9. "ive been saying this forever." In response to Reply # 6
if dems did what repubs do to the same (or greater) extent...then that shit would be outlawed tomorrow.
could you imagine if dems gerrmandered ny, cali, illinois, etc? itd be a permanent house majority.
the problem is...repubs (the politicians and voters) are shameless about employing any measure for partisan purposes that make it more likely for them to win elections. and dems moralize and stack new standards on themselves that unilaterally disarm them and actually make it harder for them to win elections.
like dems want fair redistricting commissions/laws, campaign finance restrictions, truthful campaign ads, etc but theyre the only side that holds their politicians/candidates to those standards (before they even gain power). its the morally right thing to do...but it also handcuffs you when youre running against a party that has no problem drawing districts that guarantee their wins, accepting unfettered money from any source possible, saying anything regardless of if its even close to the truth, etc.
12. "i was hesitant before but yeah time to play by their rules" In response to Reply # 9
be strategic with it i guess. there may be some issues where it would not be good for dems to do the same but in things that would force the gop to act to ban such things then go all out.
stravinskian Member since Feb 24th 2003 12698 posts
Thu Jun-27-19 11:59 AM
11. "Oh, don't think we're not." In response to Reply # 6
>be proportionally shameful in redistricting where they can.
The reason Dems are more concerned about it these days is that the Republicans hold so much of the state-level power. And the related fact Democrats are more concentrated to a small number of states.
But there are blatant examples of gerrymandering in Dems' favor in California, NY State, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts.
The Republicans will always get more out of it, though, because they'll always control more states.
27. "But, they're not ..." In response to Reply # 11
I mean, Dems definitely gerrymander also, but they're neither as shameless nor as sophisticated. And certainly the republicans have more options (states), but the tech they've employed (redrawing software like Maptitude, although I bet dems used it too) is better, the campaign strategies they ran in advance with their eyes on gerrymandering were dirtier (operation REDMAP in 2010), and the financing of their efforts is stronger (thanks, Citizens United).
I could be wrong, but California and Pennsylvania also seem like bad examples, since California has had a redistricting commission since the Governator and PA just had their Supreme Court overrule Republican gerrymanders last year. Those states seem to lean blue now off social geographic sorting.
Dems have done some dirty politics gerrymanders; Repubs are on some espionage-level shit with it.
3. "prez, senate, house. we gotta take them all in 2020." In response to Reply # 0
then pass the hr1 election reform bill that mcconnell is refusing to bring up in the senate. it outlaws gerrymandering along with other necessary measures to ensure fair elections.
i dont wanna hear shit about anyone not voting democrat across the board in 2020. idgaf who the candidate is. you sit out that election...you lose your political power for *decades*.
state legislatures and judgeships are obviously key too. but when we turnout to vote at the top level...those lower dominoes tend to fall in place.
Political power was lost in 2000 when Dems did nothing after Bush purged voter rolls and now Pelosi will not impeach Trump as they get mad at the base over talk about reparations.
23. "only 30% of americans support reparations." In response to Reply # 8
its def some progressive/black bubble shit.
and the overwhelming majority of black voters live in either the south (where their votes are near meaningless) or packed into a handful of states that only get 2 senate seats a piece.
running on that is a good way to cough up every moderate district and white majority state outside the northeast and west coast. say goodbye to the rust belt and any chance of dems turning georgia and the sun belt blue.
theres a reason why people like ann coulter are pushing dems to get behind reparations.
shit the only thing keeping democrats afloat and competitive nationally now is running on broadly popular policies and *that* hasnt even worked out that well.
if i was a senate candidate who had to win an entire state...id tell niggas to chill on that shit too.
30. "54% of whites say black people who can’t get ahead are " In response to Reply # 23
mostly responsible for their own condition than racial discrimination.
No surprise a majority of "Americans" would come out against reparations.
>its def some progressive/black bubble shit. >
Only to a white racist or Ruckus.
>and the overwhelming majority of black voters live in either >the south (where their votes are near meaningless) or packed >into a handful of states that only get 2 senate seats a >piece. >
Can't wait on a overwhelming majority of black voters in this country to get things accomplished.
>running on that is a good way to cough up every moderate >district and white majority state outside the northeast and >west coast. say goodbye to the rust belt and any chance of >dems turning georgia and the sun belt blue. >
You mean the rust belt that voted for Trump and Georgia that went for the white governor. Dems might lose them if they talk about reparations.
>theres a reason why people like ann coulter are pushing Dems >to get behind reparations. >
Good let Coulter push some more and use her words against Republicans the way they use Cruz and Candance against Democrats.
>shit the only thing keeping democrats afloat and competitive >nationally now is running on broadly popular policies and >*that* hasn't even worked out that well. >
That, Black women and others putting in work. It probably would work out better if the Dem leaders stopped working against the base.
>if i was a senate candidate who had to win an entire >state...id tell niggas to chill on that shit too.
The temporary fix is a road to nowhere, sacrificing the base isn't worth it.
32. "It's become increasingly clear that 2000 was THE big election" In response to Reply # 8 Thu Jun-27-19 03:56 PM by Marauder21
for most of our lifetimes.
And who knows, maybe if 9/11 happens with Gore in the White House, he gets all of the blame that escaped W, because we know we weren't going to have a big bipartisan Congressional God Bless America singalong with a Democrat in the White House. Could've led to President Cheney in 2004 or whatever.
But I don't think Gore ever invades Iraq. I don't think the "war on terror" reaches anywhere near the same level. No Roberts on the Supreme Court (who knows if O'Connor ever steps down, though.) Another 4 years (at least) of picking judges. Someone who actually acknowledged the threat of climate change.
That was it.
------
12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx
>for most of our lifetimes. > >And who knows, maybe if 9/11 happens with Gore in the White >House, he gets all of the blame that escaped W, because we >know we weren't going to have a big bipartisan Congressional >God Bless America singalong with a Democrat in the White >House. Could've led to President Cheney in 2004 or whatever. > >But I don't think Gore ever invades Iraq. I don't think the >"war on terror" reaches anywhere near the same level. No >Roberts on the Supreme Court (who knows if O'Connor ever steps >down, though.) Another 4 years (at least) of picking judges. >Someone who actually acknowledged the threat of climate >change. > >That was it.
37. "I really think every election matters" In response to Reply # 32
If we learned anything from the Obama years and the aftermath, it's that conservatives will ruin things any chance they get. And I can't imagine a universe in which Gore would have won reelection.
2004 was damn close (closer in electoral terms than 2016), and Kerry would have had the same opportunity to replace O'Connor and Rehnquist.
"In a stinging rebuttal, Justice Elena Kagan wrote: "For the first time ever, this court refuses to remedy a constitutional violation because it thinks the task beyond judicial capabilities."
"In giving such gerrymanders a pass from judicial review, the majority goes tragically wrong," she added."
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79825 posts
Thu Jun-27-19 11:52 AM
7. "When they go low... FOH" In response to Reply # 0
Time to get dirty
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
15. "i wish. we got a soft ass party now tho." In response to Reply # 7
part of the reason dems controlled the house for 50 years straight is because some nasty ass foot soldiers willing to do the dirty work to gain/retain power.
people like bill clinton were surrounded by killers and calculators who waged pr wars against repubs, investigators, right wing press, etc.
now we got people who will abandon you if you arent a pristine social progressive or you took some money guy whose father is a lawyer for a wall street or fossil fuel corp.
on top of all of the structural disadvantages being piled on us...its hard to win when you constantly tilt the balance of power/viability against yourself too.
29. "YUP! I truly believe they were more worried about being thought of as..." In response to Reply # 7
>RE: When they go low... FOH
the ANGRY Black folks who inhabited the White House than they were with being ANGRY Black folks who turned the White House out.
Oh well... No mulligans!
Sadly, they were good for helping others realize their potential and inspiring people to be their very best. Otherwise, I am not certain that 8 years will be remembered for more than that.
18. "This is why the whole acceleration argument in 2016 was so maddening" In response to Reply # 17
The idea that after Trump, we'll elect a bunch of progressives to push through great legislation that benefits everyone never took the courts into account. It's going to be an uphill battle just getting people elected thanks to this shit.
------
12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx
20. "not to mention packed conservative majority courts " In response to Reply # 18
can just invalidate major parts (or whole laws) that dems/progressives enact (the same way they are doing to the voting rights act, civil rights act, etc).
19. "This feels similar to Citizens United to me (maybe worse)" In response to Reply # 0
it's one of those things we all realize is terrible and will have a horrible impact on our country moving forward, but it's really hard to imagine how terrible the impact will end up being. You get an idea from the dissenting opinion on this one though.
In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king. -Hunter S. Thompson
this is about the elections themselves. the supreme court basically greenlighted pre-determined election outcomes. politicians can pick their voters, not the other way around.
28. "yep. without Citizens United, the $ isn't there " In response to Reply # 25
to bankroll this mess in the first place. lotta folks really don't appreciate HOW sophisticated the GOP gerrymander effort was, and how it starts with the campaigns to guarantee that GOP would be able to dominate a far more sophisticated gerrymandering game after 2010.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
31. "RE: "Supreme" Court: Cheating is Cool w/us (link)" In response to Reply # 0
This really sucks. From national to local levels. I am still consistently voting 'D' because 'R' is too bat shit crazy...but hope for fairness and justice is really slipping away.
Printer-friendly copy 
Email this topic to a friend
General Discussion
