... were to pass away today, God forbid, would they be canonized as all time greats, or even the greatest like Tupac and Biggie were? What role does the media play in defining who are "great" in the rap/hip hip game? Just wondering where the lesson stands in 2013....

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

Big and Pac had the hip-hop heads on top of the mainstream fans.

It wasn't as split back then.

And you need that respect from the underground in order to be taken seriously on all-time lists.

Big L is there and he had little commercial success. But when he passed the underground vouched for how dope he was and the sheep of the mainstream fell in line.

It doesn't work the other way around.

Well articulated...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

NAW. though Lil Wayne would come close but mainly in the Hip Hop front, however not on the Icon tip.

Lil Wayne is big and yet nowhere near no 2Pac and Biggie.

he would have to make films and do something that truly made him a polarizing figure and he hasn't done that yet, however as a MC he is there already.


Drake only in Canada would or might he get that hype stateside he ain't seen like that. he would have to do more tv and film and try to parlay that into a LL COOL J/Will Smith thing and then maybe, however as is, only with a certain demo of Hip Hop fans.


now if Snoop and Jay Z died then yeah they go into another straitisphere IMO.

same with EMinem and Andre3000

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

"however as a MC he is there already"....you respect Wayne's MC game like that Max? Kinda surprised big bro....

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

Wayne has longevity 1)

outlasted the first stream of cash money as a kid now until being an adult 2)

loved or loathed how many acts out work this cat? 3)

all the projects and the fact his audience still rides with him after all of these years? 4)

ask yourself how many acts from 08 still count let alone 98? i don't even roll with Weezie like that however he is doing something right

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

Of course Jay, Em, Nas, and Snoop would be there because they are all respected in mainstream and the underground.

Andre however was never seen in the same light becuse he was in a group and he simply just hasn't done as much work as the previously mentioned whether you feel he is better or not. I mean, the dude absolutely destroyed Aquemini but when you look at it, he only spit 10 verses where as Nas killed 30+ on It Was Written.

But I think I do agree with you that he would be lifted to at least top 15 universally if not 10 because the Internet, the media, and everyone else would vouch for his spot and he already has enough mainstream success for his mainstream fans that don't think twice about all-time lists would pay attention to everyone else and ride with it.

theres no stratosphere higher than 3 stacks lol.

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“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

Casual Hip-Hop fans know that Em, Jay, Nas, Pac, Big etc are thought of as the candidates for greatest of all time.

These MCs are "safe" picks for people who don't analyze hip-hop like us fanatics.

When you ask them who the greatest of all-time is, 99% of the time the casual fan is going to pull one of those names.

I don't believe Andre is in that category. I know among us he is already there, but as far as the casual fan goes, I think they like Andre for Ms Jackson and Hey Ya and therefore don't make the connection that he is considered one of the best ever by the hip-hop heads.

On the flip side to that, I know some underground hip-hop heads that would never list Dre on their Top 25 list because they don't fuck with him because he is "too weird" and to them is more about wearing funny clothes and singing pop songs.

And these are people who love ATLiens but that is the extent of them messing with Kast.

Biggest rapper in the world after starting as a teenager. His use of mixtapes changed how rappers release their music.

Drake helped pioneer the new R&B/rapper hybrid but it's too early to tell how he'll be thought of in the grand scheme of things.

In this culture of instant gratification, death = don't say anything bad = immortal.

~Austin

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no classic material..theyll be looked right the fuck over...wayne might get some clout from them hot boy days...but this here era...nah..

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2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

allowed to get old. that is why he will be remembered. 90's rappers who made it through that era are the first wave of the new found longevity.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

The biggest rapper who had a streak of killing shit over and over again from squad to No celings...yall really dont realize how many great wayne verses are out there.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

He has to go back on..he been selling since the hot boys.

His spot is solidified.

Drake idk its been 3 albums he had an infulence...hell def be bigged up more cause he died
Esp if this next album is banging and he left on a high note.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

Too many people don't respect Wayne as an MC.

These legends like Big, Pac, Nas, Rakim etc are universally accepted

wayne is a rappar ,not an eMCee

folks respected wayne as a mc around ere on block is hot ...the underground was champoining him on them squad mixtapes...its only when he blew up of course the backlash came.

and now of course he has gotten lazy...but anyone with sense know wayne was killing shit for a good period of time.

funny you mention Pac...its folks who hate Pac on here so no one is universally accpected. folks hate Nas

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

>folks respected wayne as a mc around ere on block is hot
>...the underground was champoining him on them squad
>mixtapes...its only when he blew up of course the backlash
>came.
>

I don't even hate Wayne's older material like you said but he was never a top MC by any means.

>and now of course he has gotten lazy...but anyone with sense
>know wayne was killing shit for a good period of time.
>

Killing it is a little but of exaggeration.

>funny you mention Pac...its folks who hate Pac on here so no
>one is universally accpected. folks hate Nas

People say that Pac was not a great MC technically but almost everyone liked his music and at least respected his work ethic and songwriting.

And he only reason people hate Nas is because he is t living up to their expectations of him by doing Illmatic 2. I don't think there is anyone even on this board that would deny Nas' MCing ability.

he was def a top mc during the squad and carter 1 and 2 era.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

He just isn't on that level.

He's been the hottest MC in the game.

the definiton of a mc..move the crowd have people behind you.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

He is one of the greatest of all-time but AGAIN greatest and best are two completely different things.

Also, your definition of MC is correct but if I don't respect the crowd you're moving then I don't respect you.

Simple as that. Vanilla Ice and MC Hammer moved fucking crowds. Bow Wow moved fucking crowds. I guess they are top MCs as well?

This shit isn hard to understand bro.

And real fans dont be putting pac wit vanilla ice and mc hammer stop it

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

he didn't say that Pac and Hammer/Ice are in the same category
he said there's a difference between greatest and best
Pac is one of the greatest ever for the same reason someone like Run is

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

Pac wasn't just out there moving pop lil girl crowds or people who not into hip-hop.

Like it wasn't respected heads or and fans into Pac...Pac moved alot of people.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

What are you talking about?

The crowd your rocking comment was for Drake and Lil Wayne.

Pac was a respected artist. I've said that from the start. However, he wasn't technically great.

He's in that light to most of them, and the same way people my age associate so many great moments of my youth to a Mobb Deep song or a Naughty By Nature album or a Redman verse, they do for Wayne.

Too soon to say on Drake, but it doesn't feel like he's going to disappear anytime soon, that's for sure.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

People who grew up on Rakim, Kane, and G Rap...still respected and acknowledge how dope the next generation was.

You can't say the same for the generation after that.

>People who grew up on Rakim, Kane, and G Rap...still
>respected and acknowledge how dope the next generation was.
>
>You can't say the same for the generation after that.

With all due respect, speak for yourself my friend.

I'm 30 and grew up on mid-90s rap, yet I still respect Drake and Wayne as MCs and artists. Some of their music isn't for me (to be expected, I'm not their target audience) but each has plenty of songs I like.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

I don't really care.

I know people who I grew up with that listen to and enjoy both Wayne and Drake but if you ask them straight up, are they top MCs of all-time they would have to hold back from slapping the shit out of you.

Yes, they listen to popular music and rock to this shit in the clubs but on a real to real hip-hop conversation, neither Drake of Wayne would enter into be discussion.

so cool lol very touhg

But clearly "slap the shit out of you" was an exaggeration for "tell you that you're crazy", "look at you sideways", or "strongly disagree with you".

You know what's really cool and tough though, following someone on a message board and responding to them in a facetious yet not even remotely funny manner even when he isn't speaking to you.

>I know people who I grew up with that listen to and enjoy both
>Wayne and Drake but if you ask them straight up, are they top
>MCs of all-time they would have to hold back from slapping the
>shit out of you.
>
>Yes, they listen to popular music and rock to this shit in the
>clubs but on a real to real hip-hop conversation, neither
>Drake of Wayne would enter into be discussion.
>

____________________________________________________________________

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Kawhi Leonard
Marshall Faulk
Tony Gwynn (RIP)

#Aztec4Life

naturally rules them out

*
*
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******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

____________________________

FUCK DONALD TRUMP

If Big is in GOAT discussions with really only 1.75 albums to his name, I don't see how Weezy isn't.

Like Maxx said, Wayne has longevity and work ethic. You can't debate that. What other rapper has been relevant throughout the 90s, 00s, and now? Jay and Nas are probably the closest.

As far as pure rapping ability, Wayne's run from the Sqad Up tapes through The Carter 1 & 2, Dedication 1 & 2, and the Drought 1-3, I feel like you at least have to have him in the discussion.

---------------------------------

"...avoid P man take ya baby moms advice..."

http://twitter.com/DrunkUncleP

but the answer is fuck yes

people need to stop acting like a small group of people will determine what overall goes down in history i.e whatever the media end up saying

Do I think they are even close to "legendary"

fuck no

but would they go down as such, to their general audiences, we are talking teenage through like 25

well YES, YES THEY WOULD

WHY WOULDN'T THEY?

We are talking about the same people who have kept these guys on top commercaily....FOR YEARS! How else would they react to their deaths!?

I mean you wouldn't believe the conversations I've had in real life with people around my age(21) about these guys

Just accept it and move on with your life, if you don't like them, just focus/look for other music

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

...slow down son, it's just a topic...no more no less...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

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https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

I swear this dude done talked more about Drake these past 5yrs than Drake fans combined

Fukin hilarious
____________

Dallas Heatvricks BACK 2 BACK CHAMPS!!

oh wait, your nigger ass ass loves crying over men

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

____________

Dallas Heatvricks BACK 2 BACK CHAMPS!!

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

and not the 'media' part
the media have a LOT to do with it, 'hottest' lists and whatnot; remember the media started the east/west beef bullshit

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

...true in deed....media is powerful, especially for those who tend to think only inside boxes....

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

wayne's body of work is pretty deep. and he had a period where he was the hottest in the game.

drake...shorter run, but with this generation, he'll be revered. 10 years later they would still talk about him as one of the best.

Media is the puppet master of what takes place in 92% of what happens in the music industry. Lil Wayne would definently be pumped up by the media as one of the greatest ever, and the people would fall for it hook line and sinker. Drake.... no. But he would still get a little bit of a push. He would probably be remembered as greater that Big L, but probably just under Big Pun. Which I cant believe I just hypothetically typed, but thats just how crazy the game is...lol

1, William Goodgame