"UOENO if I ever heard the song but in retrospect" Mon Jul-22-13 09:14 AM by MISTA MONOTONE
Hip-hop really should have stood stronger behind Rick Ross and freedom of speech. It probably wouldn't have protected his Reebok contract but his right to say it should have been clear. Hip-Hop should never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever have to be politically correct. The only thing a hip-hop MC should actively avoid is wackness. And of course by the subject line I'm more than willing to accept that example (and the one below) may be wack but then hip-hop should only attack on the grounds of wackness not some acceptable PC shit.
If MC's are going to have to start appologizing to every group they might potentially offend in their efforts to show they are the baddest on the mic... yeah that's a fucking oxymoron.
1. "nope" In response to Reply # 0 Mon Jul-22-13 09:12 AM by philpot
it's beyond time that hip-hop grew up & stopped making excuses for grown men promoting bullshit in the name of the art, especially when they're shitty artists to start out w/
no censorship but as fans & hip-hoppers of a certain age or maturity level its time to hold these guys accountable for their bullshit
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
2. "what if Christian groups would have protested Live at the BBQ?" In response to Reply # 1
>it's beyond time that hip-hop grew up & stopped making >excuses for grown men promoting bullshit in the name of the >art > >no censorship but as fans & hip-hoppers of a certain age or >maturity levrl its time to hold these guys accountable for >their bullshit
and removed his verse from the single and album? what what have become of Nas' career?
9. "i choose "Be a Father to your Child"" In response to Reply # 4
i'll choose that side of the hip-hop tradition
again, I am NOT advocating censorship but i'm not trippin at ppl holding dudes responsible for their bullshit
i think one of the first times i *truly* had to look in the mirror & ask myself what i would accept from rap was this Necro album i bought in like 99 or 2k...it was horrible & offensive from the content to the album art & no amount of ill boom bap dust (cause he was dope as hell on the beats) was gonna make me accept that shit...i tossed the CD out a car window
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
5. "first, it's 2013 not 1991" In response to Reply # 2
meaning that the ability to say offensive shit is a something from a bygone age, something needed at that time to give the culture power...now it is something that 's cliche & holds it's progression back imo
THAT SAID, again, censorship is not the way to go, but FANS & STUDENTS & ADHERENTS to the art, many of whom are approaching or have reached middle age & have families/etc, need to not let rappers slide saying foul shit just bc they're rappers, refusing to do so is holding onto a dead ethos as noted above, that shit is not rebellious anymore, it's like become akin to the concept of repressive desublimation imo
finally, we're talikin about rick ross & j cole, not nas, fuck those guys/hacks lol
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
7. "My bad did Jesus Christ come back in 2012 and I missed it?" In response to Reply # 5
Did the moral fiber of this fucked up country somehow get to the point where being a black male is no longer offensive, but considered a social norm to be treated like any other class of human being?
10. "i can't believe ur trying to make this a racial issue" In response to Reply # 7 Mon Jul-22-13 09:35 AM by philpot
i don't correlate being a black male w/ being offensive
i've already mentioned Necro, he's white, idgaf the race of the asshole saying stupid shit
so if America is fucked up, instead of following suit, DO BETTER
and i'll say for the 50-11th time, i am NOT advocating censorship...
also, again, this bullshit is past the point of being "rebellious"..."they" want rap to stagnate & support this BS & refuse to grow, no matter the feigned offense
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
13. "but to your points" In response to Reply # 10
You know how much money there is in horror movies. There's a whole show on TV dedicated to sex crimes.
There are characters within them that do some of the most seediest shit imaginable. If Rick Ross can't embody one of them on wax then they shouldn't be able to exist on screen.
33. "RE: but to your points" In response to Reply # 13
No no no, im not a fan of people consistently comparing movies and music, the difference is almost categorical in my opinion...for one it is assumed and accepted that robert deniro is not really a murder killer, rapist etc ..its known he is acting which completely differentiates the conversation automatically, now if u wanna talk about theres too much violence and misogyny in television and movies thats fine but to me thats an ancillary conversation. Rappers maintain that their statements, what they talk about, how they portray their lives hold a high level of veracity, matter fact rappers will become infuriated and frenetic you question the truth of what they are saying
only way imo can the comparison between hiphop and movies gain parity is if all of hiphop in a magnanimous fashion proclaim that nothing we talk about is real, its all fake, we are just acting. Until such a time comes how bought we keep rick ross responsible for talking about raping women
46. "RE: rappers have to admit the obvious? " In response to Reply # 41
Your assumption is that its obvious, an assumption which I dont subscribe to especially when it comes to children...secondly yes they must if the argument in defense of hiphop consists of "well look at the movies and actors, they rape pillage village women and children as well" when clearly those individuals are acting...call a rapper an actor when he talks about drug dealing and his reaction should tell how "obvious" it
39. "RE: Anyone that doesn't know rappers are characters in 2013..." In response to Reply # 34
I hope that subject lines applies to children and adolescents who from ur opinion it seems must be unintelligent for not recognizing that rappers are characters ... -_-
But thats neither here nor there and i am just in disagreement with your point of view and id rather not devolve into name calling or insulting each other intelligence..
that being said, Who said anything about the common populace, we're talking about what rappers say about themselves and what hiphop says about itself. The question of whether or not i can ascertain if hiphop has become a caricature of itself at times is not pertinent to the conversation because you postulated the idea of comparing movies and hiphop...concisely call denzel a great actor in training day he will say thank you, call rick ross a great actor he is going to throw his 50 piece lemon pepper wingstop combo at you
once again when rappers and hiphop as a whole tell everyone, sorry folks this is all an act, then yes I am in agreement with you
Sidebar: I fully recognize the reprehensible nature of the racial inequities of the entertainment business, and the substantial privilege afforded to white actors, rappers, singers, entertainers etc.
3. "do you know how many wack mc's died in gas chambers like jews?" In response to Reply # 1
jesus has been snuffed, presidents shot, married women raped, children murdered, grown men sodomized, the whole white race.... man don't even get me started on the whole white race.
i'm not going to retrospectively say that none of those things should have happened and as such i won't say rappers today should have limits as to where they can go with it.
in the context of ross it was wack. and part of the reason it was wack is the same reason that he was criticized on the pc tip. but the way to critique is from the point of it being wack, not because it's not pc.
17. "each individual i guess" In response to Reply # 16
like, me personally im not gonna cosign someone who has the ear of lots off ppl promoting date rape or mocking autistic ppl, regardless of what else is out there that promotes foul shit too...im not gonna call for censorship or banning but im not gonna waste my time defending it in the name of hip hop
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
18. "Then you're looking at it the wrong way" In response to Reply # 17
Me saying Rick Ross has the right to say whatever the fuck he wants (and deal with the consequences ie losing a Reebok contract) does not equate to me supporting whatever the fuck he says (meaning the message behind his words). I haven't even heard the song, shit can't name another ross song beside hoover. I think the line in question is wack. I don't support it or him financially. But allowing those on the outside to censor nah... fuck all that.
Real talk this is the type of thing I wish hip-hop was better at self policing. Like there's so many ways that line could be used against him in a MCing hip-hop context. That's where it deserves to be analyzed and mocked.
this is not Hip-Hop's problem. it's Rick Ross's problem. if he bowed to the pressure from various private entities to change that lyric that's on him. H-H has nothing to do w/that.
23. "I didn't get to deep in it... but" In response to Reply # 20
I saw a lot of backlash from within hip-hop which supported those private entities. That's really who I'm talking about. As I said they have every right to pull their $ and he can do whatever he wants. But hip-hop shouldn't be hopping on the dogpile as it's only going to snowball to dumb shit like the J Cole one.
35. "i mean either one on one or in music" In response to Reply # 30
back and forth twitter debates by hip-hop pundits make us all look dumb as fuck. and yeah i'll take the 'back and forth on message boards by hip-hop e thugs make us all look dumb as fuck' L but I'm trying to make a point gotdamnit!! LOL!!
Fa real i didn't really follow the initial blah blah blah, but every time i looked up there was some hip-hop someone trying to say something about how bad Rick Ross was for not being PC. There's so many ways to put it without making it seem like rap has to be PC. But nope everyone toted the well spun angle. And that's niggas picking out the gun they gonna shoot you with.
38. "i understand the perspective" In response to Reply # 35
but it's good for "hip-hoppers" to debate & have different views on things related to the culture bc being strictly dogmatic & thinking we all have to think in lockstep is fascistic & will NOT end well
that said, YES i am very aware that i have been & am at times still guilty of trying to have it "one way" myself
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
40. "RE: each individual i guess" In response to Reply # 17
>like, me personally im not gonna cosign someone who has the >ear of lots off ppl promoting date rape or mocking autistic >ppl, regardless of what else is out there that promotes foul >shit too...im not gonna call for censorship or banning but im >not gonna waste my time defending it in the name of hip hop >
I feel you on that and agree. I just think ppl have a right to express themselves. I also think ppl have a right to call BS
19. "his 'right to say it' was never at issue." In response to Reply # 0
no gov't tried to shut him down. only private entities. and those private entities have as much 'right' to express their discontent w/those lyrics as Rick has to rap those lyrics.
32. "I love the way your stance boils down to" In response to Reply # 29
Yeah it was cool when I was a kid, but kids today should be above that.
You're grown. You're too old to listen. You're too old to support this stuff. Fine but don't shut down the kids rights to talk dumb shit in a rhyme rather than actually doing dumb shit in real life (mutual exclusivity and all dat), especially if they're being creative about it. If it's not creative, its wack. If it's not creative and tasteless it's extra wack.
36. "it's not that simple but even if it was..." In response to Reply # 32
as a father u think i let my kids slide on doing ignorant dumb shit bc i didn't think i was wrong when i beat up my little sister or stole from the collection plate when i was a kid?
apart from that, its not like im on some crusade to save hip-hop from young knuckleheads, but if a rapper says som'n dumb, gets called out for it, i'm not crying for hip-hop when the dummy said some dumb ass shit
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
31. "RE: Did you see the J Cole one though?" In response to Reply # 24
That's on Cole though. No one is forcing him to do anything. If you don't like these guys folding up when someone is offended, that is on the rapper.
Rapper has the right to say what he wants. People who are offended have the right to speak on that or act on that with their dollars. Rapper has the right to respond to that in any way they see fit.
Cole coulda shrugged it off but according to him, he really feels bad that he said the line. So your problem lies strictly with him.
43. "yeah but I read Cole's thoughts on it & felt he was actually sincere" In response to Reply # 24
Rawse semi-apologized with the 'if I offended anyone' blubbery blather legal statement in an effort to try to save a Pepsi contract (or whatever corporate sponsor he had).
Cole wrote an honest assessment of his own realization after reading complaints made by actual autistic people online.
I do not think that will lead to an op-ed piece from Reggie Noble expressing his concern for cerebral-palsy sufferers.
44. "I Don't Know If Hip Hop Needed To Stand Behind Ross" In response to Reply # 0
I mean I did hear quite a few people say that Reebok was wrong in dropping him for that line but I don't know if it required a million MC march. I honestly think most people were like "who cares?". I do agree with you though that this whole age of political correctness is wack. Fuck that say what you want and then stand by it. I said a long time ago that most of what people say on record they would never stand behind if someone called them on it because a lot of these dudes is just saying shit that's popular so they don't really have a vested interest in their "freedom" to say shit anyways. They're are just repeating what they think people want to hear. It reminds me not just of the hypocrisy of films but of stand up comedy. If you stand on stage and jokingly say some shit it's not generally going to be under the same scrutiny as if you spit it in a verse. That was always one of my main issues with Oprah and others with their campaign against Nigger (no I will not say N word). Oprah had a whole damn show about it, had Jay and 50 on other shows and basically grilled them about it and let them know her dislike of the word and how we should stop using it but she has never to the best of my knowledge challenged Eddie Murphy or Chris Rock on their use of the word and they have both been on her show several times. It's like rapping some shit is somehow different than it appearing in a Scorsese flick or in a stand up comedians routine.
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