I would say that Hip-Hop died when Ludacris and T.I. started being unironically included in best rapper of all time discussions. I think you could make a decent argument for Ludacris because he's like an American Idol contestant in the sense that he's technically skilled but has no talent whatsoever. T.I., however, paved the way for modern southern speech impediment (I refuse to call it an accent) aggressively bland coon pop-rap. Apres T.I., le deluge. Don't come here to debate about it being dead, either, because it is, and if you don't realize that then you're incredibly naive or you just found out about Hip-Hop eight minutes ago. There's still some great artists like Shabazz Palaces and Kendrick Lamar, but hell, even Jazz had great artists like Ornette Coleman as it was fading away.

"Capitalism will never fail because socialism will always be there to bail it out." - Ralph Nader

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

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"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

TI is dope.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

He makes good Pop music for simps. "You can have whatever you liiike" LOL

"Capitalism will never fail because socialism will always be there to bail it out." - Ralph Nader

"Hi, my name is" LOL.

Would you say he isn't talented?

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

"I'll take you to the candy shop!"

LOL

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

LOL, good luck with this. There's people here who think hip hop is in a golden age. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these guys thought the Journey, Chicago soft rock era was the best era of rock music. That's where hip hop is at right now, music for girls.

To answer your question, 97. Not just the Bad Boy garbage, No Limit really started poppin in the mainstream with Ghetto D. Shit started getting glossy in '95 and '96 but by '97, it was a wrap.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>LOL, good luck with this. There's people here who think hip
>hop is in a golden age. I wouldn't be surprised if some of
>these guys thought the Journey, Chicago soft rock era was the
>best era of rock music. That's where hip hop is at right now,
>music for girls.

lmmfao. I don't mind the "soft rock" Chicago, but '70s Chicago >>>>>>> ... without question. there's something distinctly "pop" about their strange meandering records early on in their career and throughout, but their popularity in those times to someone who first really became familiar with them in that "soft rock" era and knows a more stripped down "pop" sound in general, always blows my mind.

again, if you're looking at Drake type acts... I'll admit, I can deal with it if it's a Ross track, but Drake is more like an R&B artist/send up of an R&B artist who just happens to rap. kind of like the opposite of the image projected by New Jack Swing. which is funny because Drake isn't a bad rapper if you take away the Lil Wayne-ism in his voice.

>To answer your question, 97. Not just the Bad Boy garbage, No
>Limit really started poppin in the mainstream with Ghetto D.
>Shit started getting glossy in '95 and '96 but by '97, it was
>a wrap.

I would agree. "Hip-hop" and I don't mean just the New York style of rap, I mean the whole idea of rapping on the merits of RAP MUSIC, not other shit, hit a wall in the mid-late '90s, coinciding with increased commercialization. hip-hop didn't die so much as the machine became aware of its revenue generating potential more and more. and today, when a dude like "Gunplay" is getting a major label deal... that shit is sick.


I think that today, outside of the mainstream, you are seeing a lot of records that are getting back to that idea. other genres will influence, but not USURP the "rapness" of these records. I won't hold up Lil B as being better than even the Rappin' Duke on the mic but what he's doing now is way better in concept than the goddamn shiny suit/let's get more spins on R&B radio shit. ditto for cats like Danny Brown. dude is straight out of an SNK fighting game and his rhyming style might get on some nerves, but I don't think "you know, this isn't rap music" when I hear it.

as ?uest, or was it someone else said, Puffy sold "us" out. before then, A&Rs didn't know what the fuck to do with rap. they basically thought, "hey, you're like those Sugar Hill guys? go make a record." Later it was, "oh, you're like those RUN-DMC guys? go make a record." By the time it got to the "oh, you're like those N.W.A. guys? well..." we were in trouble.

>again, if you're looking at Drake type acts... I'll admit, I
>can deal with it if it's a Ross track, but Drake is more like
>an R&B artist/send up of an R&B artist who just happens to
>rap. kind of like the opposite of the image projected by New
>Jack Swing. which is funny because Drake isn't a bad rapper if
>you take away the Lil Wayne-ism in his voice.

This is one of the strangest things that's ever happened to me. Literally, just yesterday at about 6pm, I sent an e-mail to a group of my friends from college who I banter with on a daily e-mail chain about various things, saying THIS EXACT SAME THING. I'm talking, almost word for word (obviously structured a little differently).

I'll try and find the e-mail and copy and paste it in a minute. But I'm saying, I touched on every single point you did, with the same opinion on them. About Ross/Drake specifically, comparing Drake's voice to Wayne and why I can tolerate Ross but not Drake...

Wow. So fucking weird. Great minds...


>I would agree. "Hip-hop" and I don't mean just the New York
>style of rap, I mean the whole idea of rapping on the merits
>of RAP MUSIC, not other shit, hit a wall in the mid-late '90s,
>coinciding with increased commercialization. hip-hop didn't
>die so much as the machine became aware of its revenue
>generating potential more and more. and today, when a dude
>like "Gunplay" is getting a major label deal... that shit is
>sick.
>
>
>I think that today, outside of the mainstream, you are seeing
>a lot of records that are getting back to that idea. other
>genres will influence, but not USURP the "rapness" of these
>records. I won't hold up Lil B as being better than even the
>Rappin' Duke on the mic but what he's doing now is way better
>in concept than the goddamn shiny suit/let's get more spins on
>R&B radio shit. ditto for cats like Danny Brown. dude is
>straight out of an SNK fighting game and his rhyming style
>might get on some nerves, but I don't think "you know, this
>isn't rap music" when I hear it.
>
>as ?uest, or was it someone else said, Puffy sold "us" out.
>before then, A&Rs didn't know what the fuck to do with rap.
>they basically thought, "hey, you're like those Sugar Hill
>guys? go make a record." Later it was, "oh, you're like those
>RUN-DMC guys? go make a record." By the time it got to the
>"oh, you're like those N.W.A. guys? well..." we were in
>trouble.

Yea I agree with this wholeheartedly.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Right, Drake is like Rick Springfeild or Richard Marx or some act like that. Rock music elements but it's def pop music. Kanye & Wayne too.

I wouldn't put Ross in that category either, he's a rapper, they're pop stars.

....some will disagree, but they also probably enjoy shitty hip hop so their opinion is worthless

So basically anybody who thinks otherwise can't even submit a nuanced counter argument because as soon as they do, BOOM!, they're either:

1) a "kid"
2) just got into hip-hop
3) have terrible taste in music
4) are gay
5) some combination of the above


What's the point of threads like this where essentially you want everyone to cosign and keep it moving?

__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

.

I don't see how it's up for debate. Why would hip hop be different than any other genre of music that became mainstream? Funk died, disco died, R&B died, rock died, jazz died, etc. They all follow the same basic timelines. There's the early days, then the golden era, then they become mainstream and assimilated into pop music, then the aftermath.

Rock had a lil resurgence in the early 90's with grunge but I don't remember too many classic rock heads feeling that movement too much. Maybe the same will happen in hip hop.

as in they don't exist anymore

That's your very very literal definition, not mine.

Fallen off to the point of no return, is what I mean when I say dead.

It's dead, nigga. Deal with it. Right now, you're in the first stage: denial. Pretty soon you'll move on to anger. It's okay, 40 years is a good run, but it's time to move on.

"Capitalism will never fail because socialism will always be there to bail it out." - Ralph Nader

__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

.

Thats the million dollar question. I dont know. Dubstep?

"Capitalism will never fail because socialism will always be there to bail it out." - Ralph Nader

that people post these arguments on message boards that are frequented by rap fans, started by rappers, and often act as a vehicle to spread the word about NEW rappers coming out.

Oh, hip-hop died somewhere between 96 and 2000? So what the fuck have you been listening to for the past 12-16 years?
If you can name a great subgenre, artist, album, or song that's been around since then your argument is moot. Unless you mean "I just didn't get it anymore" when you say "died." And if that's the case, just fuckin' say so. I'm sure the people on this message board will forgive you for not being the arbiter of hip hop.

>that people post these arguments on message boards that are
>frequented by rap fans, started by rappers, and often act as a
>vehicle to spread the word about NEW rappers coming out.
>
>Oh, hip-hop died somewhere between 96 and 2000? So what the
>fuck have you been listening to for the past 12-16 years?
>If you can name a great subgenre, artist, album, or song
>that's been around since then your argument is moot. Unless
>you mean "I just didn't get it anymore" when you say "died."
>And if that's the case, just fuckin' say so. I'm sure the
>people on this message board will forgive you for not being
>the arbiter of hip hop.

LOL at not understanding a genre whose humor relies on puns, the lowest form of wit. Just because a genre is dead doesn't mean artists still don't produce music for it. Boney James and Wynton Marsalis are still making records, aren't they? But to answer your question, most people have been listening to Pop these past 12 years. Hey Ya!, Lose Yourself, Empire State of Mind, etc

"Capitalism will never fail because socialism will always be there to bail it out." - Ralph Nader

>LOL at not understanding a genre whose humor relies on puns,
>the lowest form of wit.

Kinda my point.

Anyway, clearly rap grew. A lot, even. With that growth comes mass appeal. It changed the genre. It even divvied it up a little bit. But it certainly didn't kill it.
And if you're talking about pop, Run DMC, Salt and Peppa, and LL Cool J, were making pop records before OutKast and Eminem. That didn't kill the genre. It just sold it to a wider audience. There are plenty of non-pop tracks, and even rappers out there who are keeping it alive. They're just not necessarily the men who were doing it way back when. Those men are starting to retire.

I'll admit that a lot of shit has come out, but a lot of shit came out back when too. We just don't remember it because it was shit. With rap selling to the amount of people that it does now, it isn't all going to just disappear that quickly.
Shit still goes away though.
Remember Chingy, Mims, or Mike Jones?

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

_________________________________________________________________________________

I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark haired women and breakfast foods.
IG/Twitter: @sammiie_b

... Hip-Hop is dead threads in 2012? That's so 2006.

~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~
http://soundcloud.com/griff-x
http://atribecalledx.com
http://twitter.com/IamGriffX

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

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while making "formula" albums was a viable career option. That would be around 2001. I still can't get over how disappointing Jadakiss' first album was.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

n/m

Things have definitely looked up in the last two years tho imo.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

>Things have definitely looked up in the last two years tho
>imo.

Yeah i think theres been more oddball acts that have managed to get on like odd future and danny brown but i dont think the genre is healhty overall

"Capitalism will never fail because socialism will always be there to bail it out." - Ralph Nader

When I turned 25.

Hip Hop still had plenty of life left. The South took over. That was New York's last real hurrah in the mainstream.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

and there's STILL plenty of hiphop.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

There hasn't been one year when there wasn't great albums/songs released. Disco is dead. Hip Hop is not.

************************************************************

>There hasn't been one year when there wasn't great
>albums/songs released. Disco is dead. Hip Hop is not.

good point. until hip hop goes the way of disco, it's not truly dead. THAT is a dead genre.

Lebron couldn't win a chip without two superstars from his draft class. He didn't just need help. The nigga needed the cheat code to enable god mode.(c)Kira

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this