have you ever thought about how ridiculous the idea of "sampling" music is away from the construct of "hip-hop" culture?

picture this: listening to other people's music for little bits and pieces you like and then incorporating them into your own music.
...and not just for inspiration.
little bits and pieces that you actually take directly out of their recording and insert it into yours.
imagine a wes montgomery spending his time doing something this mediocre and hum-drum rather than oh i don't know, practicing his craft and becoming an incredible musician...

putting this into post-"hip-hop" perspective:
what a waste of your time on earth and an insignificant mark to leave on the planet while you were alive.

just what a ridiculous past-time when you think about it away from all the fanfare and romanticism of "hip-hop" culture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVmDKicbegY&list=UUtAnRq3c5cDjc3mrPdiorxQ&index=4&feature=plcp

~Austin

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com
http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus
http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

also, bookmark for pete rock vid tho.

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“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

but yet he's doing shit like this where the artist comes looking for HIM
riiiiiight

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

also, organix was a jack of mecca & the soul brother

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“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

people have written songs this way since music was invented
when you think about how many classical pieces have been created off rearranged notes of Beethoven's 5th Symphony or how many gospel songs are based off the opening notes of Amazing Grace, the whole argument for it being a waste of time becomes a silly one in any context
besides that, you can make anything seem silly if you really want to, like, say, posting on a message board about how silly something is

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

>have you ever thought about how ridiculous the idea of
>"eating" food is away from the construct of "digestion"?

i mean hunting, killing and putting another living thing on fire just to stuff it down your mouth.

smfh

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

you fell in love w/ sample based hiphop as a youth...

all your attempts, however, to produce sample based beats failed miserably...

so you lash out at the art as illegitimate so u dont have to face yourself just being plain old wack...

just a theory

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

and a narrated voice over are not legitimate art...

correct?

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

Most of the music that you listen to. regardless of what style is sampled from somewhere else you may not be aware of it though. Kind of like Frank Ocean sounds like Music Soulchild.

You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

thanks for your time.

jazz afficianoados can recognize licks in jazz songs
that are "quoted" from other jazz musicians.

same goes with blues.

hell, jazz was kinda built on taking broadway show tunes
or other forms of pop music and flipping it.




the only difference is that hip hop used turntables
to sample the musical phrase.

sometimes jacking it wholesale,
sometimes creating an entirely new musical idea.



there's nothing new under the sun.


unless this is a "but they don't even play instruments" post.
in which case, whatever. all punk rockers couldn't play all that well, either.
so that's whatever.


>picture this: listening to other people's music for little
>bits and pieces you like and then incorporating them into your
>own music.
>...and not just for inspiration.
>little bits and pieces that you actually take directly out of
>their recording and insert it into yours.
>imagine a wes montgomery spending his time doing something
>this mediocre and hum-drum rather than oh i don't know,
>practicing his craft and becoming an incredible musician...
>
>putting this into post-"hip-hop" perspective:
>what a waste of your time on earth and an insignificant mark
>to leave on the planet while you were alive.
>
>just what a ridiculous past-time when you think about it away
>from all the fanfare and romanticism of "hip-hop" culture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZEMoXjl-Xg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

or as they called it, "excerpting"... over a vocal remake of the song.

(also: Herbie Hancock on clavitar right in the middle of that song = GOAT, that's why I loved Arif Mardin as her producer)

>(also: Herbie Hancock on clavitar right in the middle of that
>song = GOAT, that's why I loved Arif Mardin as her producer)


that gives me chills.

or, scales/chord progressions, etc. but what they do with them is up to them.. changing the tempo or key of the same piece of music will yield a completely different result... in that case it's allowed.. as in any artform, we all use the same basic tools. jazz and blues are individual to their scales and chords so they have to share.

jazz musicians use direct musical quotations.

"Quotation is also a tradition in jazz performance, especially of the bebop era. Charlie Parker, for instance, quoted Stravinsky's Rite of Spring in his solo on "Repetition", and "Country Gardens" on his Verve recording of "Lover Man"; Dizzy Gillespie quotes David Raksin's "Laura" on "Hot House" during the Massey Hall concert. Dexter Gordon and Sonny Rollins are especially famed among jazz fans for their addiction to quotation. Often the use of musical quotation has an ironic edge, whether the musician is aiming for an amusing juxtaposition or is making a more pointed commentary (as when a youthful Rollins, playing alongside Charlie Parker on Miles Davis's Collector's Items, throws in a snippet of "Anything You Can Do I Can Do Better," or when the avant-garde saxophonist Ornette Coleman rebuffs a skeptical heckler at the Croydon Hall concert with a snippet of the jazz standard "Cherokee")


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_quotation#Examples



that wikipedia list has a gang of examples of classical and jazz musicians
quoting the musical ideas of other musicans in their original compositions.



>or, scales/chord progressions, etc. but what they do with
>them is up to them.. changing the tempo or key of the same
>piece of music will yield a completely different result... in
>that case it's allowed.. as in any artform, we all use the
>same basic tools. jazz and blues are individual to their
>scales and chords so they have to share.

when it is granted, and when the artist doesn't have any means to create the music him/herself.. but then still.. we have access to so much information on the net, you can teach yourself to be anything and anyone.
I can't even bring myself to using a drum loop someone else programmed because it's just cheating to me and lazy. I spent years learning how to write music.. spent years practicing, mixing, mastering, etc etc. I will eventually reach a point where it is purely my craft and my own and there is nothing more satisfying than putting in the work and getting the girl, so to speak.. true musicianship lies in crafting the sounds yourself, that's at least my opinion.. it takes something like 20 years for bands to develop their rich and undeniable sound.. to just take that.. is skipping that 20 years.. so what that you can arrange music to a beat? so what? it sounds beautiful when you take it. it really is almost impossible to fuck up a soul sample.. literally anyone who learns the basics could do it in a week's time. you're telling me that the quality of artistry has not fallen due to the lack of musicians learning how to be musicians and instead learning how to hack? i dunno. sampling is a hack. (in the comp hack sense) and should be an artform of its own and is not comparable to music written and performed originally.

i have more thoughts on this, but yeah essentially.

nevertheless, "louie, louie" is one of the greatest songs of all time.
meanwhile, jeff beck is a virtuoso guitar player.
he never wrote a great record, though.


songwriting and musicianship aren't the same things.
you don't necessarily need one to have the other.


some virtuosos have great songs.
(hendrix)

some people that can barely play their instruments have great songs
(the sex pistols)




but if i could only have one, i'd take a great song
over a great player any day of the week.



> literally anyone who learns the basics
>could do it in a week's time. you're telling me that the
>quality of artistry has not fallen due to the lack of
>musicians learning how to be musicians and instead learning
>how to hack?



you know, that's not true.
take a song like "smells like teen spirit" or "i wanna be sedated."

anybody can play those songs. they aren't hard to play.
learn some power chords, plug in the amp and go nuts.



but every once in a while you hear song
that's so brilliant and so simple that you wonder
why it took somebody so long to write it.

it seems so easy, doesn't it?
but as you know, songs like that come along only a few times in a generation,
and it's not for lack of trying.

great pop: simple, but not easy.



> i dunno. sampling is a hack. (in the comp hack
>sense) and should be an artform of its own and is not
>comparable to music written and performed originally.
>




if we want to play the "my favorite art form is harder to do than
your favorite art form" game, then we can write off 90 percent
of the music that most of us love.


your favorite soul singer
can't sing like an opera singer. they're hacks. they have to use MICROPHONES
to sing a song. real opera singers can sing over top of the roar of a orchestra
in a pit.



your favorite punk artist sucks.
the ramones "only" used three chords.


your favorite rap producer sucks.
he can't even PLAY drums. he uses a sampler to make a break beat.



the beatles sucks.
they had to use multi-track recordings to make their tracks.
they weren't a real band.




we can do this all day. it's all meaningless.



like i said, the sex pistols could barely play instruments at all
and yet they made their mark and they have some great tunes.

if sampling makes you a hack,
then we can write off punk rock, most motown records, rock and roll generally,
and 99.9 percent of all popular music.

none of them are in command of their instrument the way yo yo ma is.




hip hop is held to this weird double standard
when it comes to using technology as a tool for the art form.




it's bullshit.
and i say this as somebody that isn't a huge fan of the genre.

in the context of Hip-Hop covers just don't happen. Listing contemporary influences, or giving any kind of acknowledgement to other artists who aren't on your team is rare, and even then it's usually safe. (Ludacris saying that Common was one of his biggest influences was interesting, but Common was a mainstay damn near a decade before 'Cris was around. Same goes for Eminem's list.)

Yeah, hip-hop samples, but there are other things that don't really happen in hip-hop. Just sort of a different genre.


Also, electronic music loves sampling. Sometimes we call it hip-hop because of the sampling, but if it wasn't for hip-hop claiming that, there wouldn't really be anything more to tie people like The Avalanches, Early DJ Shadow, and a lot of RJD2 to hip-hop. Artists like The Crystal Method and Adam Freeland don't even try to fit into hip-hop and at times they were pretty sample heavy as well.