let me preface this by saying I am not a Huge Jay-Z fan.

Put if you were to ask me who wins between Jay and Tupac? Jay wins.

Jay and KRS? Hmm....its almost sacrilegious to discuss it...two different eras...my heart would say Kris...but the facts would point towards Jay.

He's consistently put out decent to fantastic albums...he's got a decade plus in...his latest album with Kanye shut DOWN the summer...

Yes he bites Biggie.
Heavily.
Heavily enough so that you can't call that shit an "homage" because the slobber is still wet...

But you gotta respect this cats hustle.

D

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

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when I think of MCs like Rakim, KRS, Kane, etc...

you can definitively point to a moment in time when they were the nicest in the game

artistically, lyrically, etc...

Jay was never that IMO

he's always put out decent material and solid albums

but I was never blown away

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

Jay is the father and midwife to a lot of niggaz styles in the game now.

You may not like the DIRECTION he chose...but to say he wasn't (and isn't to a certain degree, STILL) considered the best in the game is more a matter of personal preference than fact.

D

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

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what year was he the NICEST

not selling the most records

not getting the most radio play

not having the most videos in rotation

when was he killin the mic

and doin it on a level that no other MC was seeing

"Jay is the father and midwife to a lot of niggaz styles in the game now"

and you already pointed how BIG birthed his style

so...

"the best in the game is more a matter of personal preference than fact."

the best in the game at what though

selling records

or rippin mics

I guess if you have to think about who's a better MC between KRS and Jay, that's more of an indication of your personal preference

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

Who claimed that he was the "best rapper alive, since the best rapper retired" in reference to Jay-Z. There was blatant biting of Jigga from random dudes like Angelous, and I recall Peter Gunz's flow displayed some Hov-isms as well. I'm sure there are more examples though 'cause I personally remember a time when I would watch videos with my younger brother and be like "yeah, another dude from the Jay-Z school of emceeing". It became a catchphrase of sorts.

Drokayplayer ™


>you're like the most known unknown poster
- Mr. Buildingblock

>Jay is the father and midwife to a lot of niggaz styles in
>the game now.

Who, though? And isn't Biggie the father and midwife to his style?


>You may not like the DIRECTION he chose...but to say he wasn't
>(and isn't to a certain degree, STILL) considered the best in
>the game is more a matter of personal preference than fact.

Well....obviously. The entirety of any "GOAT" or "best MC" conversation is a matter of personal preference, so you're stating the obvious.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>Who, though? And isn't Biggie the father and midwife to his
>style?

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

from obscure sidekick to superstar to brand-name over a 20+ year span (no, I'm not going with the lie that he suddenly appeared in 1996 and started recording either)

you can't really do much better that in a "here today, gone tomorrow" genre. Only Snoop Dogg really compares (his mentor fell off, even).

let me amend that. he IS one of the nicest out, but he's admittedly dumbed it down for $$$$. we've gone over this so much, I'd rather not retread but it boils down to, he's gambled less and made much more. (in that regard he takes the L to Snoop IMO; deep down, Jay really wishes to be loved like certain other rappers are).

he's been overshadowed by someone else every time he had a big record. but he made records big enough to sit at the table, and UNLIKE them he's been able to last a lot longer than the other flashes in the pan. When you get "Jay-Z" on your record you know what you're going to hear at the very least.

well done. Agreed with every word.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>let me amend that. he IS one of the nicest out, but he's
>admittedly dumbed it down for $$$$.

I know the "dumbed it down for my audience" line gets brought up over and over, but personally, I don't buy it. We've heard Jay's more thoughtful songs like "Song Cry" or his verses on "Welcome to the Jungle", the ones where he's getting at the "real" Sean Carter. They're not that good! They're not fun and they're not even particularly insightful. I find that new song about his daughter pretty hard to listen to, too. Does anyone prefer those to "Big Pimpin'" or "99 Problems"? I think most everyone would agree that Jay's a better pure MC than Kanye, but there are a half dozen songs on BDTF that say more about a real person than anything in Jay's whole career. I sort of take the "dumb it down" line as a consolation to himself, like "Yeah, I could have been Common, but you know, the hustle..."

I don't say this as a knock: Jay's one of my favorites rappers ever. Some days he is my favorite. I think he's been smart to mostly stay in his lane. And he does have one great introspective song in "Ignorant Shit". But tellingly, that's a song where he's deconstructing the Jay-Z image, not Sean Carter.

I don't think Jay dumbed it down at all. I think he COULDN'T be a rapper like Common, hence why he isn't. He's good at what he does. Coming out and trying to explain away why you're not deeper than you are just makes you look like you're copping pleas.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE7HuHB5V0M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7q8xhsCaL8

.. maybe he was never gonna be the "deepest" dude out, but he can get pretty damn intricate when he wants to.. i always took that to be the "dumbing down" he was talking about..

don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that he never got deep or intricate. In fact, quite the opposite, I think he's very intricate in his rhymes...I just don't think he's ever been on the level of early Common like he said he could be, otherwise I think we'd have seen it more.

I mean, for a guy who's desperate for approval from all rap fans (specifically those that think Nas is the best ever, we all know that), there's just no way he dumbs down 80% of his lyrics for the entirety of his career. If the guy had the ability to spit Nas or Comm or Kweli's intricacies on a consistent basis, he woulda done it to win over the "hiphop heads".

Again, though, for what he does, he's excellent. And to a certain degree I think he DID win over the hiphop heads just by being himself because he's still VERY good even if he's not on Nas' level lyrically. Which is why it's frustrating that he feels the need to say "yo fuck y'all I COULD rap like Common I just choose not to," because he just seems like he's desperate for acceptance, when he doesn't need to be.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

<--- Big Baller World Order

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

but this thread is bound for 100+ posts of niggas trying to admit it with caveats & pleacops and shit.

<--- Big Baller World Order

With rap artist being an all-encompassing term that takes into account more than simply how good one may be at writing and rapping. No rapper has ever been able to remain "hot" or commercially viable for as long as he has. And he hasn't really made any drastic concessions or pandered to any audience other than his own (rap/r&b) in the process. He gives the people what they want. And that sounds extremely simple and easy to accomplish in theory, but the long list of names that weren't able to "be around next year" in hip-hop speaks to the contrary.

There was a HEATED post not too long ago in GD about how Jay-Z was never the hottest rapper at any point during his career; and some accuse(d) him of aping Young Chris' style and deride him for his countless (uncredited) interpolations of others rhymes, but the general public doesn't really care about the stuff that spawns multiplatinum posts on these boards. All they generally desire from their artists is music they can dance, ride and chill to, and Jay has consistently given audiences that for over fifteen years now. LL dubbed himself the GOAT at about 12 years in on his seventh album, with at least two duds in his discography at that point, and it was pretty much all downhill for him afterward. And though some may say that Jay has a few duds of his own, there's at least one record on each of his albums that has kept him on the radio or in the clubs and secured his relevancy.

And with all that said, yes, he is one of the best technical rappers to ever spit as well. People use the fact that others praise Jay's business acumen and commercial success as a knock against him, as if they only do so to compensate for a lack of sheer rapping ability. Personally, my inability to get into dude has had more to do with his voice, my (past) keep it real/backpackery aversion to the jiggy era sounds and ethos, as well as his blatant attempts (in rhyme) to control/dictate/rewrite his, and the history of rap's narratives for his benefit. But his talent is undeniable. Even the staunchest anti-pop fan can't deny a song like Hovi Baby, or say dude can't flow after listening to Roc Boys. So it's not like Jay has coasted his whole career and he's got over on the general public by utilizing the art of suggestion/persuasion alone lol.

So yeah, he's the best. A small part of me cringes when I type that but his career speaks for itself. LOUDLY! And no other rap artist to date has had a run that can match its decibel levels.

.

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Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

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>With rap artist being an all-encompassing term that takes
>into account more than simply how good one may be at writing
>and rapping. No rapper has ever been able to remain "hot" or
>commercially viable for as long as he has. And he hasn't
>really made any drastic concessions or pandered to any
>audience other than his own (rap/r&b) in the process. He gives
>the people what they want. And that sounds extremely simple
>and easy to accomplish in theory, but the long list of names
>that weren't able to "be around next year" in hip-hop speaks
>to the contrary.
>
>There was a HEATED post not too long ago in GD about how Jay-Z
>was never the hottest rapper at any point during his career;
>and some accuse(d) him of aping Young Chris' style and deride
>him for his countless (uncredited) interpolations of others
>rhymes, but the general public doesn't really care about the
>stuff that spawns multiplatinum posts on these boards. All
>they generally desire from their artists is music they can
>dance, ride and chill to, and Jay has consistently given
>audiences that for over fifteen years now. LL dubbed himself
>the GOAT at about 12 years in on his seventh album, with at
>least two duds in his discography at that point, and it was
>pretty much all downhill for him afterward. And though some
>may say that Jay has a few duds of his own, there's at least
>one record on each of his albums that has kept him on the
>radio or in the clubs and secured his relevancy.
>
>And with all that said, yes, he is one of the best technical
>rappers to ever spit as well. People use the fact that others
>praise Jay's business acumen and commercial success as a knock
>against him, as if they only do so to compensate for a lack of
>sheer rapping ability. Personally, my inability to get into
>dude has had more to do with his voice, my (past) keep it
>real/backpackery aversion to the jiggy era sounds and ethos,
>as well as his blatant attempts (in rhyme) to
>control/dictate/rewrite his, and the history of rap's
>narratives for his benefit. But his talent is undeniable. Even
>the staunchest anti-pop fan can't deny a song like Hovi Baby,
>or say dude can't flow after listening to Roc Boys. So it's
>not like Jay has coasted his whole career and he's got over on
>the general public by utilizing the art of
>suggestion/persuasion alone lol.
>
>So yeah, he's the best. A small part of me cringes when I type
>that but his career speaks for itself. LOUDLY! And no other
>rap artist to date has had a run that can match its decibel
>levels.

He is "the greatest rap artist of all time". Excellent post.

He ain't even got a new record coming up, but he gets more posts on this board than Drake and Ross, who are actually hot right now.

one
k. orr

if that isnt greatest of all time, i dont know what is

of course, whether jay is the goat, top 5, top 20, WHATEVER he is depends on the way whoever is saying it crafts the hip hop pantheon. what do they think it means to be a great hip hop artist? is it purely about skills on the mic? record sales? trendsetting? longevity? songs? albums? cultural impact?

of course no one, especially on this board, is going to totally agree about how to prioritize those criteria, and most of them are fairly subjective anyway.

having said all that, there are some things i think a lot of people would agree to about jay:

1. comparing him to every other figure in hip-hop, jay-z has absolutely won on the commercial/cultural value scale. he is one of the richest (if not the richest). he is married to beyonce. he is the rapper that can be named by middle america. he has the respect of basically everyone in hip hop, popular music, and really american industry. and he did all of this coming from the marcy projects. jay-z is the absolute full embodiment of the rags to riches paradigm in hip hop, which is central to the genre.

2. on his career in music: this is a comment on him as a phenomenon within music, not as much the music itself. its clear that jay is, overall, one of the most important rappers ever. he has been releasing relevant music for 16 years, a sort of longevity nearly unmatched.

reasonable doubt is widely recognized as classic within its era. it didn't create the movement it was a part of, but it was very important within it.

vol. 2 was fucking everywhere in 98. to me it hasn't aged great musically, but it was huge at the time.

big pimpin was everywhere.

the blueprint absolutely fulfilled its title. so many people made music like the music jay made on that album after 2001.

the black album was huge. 99 problems, dirt off your shoulders huge.

i think plenty of great things can be said for the importance of his post-black album music, but for the sake of this rant ill consider it too recent to be properly considered.

3. strictly in terms of music:

being conservative, jay-z has made two classic albums (reasonable doubt, the blueprint). many would make the case for others.

i think jay-z is a pretty great rapper. i think it can't be said that he has made "the best music" out of any rapper. (i'm not sure how that might work anyway... is it making lots of classic albums? lots of great songs?) but the fact is, jay-z's new music always gets play. he has consistently been getting spins for 16 years. i think that can't really be said of anyone else in the game. not all of it ages very well admittedly, but its relevant in its time.


4. as a rapper

jay-z can really spit. he memorizes all of his raps and does them in one take. he has technically impressive songs (see nigga what, nigga who), incredibly written ones (d'evils) and amazingly catchy ones (i just wanna love you). he has heartfelt songs (song cry). he maintains legitimacy with hip hop heads while doing numbers with casual listeners and pop music fans.

if i put his best 20 bars up against every other rapper's best, i might find at least 10 guys who have done better than him. but if i ask all of those rappers ahead of him to show me the great music they wrote damn near every year over a 15 year span, i'm not finding anyone in line.

sorry, this post was more meandering and stream of conscious than i wanted it to be, and terribly too long, and inconclusive. i guess i think its just hard to give a definitive answer.

is jay-z my favorite rapper?

not sure.

have i listened to jay-z consistently for as long as i can remember listening to rap?

yup.

will i always listen to jay-z?

most likely.

can i say those things about anyone else? not really.

divided we fall

>if i put his best 20 bars up against every other rapper's
>best, i might find at least 10 guys who have done better than
>him. but if i ask all of those rappers ahead of him to show me
>the great music they wrote damn near every year over a 15 year
>span, i'm not finding anyone in line.

>can i say those things about anyone else? not really.


respect,
bc

"my old boy from the Point but I'm from Southwest..."

"Are you really ready to carry some weight?,
Are you ready to design your fate?" -Kelvin Mercer

"put his best 20 bars up against every other rapper's
>best, i might find at least 10 guys who have done better than
>him."

and I can still be reasonable and put him in my top 10 MCs

but he's never been in my top 5, personally

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

Best Career in History of Rap: Jay-Z has the best career in history or rap and he is a DOPE MC. If you list his 25 best songs and say he isnt one of the greats, you know nothing about Hip Hop and mcing skills. If I have to explain that I dont know what to tell you.

Jay-z is on the Mt. Rushmore with 3 other dudes...take your pick

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

.

Nope

Jigga man makes vapid music so no he ain't on the pantheon for music but for making money.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Since 1976

______________________________________________________________
http://twitter.com/Gedi

"This is your world. Shape it or someone else will." - Gary Lew

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

.

His songs consist of the following:

I used to move coke I'm a supreme hustler

I got money cash hoes, cars, clothes!

Where is the love I need to be in your top 5 why don't you like me more?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

The kids don't know what a "Blueprint" is. And they certainly weren't
listening when American Gangster dropped.

he's made and still get a better product than 90% of rappers.

I can't shake the feeling that the GOAT should be more of a risk-taker.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

as an artist but not as an EMCEE

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

he ain't touching nobody i heard as a Kid and he wasn't a factor in my young adult life and he only really started to count over the past 12-14 years and even that is hit and Miss.

he is a Lazy turkey and just jocked Biggie basically.

he is boring and a dime a dozen.

i mean he was never a dominant cat at any stage.

he is a safe Pop Rapper with cliche streed cred.

i give him Hustle dap and the fact that he has been able to get over for so long.

but that corny Camal TUrkey is vastly Overrated and by default he is in the 25-50 Greatest Rappers Ever.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

>he only really started to
>count over the past 12-14 years

Yea - SOMETIME over the last 16 years that he's been present and potent, he started to count.

How many rappers can you say that about? Sometime in 12-14 years he says. Ahaha. That's priceless.

Listen as far as artistic talent goes, I'm on board with anyone who says that he's overrated, he's a biter, whatever...even though I still think he's MAD talented despite all that.

But to question his ability to make a hit, his ability to stay RELEVANT for SIXTEEN YEARS is ludicrous and just...shit, I don't want to say it..but it's HATING. That's all it is.

He's mad talented AND he's remained relevant for the better part of 2 decades. He's on Mount Rushmore whether you like it or not.

And I ain't even THAT big a Jay fan. You just can't deny the truth.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

and Lil wayne done matched that time with him and he is overrated as well.

Snoop Dogg still got a career as does Nas.

just because Jay Z done had a run doesn't mean it counts for much.

it ain't like how LL Cool J did it now.

can't nobody show me anything that Jay Z did better than LL COOL J at all.

point being when Jay Z was starting to blow up he was still behind DMX, then Nelly, then Ja Rule, Then Eminem, he ain't never been that dude without playing second fiddle.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

http://hiphop.hypeeater.com/wp-content/uploads/HLIC/jay-michael-jackson.jpg

Lay Z ain't never going to be on no Michael Jackson level.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

Unless, they fall out with P.Kelly.

Pathetic.


What the blood claaat ???

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

as far hip-hop artists goes.

Ain't saying MC...'cause fuck MCing anyway (everybody get mad).

I don't care if you can bring the most technical rapping around, if you ain't saying shit and if you're beat sucks....that ain't music, you might as well just do all acapellas. Do some rhythmic spoken word Poetry.

Jay-Z has the total package more so than any other rap artist. That's it.

>if you ain't saying shit and if you're beat
>sucks....that ain't music, you might as well just do all
>acapellas.

because in more cases than not Jay isn't saying shit and his beats suck.

Keep in mind this dude is old as fuck...aka he has been of Illmaticable age since the late 80s.

So over the course of his career, how many rappers have peaked higher than he has? Plenty. Everybody has their own list, but no question there are plenty of dudes who at their peak were flat out better than Jay at his peak. That to me indicates non-GOAT status. The GOAT should be the dude who, for that brief span of time, did things with his rhymes that nobody else has done before or since.

This dude is the Henry Ellard of rap. Got all these 900 yard seasons in his 30s. Give me Herman Moore and Sterling Sharpe over this wack ass Irving Fryar wannabe.

Talk about brief spans in time

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

laid that Camal to rest and with the quickness and acurate wording.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

.

Do more people reaally feel his use of Biggie's lines is biting moreso than just him being clever? I read that opinion alot and I don't see it. Of the songs i'm aware of his use of Big's lines sounds clever to me (the line's relevance to the song and the way it fits without messing up the flow). Jay-Z is too talented and that if he wanted to, he could have come up with another line but he's being... clever (repetitive, i know)

And the lines he used are obvious so its not like he's trying to "sneak" one in like it's his own- he's paying homage.

PROLLY 11 TO 15 AND NAS IS HIS FAVORITE RAPPER.

STOP IT DUMMY.

for all the reasons one could argue his greatness, someone else could argue
that he's the biggest disappointment of all time, for essentially the same reasons.

as big a Jay fan as I've been over most of his career, lately I start to side with the latter.

again, I'm always championing American Gangster around here but I really feel that's the album that officially cemented his status as the pound for pound best ever. It shot him into icon status, while also legitimatizing his status as a premier wordsmith.

Case in point, prior to this album the entire world spun around Lil Wayne. And with good reason, I don't know if we'd ever seen a rapper with Wayne's ferocious work rate and quality output up to that point. This is like Carter 2/Dedication 2/Drought 3 time. He even had the gall to say he was the best, and many believed it because of just how amazing his run was at this time. But American Gangster effectively deaded that talk, to the point that Wayne himself admitted so in Jay's presence while playing "Hello Brooklyn" in New York - pointing to Jay and acknowledging him as "the best rapper alive", then dubbing himself "the next rapper in line."

were going on in the early to mid 90s. This dude was 21 years old in 1990 and could not even get a record deal. By age 20, Nas had already woken up early on his born day, Prodigy was only 19 but his mind was older, Brenda already had a baby, LL had already rocked the bells, and everybody already knew that Rakim's style was identical to none.

In the 90s, if you were the best of the best you were already putting out near-perfect material by your mid-20s. While the best of the best were putting out THEIR best in their mid-20s, Jay-Z was finally getting a deal in his mid 20s. He drops a dud, which in retrospect doesn't look that bad, and then he waits for all the good people to fall off so he can have some time to shine. Finally in the late 2000s, you declare him "hot".

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

I'm Sorry!(c)Hov

He DIDN'T take many risks. He IS a glorified party rapper with way more skills.

But he's also managed to stay more than relevant for the better part of 2 decades.

He's on hiphop's Mount Rushmore whether anyone likes it or not. I'm a "moderate" when it comes to Hov...I recognize his shortcomings, the criticisms of him are well founded...

but at the same time this dude has remained on top or close to it for a reason.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Most of the great MC's didnt take any rish in their primes..

Jay-Z has been called average on this thread which is silly...

If I have to type 25 songs that say otherwise, I wouldnt even come on here anymore..lol

He has a few GREAT LP's and some good ones...I will not argue about classics even though RD and BP1 are to me... (RD underground NYC Street Classic & BP1 commercial classic)

His place safe...at the top (Nas, Rakim and Mos are my favorite just FYI)

He is solid in every department...

next thing you know someone will say

Elzhi >>>>>>Jay-Z (when MCing is about more than one department)

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

because by 1995 i realized glam rap would have a loooooooong run.

we still in that era. it's puffy fault.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

like, three albums ago........and the only Bad Boy albums I ever owned were Big's.

If you can't tell the difference between Hov & the ten or fifteen 'hot' stars that have came/went in the past 16 years outta loyalty to Nas, that's on you.

And I don't know why folks wanna put one on some artistic pedestal, because the reality is Nas would be doing 'party cuts' if any had stuck.

If he could make 'Give It To Me' or 'Big Pimpin' rather than 'You Owe Me' or 'Oochie Wally', he would.

That ain't some moral stand, it's recognizing what you do & don't do well.

----

https://weketchum.contently.com/

Musically. Not so much.
He has no classic albums. Pretty steady, solid career though.

>Musically. Not so much.
>He has no classic albums. Pretty steady, solid career though.

Jay has no classic or genre changing albums. He's a solid mc though.
I don't fall into the revisionist history that came along during the early 2000s. I was 19 when RD came out. Solid but not classic.
Hasn't had a great lyrical album since Vol 3. Facts.

"volume 2" changed the way everyone rapped.
"blueprint" changed the way everyone's beats sounded.

cry your eyes out.

the beginning of his 'compilation solo albus'
What does BP beats have to do with Jay? Supreme Clientele did that anyway. Jay has no classics son. He's a solid entertaining 4 mic mc and ain't shit wrong with that.

and an objective look at impact/overall outlook in the genre.

To pretend Blueprint (at the very least) is not a widely regarded classic album in hip-hop from the instant it was released & continuing through to present day, would make you appear to be grasping at straws and/or being mad.

but it's not a classic. Last classic in hiphop was 'It's Dark And Hell Is Hot'

BP was terrible lyrically. I'm from a different era. We judged things on different levels. BP isn't even his best album and his best album is 4 mics.

Blueprint actually received five mics in The Source before the Benzino thing completely fucked them in the Em battle two years later, a XXL, was Album of the Year in Vibe & was everywhere throughout that entire fourth quarter.

On top of that it rerouted the mainstream rap production focus from that Swizz sound to samples/soulfulness, eliminated all features save the other biggest rapper in the game at that time, birthed the careers of two Hall of Fame producers, dropped on September 11th & sparked one of the most legendary battles in rap history.

To pretend it wasn't a game-changer & a classic by any definition of the term outside your own opinion is dumb.

I wouldn't begrudge It's Dark or even Get Rich or Die Trying classic status even though I don't really listen to either much or think they meet the 'lyrical' standard you seem to champion.

Jay hit on every cylinder on that album (critics, peers, heads, mainstream), Blueprint even changed the way this very board viewed him (The Lesson had very different, more dogmatic tastes in the early OKP era of 99-01) & then shortly thereafter sparked the Unplugged album with The Legendary.

Your 'we' is 'you' & based on your last example of a classic, you might be a bitter holdout Dark Man X fan.

Jay was concentrating on making a great album & some of those beats/song-concepts warranted a more streamlined approach rather than trying to rhyme like Ras Kass to please rap-olympic-nerds.

Still raps circles around anything DMX ever did in his career on that album so miss me with your arbitrary standards.

shit since around 96/97. You should know that.
Jay has no classics. None. If you wanna call it classic, go right ahead. But judge it the same as you judged classics in the 80s and 90s. Is it still a classic to you?

RD was a solid album like most his albums are.
But in 96? Hell on earth, De La joint, Ridin Dirty, Atliens, IWW, Big Mike joint, Pac joints and not to mind the previous year Diary, Do or Die, OB4CL, Dogg Food with the Show and NJD soundtracks were all more played and and better but they didn't recieved classic ratings either. Jay is a great mc. He just doesn't have any classic albums

.

History shows that. He's nothing more than a consistent Tela.
And that's the TRUTH..RUTH

because even in Hip Hop's golden run of say 85-98 where if you dropped that one album and everybody was riding for you like that, he never had that album which was the end all be all.

what hurts Jay Z as well and I'm talking strickly east coast here, because Out West here it wasn't until late 98 mid 99 that he even made a bit of a dent.

but before that he wasn't getting no shine like dat.

his stans refuse to acknowledge or admit he never dominanted any time.

yeah he had cross over hits and some bangers, but was he ever the Man like that? Naw just the co star.

truth is Jay Z got alot out of the Madonna marketing playbook IMO

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