Context: informal discussion about rap, touching on sampling laws and production. I mention still loving the Bomb Squad. Blank stares.

This is where we're at as a society.

and aside from the black eyed peas in recent memory the hip hop group is slowly fading from view, think about it

PE was a time period thing. not a knock just a fact

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

You still know who they are.

The issue here isn't the fact that they don't know who PE is but the fact that they don't know history or the importance of history at all.

the kids aren't music geeks like us. that's all.

i'd be shocked and sucking my teeth if music geek kids didn't know PE. but regular kids w/other interests? not so much.

fuck you.

>the kids aren't music geeks like us.

In a classroom of 24 I'd expect at least one to self identify as a music geek for a 4% ratio. Of course that's assuming that the other 23 identify themselves as fans of music. I believe that would represent an accurate break down of the general population.

If that were the case, and the 4% of young music fans that identify themselves as music geeks were not aware of PE, it would support my case that indeed the band's greatest work may be falling out of the canon.

Unless of course they are performing halftime shows ten years from now, then I assume that someone will be complaining that there's some revisionism going on in the way PE is being forced into legendary status.



________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

fuck you.

These kids don't think past 15 minutes in the past and 15 minutes in the future.

That's the sad shit.

I wasn't limiting that to just hip-hop.

and i LOL'd @ PE's importance to history in general. the group is not that important in the history of the world that kids just gotta know who they are or else they're woefully stupid such that we need to be in here wringing our hands and worried about the future.

fuck you.

PEs importance is in the world of Hip-Hop.

I was making the point that these kids don't study or care about the history of hip-hop because they don't study or care about the importance of any history.

But at this point, I'm hoping these kids are a little smarter than you.

It's good when young generations are smarter than older ones. That's progress.

fuck you.

In many cases that is not what I'm observing.

And that isn't because they don't have the ability to be smarter than us.

they are known, PE was on some abbott and costello tip and faded away and flavor flav is seen as deep as Lil Wayne by some. they were never the same post Griff imo,chuck d is one of the greatest mc's however when they faded they faded hard

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

where kids have to be music geeks to know the music you knew at their age.

much like we had to be geeks to know the music our parents were into as teens.

welcome. they ran out of stewed prunes at the buffet but more are on the way.

fuck you.

As an aside, my daughter left a a field trip note in my car prior to school. Mind you, she is technically astute. I say i'll fax it your school. She goes, daddy, whats a fax?

Talk about welcome to old age

I mean, I get what you're saying, but for a while there PE was arguably the most important rap act on the planet. I mean, I was a music geek to be sure, but I didn't need to be a geek to know who the damned Beatles were.

they were on top for like 2 yrs, really. they're one of my faves of all time but i understand they're kind of a cult thing.

fuck you.

>they're kind of a cult
>thing.

And between Sister Souljah, Professor Griff, the Anthrax collaboration, and "By the Time I Get to Arizona," they were perpetually in the mainstream news for like four straight years.

I mean, maybe not the Beatles, but they're at least Creedence Clearwater.

....not saying they should, but i always thought that colabo was kinda overrated ...it wasnt exactly Run DMC & Aerosmith levels of spreading hip hop

I propose minimum standards.

That's about the age when you start to to really notice what's going on outside of your own house.

PE had been far out of the public eye for about 8 years, at that point.

It seems weird now that PE got some airplay in that era, but I remember seeing that video on MTV quite a few times, and I remember them being interviewed on MTV around that time. Chuck said PE was like the Chicago Bulls....they might be old, but they're still kicking ass. Something like that.

it was an interesting bridge between two underground cultures that had similar messages but different audiences.


sidenote for some strange reason my dad had a strange re-occuring joke saying that he knew joey the lead singer from anthrax.

fuck you.

Classic rock fans do and I would expect fans of 80's/"Golden age" Hip-Hop to know PE. Others? Not so much...

What *I* find more worrying is that even Hip-Hop fans who know their shit don't really care anymore but that's been discussed.

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

might not know a song but they know his voice.

regular listeners dont follow production teams like that.

hmmmmmm....
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Show them something current or connected to a fave that borrows from that time frame and then it'll make sense to them (hopefully)

*********************
www.dumhi.com -- We are ALL dumhi

sympathizing with Chuck when he decided to sue over that. not that i think he was right then or now but at the same time, if this is what it boils down to, he kinda had a point.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Also I you will be surprised how many people listen & know about Public Enemy but don't know who the Bomb Squad is, just cause not many people pay attention to producers of rap music unless that producer is rapping or shouting out their name on their tracks half the time.

So mentioning the Bomb Squad isn't something even some rap music lovers would know right off the bat, but Chuck D. & Flavor Flav they would definitely know.

https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

by looking up hip hop samples

now I fucking love jazz

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

<--- Big Baller World Order

silk.later Reunion radio with Old P. & Silk http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

"i'm talking about *Balls Deep*....In Love (c)Cleveland Jr.

He was cultivating a fine nigga farm (c)Goldmind.

R.I.P Jamie Hubley

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topics&forum=5&page=

they have had zero reason to know them so...no big deal really, just introduce them to their ears.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

And that's the real root of my frustration. They don't understand how PE (and certainly NWA) were interested in challenging the white power structure, and how controversial and inflammatory that challenge was in the context of the 1980s. I mean, the S1Ws, the target reticle logo...those were terrifying symbols in that context.

On my course web site I posted the original video for "Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos." Several students, both black and white, watched it, and as best as I can tell, their reaction was indifference.

They don't understand that PE was communicating in the language of social revolution.

NWA connected because I grew up in L.A., and even because their songs had more lasting power than Public Enemy's did. But I'm a music head, so of course I know P.E. Most people my age are familiar with them, know their main songs, BUT they'll still identify Flava Flav more with "Flavor of love" than P.E...some may not even be able to tell you what group he came from.

------------------------------

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Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

They're students. You're a teacher. Y'all are in school. Make it happen.

fuck you.

that it favors classic rock.
Like, take the Beatles. There was that movie based on their songs ("Across The Universe").
Most kids have seen "Across The Universe" or atleast heard of it.
GLEE. That tv show is always using old songs.
Just not P.E.
P.E. hasn't gotten the same treatment (except for being inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame).

Unless the pop culture industry uses P.E. in a commercial (like the same way they used Black Sheep's "The Choice is Yours" for that car commercial), kids won't know or care.

God bless the USA. SMH.

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https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

in 1990. Kids don't want to listen to that shit.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

the former is kinda understandable

i'm 23...and while i've listened to it takes a nation, yo!, and fear of a black planet, it was mostly just to say i did. i never really feel the desire to go back and listen to those albums, although a couple songs do stay in my rotation.


i would be pretty shocked if it's the latter tho

i mean i still haven't heard a RUN-DMC record in full, but it'd be near impossible to not know who they are, hip-hop fan or not.

Doubt kids are blasting 36 chambers like that but EVERYONE has heard of Wu Tang

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

the past couple weeks. i love it.

I'm 21 and I love public enemy but anyway

If you are that age and you are really into hip hop(or at least consider yourself to be) not knowing who they are/having heard one of their records....is fucking inexcusable

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https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

"if you don't like Album/Artist X your are not a fan of Genre X"

wtf???

AnonymousCoward hit the nail on the head. I guarantee this is the reasoning why most don't really love PE like that. Me and a Co-worker had this talk...hes much older than me but agreed even during their time PE wasnt for everyone.

Hip-Hop isn't one dimensional...why does fandom need to be?

>
>Hip-Hop isn't one dimensional...why does fandom need to be?
>


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." � Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>AnonymousCoward hit the nail on the head. I guarantee this is
>the reasoning why most don't really love PE like that. Me and
>a Co-worker had this talk...hes much older than me but agreed
>even during their time PE wasnt for everyone.

No, they definitely weren't. I loved them, and still do, but I understand why somebody wouldn't. But understanding and appreciating their role in music and (maybe more importantly) culture doesn't require love.

For example, though I love PE, I don't love NWA, simply for aesthetic reasons. But I surely appreciate NWA and what they accomplished both musically and culturally. Even more to the point, I really don't enjoy most of the Beatles catalog very much...but obviously I appreciate their music and their cultural legacy. And with both groups I've at least listened to the music...

>> But understanding and
>appreciating their role in music and (maybe more importantly)
>culture doesn't require love.

i'm definitely a music nerd myself but recently i've learned to detach my petty qualifiers from casual fans. it's pointless and results in nerdy Lesson posts in search of solidarity.

>and results in nerdy Lesson posts in search of solidarity.

i would've brushed the whole deal off before even logging on.


but that's just me.


I'd have also played them songs they might have heard then and there. Not sure if you did that or not.

>For example, though I love PE, I don't love NWA, simply for
>aesthetic reasons. But I surely appreciate NWA and what they
>accomplished both musically and culturally.

I mean its not like I'm talking about an obsure act or anything here man

If I talk to you about jazz and you tell me you are like super into jazz and right after that I start talking about Coltrane and you are like........John Coltrane!? Who is that?! Thats just weird imo

I didn't even say they had to be a fan....at least know who they are

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

>Hip-Hop isn't one dimensional...why does fandom need to be?

expecting people who are huge hip hop fans to know about arguably one of the most important hip hop groups in the genre's history........is one dimensional now?

I don't think so man

Its Public Enemy....not Company Flow or some shit(I love Co-Flow for the record)

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

i re-read your post after and realized it was knee-jerk but it is how i feel about nerds and their qualifiers so it stands

most of the people that frequent here are "music nerds" weather they want to admit it or not

but does one really have to be a "hip hop nerd" to know who public enemy is? nah

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

and like 15 said, they should be taught. Just play a few tracks. A 'SMH...kids these days"-type response doesn't help the cause.

youth wasted on the young
i can't wait til you're older
what goes around comes around
</cliches>

real talk... i don't be posting these wordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswords for you to try to sum it all up in dismissive cliche's.

lol i'm just fucking with you though.
you'll be me one day. lol!!



shit that was a cliche.

________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

-------------------------
�The other dude after me didn�t help my case. It was just like�crazy nigga factory going on.�
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. �I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,� he says. �Never did.�-- Andre B

reply #54


good day to you sir.

the lesson here isn't "WAH THESE KIDS TODAY ARE TERRIBLE IDIOTS WAH," it's that some artists we loved just don't have the strongest legacy (for any numbers of reasons).

people aren't going to learn if we dont teach.
we just assume this great powerful culture is gonna trickle down.

why you think im hell bent on giving babies ipods for their cribs?

if that ipod stays intact BlueIvy's music knowledge should be genius level by 12.

but yeah yo....WE gotta teach.

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

>people aren't going to learn if we dont teach.

True enough.

but 25? How the hell could a 25 year old never hear PE? I'm 26 and I remember PE. That is just hard to believe.

PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

>but 25? How the hell could a 25 year old never hear PE? I'm
>26 and I remember PE. That is just hard to believe.

^^agreed.

http://pjwoods.tumblr.com/

About the only rapper they'll know from that era is Will Smith, and that's because he was on a sitcom in the 1990s.

They _may_ know Run as Diggy's pops. And Flav as the guy on VH1.

But it's been years and years since I've heard Public Enemy played "out in the world".

Ask them if they've heard of Salt-n-Pepa or Kid-n-Play. You may have better luck.

and this is all down to a relatively newish song, Harder Than You Think, which was used prominently in the C4 2012 Paralympic coverage.
Two aspects of this that I think are interesting are how advertising can open up a whole new generation to an artist, and how a relatively unknown/uncelebrated song within their catalogue had 'hit' potential.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

lol

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

Well my daughter is 10 months and I'm already exposing her to music from my mother's era. So by the time she's old enough, I'll expose her to hip hop. I try to fit it in when there is no cursing, but since she's really young, I'm going to hold off on groups like PE and NWA until she's much older and I can explain the significance of their music.

"We don't make mistakes, we just have happy little accidents" - Bob Ross

"I'm wearing a MSU Tshirt because I went to MSU, you are wearing a UM Tshirt because you went to Walmart!" -unknown.

http://bjsquirrelchronicles.blogspot.com