Theres a god on the mic pg 324-325(speaking on Rakim)

"In 1986 Rakim was the second 8 year paradigm shift. Remember music works on the number 8. 8 notes, 8 bars, 8 part harmony etc....Hip hop has 2,3,4,5,7,8 and 9 year cycles. The 8 year cycle is the paradigm shift. Thats when some emcee comes or creates something that changes the way we interpret a great emcee.

In other words from 1970-1978 we rhymed one way, Melle Mel, in 1978 gave us the new cadence we would use from 1978-1986. Then Rakim, in 1986 gave us flow and that was the rhyme style from 1986-1994. Then Biggie came with the newer flow wich dominated hip hop from 1994-2002. In 2002, Eminem created the song that got the first Oscar in hip hop history"

So basically he is saying every 8 years an MC comes along who changes the game to an extent that shifts the whole structre of emceeing as we know it.

Melle Mel 78-86
to Rakim 86-94
to Biggie 94-2002
to Eminem 02-2010

1) do you agree with the 8 year paradigm shift?
Why or why not?

2)Assuming his theory is valid that means that the next MC wouldve broke in 2010 and changed the game? Who could that be?

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

>1) do you agree with the 8 year paradigm shift?
>Why or why not?
>

yes, there's a clear precedent for it and it existed


>2)Assuming his theory is valid that means that the next MC
>wouldve broke in 2010 and changed the game? Who could that
>be?
>

but it's not valid anymore-the day of the rapper/emcee dictating what goes on in the culture is pretty much over-its all about what people like the most and are willing to pay for instead of download
>

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

>>2)Assuming his theory is valid that means that the next MC
>>wouldve broke in 2010 and changed the game? Who could that
>>be?
>>
>
>but it's not valid anymore-the day of the rapper/emcee
>dictating what goes on in the culture is pretty much over-its
>all about what people like the most and are willing to pay for
>instead of download

I agree that emcees don't define the hip hop culture as much anymore but in the context of the 8 year theory, is their any one that qualifies as carring the torch?

Granted the theory could be off a little so even if we added a year or two before 2010, and expanded the window to start in 2008 and up until now 2012. Who is the mc that most closest could be "the next one"?

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

I think Em was the last one in contention, I haven't seen anyone else close to deserving

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

and seems highly subjective.
for one thing it assumes that the one mc named is exclusively responsible for changing the landscape starting and ending within that 8 year period.

in particular, that eminem argument is highly suspect.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

it's not nonsense
he brings it up more than once in the book and it gives you something to think about

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

>it's not nonsense

i think what i found sophomoric was the "music works in 8 bars" preamble tying into this "8-year cyclical mc" thing. it's borderline conspiracy theorist, and doesn't really sound academic or like something i'd take seriously.

but context is key.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

what isn't subjective when it comes to art tho?

the point is the Kool Moe D is a little more credible than the avarage joe to say this

at least this statement is comeing from someone with a proven track record and who is credible within the hip hop community and in the specefic topic of emceeing rathar than an academic hypothesis by an outsider

don't u think it deserves at least furthur analysis before you dismiss it?

we wonder why their is no meaningful discourse on hip hop and why it cant advance as an art form but when meaningful discusion is brought about it is immediatly dismissed. I think you atleast have to give him credit for knowing what he's talking about as he survived 3 diffrent eras as an emcee

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

moreso it comes off as his being tired of of the Hip Hop tried and true method of 'let's put hyperbole all over everything and make it bigger than it actually is'
the statement not taken in context certainly reads like that

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

but assuming Bill Gates said to me:

"i've been in the computer industry for like 4 decades. i'm an expert. i'm telling you that every 8 years exactly, there is a new advancement that changes the game."

i would still think it was ridiculous that with all unknown factors involved, he is able to make such a prediction with any kind of certainty.

as agreed, it is highly subjective, and therefore not the kind of thing that should be presented as fact.

again, i haven't read the book, but it seems like a lazy hypothesis that anyone with more than a cursory knowledge of hip hop could build a case around (in retrospect).

i guess i just have a problem with absolute statements made about topics that are obviously the subject of opinion.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

>but assuming Bill Gates said to me:
>
>"i've been in the computer industry for like 4 decades. i'm an
>expert. i'm telling you that every 8 years exactly, there is a
>new advancement that changes the game."
>
>i would still think it was ridiculous that with all unknown
>factors involved, he is able to make such a prediction with
>any kind of certainty.>

I agree that you wouldnt just take the statement as absolute truth but can we agree that you would atleast go into it knowing that Bill Gates expierence gives him a higher level of crediblity than someone outside the computer industry thus there may some truth to the statement even if you think there are holes in the statement?

>again, i haven't read the book, but it seems like a lazy
>hypothesis that anyone with more than a cursory knowledge of
>hip hop could build a case around (in retrospect).>

I think part of the context tho is that Kool Moe Dee is one of the few if not the only MC who has records and was active in all of the first 3 phases of hip hop.

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

i should be more open minded about it.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

www.royallegacy.org
http://therapfest.com/up-next-artists/

>2)Assuming his theory is valid that means that the next MC
>wouldve broke in 2010 and changed the game? Who could that
>be?


or rick ross

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

and Erick Sermon was doing a variation of that even earlier than P

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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

.

(c) Luda....I was DEAD when he said that

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

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Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

I agree that Moe D didnt really elaborate on Eminem but instead meant the Oscar nod as a supporting point without throughly explaining Eminems case.

However I dont think anyone can really make a valid argument that Eminem WASNT the next emcee in the chain of the paradigm shift.

lets not get side tracked from the main point which is Eminem carried the torch

if you want to argue that Eminem wasn't the next succesor than lets do that but dont get hung up on the Oscar part

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

It's obviously Jay-Z. The problem with that is that he doesn't make a marked difference from Big. Which would indicate progress has stalled out which is what makes it difficult to determine who got next.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

I cant agree with Jay he didnt innovate anything. Jay Z is really a child of BDK and Biggie. Nutthin new he just updated what they did.

I agree wholeheartedly that we are at a standstill now. I mean who are even the choices? their hasnt been any real innovation just a lot of doing whats already been done and rehashing it

it troubles me not that there isnt a clear cut succesor but that I cant even come up with a list of perspective choices to debate

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

Jay-Z has been immitated by soooooooooooooooooo many MCs.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

imitated way more since Jay also imitated them

its like this generation of kids imitating Kobe not realizing Kobe was initating MJ and so on...

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

hard to accept but really not valid.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

conversely if u add Jay Z u have to also add Nas (but that doesnt make sense)

reason being both of them are direct children on their fathers

Jay being the son ofBDK and Biggie

Nas being the son of Rakim

not takeing anything away from either of them but they didnt change the game more so tham improve the game and build on their fathers legacy

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

http://slumz.boxden.com/f87/kool-moe-dees-top-50-mcs-his-book-672871/

Melle Mel
Rakim
KRS-One
Big Daddy Kane
Kool Moe Dee
Grandmaster Caz
LL Cool J
Chuck D
Notorious B.I.G.
Lauryn Hill
Nas
Queen Latifah
2pac
Kool G Rap
Jay-Z
Treach
Method Man
Ice Cube
MC Lyte
Redman
Ras Kass
GZA/Genius
Will Smith
Busta Rhymes
Heavy D

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

(not being argumentative btw, just curious).

when i think of eminem, i think of wide mainstream acceptance of his unique style (violent angst couched in clever wordplay).

but i don't see him as someone who inspired mcs to switch up their flows to be like him (see: rakim who, as i understand it, actually changed the way people rap).

it's widely accepted that Em is one of the greats in our generation (although i wouldnt personally say so, because i've never listened to his catalog like that).

i don't really see him as very influential.
immensely talented and popular, yes. but widely duplicated within the industry?
i guess i don't see how he is a 'game changer' when there are people like Biggiie, Hov, Weezy, or even (as mentioned above) Drake, for eaxmple.

(sidebar: i can't belive i just mentioned weezy and drake after biggie and hov--but do you see my point as far as influence?)

these are people whose existence shaped the voices of scores of mcs who came after them.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

the book basically breaks down his top 50 mcs ever

instead of being a list tho he used quantifiable catagories and a numericl gradeing scale to assign a score. then he adds the numbers in all the catagories

is it a perfect system? no but atleast it is quantifiable and catagories can be cross checked against the diffrent mc's

I don't know if he rated Eminem as a top 50 but let me check

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

Went from Melle Mel 82-86
Rakim 86-89
Ice Cube 89-94
Nas 94-98

no emcee has elevated it from where Nas left it. no yet anyway

>Ice Cube 89-94

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

yes...tell me a better mc in those years?

*professional lurker*

its about did he change the landscape of hip hop so much that he birthed a lot of children

he didnt

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

unfortunately few of them were memorable or stuck around, so now we can pretend like he had no influence.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

I dont remember a whole bunch of militant/pro black/ intelligent gangsta mcs with a direct in your face style like his

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

BIG,Nas,Redman are the most famous ones

AmeriKKKas Most Wanted changed the game. From 90 til GRODT, most successful albums had Cube "cinematic" vision.

There would be no Ready To Die intro w/o AMW
Menace 2 Society even borrowed his Gafflin skit

Nooo reply at all

proceed

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

>BIG,Nas,Redman are the most famous ones
>
>AmeriKKKas Most Wanted changed the game. From 90 til GRODT,
>most successful albums had Cube "cinematic" vision.
>
>There would be no Ready To Die intro w/o AMW
>Menace 2 Society even borrowed his Gafflin skit

Redman is one of the biggest East Coast boosters of NWA/Cube out there... and I do remember back in 1992 explaining his record to someone else like, "ever heard Ice Cube"? particularly the level of cussin on the record... LOL

also, I really feel Willie D's style imported a good bit of NWA/AMW Cube. shit.

if you cant see the influence of nwa and ice cube had on the game? ....
damn a song he wrote got turned into a classic hood movie ....

*professional lurker*

In terms of technically Em did step the whole game up as far as flow patterns and multi-syllable style in rhyming. Of course we can find traces of that before Em in G Rap, Nas, Masta Ace, even Pun....But Marshall took that shit to the next level.

As far as the next 8 year successor, it has to be Drake. Not only for the Hashtag, 1 word punchline scheme, but the whole slower, to cool for school, 'swag', rhyme style thats prevalent in just about every MC under the age of 25.

Of course Wayne had alot to do that too, with his off kilter, ping pong, say whatever style but he was influential way before 2010, so it evolved to a peak from Wayne in '05, 06 to Drake in 10 til now.

Eminem dope but check AZ's Do or Die LP...........that is Eminem right there ...

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

it's alot of MC's with the origin, Em himself have gave props numerous times to those guys, but Em not only perfected it, he elevated and updated it on his way to being the biggest rapper walking the planet in his era.

That led to that style of emceeing being in the forefront, with Em being The One. The White Boy had every top level rhymer going back to the drawing board during that era.

It wasn;t no more just rhyming the end word or syllable in each line anymore. After Em broke you had to AT LEAST rhyme the last 2 syllables..even average and right below average MC's had to update to that standard after Em's emergence.

The ENTIRE GAME had to adjust to keep up after Eminem. AZ's Do or Die is a good album, but it didnt do THAT though...

and while a country at war (whether literal or in the Cold War's case theoretical) than the musical quality usually has shot up comparitively speaking.

But that theory failed like the Bush Administration last go-round.

First, Em doesn't apply in this sense. He may have been a paradigm shift from a pop music perspective, but he hasn't shifted the genre creatively...

Second, (and people are going to get at me for this), neither did BIG. Not in the way people want to make it out to be.

BUT

Even if you want to say BIG did, how do you leave out

Chuck D (PE didn't shift the paradigm?)

Tribe?

Dre? (I'm no Dre stan, but The Chronic didn't change things?? lol)

Pac? (I know the Lesson hates em some Pac...but he is at least as much of a paradigm shift as BIG...more IMO but thats another argument pointless to have here)

Kast?

Kanye?

And yes Nas and Jay. LOL at people trying to discount those two to make it fit this 8 year bullsh!t.

Bottom line is when you come up with some bullshit premise of "every xx years" you have to force things to make it work.


Its just not true. Just because someone respected said it doesn't make it true.

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

reference from.

_________________

They were more important than Rakim when it comes to shifting the path of hip hop.

Also, Kanye West could be considered a huge paradigm shift, he paved the way for the new new school ie., Kid Cudi, Drake, Kendrick Lamar, Schoolboy Q, Lupe Fiasco etc.

Neither one of these fits into KMD's 8 year theory...

I was about to say.

The thing with Eminem is that the timing seems off. I'd have pushed his dates back to 2000 until whenever, but he kind of came along the same time the whole "rise of the underground/napster" thing did. He was a battle rapper with great flow marketed to MTV, and it worked. But at the same time he came out there were a lot of things changing in hip-hop. Right around that time you get Internal Affairs, Mos and Talib, even acts like Atmosphere, the Living Legends, Jurassic 5, and Jedi Mind Tricks. And I'll say that the idea of "underground" rap is kind of gone now, but at that point in time it was running, it was strong, and as odd as it is to say it, Eminem was a product of all of that. He just had Dr. Dre, great flow, and TRL behind him.

And I'd say that if we shifted into the next stage, Kanye is the obvious forerunner. Although I don't think he's the best rapper around, his influence is as undeniable as it is widespread. I mean where the fuck would Drake be without Kanye to head out before him? Would we have listened to Kid Cudi? How well was Lupe's career going before Ye put him on? Not saying he's responsible for their success, but he certainly primed the environment for their brand of rap.

why would he diss himself?


i don't get it.

Kool Moe Dee created the cerebral rhyme form, and the offbeat, on beat style.

Busy Bee was the entertainment mc, and rocking the parties with the same old shit, year after year.

Kool Moe Dee blasted his ass into outer space, and change hip hop forever....

It's like krs-1 said, had that not have happened, everybody would still be rhyming like busy bee. diggy dang, diggy dang, da-dang, dang, dang...


That shit was like the first every rap battle.

he rated himself as the 5th best MC

he calls himself one of the 3 lyrical kings or something of that nature

he points out several times that he is the only MC to have cuccess int he first 3 eras of hip hop

in the book he goes into the Busy B battle and its significance

but in this regard he is acknowledging that Rakim changed the game more than he or anyone else to that point did

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

style was more influential imo..
That conversational multi-faceted style was used by Biggie and Jay Z

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel