, but they want to be the first to praise so that they can say they were the first to endorse it. So, EVERYBODY loves a new song/album until it fails at market, but, no need to recant or admit inaccuracy because, by that time, they're on to the next hype beast.

So, yeah, the music game is very cannibalistic at this time in history, where artists are not afraid to serve as advertising platforms. This is now ACCEPTED. But, until that flames out, I'll be searching for the next underground act that makes the untainted music that I love and talk about it on here with similar minds...

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Sep-19-13 05:57 PM

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21. "And in our own backyard... Reviews section is gone"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Far easier to tote the line I guess. *sigh*

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Mash_Comp
Member since Jul 07th 2003
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Thu Sep-19-13 11:56 PM

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22. "sad thing, i ain't even notice"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

*********************
www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi

  

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Bombastic
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23. "Nobody ever did, only time Reviews matter was when Quest still did em"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

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Mash_Comp
Member since Jul 07th 2003
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Sun Sep-22-13 02:04 PM

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25. "as an OK Reviews alum, I'm a little taken aback"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

*********************
www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi

  

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Bombastic
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Mon Sep-23-13 03:59 AM

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28. "no shots, maybe some of them were well done, I'm just being real"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

I don't think people were checking OKP for its reviews any more than I think cats on this board have been checking the front page since angieee left.

Didn't really read the Reviews section much but when I did the whole thing had a written-by-college-interns or folks-looking-to-get-a-portfolio-going, everyone-gets-a-ribbon kinda feel.

To me music reviews in earlier eras/formats used to have personality, its authors had their own styles, the best ones existed as sort of place-markers for the moment in time or environment an album dropped which later gave it context, created discussion, in short *mattered* in some kind of way.

Greil Marcus opening his review of Self Portrait with 'What is this shit?' happened seven years before I was born but I just saw it referenced this month.

Nas' debut getting five mics set the tone for the legacy & burden he's lived with for the rest of his career.

Part of the process of ingesting the latest work for any halfway respectable music-nerd was reading what certain tastemakers were gonna say about it and actually putting money down to read that shit in print.

Here you had a reviews section one click away & still couldn't be bothered.

They didn't even generate discussion in The Lesson let alone anywhere else.

I still remember the 'Fear Of A Black Planet' review in Village Voice where they basically took PE to task for their contradictory messages while ignoring the music almost entirely as if they were a political organization rather than a rap group or the Nas 'I Am' review in City Paper that did the whole review with "Nas Is Like" as the beginning of each sentence.

Both of those two would read ridiculous now but they also display where things were at for better or worse: PE's impact WAS that serious in the late 80's/early-90's that they started being treated like a political action committee. Nas DID actually make even some of his own fans that mad in the late 90's due to the benchmark he set in 1994.

People get mad at Pitchfork, a site I don't check, however when folks have posted reviews here that they're outraged over they seem to be the only ones that come close to capturing that feel.

Most online reviews seem scared to have an opinion or angle that dips too far above or below whatever its metacritic average is.......or maybe they don't wanna be seen as 'haters' and/or 'dickriders'.

It's all conspired to create a 'seen one, seen em all' environment (not limiting this to OKP, speaking in general) & I don't really get what these cats are really trying to accomplish by doing them.

There's barely any money in record sales so I'm damn sure there's next to no money at all in online record reviewing.

So if writing is something you can actually do and you hope folks might remember your name, might as well let your nuts hang.

OKP in general has made countless efforts to branch out & monetize since the early 2000s (perhaps some have worked in helping keep the lights on so I'm good with them) but the reality is that the heart/soul of this place is its message boards.

I'd rather read a post here discussing a new album than a review & I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

If music criticism has now devolved into a faceless, anybody-can-do-it, click-my-blog-link existence then I'd rather see it in a thread format with direct interaction and people challenging each other back-and-forth rather than see someone giving me 250 words & an 87 score for J-Live's last album.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

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Mash_Comp
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Mon Sep-23-13 10:10 AM

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30. "Oh we agree...in fact, everything you said was on point"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

I don't hate Pitchfork, although I find a lot of it exhaustive. My favorite music reviewer is Jesse Fairfax of HipHopDX and sometimes, Justin Hunte does well too. But the bottom line is, I really don't care about "critics" talking about LPs. I rather read "fans" talking music, even if it's sometimes misguided and/or tense on here.

*********************
www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Mon Sep-23-13 10:29 AM

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31. "Now this I find quite interesting..."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>But the
>bottom line is, I really don't care about "critics" talking
>about LPs. I rather read "fans" talking music, even if it's
>sometimes misguided and/or tense on here.

For the most part I agree. But the whole idea of fan opinions making reviews moot is interesting. I tend to trust handfuls of fans here and elsewhere to put me on to new stuff. I think my favorite moe of discovery has been when the listening rooms were poppin off regular. But I still buy The Wire when I can find it and read the reviews while I take a shit.

For the most part I don't read online music shit unless it's really in depth about something (usually not someone) that I'm really interested in, because most of the someone shit I just see as part of the paid promo cycle. I'd rather interact with folk than read individual opinions and PR fodder. But there are subtle nuances that you just don't get from fans. Like apparently there's a bunch of shit about the Janelle album that has been revealed in the interviews and features she's doing. Haven't read anything about them so I may be missing on a grip of the story until a fan decides to share what they read with me.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Remedial
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24. "Neither did I..."
In response to Reply # 22
Sun Sep-22-13 05:12 AM by Remedial

  

          

But I'm not surprised. Here's the thing, those reviews were WAY more The Source or XXL than they were Pitchfork or Village Voice. And, just knowing the outlay of the land here on OKP, WE would have more gravitated towards the latter. Now, I totally understand Quest's need to attract folks outside of us to the website, but, I felt like the whole reviews system should have been built to attract those of us that frequent the site FIRST and then rope in the loose cattle after.

Meaning, I've been a member since '99 and my visitation fluctuates. There's been years where I haven't been on here ONCE and years like this latter part of 2013 where I'm checking the Lesson everyday.

Now, if the chosen reviewers were cats who I KNEW have been vetted by their time in the trenches on here and I KNEW were going to give me an in-depth review along with simply an entertaining read, those years where I was practicing abstention, that might have been the one thing I would have come back to check for. Kind of how so many folks look forward to Big Ghost's reviews of albums.

But, the fluff pieces just didn't cut it. If we're ready to pass the stage of denial, we are a cabal of music nerds and need to embrace that first before expecting others to embrace us.

I will say, it WAS great for finding out what new music was out there, though.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

  

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Mash_Comp
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26. "I was on the Reviews team. I spit it true. I never siced my reviews"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

I tried to be as fair and honest as I could be. I didn't puff up a thing. But yeah, I do understand what you're saying...matter of fact, your stance is a brilliant one.

*********************
www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi

  

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Remedial
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Sun Sep-22-13 02:24 PM

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27. "Not accusing anyone giving false praise for dough or anything like that...."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

>I tried to be as fair and honest as I could be. I didn't puff
>up a thing. But yeah, I do understand what you're
>saying...matter of fact, your stance is a brilliant one.

I more meant that the reviews were so sparse that I'm sure none of the writers really had enough room to expound very much, which I found in all of those reviews I read I'm pretty sure there was a word limit (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Thanks for finding my stance palatable.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

  

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Bombastic
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29. "I agree with everything you said but this part in particular:"
In response to Reply # 24
Mon Sep-23-13 04:13 AM by Bombastic

  

          

>Now, if the chosen reviewers were cats who I KNEW have been
>vetted by their time in the trenches on here and I KNEW were
>going to give me an in-depth review along with simply an
>entertaining read, those years where I was practicing
>abstention, that might have been the one thing I would have
>come back to check for. Kind of how so many folks look
>forward to Big Ghost's reviews of albums.
>
>But, the fluff pieces just didn't cut it. If we're ready to
>pass the stage of denial, we are a cabal of music nerds and
>need to embrace that first before expecting others to embrace
>us.
>
There used to be a synergy between this site's identity and the people who frequented it. Not just on the boards but the whole site & its offshoots.

As time moves on there's been sort of a growing disconnect of what OKP seems to want to be and what it actually is.

The Reviews section was emblematic of that.

How are you gonna bring in new visitors to check for something you can't even manage to crossover to the OKPs who are already here and have been here?

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

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Remedial
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32. "RE: I agree with everything you said but this part in particular:"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          


>There used to be a synergy between this site's identity and
>the people who frequented it. Not just on the boards but the
>whole site & its offshoots.

Yup.

>As time moves on there's been sort of a growing disconnect of
>what OKP seems to want to be and what it actually is.

Yes! And, I can understand why Quest has done that. Anyone would LOVE to go from fronting the bill for a labor of love to turning it into a viable stream of income. And, I feel he deserves it for all the years he has kept the light on for us, BUT, these aspirations of a more mainstream connect should be inclusive of the folks found round these parts.

>The Reviews section was emblematic of that.
>
>How are you gonna bring in new visitors to check for something
>you can't even manage to crossover to the OKPs who are already
>here and have been here?

Hit it right on the head. I do feel that for a longtime, OKP has been a place of tastemakers way before it became cool to be that (or at least pretend to be) and if even WE aren't excited about the Reviews section, I highly doubt that those folks that come to siphon our opinions are going to latch onto it either.

But, as always, I COULD be wrong, but that's just my 0.02.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

  

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