And not credited writers.
Not a producer who penned a hook.
Not their boy in the studio who said "you should say it like this," or "I got a hot line that I can't use, but it would work in that verse you have."
I'm talking paid, uncredited, secret ass cloak and dagger, whole song crafting, ghost writers. Like, with the combination of egos and often weak songs that do come out, why would anyone think that rappers use ghost writers? Is there a black market where rap loving lit students and interns peddle their writtens to their favorite rappers?


I really want to hear who some ghost writers are, or which verses were ghost written. I'd like some kind of evidence more than "that nigga's flow sounded all Rhymefest-like," or "Jigga ain't never rapped like that before."
SOMETHING more than the conjecture of hip-hop gossip circles.

I'm not saying it's never happened, or it can't happen, but I've honestly never heard of it happening, but it seems like everybody else KNOWS when it's happened. I mean, shit. "Ghost writer" is a hip-hop term. But when the fuck has this actually happened?

There's probably a group of one-hit wonders or niggas that never quite got the right deal or radio play, that are eating better than label owners, off of ghosting.

Thinking about it, people that admit to writing for Diddy, Dr. Dre, Snoop, etc., probably don't even bother saying they're ghosts anymore. Real ghosts would probably prefer to stay that way, to protect an artist's integrity, and continue to get work.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

>There's probably a group of one-hit wonders or niggas that
>never quite got the right deal or radio play, that are eating
>better than label owners, off of ghosting.

Speaking of Rhymefest...
Realistically, I think these people really would be the ghostwriters. It just makes sense.

>
>Thinking about it, people that admit to writing for Diddy, Dr.
>Dre, Snoop, etc., probably don't even bother saying they're
>ghosts anymore. Real ghosts would probably prefer to stay that
>way, to protect an artist's integrity, and continue to get
>work.

This is actually a big part of what I'm talking about. Diddy, Dre, and Snoop credit their writers. There was a big deal made when Snoop came out and said that he had writers on an album. But he said it. I would imagine that in actuality both the ghost writer and the artist hiring them would want that shit to stay quiet. So even with ghost writers around, they're still not known.

most of those were revealed in various publications.

There's some mixtape floating around with Biggie doing Kim's verses for Queen B.

Eazy E mentioned it in a rhyme, don't know if O'Shea got the credit (he ain't get the money, see the break of nwa) There was a song about Paperboy doing Eazy's stuff in the Sauce of old.

Dre - who ain't written for Dre?

Lyte - Big Daddy Kane.

But none of these folks have ever gotten lyrical props though.

For certain top lyrical mc's to be accused of this..

I mean, given the # of bad records from said artist, bad in rhyme and in beat selection?

one
k. orr

I'll accept Kim, E, and Lyte because when they were around and really doing things I was too young to care about who wrote what. Well, very early Kim, at least.

With Dre, aren't his writers well publicized and credited? At least since his second Chronic album (again, too young to care, so I never really read the liner notes on the first or with NWA).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7dZ1nObzHU

You can hear it.

"flip out the mac and cripple a cat / rip thru you back tissue with any pistol I pack"

Havoc wrote half of Prodigy's rhymes on Juvenile Hell.

mind
--------
matter

You really can, can't you?
I always thought it was just the influence of a friend, but this makes much more sense.

C'mon we know damn well Fat Joe couldn't have went from rhyming basic from his first album to a lyrical dynamo on the 2nd album, everyone knew that when Big Pun started showing up in Fat Joe's songs that Punisher was the one happen to be writing for Joe.

Also Cuban Link got mad at Fat Joe years later after Big Pun died that he ghost wrote for Fat Joe along with Big Pun & Prospect too but wasn't receiving their royalties and mess like that.

But I still think that Fat Joe wrote his own lyrics as well on the 4th albums and beyond.

https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

MF Grimm, Threat, and The D.O.C. did a lot of ghost-writing for those cats.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

>MF Grimm, Threat, and The D.O.C. did a lot of ghost-writing
>for those cats.

mf grimm? word? how the fuck he get way over there from his usual circle? care to elaborate?

Lebron couldn't win a chip without two superstars from his draft class. He didn't just need help. The nigga needed the cheat code to enable god mode.(c)Kira

"Sentences", which came out a few years ago.

He didn't say how he got down with them, but did say he was working with Death Row when the label started (he adds that he was cool with both Dre and Suge). He doesn't directly say, "I was ghost-writing for those guys" but he certainly wasn't working with them on the production end of things.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

And Snoop. Definitely him too.
And be real. Probably Kurupt. Never Dre, though. He credits his writers. It's those other niggas that are insecure.

is that it's two sides to the coin.

(a) his writing was so much sharper in his Death Row days. His flow was impeccable and he was, IMO, one of the best in the industry when he was there. His flow and hunger were mind blowing. Since leaving Death Row, he's been a shadow of his former self. Showing random flashes of brilliance in spots, but has mostly resorted to rhyming "bitch" with "bitch" and "dick". It was a crazy dip in quality, which is why it could maybe be easy to say "hell yea he had ghostwriters in his Death Row days".

but,

(b) his early writing style and flow were SO UNIQUE that it's kinda hard to pinpoint who would have written for him, so I'm hesitant to say that he had ghostwriters. I mean, his lyrics were so out there, so ... bipolar in theme and structure...his flow was so obviously HIS OWN, that it's like...well, who WAS writing for him?

So I don't doubt that he had DOC and Threat and others maybe coaching him with cadence, and maybe moving words around...but I am in the camp that Kurupt never had ghostwriters...he just had more veteran assistance in the early days of his career to sharpen up his style. But I just can't believe that someone else was writing the lyrics to, say, "Doggz Day Afternoon," etc. for him. No one else rhymed or flowed like him in those days.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

But this is actually something that I think happens a lot.

I think any time you have large camps, the other MCs around act as a sort of quality control. I assume that there's a lot of coaching, suggestions, and even additions. But I don't imagine that Kurupt was hanging out playing Sonic the Hedgehog, just waiting for his verses to arrive.

And anyone who writes anything knows that writing can suffer from a lot of different things. A less creative environment, fewer suggestions, boredom, too many drugs, too little drugs, not being pushed, etc. If and when there is a drastic drop in quality, I'd sooner attribute it to one of those than a ghost writer being absent. And even if there's a sudden change in style or increase in quality, I'd say that the writer was trying something new that just happened to work, or they decided to start working their asses off.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Beyond just Del helping write "Jackin' 4 Beats" (which he got credit for).

Post-Lethal Injection he used ghost-writers (Threat, again, was one of them).

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

Huh, I thought he was open about Del (which makes him not a ghost writer), and he was the one who was writing for Eazy E

So now the ghost writer needs a ghost writer. Interesting...

....i'm going with KANE

I'm kind of curious about that, cause the only other person I can think of is the time BDK wrote a verse for MC Lyte for her verse on "Stop The Violence".

https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

Don't know who else after that.

https://twitter.com/DJDanSpeak

https://soundcloud.com/dan-speak/the-voyage-mix?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=twitter

not Kane. Rumors were that he wrote it entirely, she says he assisted her. LL.

>I'm kind of curious about that, cause the only other person I
>can think of is the time BDK wrote a verse for MC Lyte for her
>verse on "Stop The Violence".
>
>
>

Twitter.com/djRBI
Instagram.com/DJ_RBI

"I'm That Guy", Mike G (J Beez)

and who cares again in 2012? it ain't like anybody is saying anything new and there so called ghost writers are about as deep as the ghosts on a Scobby doo episode

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

you must love me © jigga

WEED ghosted for Snoop Lion.
And like really ghost wrote for him. Snoop doesn't even know.

Rhymefest we know of. I think Consequence also did some writing but is there any proof besides what we can hear in the similarity?

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

All of this twice.

Pharoahe Monch too.



*CROCKER*

word booty.

HSUBAKCITS

www.smokingsection.net



http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/chowyunskinny/Gold%20Chef/iron_chef.jpg

I remember a few albums back he basically wasnt writing..didnt have it in him..dont know who wrote for him tho

----------------------

GrandeMarshall "800"
Andreena "Naked EP"

I don't think that qualifies, as it was well publicized, and Snoop openly said he wasn't writing.
A big part of the ghost writer thing is that someone else is writing for them in secret. Otherwise it's just a writer.

>I remember a few albums back he basically wasnt
>writing..didnt have it in him..dont know who wrote for him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB-immoDrkM&hd=1

I know Canibus isn't to be taken seriously, but I vaguely remember reading some article (ln like Vibe or Blaze of all places) about a couple of guys who were revealed to be writing for LL.

When I hear about rappers like LL, Cube, or even Will Smith not writing their own lyrics, I can at least understand. Guys like that spend a lot of time on movie sets or doing promo for films they're working on. I can understand if writing rhymes isn't one of their priorities.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

************************

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

I fucking LOVE that joint, but ever since the rumors I've always tended to kind of "hear" that that's not LL. Could all be in my head, but that song now really doesn't sound like your typical Cool J rhyme scheme.

************************

However, in theory, that's what I good ghostwriter should do.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

>However, in theory, that's what I good ghostwriter should
>do.

Dre sounds like whoever wrote his shit *smh*

************************

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

************************

The reference tracks leaked. Ghost and credited written Dr. Dre songs were still Dr. Dre songs. With the refs though, and laziness on Dre's part, we now say "Oh, that's clearly T.I./Kendrick/Game, etc." Everything pre-Still D.R.E., doesn't matter to me who wrote it.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

That rumor fucked me up majorly because Ren was always my favorite NWA member.

************************

Ren for the most part had his own style/flow/cadence and sounded different than them other cats.

That said I'm sure, as we discussed above just on the times and "crew team work" aspect of things, that there was a lot of collaboration between all of them (Cube/Ren/DOC/etc). But I really think Ren had his own shit. He still maintained his same style and overall talent even after NWA was done.

And, similar to you, I simply wouldn't want to believe it either way because Ren is a favorite of mine as well.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I've recorded with him, he's probably the smartest person I've worked with. He was saying he tried to help the Grand Hustle dudes lyrically, but Tip doesn't take constructive criticism or suggestions well.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

R.I.P to an N.O legend

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

http://www.xxlmag.com/features/2012/08/xxl-presents-hip-hops-10-greatest-ghostwriters-poll/

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon