bavid dammer Member since Oct 23rd 2012 1369 posts
Mon Jan-14-13 04:08 AM
"jay dee's rockwilder period was so wack." Mon Jan-14-13 04:09 AM by bavid dammer
i know i've made this post before, i know some people can't acknowledge that jay dee made any missteps in his career... but this just came on random while i was doing something for work:
bavid dammer Member since Oct 23rd 2012 1369 posts
Mon Jan-14-13 02:06 PM
12. "yeah, i like that one." In response to Reply # 4 Mon Jan-14-13 02:08 PM by bavid dammer
the period itself just has so many duds. frank-n-dank his jaylib beats the whole beat tape that contained "what up" was dud city
it was just a terrible, derivative period in his career where he was yearning to play catch up to the times in arguably the most shitty period in black music history. yet, it never gets acknowledged as a misstep of any kind.
just my opinion, i know i'm not alone, despite how unfavorable it might be.
--- “Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins
26. "ok yea, if you count the beat CD joints then i agree" In response to Reply # 12
alot of duds.
counting only the placed tracks then i disagree.
i'd actually say overall Dilla had an equal amount of duds throughout all of his eras. Moreso during his "Jay Dee" period. He had some snoozers but what producer doesn't.
We kinda got a rare opportunity, in a way, to listen to his vault of tracks. Outside of Madlib, we don't get this kind of insight to producers and i think it would be unfair to completely write them off.
NO! LIST Tom Petty M J Zeppelin Springsteen Neil Young Eagles Ray Charles Madonna Chuck Berry South Park TV Songs Justin Timberlake "Food Glorious Food" "Twilight Zone" theme "A Boy Named Sue" "Night Moves" "The Situation" "Superbowl Shuffle"
56. "stylewise yes, sonically tho? not at all" In response to Reply # 19
------------------------- “The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.” Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B
25. "I don't *love* this one either, but you can't write off that whole era" In response to Reply # 0
Most of the tracks he gave Busta during that period knocked. And judging from the Dillagence mixtape Busta may have claimed/purchased some of the doper beats from the Jaylib leak that didn't make Champion Sound. Plus Welcome 2 Detroit is a part of that time frame, along with the B-Side Move, Bahamadia's One-4-Teen, The SV Trinity tracks, Let's Grow, Spacek's Eve Remix, and the handful of solid cuts on 48 Hrs like Keep It Coming, Ma Dukes and so on.
That said, I will admit that there were some duds on 48 Hrs. And the Peer Pressure track for De La and the beats he gave Kweli for Quality never really did much for me. But still, to call that whole time frame "wack" is a bit much.
29. "What people forget about this era" In response to Reply # 25
Was that it was his engineering peak. If you listen to those 2002 Batches, it sounds like they were mastered. Whether you like the beats or not is up to you, but they were perfectly mixed. He would later abandon his set up and go back to the stripped down sound that created Donuts and the Motown beats.
57. "peer pressure beat is fucking bonkers" In response to Reply # 25
------------------------- “The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.” Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B
99. "I actually listened to the instrumental after making that comment..." In response to Reply # 98
And you're right about the nuances. I enjoyed it more listening to just the beat itself. Still though, I don't love it in the way that you and the handful of cats above seem to lol. I guess it's just too slow for my tastes. Plus it just feels like it's missing.....something. Maybe my ear wants it to be bouncier or to have a more pronounced bassline. Like the Genesis track has a relatively slow tempo as well and I love that beat. *shrug*
30. "One of my fave Dilla joints" In response to Reply # 0
Like that whole period, he was getting into playing more and really creating these futuristic-styled bangers. In fact, it sounds fresh as hell in 2013.
Thanks for reminding me I need to dig more joints from this period up! You're good for something my man!
********************* www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi
Dj Joey Joe Member since Sep 01st 2007 13770 posts
Tue Jan-15-13 12:01 AM
44. ""I'll Bet U Will" Ended Up As "Street Life" Off The "48 Hours" Album" In response to Reply # 31
I like both versions of "I'll Bet U Will" aka "Street Life", also "Where's The Parties At?" 12inch version verses the album version, but if I had to choose I like the "48 Hours" album versions a little bit more.
--------- "We in here talking about later career Prince records & your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak
initially Madlib rapped over some beattape stuff for himself and scrawled Jaylib on the CD-R. Dilla caught wind of it and told him they should just make an album. they sent each other instrumentals back and forth and two-tracked Jaylib LP together.
51. "How is that different from what Menph said?" In response to Reply # 49
___________________________ OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself: "I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.
no - I really dug the FnD joint (some tracks more then other) when i got my hands on it years ago - thinking this was way before its time (as usual) - i like "tek" dilla - in fact Hoe's of SV's Trinity is on of my favorite dilla productions,,
Dj Joey Joe Member since Sep 01st 2007 13770 posts
Mon Jan-14-13 11:40 PM
42. "You Buggin' The J-Dilla/Frank-N-Dank Stuff Was Bangin'..." In response to Reply # 0
...club-wise and for those that wanted dope pimp, ho, & player type raps with beats that knocked and would get even the underground heads boppin'.
I still listen to "48 Hours" (the second version), too bad the original version of that album never was leaked other than the three songs that were on the 12inch.
--------- "We in here talking about later career Prince records & your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak
--------- "We in here talking about later career Prince records & your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
58. "fuck you and what you listen to" In response to Reply # 0
------------------------- “The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.” Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B
60. "I wouldn't say suck, but it was surely not filled with invention" In response to Reply # 0
48 Hrs is basically the same beat over and over again and I didn't care for it, but there's some good beats in that period
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
a lot of those more "commercial" beats are mediocre at best. a lot of those later Frank N Dank beats don't constitute "DILLA" in my mind. I wasn't feeling What Up initially, but it works in the context of those Jaylib instrumentals
bavid dammer Member since Oct 23rd 2012 1369 posts
Wed Jan-16-13 02:51 PM
66. "it's a very bad period." In response to Reply # 63
he was trying to throw a curve ball at everyone after "the blast" blew up with his 90's sound. ok, that's fine. but he was really out of his element. i know a lot of people will say everything he did had a certain level of craftsmenship to it, and that's true. so if that's what you're appreciating or focusing on, then i guess these are beyond reproach. the issue that i have is they are awful, awful attempts at club bangers. that bang in no club anywhere. i have always said frank-n-dank were the most unsuccessful club rappers of all-time. even smilez and southstar had their moment in the sun. they're like an underground smilez and southstar who just happened to have an out-of-his-element jay dee at the helm of their music. the results, were mixed are best. unbearably bad at worst. i just have to point this out on here every few years.
--- “Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins
we ain't letting this shit slide, what's the skinny
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
>of course a song about women stripping isnt your thing
you know, that would explain why I like Pinkyxxx, Cubana Lust, and have a grip of Chocolate Honeys vids on my external HD. oh wait, it doesn't
since we're on the topic, Jaylib's - Strip Club represents a classic Dilla beat from that era. it's completely different from his 90s work, something no one would expect from Jay Dee. still sounds fresh today
71. "I thought it was impressive that most of those joints were samples." In response to Reply # 0
Back when I didn't have the knowledge, I guessed that he was playing the Triton/Trinity on most of those beats. I know he re-did a bunch of the FnD tracks because of sample clearance (the Supremes-less version of "Ma Dukes" is still nasty as hell) but I assumed a lot of the more minimal beats (including a bunch that Madlib picked for the retail version of Jaylib) were just Dilla fucking around with a keyboard, moving on to a new sound (Neptunes, or uh...Rockwilder-influenced).
Then you hear the OGs for shit like "What Up," "Hoes," a bunch of those "First Installment" beats, the craziness on the 2002 batches (ungodly Zapp/Roger flips....obviously samples but I mean DAMN.)
Whether you want to believe it or not, Dilla had beatmakers reaching for different records after that period. Synth shit, prog, 80's rock...all that shit took on a different meaning after he got his hands on them.
It's tied with the Ummah sound as my favorite Jay Dee period. So much creativity.
73. "The 48 hours beats were kinda undercooked" In response to Reply # 71
But his beat tapes were as good as anything he's ever made, really. Turn Me Up Some is the best example of a beat at that time that you would figure would have been him on a synth but instead was a weird and obscure sample.
>Then you hear the OGs for shit like "What Up," "Hoes," a bunch >of those "First Installment" beats, the craziness on the 2002 >batches (ungodly Zapp/Roger flips....obviously samples but I >mean DAMN.)
--------- "We in here talking about later career Prince records & your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak
80. "I don't like the 'string hits' but the synth + modulator shit?" In response to Reply # 0
shit kinda sounds like Prince on the studio record of Controversy, I fucks with that.
"Take Dem Clothes Off" is one of those tracks I only tolerate cause it's Dilla... if it were the Neps I would have called it bullshit like I did 99.25% of their cookie cutter shit (i.e. "Superthug" et al), the stuff they did for Jay-Z, Clipse and N.E.R.D. were better to me.
83. "I'll be damned if I tolerate shit becaus of who did it" In response to Reply # 80
>"Take Dem Clothes Off" is one of those tracks I only tolerate >cause it's Dilla
say it ain't so Claw wack shit is wack shit and Dilla's had his share just like anybody else
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
102. "I never said it was wack" In response to Reply # 97
I actually like it, but it's not astronomical or anything I'm talking about supporting something just because somebody did it I can't do it, fam
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
uniqueterror Member since Aug 08th 2003 3906 posts
Sat Jan-19-13 11:38 AM
86. "Anyone getting the 48 Hours instrumentals?" In response to Reply # 0
Some records are steeped in mythology. Frank N Dank’s 48 Hours is just such a recording. Why so few samples from Dilla? Was that MCA’s decision as they didn’t believe they could get clearances? Why did MCA shelve the recording for so long? Where’s the “original version”? There are nearly more questions about this album than cuts on the album. But according to Frank, “contrary to popular belief there was never an ‘original version’ of 48 Hours. We started recording songs to sample driven beats of Dilla‘s and we got 80% of the album done and Dilla decided to change the beats to all the songs.” That’s right, it wasn’t MCA’s legal department, it was Dilla’s creative vision that stripped out the samples. But what about the sample laden “Take Your Clothes Off” and “Off Your Chest” you may ask? Frank interjects, “those were done after the fact.” And why did MCA shelve the project, was this a label afraid to release what the Detroit trio had concocted? Well that doesn’t appear to be the case. According to Nitt turnover in the A&R department at the time was rapid to the point that no one seemed to know who at MCA was responsible for the project. This led to a call to then MCA president Jay Boberg who agreed to release Frank N Dank from their deal.
So there you have it. As Freud once said, “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”. In the case of 48 Hours, it’s one hell of a tasty cigar. 48 Hours is now at last ready for the respect and proper release it has deserved all along, with the complete album as well as a second disc of Dilla’s instrumentals included. As Frank reminds us, “This is the exact version of 48 Hours that we (Frank N Dank & Dilla) turned in to MCA and the way Dilla intended it to be!”
90. "To be perfectly honest" In response to Reply # 86
48 Hours was among Dilla's worst work, and I think people needed some excuse as to why it was so average, so they made up some story about how poor Dilla couldn't use his amazing beats and had to replace them with average ones.
This is coming from one of his biggest fans, too, so don't hate the theory.
bavid dammer Member since Oct 23rd 2012 1369 posts
Sat Jan-19-13 09:50 PM
91. "RE: To be perfectly honest" In response to Reply # 90 Sat Jan-19-13 09:51 PM by bavid dammer
>48 Hours was among Dilla's worst work, and I think people >needed some excuse as to why it was so average, so they made >up some story about how poor Dilla couldn't use his amazing >beats and had to replace them with average ones.
you know an album is wack when the write-up contains bias plea coppage...
93. "sounds as good as any" In response to Reply # 90
there are people on here that actually believe Dilla never made a wack beat, much less a whole album of them, it's really sad and does nothing for his legacy you can't get great at something, and continue to be great at it, if you don't fuck up along the way
__________________________________________ CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!! ------------------------------------ Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this
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