-Sly
-Maurice White
-Lionel Ritchie
-Frankie Beverly
-Teddy P
-Ron Isley

^^^all are great no doubt and were probably part of better bands but Morris Day was/is in a class by himself when it comes to charisma. No one cultivated a better public persona than him.

grassrootsphilosopher

for serious,
the george clinton concert i went to last weekend was like a gospel revival.

the p-funk mythology might as well be a religion.

george clinton, and his various alter egos,
is the correct answer.

of nature nonetheless...


>for serious,
>the george clinton concert i went to last weekend was like a
>gospel revival.
>
>the p-funk mythology might as well be a religion.
>
>george clinton, and his various alter egos,
>is the correct answer.

I would describe him as more quirky for his uniqueness
>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

as a front man I don't think it got more charasmatic...

particularly at his best....his mere presence on stage would just set the whole thing off into something otherworldly..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lg5Uudc2Io

doesnt really play instruments.
doesn't really sing.

he just has the force that brings the madness together for the show.

he just has... "it."

he's the man.


>
>as a front man I don't think it got more charasmatic...
>
>particularly at his best....his mere presence on stage would
>just set the whole thing off into something otherworldly..
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lg5Uudc2Io

Morris is probably 1b to me. It's a shame that he barely hack it without the band after a certain point. He's like David Lee Roth... IMO, he's better with Van Halen (though he came out on a great note), Morris was always better with The Time. (Ditto for Ruffin and the Temps... it's CRAZY to think he was only there for like 4 years, he's forever identified with having been the "voice" of the band... a band, that rotated its lead singers so as not to give the illusion of a sole frontman).

Lionel is very underrated in this regard however. If you ever hear COMMODORES LIVE (from 1977), it's really clear here. Walter Orange going the Miles Davis Jr. route after Lionel left, trying to fill that hole just did not work, IMO. He works as a front vocal on a great number of their songs... but not the kind of guy that you immediately associate with the band, despite having been the voice on their most famous song ("Brick House").

I'm almost tempted to say Michael Jackson (kid or teen) fits here too.

DavidLeeRoth/WendyOWilliams - I dunno.. I mean in terms of black musicians... sure... but then there was Betty Davis/George Clinton (who owns this post)... and some of the list that Maxx supplied.. cause Ray Parker was boring on stage but great in the studio...

my thinking is you mean both studio and stage...

but more charismatic than Sly? I don't think so.

>DavidLeeRoth/WendyOWilliams - I dunno.. I mean in terms of
>black musicians... sure... but then there was Betty
>Davis/George Clinton (who owns this post)... and some of the
>list that Maxx supplied.. cause Ray Parker was boring on stage
>but great in the studio...
>
>my thinking is you mean both studio and stage...
>
>but more charismatic than Sly? I don't think so.
>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

Sugarfoot

Roger Troutman

Steve Arrington

Bootsy Collins

Frankie Beverly

Lenny Williams

Jeffrey Osbourne

Ray Parker Jr

Lionel B RIchie
that's 13 for you right there.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

of them was/is as charismatic as Morris Day...


>Sugarfoot
>
>Roger Troutman
>
>Steve Arrington
>
>Bootsy Collins
>
>Frankie Beverly
>
>Lenny Williams
>
>Jeffrey Osbourne
>
>Ray Parker Jr
>
>Lionel B RIchie
>that's 13 for you right there.

grassrootsphilosopher

what double crack you is on?

Mr Biggs Turkey is a Household name in the Hood. you better ask somebody.

Mr. Biggs Persona>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Morris Day and the Mirror turkey.

Charlie Wilson is even bigger now.

Roger Troutman alone had it all Bro ham.

you ain't been around folk to know.

Lionel B.Richie is laughing at you sideways and cross eyed.

Charisma,Persona and flipped many styles as a solo artist.

Ray parker Jr is laughing at you and treating you like a Rodney Allen Ripley Commerical on Mute.

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Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

solo acts could mean they were able to reinvent themselves


>what double crack you is on?
>
>Mr Biggs Turkey is a Household name in the Hood. you better
>ask somebody.

da foh that Mr. Biggs ish was simple and corny from jump...and you can't compare the Mr. Bigg persona bs he's been doing for maybe a decade to Morris Day who's made a career out of being COOL and CHARISMATIC.
>
>Mr. Biggs Persona>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Morris Day and the
>Mirror turkey.
>
>Charlie Wilson is even bigger now.

that's because they're great artist, you're conflating the differences btw sheer artistry and what it means to be charismatic.
>
>Roger Troutman alone had it all Bro ham.
>
>you ain't been around folk to know.
>
>Lionel B.Richie is laughing at you sideways and cross eyed.

Lionel Ritchie is one of the greatest's songwriters of all time and had a great voice but he was nowhere in the same stratosphere as Morris Day in terms of charisma...wtf are you talking abt??
>
>Charisma,Persona and flipped many styles as a solo artist.
>
>Ray parker Jr is laughing at you and treating you like a
>Rodney Allen Ripley Commerical on Mute.

yeah ok...I'm no one would agree w/you that Ray "I'm in love w/the other woman" Parker Jr. as being more charismatic than Morris Day. Matter of fact, the "Time" itself were uber cool and charismatic and Morris Day was the perfect frontman. I don't believe there could have been another male singer who could have pulled it off being the lead man of the 'Time' as Morris Day - he had the clothes, the persona, the overall smooth style, and they had great and catchy songs that were perfectly suited for their band only.

You're waaaay off on this one...

grassrootsphilosopher

if Morris had all of that then he would have had the solo career.

charisma and personality and school cafeteria music and tattor tots deleivery makes you constipated and that is Morris day's solo career.

oak tree was cool and fishnet and then what else?

folks clowned his solo career and he wasn't much without his back up band as a solo artist.

now Morris was clean and cool a Great drummer and did a little something on the keyboards but a ok writer at best and everything else was dime a dozen and he never had that next level as those cats at being a solo artist.

More folks are into Mr Biggs ROnald isley than Morris day.

Mr.Biggs got that Pimp cane and songs fool.

Ray Parker Jr was cool and had the cuts with persona and attitude.

morris day wasn't as cool as Kid Creole turkey. the black david lee roth thing meets Priest Superfly came and went quickly

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Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

You know damn well Jeffrey can't dance to save his life.

He's dope as singer tho - Love Ballad stays in rotation.

Morris Day Is The Most Charismatic R&B Frontman Ever In A Band..."

-Sly
-Maurice White
-Lionel Ritchie
-Frankie Beverly
-Teddy P
-Ron Isley

^^^all are great no doubt and were probably part of better bands but Morris Day was/is in a class by himself when it comes to charisma. No one cultivated a better public persona than him.

please forgive...lol...

I mean if you say R&B bands... then at least we have a much better convo - but even that isn't true.

Sly takes second place to Morris? Nahman. And I love Morris.
I really love Morris - I mean I applaud you making a post about Morris and the Time cause to me, they are just too unsung.

Def daps for this.

.

and it ain't even close.

then you got

Lionel B.Richie

Larry Blackmon

Maurice White

Sly Stone

Teddy Pendergrass

Babyface

El Debarge

Bobby Brown

R.Kelly

Diana Ross

Beyonce

Ray Parker Jr.

Patti Labelle

Eddie Levert

Phillipe Wynne

Steve Arrington

Bobby Debarge

Levi Stubbs

David Ruffin

Ralph Trasvant

frankie beverly

ronald isley

charlie wilson



Morris day is like David Lee Roth had what seemed like it all in a tight band or group enviroment but solo wasn't much there aside from a few cuts.


i liked Morris's thing as a kid but that was then. he was cool in the 80's and in truth that is the only time that thing could fly.

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Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

appearance along w/innate and powerfully sophisticated personal communicability and persuasiveness...

that definition of charisma doesn't describe Michael Jackson who, when he wasn't on stage performing, was shy and totally recluse. I know chicks liked MJ when he was young but it wasn't because of his personal charisma but moreso because of his child like innocence and of course his genius.

Morris Day exuded a forceful personality w/o even opening his mouth. This is why he oftentimes overshadowed Prince as his opening act back in the day when they toured together...and why he *STOLE* the show in Purple Rain in his acting debut.

> and it ain't even close.
>
>then you got
>
>Lionel B.Richie
>
>Larry Blackmon
>
>Maurice White
>
>Sly Stone
>
>Teddy Pendergrass
>
>Babyface
>
>El Debarge
>
>Bobby Brown
>
>R.Kelly
>
>Diana Ross
>
>Beyonce
>
>Ray Parker Jr.
>
>Patti Labelle
>
>Eddie Levert
>
>Phillipe Wynne
>
>Steve Arrington
>
>Bobby Debarge
>
>Levi Stubbs
>
>David Ruffin
>
>Ralph Trasvant
>
>
>
>
>
>Morris day is like David Lee Roth had what seemed like it all
>in a tight band or group enviroment but solo wasn't much there
>aside from a few cuts.

no because he was so connected to the 'Time' that I think it was hard for fans to distinguish and accept him as a solo artist.
>
>
>i liked Morris's thing as a kid but that was then. he was cool
>in the 80's and in truth that is the only time that thing
>could fly.

but their music doesn't sound dated...but the stage act was all 80s.

grassrootsphilosopher

in fact he went into another gear when with his brothers and I got Homies that loved him with his brothers and really felt the power of his magic on stage with them fo real fo real.

Morris day was just like david lee roth appeared to have more going for himself in a band and when he went solo he was truly Blankman.

you see the answer is obviously Michael Joe Jackson because he turned it on in a Group setting and then went a whole different notch solo.

watch Motown 25 with his brothers and then solo and he had the whole audience losing it.

Morris day and his chilli sauce ain't never turned it out like no MJ.

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Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

so i don't think of him
as fronting a band... even though that's exactly
what he's doing.

that's why i went w/ george clinton.

he draws your attention to himself,
and the collective of p-funk.



i never think of the jacksons/ the jackson 5
as a band... mostly b/c i ignore the other jacksons
whenever they do anything. lol

are just there as a backup and not part of a collective.




>so i don't think of him
>as fronting a band... even though that's exactly
>what he's doing.
>
>that's why i went w/ george clinton.
>
>he draws your attention to himself,
>and the collective of p-funk.
>
>
>
>i never think of the jacksons/ the jackson 5
>as a band... mostly b/c i ignore the other jacksons
>whenever they do anything. lol

grassrootsphilosopher

but how are you gonna be a front man
if i don't even notice that your "band" is there?

he might as well be a solo act.

i mean, i'm sure i'd heard some Jackson 5 and Jacksons records (i was in love w/'Heartbreak Hotel' @ the time) but it didn't really register that those other dudes were his brothers and that they were in a group together. i'd thought they were his backup singers/dancers. then w/Motown 25 it clicked. the Jackson 5 cartoon re-runs helped too. i think i started picking up on those later in 1983.

fuck you.

was Prince mimicking Morris? Prince mimicking Alex O'Neal?

fuck you.

>was Prince mimicking Morris? Prince mimicking Alex O'Neal?
>

grassrootsphilosopher

fuck you.

actually part of it was Prince along with Andre Cymone and then they saw Kid Creole and morphed it into that.

however Prince tried to do it for "Cherry Moon" and got laughed at.

Morris made it work back then however it was corny when he went solo and in truth it was a 80's thing.

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Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

mullet, Larry Blackmon's red cup was corny and so on...

the difference is Morris Day's image and style was part of who he was and who the band was which is why, unlike a lot of other r&b acts of the 80s who were always reinventing themselves to stay current, it was hard for them to change up their image to suit the times...


> actually part of it was Prince along with Andre Cymone and
>then they saw Kid Creole and morphed it into that.
>
>however Prince tried to do it for "Cherry Moon" and got
>laughed at.
>
>Morris made it work back then however it was corny when he
>went solo and in truth it was a 80's thing.

grassrootsphilosopher

i always wanted the shiny purple trench coat
that prince wore in "little read corveete."

where the fuck did he get that?
certainly not norstroms.
not in any other departement stores i've ever seen, either.




and as for MJ, those costumes he used to wear on stage...
again, where did he get that?

how does one find these clothes?


why don't they exist in stores?

wanted that "Beat It' jacket nor the one he wore in 'Thriller.' lmao

Prince wore ish that only he could wear. At least ppl were brave enough to wear the MJ zipper jackets in public...but there was nothing that Prince wore that you wouldn't be looked at as insane if you wore it in public...

a lot of those outfits were corny to men then even though I was fans of both...

Morris Day on the other hand dressed smooth as hell to me w/the fly as smoking jackets and the stacey adams...


>i always wanted the shiny purple trench coat
>that prince wore in "little read corveete."
>
>where the fuck did he get that?
>certainly not norstroms.
>not in any other departement stores i've ever seen, either.
>
>
>
>
>and as for MJ, those costumes he used to wear on stage...
>again, where did he get that?
>
>how does one find these clothes?
>
>
>why don't they exist in stores?

grassrootsphilosopher

>wanted that "Beat It' jacket nor the one he wore in
>'Thriller.' lmao
>





i meant the spaceage superhero costume he wore
during the "bad" tour...



http://tinyurl.com/7pgv62r


^^ yeah, man!
you can't tell me that joint isn't cool.

what kind of material is that even made of?
it looks like it was designed by NASA!



and as for prince,
i am positive i can pull off the 3/4 legnth shiny purple trench coat.
i would rock it w/ a button down and some sneakers, though...

not the high heels and the pirate shirt.

the ruffle shirts,boots and shades plus a couple of jackets were cool, but other than that, Prince dressed like some rainbow M&M's gone wrong.

as for MJ i dug the threads from Motown 25, thriller threads and a few other things.

MJ was gangster he had folks rocking high water pants dime in there laofers and a Hamburger helper glitter glove.

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one of those things only he can get away with wearing, but didn't really seem done-up for the stage, either. There was a video with Diana Ross from some TV show in the early '80s where he's wearing something similiar. IMO that was his best look outside of his late '70s tuxedo look.

>one of those things only he can get away with wearing, but
>didn't really seem done-up for the stage, either.



after he died, they had some footage
of MJ just lounging around the house, talking on the phone.

and yes, he was STILL rocking something
that looked like he was getting ready to hop on stage.


that's just his taste.





and i know you saw "this is it."
when MJ was rocking the fusha pants and the orange jacket.

notice that that wasn't a dress rehersal.
nobody else was wearing their stage clothes.

well, MJ wasn't either.



that's what he chose to put on
when he rolled out of bed that morning.

>after he died, they had some footage
>of MJ just lounging around the house, talking on the phone.
>
>and yes, he was STILL rocking something
>that looked like he was getting ready to hop on stage.

believe that.

Larry Blackmon with the high top fade and red cup became iconic in some circles.

Morris threads were cool for a minute and then he was dressing like somebody's curtains at Montgomery wards or something.

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Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

http://tinyurl.com/7pgv62r

> believe that.
>
>Larry Blackmon with the high top fade and red cup became
>iconic in some circles.
>
>Morris threads were cool for a minute and then he was dressing
>like somebody's curtains at Montgomery wards or something.

MJ started rocking Lex Lugar belt buckle threads.

that was kinda corny IMO.

the remember the time threads were tight.

smooth criminal threads were tight.

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i find it impossible to believe that
two different people would have idiosyncracies that were that similar.

but who was immitating who?

the world may never know.

i think most of his persona was his own making - prince just wrote the songs. though something did happen after the first time album - morris kinda came into his own as a character.

>i think most of his persona was his own making - prince just
>wrote the songs. though something did happen after the first
>time album - morris kinda came into his own as a character.

On that first album, it really feels like Morris doing the motions over Prince guide vocals. From that second album forward, you heard Morris's laugh among other things that I just can't see anyone else doing. There were a number of Prince-isms thrown into the scripted lines (which IMO didn't fit; e.g. "We don't like new wave" in that Controversy-era monotone. That shit -was- new wave and pretty un-Morris). But obviously, the songs (and the lyrics) from album 2 forward were written to make Morris sound more like "himself".

Prince doing the same sort of thing just isn't as...engaging, even though it can be funny (see: Under The Cherry Moon). The laugh and everything. I just don't see Prince doing it.

Prince works better as the misfit lothario more than anything else. "Tricky", one of the few actually released sides that had the left over "Prince as Morris" voice on there... it's just not as funny unless you try and imagine Prince actually saying that.

and his performance
in purple rain was one of the highlights.. can't think
of many rnb frontmans who would have performed as well in a movie if they had tried..

great all around entertainer..

talented as a lot of the other front men which is why he had to possess other qualities...and being charismatic was essential to what made him (and "The Time") stand out in that area over any other frontmen.

>and his performance
>in purple rain was one of the highlights.. can't think
>of many rnb frontmans who would have performed as well in a
>movie if they had tried..
>
>great all around entertainer..
>
>
>
>
>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

for house goodness:

http://www.djrsenal.com

http://soundcloud.com/dj-rsenal

ahhh, why the hell not:
www.facebook.com/djrsenal
www.twitter.com/djrsenal

frontmen were more talented than Morris Day. Many were better singers and better performers and made better music

but

no frontman was as charismatic as he was...to me it's not even close.

grassrootsphilosopher

MJ, Lionel Richie, Stevie Wonder or R. Kelly.

it's best to just ignore him.

fuck you.

and it ain't like that Morris totally was even the most popular in the band because a certain brother rocking Pink named Jesse Johnson had alot of fans as well.

morris was cool from 81-84 and then what?

he didn't have nothing in his solo career to build on.

hit and miss solo career at best.

corny to below par tv shows.

and one note johnny characters in film post purple rain.

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besides Apples... Morris ran away with that film and it wasn't even close.

this is an ongoing debate between my friend and me.


who would you rather hang out with?
morris or prince.


we came to this conclusion....

prince, if he's in a good mood,
would be good company b/w the hours of 10:00 AM and 6:00 PM.

you'd get great conversation.... maybe listen to some cool tunes....
great stuff.


it's cool to hang with prince during daylight hours.









but once the sun goes down...
you don't wanna be around prince.

b/c at some point, prince will start falling into his own melancholy,
and he's gonna get bored, and he's gonna look into your eyes...
and things will begin to get exceptionally uncomfortable.






meanwhile, around the time it starts getting dark,
morris will be ready to hit the town and do things
most guys would feel comfortable with doing.


so the verdict is... prince (depending on his mood)
would be cool to chill with in the DAY time.

bit when the sun goes down,
party w/ Morris.



>besides Apples... Morris ran away with that film and it
>wasn't even close.
>
>

>this is an ongoing debate between my friend and me.
>
>
>who would you rather hang out with?
>morris or prince.
>
>
>we came to this conclusion....
>
>prince, if he's in a good mood,
>would be good company b/w the hours of 10:00 AM and 6:00 PM.
>
>you'd get great conversation.... maybe listen to some cool
>tunes....
>great stuff.
>
>
>it's cool to hang with prince during daylight hours.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>but once the sun goes down...
>you don't wanna be around prince.
>
>b/c at some point, prince will start falling into his own
>melancholy,
>and he's gonna get bored, and he's gonna look into your
>eyes...
>and things will begin to get exceptionally uncomfortable.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>meanwhile, around the time it starts getting dark,
>morris will be ready to hit the town and do things
>most guys would feel comfortable with doing.
>
>
>so the verdict is... prince (depending on his mood)
>would be cool to chill with in the DAY time.
>
>bit when the sun goes down,
>party w/ Morris.
>
>
>
>>besides Apples... Morris ran away with that film and it
>>wasn't even close.
>>
>>
>

--------------------

blah blah blah

innovative cats in the last 25-30 yrs but was nowhere near as cool/charismatic as Morris Day...

grassrootsphilosopher

Roger was funny and cool then he would start playing guitar and jam on the keys and dance.

Roger was too black though.

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>Roger was too black though.

some shows from Houston
there was a link for a show in LA...

no one was messing with Roger.

he's a solo artist within a group. Sort of like Ray Parker Jr. with Raydio (where that's DEFINITELY true... in the studio, he and Arnell Carmichael WERE the group (with an assist from Jerry Knight on album 1, and Ollie Brown on albums 3 and 4).)

And he's such an untraditional front man, to boot.

albeit Morris plays a number of instruments as well - but Roger? Sheeit... sorely sorely overlooked.

never really listened to them

go watch Rick james doing "big time" on soul train back in 1980 check out the mannerisms and attitude and Rick had that new wave thing going on with the threads and attitude.

Morris and prince sat around and jacked alot off of RIck James.

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Morris evolved from a high-school drop-out look into something more faux-bourgeois. Everything from his walk, to his laugh, to his brand name dropping gave that vibe. What made him cool was the "street" undertones to his one-liners. Kind of like what would happen if Carlton Banks went to Carver High instead of Bel-Air Academy.

Rick, conversely, was straight and unapologetically street, but in a way that if he decided to steal David Lee Roth's mike as Van Halen was playing and take over... he would do it. His style seemed more inspired by Larry Dotson's, but Rick stripped it even more down and dared people to say something.

I look at Rick on Dave Letterman, and here's a level of singular, atomized confidence you just didn't see in Black Male performers aiming to bust out of the usual confines at the time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzhGJx48H1o


Morris was more "undertones", Rick was more about saying it outright. In the latter sense, I think Prince took a lot from him.

Morris said about as much after Rick Passed. Prince sponged off RJ and all you gotta do is watch that soul train clip from 1980 and you see alot of things that morris ended up doing on stage. the purple camp robbed the stone city camp period.

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if we want to pull out all the stops.

Not to mention the funkadelic vibe in general and then flat out denied it.

I mean, I see your point - but if we are connecting the dots so loosely then Rick jacked Bootsy. See how unfair that is?

of way...

Morris Day is an original, period, point blank...

no one, I mean no one would even try and tie those two together LOL...but this is OKP.

you give Rick James way too much credit lol




> go watch Rick james doing "big time" on soul train back in
>1980 check out the mannerisms and attitude and Rick had that
>new wave thing going on with the threads and attitude.
>
>Morris and prince sat around and jacked alot off of RIck
>James.

grassrootsphilosopher

I guess you were right... this is OKP.

<----

Larry Otis!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeM89CITvMc

and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
http://soundcloud.com/toughjunkie/sets/larry-otis-leaks

funkateers during that era...in terms of image and sound

but

there is NO ONE that anyone can Morris Day got his style/image from

grassrootsphilosopher

So we'll have to agree to disagree.

Then again,
the whole point of this argument is to decide who is most charismatic which is purely subjective already.

<----

Larry Otis!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeM89CITvMc

and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
http://soundcloud.com/toughjunkie/sets/larry-otis-leaks

these younger cats don't know about the reach of Rick James and his impact and it shows.

Prince at times from 79 and 80 looked like Rick's baby brother in photos and his mannerisms and things he did on stage.


he got a whole lot off of the King of Funk. Rick was too Black and he paid a price.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

made a connection btw The Time and Rick James in terms of their style and image and live shows, nothing...

2nd of all, if you're saying the nexus btw the two is musically then that isn't altogether true either...and the reason being was because Prince WROTE EVERY SINGLE NOTE ON ALL THE TIME'S ALBUMS and the other reason is that Prince (and Jam and Lewis) has said in past interviews that *Parliament* was The Time's musical influence when he was trying to create a sound for the group, not Rick James.


>these younger cats don't know about the reach of Rick James
>and his impact and it shows.
>
>Prince at times from 79 and 80 looked like Rick's baby brother
>in photos and his mannerisms and things he did on stage.

foh - the fact of the matter is Prince is a better overall artist than Rick ever was, he was better @ songwriting, performing, producing, composing, album concepts, the whole nine and Rick James was ENVIOUS of Prince and proclaimed that his bitterness towards Prince is because he stole Rick James' live show routines...whether that's true or not, the FACT of the matter is that Prince went on to reach a level of superstardom that Rick could've never had and for the record, Prince use to always upstage Rick James as his opening act to the point much of the crowd would leave before the main act would come on which was Rick...and that's what Rick James hated abt Prince more than anything else.

And foh w/that "Rick was too blk" nonsense as the reason why he didn't reach the same level of superstardom that Prince did even though that's what he sought. Rick James wasn't any "blacker" than James Brown who didn't seem to be held back because of his blackness. Rick James himself was the reason for his own undoing, bottom line. And once his star started to fade in the mid 80s while Prince's star was fastly rising, he really thought Prince should have put him back on since he let Prince open for him...

>he got a whole lot off of the King of Funk. Rick was too Black
>and he paid a price.

nah Rick was a drug addict who admitted that his drug addiction was why he squandered his opportunity to become a bigger star.

grassrootsphilosopher

FYI there was time when Rick James was bigger than MJ, Prince and Lionel Richie combined.

he had the music, the style and the swagger.

Prince got alot off of him. Prince didn't even get his writing pen in full effect until "when you were mine" dropped. dirty mind got him his voice and 1999 established his sound, but dude Prince on those first two albums was a clone of everything out there and he wasn't seeing no Rick James from 78-81 you better go ask somebody.

matter of fact he wasn't at Rick james's stop light until He dropped "1999"

drugs and drive stopped Rick but when Rick was on his game and Motivated he burried Prince and was far Funkier and was more Soulful.

Rick was a Better Songwriter,producer and Arranger.

Prince got the instrumental edge and lasted longer, but having said that they both faded after 88 and I give Rick James the edge.

Rick had the better Protege acts as well. Teena Marie and the Mary Jane girls.

the Stone city band got Prince Bands beat as well IMO.


Rick had full Blown Bands and things Rick could rock a full band sound and the synth funk.

Prince had the synth funk, but Prince with a full band assembly like what RIck James had sounds like a Old Man.

Come and Get it through Street Songs>>>>>>>>>Prince 78-81 IMO.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

Rick had it and did it all.

Rick got stuff from P Funk and Sly,Ohio Players,Eddie Levert, and other acts a smart hybrid and yet he still had it funky and his own signature sound and vibe.

George Clinton, Little Richard and James Brown all said in unison about Rick james he took the Funk to the mainstream and made it fun.

ain't been no one else like RIck James

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

>-Sly
>-Maurice White
>-Lionel Ritchie
>-Frankie Beverly
>-Teddy P
>-Ron Isley
>
>^^^all are great no doubt and were probably part of better
>bands but Morris Day was/is in a class by himself when it
>comes to charisma. No one cultivated a better public persona
>than him.

I mean as awesome of a band as The Time was, Morris Day was that dude. I was pretty young at the time Prince and The Time kind of took over (well at least to me they took over) the early 80's, so the stuff that Morris Day was doing kind of epitomized what a cool young brother should be doing to my young impressionable mind.

Looking back on it now, it all looks ridiculous and corny, but I'll be damned if at one point I didn't think wearing a pair of Stacy Adams, baggy trousers, a skinny tie and a wild blazer were the highest of highs in the world of cool.

--------------------

blah blah blah

though morris was as much of a brilliant R&B frontman as he was kind of a send up of the R&B frontman.

its weird, i dont think i know that much about how he developed his persona. people prob think its all prince, but i think morris developed that on his own.

also local Minnapolis Pimps and Players inspired as did Kid Creole.

with Prince and them its a whole lot of people and they just mixed it up as one big gumbo and they would be lying if they said otherwise.

like that scene in Purple Rain when Jerome throws ole girl in the trash that was straight outta the Mack when Goldie threw that short dude in the dumpster.

Prince and them did some serious cut and paste. Morris did as well and the Irony of the Matter Morris hated that character he played, however it paid the bills.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

Morris hated that character
>he played, however it paid the bills.

because Morris said a many a time what you see isn't what he really is. Prince and his management pushed that aingle and persona and Morris went along with it.

that was mainly Prince's character however Morris played it better and was more believeable with it than prince remember Prince in Cherry Moon? and Shelia E tries it and it comes off corny, but Morris had that role down pat, but he never liked it. its Show Biz Yo.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

thats debatable......Ive seen Morris Day and the Time live many times and they put on a damn good show but I also heard that Roger Troutman of Zapp was also a great performer when he was alive. I also heard that one of someone's musical highlights was hearing him do a cover of rick james "cold blooded" on the talkbox during the soundcheck back in 85.

>highlights was hearing him do a cover of rick james "cold
>blooded" on the talkbox during the soundcheck back in 85.

OldPro....where are you?

Much as I really, really like The Time, I can't put MD at #1. He's great at what he does, but he doesn't have much emotional (or vocal) range. Sure, he does the funny funky thing, but what about sad songs, political songs, etc.

Above him, I'd put:
- George Clinton
- David Ruffin when he was with The Temptations
- James Taylor of Kool & the Gang
- and a few others

MD is in the top 10 though.

I was about to say Larry Blackmon but you said R&B, I can agree with that

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this