bavid dammer Member since Oct 23rd 2012 1369 posts
Sun Jul-07-13 07:52 PM
"the proving ground for a song/album is not studio or club monitors."
for the last time, but renewed relevancy with yeezus being debuted in concert and magna carta in studio monitors...
the tracks sound good and then you get it cornered in a room by itself and it folds like laundry. full of all types of frays hiding behind a heavy bottom, the story of most rap music of the last 10 years...
anyway, for the last time - everything bumps. everything bangs. everything does not hold up beyond reproach in headphones.
headphones are the equivalent of a sonic microscope. the real proving ground is the headphone, not the club/studio monitors.
1. "i'm glad you didn't say the whip" In response to Reply # 0
i agree and will go one step further to say it should sond great on 5 in ipod earbuds. and should probably break them on 10. and beats headphones don't count.
Joe Corn Mo Member since Aug 29th 2010 15139 posts
Sun Jul-07-13 08:39 PM
2. "no, the real test is shitty speakers. " In response to Reply # 0 Sun Jul-07-13 08:48 PM by Joe Corn Mo
for instance, "thriller" sounds good on everything.
if you can make it sound fantastic on a fucked up clock radio, that's when you know you've got it right. i think quincy jones actually made them disconnect the studio monitors and test out "thriller" on a cheap ass stereo.
he said when it leaps out of the speakers even on fucked up speakers, that's when you know you've got it.
obviously, this is an unrealistic standard b/c just about everything sounds like shit in comparison to "thriller."
i can't think of many albums that are even in the same league. maybe "aja" or "gaucho."
EDIT: "ammerikkka's most wanted" was flawlessly produced and engineered as well. and it sounds great on shitty speakers.
Joe Corn Mo Member since Aug 29th 2010 15139 posts
Sun Jul-07-13 09:01 PM
5. "actually, i take that back. " In response to Reply # 2
the real test is when it sounds great on shitty speakers, and then you put it on a great system and it sounds better than you ever imagined it.
at first, i said the test is shitty speakers.
but early motown sounds great on shitty speakers. when you put it on a modern system, though... it sounds compressed and weird.
compare that to "innervisions." it sounds fine on a cheap stereo... but when it was remastered and i played it on my awesome system, i heard nuances that were put into the album that i never dreamed would be there.
maybe THAT'S the test.
if it sounds great on a shitty system, and earth shattering on a great one.
"Abby road" meets this standard. so does "thriller." most steely dan albums pass.
several earth, wind and fire albums fit the bill... especially "all 'n all"
and i hate g-funk, but a lot of dr. dre productions fit the bill. "the chronic," especially. but "marshal mathers LP" hits that mark as well.
let's see... what else? this would make a good side post...
10. "that isn't true either" In response to Reply # 8
you'd be surprised at how many veteran producers mix and produce in headphones but the thing is you have to have a set of headphones suited for the task I know niggas that use iPod earbuds to mix in, now THATS some shit you don't do
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
-DJ R-Tistic- Member since Nov 06th 2008 51986 posts
Mon Jul-08-13 02:51 PM
13. "Well maybe if it's some $500+ headphones. But even the Sony type" In response to Reply # 10
that are made to be "studio monitors" can throw you off. Some sounds stand out way more in headphones, even quality ones, and it's hard to gauge how loud the drums are in comparison with the other instruments unless you are experienced and know exactly how it should sound.
Yea for sure not iPod earbuds or even Beats by Dre's. I still think it's best to check in 3-4 places before finalizing a mix, though
14. "RE: Kiiiinda. BUT...make sure you don't produce/mix using headphones" In response to Reply # 8
These days you can def mix in headphones... Most dance producers do it.. I think 40 does it.
The only thing you have to worry about is crossfeed. On a stereo you are hearing a little bit of left speaker in right ear and vice versa. In ehadphones left speaker left ear. So it changes the sound.
But there are vst's out that emulate natural crossfeed
and no ppl dont NEED 500.00 headphones either.. You need a flat response no extra'd out sound enhancements..
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
11. "i keep frustrating myself because i'm still not hitting my mixes" In response to Reply # 0
. i have to record my music at such a low volume . i'm using these $100 bose computer speakers, and sometimes the vocals i'm recording sound too prominant/loud in the mix on these fuckn speakers--- but then i take my shit on cd into my car, and the vocals are recorded too low in the mix and it fucks up the entire song cuz i cant hear what i'm saying and the vocals are recorded like one level too low.. shit happens frequently. or sometimes the opposite happens on my bass/lows. shit dont sound too clear/audible on these speakers or in the headphones, and then i take it in the car, and sometimes my shit is too low or a little too loud.
i get very frustrated by this. i really need to be able to turn my music up to get my mix on point. but the apartment i'm living in now has the thinnest walls out of anywhere i think i ever lived. its messing me up and i dissappoint myself half the time when i finally take my shit and listen in the car. sometimes i get lucky and the mix is halfway on point. and whats a shame is on a lot of these songs / beats i'm doing, i only have the one mix saved to mp3. so if its fucked up, it's fucked up. there's no going back and fixing anything because i don't save a lot of these joints. i do save some tho.
16. "RE: i keep frustrating myself because i'm still not hitting my mixes" In response to Reply # 11
Mic volume shouldn't matter..
You can raise the volume come mix time anyway..
Are you A/b'ing your mixes? Like listening to something you want it to sound like? then listening to yours?
Frequency ranges of the speakers won't change.. so once you know what something commercially sounds like on your speakers you can mix to that quality..
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
17. "i'm not man. i just kind of go different every time &hope" In response to Reply # 16
that i hit it right when i catch the mood.
i listen to cd's /music thru the bose companion II speakers n shit when i'm getting ready for work or whtvr... i listen to music mostly when i'm riding in the car or at work in the headphones tho.
when i'm making my shit, i'm old school analog on it, so i'm not softwared up looking at the levels on a program. so i'm straight off ear. and i'm using these bose companion's as my monitors, but i usually have to keep the volume unreasonably low-- so its a bitch to A) catch the vibe like that, and B) to really know if the vocals are in the mix properly and the bass/lows are in the mix properly. i'm tellin u man, it is a bitch and it frustrates the hell out of me. esp. when i almost got some shit sounding dope and then i take it to the car, slip the cd in, and the fuckn levels are fucked up to where the song is fucked up... and then i deleted the track and only keep the final version and there aint no going back to fix it. LOL. like, this joint right here is a prime example that i made yesterday : https://soundcloud.com/valentinebomb/open-mic-bingo-nite-prod-by
it was sounding alright at the crib. took it to the car to roll around, and i cant hear the vocals on the 1st part clearly enough to hear the fly shit that i was saying, and the vocals on the 2nd part are barely a little bit better than the 1st part, but still like +1 too Low. aint even that serious of a track, but it was straight tho. except i fucked up on that mix w/o question.
that might be a good idea tho is to study how the levels are sounding from these speakers when i play some shit i like and know sounds good and then compare where my levels are at with the mix if i play it right after...
18. "RE: i'm not man. i just kind of go different every time &hope" In response to Reply # 17
Yea a/b comparisons will be your best bet. What are you using to mix? an old school mixing desk?
Also notch out some space in your beat around 500k. That's usually where your vocal sits and may make it easier to hear. Mid/Side EQing can also be a life saver..
Good luck
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
15. "I thought it became the strip club a while ago" In response to Reply # 0
shit on that white rapper vh1 show they had an episode about it. LOL not that that means anything but when we let strippers dictate what is good music is when the lyricism went downhill.
21. "kind of hard for me to choose one over the other, both have" In response to Reply # 0
pros and cons. phones are good for critical listening and hearing micro details but most on the market are colored--bassy (takes away from overall clarity), bright/treble tilt (makes it sound more exciting artificially), or designed to sound "fun," since they're geared for portability, which takes away from close listening under some environments. fidelity on headphones can be a challenge for engineers to achieve b/c of the way they'e situated on one's dome and to further complicate the issue, everyone has different sized heads.
i think the technical reason those albums sound better on a loud system has to do w/headphones not producing bass like speakers. some would go as far as to call it fake bass. bass heavy music like yeezus requires more on the low end for that big sound than phones can give.
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