i'm sure they would never say "yeah it was because of associating with the okayplayer 'brand' that left my career dead in the water"
but there is definitely a compelling argument.

there was at least half a dozen acts that we at one point on here thought were going to bring... SOMETHING back.
none did, most of them didn't even end up getting signed.
their initial outings all failed.
and now some X or XX years later - they're probably back working real jobs to make ends meet.

just listening to the first PPP album.

so much potential for what could have been...
turned essentially into their debut AND swansong.
the record was bootlegged so heavily on here that it sold less than <10k back at a time when that was embarrassingly bad.
'you know who' cosigned the shit out of it - which equals nothing except making him look good to other rich music snobs.
so, no new fans were added as a result of that.
except for all the ones they made on here that just bootlegged the album.
and then once you had that boho kiss of death for associating with this brand back in the early-mid 00's.
you were marginalized, limited, dismissed, isolated.
your career was dead.
and if it wasn't in fact "dead", it probably was in your own mind - which is just as bad for your output.

i wish there had been more music from this collective, but there wasn't until 2009.
and it was completely different from what they had been doing in 03-05. (and imo not as good or even note-worthy)

waajeed was super-talented.
he had a sound, he had a lane.
this album in retrospect, much like the careers of nearly every act who got associated with this site (with the exception of the millionaires who started the collective in the 1990s) is just a sad, heartbreaking failure.
with mere glimmers of what COULD have been had the world been allowed to hear their music in mass without bias.

you could counter that they just didn't work hard enough.
i'd say that's a valid point.
but like... all of them? ALL of them failed because of apathy?
that seems like more than a coincidence.

"the lesson", i guess? swing for the fences.
don't settle on polarized mid-carders to carry your career regardless how low down the totem pole you yourself actually are and how much you think it would help your career.
it's fools mate.
they made their own path, and if you did the same you could potentially eclipse them rather than stand in their shadow and make THEM look good through association.
the damage you do through that association mares and limits your reach for the rest of your career.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS8sHCdEg3Q

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

but anybody that got associated with this site in the 00's that 'you know who' didn't take a direct interest in landing major label deals and placements like he did for a couple posters on here.

there was a lot of people who got under this umbrella, some, not even by their own choice, who's careers were (arguably) ruined as a result of that association.

i'm just presenting a theory, you could use your own deductive reasoning.
but it certainly seems that in the 00's, for everybody EXCEPT the acts from the 90's who founded the collective, this site (or brand) was toxic.

have there even been any OKP "artists" since the late 00's?
i'm not keeping tabs and i post on the fucking site.
so what does that tell you?

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

>who's careers were (arguably)
>ruined as a result of that association.

Name them so we can properly challenge your theory because each artists has different circumstances.

I'd be willing to bet the lack of "success" is due to 15's niche taste as opposed to some sort of curse you are implying.

the music biz is much more complicated than that...

MJJ had failed acts
Jayz had failed acts
dr.dre had failed acts

as much as people think this shit can be bought and/or marketed. if that was true labels would bat 1.000.

music is emotional and to that extent its unpredictable

i dont think enough people in the "real world" know about OKP for it to make or break an artist just by association.

maybe artists take their foot off the gas a little to early DUE to major cosigns. or maybe its just life on lifes terms... nothing is guaranteed fam

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

how can you expect THAT many artists under one banner to all do well? never going to happen. plus okp was never a label, just an online community - message boards can only do so much marketing. any okp artist who wants to do reasonably well needs to market outside okp - okp alone can never sustain anyone. the roots, common, erykah and co all had major labels behind them. everyone else pretty much didnt, which is the difference. also, okp style music isnt exactly mass market. be happy with small indie numbers. its not 1997 anymore. neo soul rap or anything along those lines wont do what it used to.

I'm obviously not the typical Lessonaire or OKP in terms of taste, but within my first year here I bought I think 3 (non-Roots) albums from folks I'd never heard of simply b/c they were getting hyped (officially and otherwise) on OKP and I wanted to support, and I didn't particularly like any of them.

So as more and more and more guys came along and got props from the site, I more or less just said to myself 'whatever, maybe these guys are good, and if they're still getting chatter in a few years maybe I'll check 'em out then.'

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

as did 15's co-signs of god knows how many artists

i think he meant well, but still, there are prob only so many co-signs an artist should do

and once it went beyond the core group of okp artists it started to get out of control for a bit

but more than anything i think the neo soul scene kinda dying had a bigger effect than anything else

okp could have withstood greater 'abuse' of its name if the biggest stars were all still cutting it, or at least satisfying their original bases, like they once did

Unless you're making the case that the careers of PPP and other acts like that exhibited a distinctive upward trajectory until association with this site (which in itself I would think needs to be substantiated; I'd argue that if anything, they were more associated with URB), or point out similar "alt-soul" acts (not including pretenders like Alicia Keys) that eschewed association and whose careers thrived as a result... this is specious.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

* obvious sarcasm

>i'm sure they would never say "yeah it was because of
>associating with the okayplayer 'brand' that left my career
>dead in the water"
>but there is definitely a compelling argument.

Anyone who would say or even think something like that is dillusional and I doubt they exist except in your head where the rest of what you posted makes sense. You named one example I'll get to in a moment. but

>there was at least half a dozen acts that we at one point on
>here thought were going to bring... SOMETHING back.

First of all... half a dozen? That's it... pssshhhhh. You could have listed them all then. It would have helped clarify, because you could be talking about official OkayArtist or peripherals that came out of the Lesson. Like are you talking about Jaguar Wright or J*Davey? My thought is the latter in which case what you're projecting is your own ignorance about the power of this place.

>none did, most of them didn't even end up getting signed.

Which makes me say yeah the latter.

>their initial outings all failed.
>and now some X or XX years later - they're probably back
>working real jobs to make ends meet.

Like you huh? Bitter much?

>just listening to the first PPP album.
>
>so much potential for what could have been...

Was PPP considered associated with this site at all? LIKE AT ALL? Sure the Lesson liked em, but associated with this site.... GTFO!!!

>turned essentially into their debut AND swansong.
>the record was bootlegged so heavily on here that it sold less
>than <10k back at a time when that was embarrassingly bad.

Uhhhhh... yo dumb dumb unless you personally were responsible for sharing the album with 50k people on this site....

But are you saying their association with this site ruined them because their album was bootlegged? Or is that just a side factor.

>'you know who' cosigned the shit out of it - which equals
>nothing except making him look good to other rich music
>snobs.
>so, no new fans were added as a result of that.

You must really hate 15. That should be the subject of your next post.

>except for all the ones they made on here that just bootlegged
>the album.

You included I'm sure.

>and then once you had that boho kiss of death for associating
>with this brand back in the early-mid 00's.
>you were marginalized, limited, dismissed, isolated.
>your career was dead.

What you're overstating is that this is somehow directly related to here. It's not. It's called "ALWAYS WAS A NICHE MARKET" Aka it was never going to get that big. I'd say 10k sounds just about right, and if done right could be quite good for an artist.

>i wish there had been more music from this collective, but
>there wasn't until 2009.
>and it was completely different from what they had been doing
>in 03-05. (and imo not as good or even note-worthy)

I don't know what you expected them to do. That's what I'm trying to figure out. You expected them to go Gold. Get on 106th and Park? Tell me what on either album would have been anything more than a niche hit.

>waajeed was super-talented.

And incidentally he got some pretty major placements post PPP but I guess that's not enough for ya.

>he had a sound, he had a lane.
>this album in retrospect, much like the careers of nearly
>every act who got associated with this site (with the
>exception of the millionaires who started the collective in
>the 1990s) is just a sad, heartbreaking failure.

I fucking hate your perspective man. Do you not love the album? Is your love for the album tainted by the fact that it didn't win a grammy. And for that you call it a failure. That's so fucking stupid man.

>with mere glimmers of what COULD have been had the world been
>allowed to hear their music in mass without bias.

That simply was not possible regardless of whether they were on this site or not. You know how I know that. Because you can't name a similar that made it without the association. Without a success parallel which says 'see these guys avoided the okp label and blew the fuck up with the same stylings as PPP' or whoever, your argument is bullshit.

>you could counter that they just didn't work hard enough.
>i'd say that's a valid point.
>but like... all of them? ALL of them failed because of
>apathy?
>that seems like more than a coincidence.

No mainly because it was a niche without a way to crossover to a broader audience. That's it man. No more no less.

>"the lesson", i guess? swing for the fences.
>don't settle on polarized mid-carders to carry your career
>regardless how low down the totem pole you yourself actually
>are and how much you think it would help your career.
>it's fools mate.

LOL... *sigh*

>they made their own path, and if you did the same you could
>potentially eclipse them rather than stand in their shadow and
>make THEM look good through association.
>the damage you do through that association mares and limits
>your reach for the rest of your career.

Oh now I get it, YOU lost your job in the industry from YOUR association with this site. I'll await the next post where you explain why.

________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

no one is this miserable & driven by bitter hatred

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

you ever read his posts on other topics? same.perspective.

(and birds sing sweeter
than books
tell how)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sertraline

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

http://www.freshselects.net/waajeed-dirt-tech-reck-benji-b-tracklist-10-25-2012

and making a worthless thread worthwhile, lol... I missed that one somehow

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

Got it on vinyl, as a matter of fact (PPP). Bought a lotta joints based on the association (Sa-Ra, Little Brother, etc). Your theory is thin. The industry is crowded, glutted, mega-saturated with acts tryna make it big or even get noticed. Its really tough to just get attention wiithout major marketing & promotion, not to mention direct, strong a&r work from the proper parties. Okayplayer is an incredible brand for credibility amongst those who put up or shut up.

Twitter.com/djRBI
Instagram.com/DJ_RBI

"I'm That Guy", Mike G (J Beez)

Like someone said before, if OKP and The Lesson liked it, it was probably not made to be mainstream

talking about?

PPP and Wajeed

c'mon

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

I'd say its more likely the okp world seemed bigger than it actually ever was.

A lot of these folks know each other offline go to same shows etc... Live in similar areas. ..

And even if other blogs picked up on it they were even smaller...

There are few curators in the blogosphere that can catapult things out of obscurity...

P4m is still the most powerful..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

"but there is definitely a compelling argument"

because this really is not one

"so much potential for what could have been...
turned essentially into their debut AND swansong.
the record was bootlegged so heavily on here that it sold less than <10k back at a time when that was embarrassingly bad.
'you know who' cosigned the shit out of it - which equals nothing except making him look good to other rich music snobs.
so, no new fans were added as a result of that.
except for all the ones they made on here that just bootlegged the album.
and then once you had that boho kiss of death for associating with this brand back in the early-mid 00's.
you were marginalized, limited, dismissed, isolated.
your career was dead."

it's incredibly specious and not even factually supported.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

Some of the artists that have associated themselves with this site did it on their own cause they felt like it was a good way to have a fanbase that would follow them in the future or already has but it's not any loyal fanbase in rap or r&b can make or break an artist these days, today it's all about artists breaking that pop/commercial barrier to people who buy outside their usual genre of music that they buy.

The Roots, Erykah, Lupe, BEP, Jill Scott, D'Angelo, Mos Def, Common have already crossed that barrier but artists like Madlib, Little Brother, J-Dilla, Slum Village, Talib Kweli, Dilated Peoples, Sa-Ra, Bilal, Skillz, Cody Chestnutt, Flying Lotus, PPP, Danny, Floetry, etc. will never get to that level that the others are on but will probably continue to make great music regardless their sales rank.

https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

PPP
J Davey
Sa-Ra
Les Nubians
Floetry
Jaguar Wright
King
ect

and to that i would say bullshit.