As HBCU's continue to struggle I imagine a hypothetical scenario of HBCUs breaking from the NCAA as a strategy to attract greater athletic talents, to increase school notoriety and public interest, in an effort to expand general enrollment and wider alumni participation.

With HS players like RJ Hampton, smartly opting-out of an NCAA path to the pros, for NCAA financial restrictions, and Randolph Ross heading to A&T instead of a power 5 to run track, because "HBCUs matter", why couldnt HBCU's use the current climate of attitudes to do their own thing...athletically.

If MEAC and SWAC schools, in unison, all decided to leave the NCAA for a newly formed athletic association which allowed for players to revenue share, or at least collect from their own individual endorsements, couldn't they then be able to attract top talent?
On top of that, with that top talent, wouldn't networks fight to air those games? There are about 10 Black owned TV stations right now: Weather Channel, TV One, Bounce TV, ASPiRE TV, Revolt TV, OWN,The Impact Network, Soul of the South Network, BOP TV streaming, &
The Dream Network. None show sports, would this not be a way to turn those networks into ratings growing television powerhouses?

I don't know, I'm trying to think this out better. Tell me where my idea is faulty.

>If MEAC and SWAC schools, in unison, all decided to leave the
>NCAA for a newly formed athletic association which allowed for
>players to revenue share, or at least collect from their own
>individual endorsements, couldn't they then be able to attract
>top talent?

The move from viewing student-athletes as free labor to employees tracks for me here, but most colleges don't treat their employees particularly well either. Getting recruits to accept a new model for financial success when they (correctly or not) probably requires giving them as big a bit of the apple as possible. But smaller conference schools like you're outlining won't be able to dangle that without having the TV deals that you mention *first* and those might not really be on offer without the talent.

It feels like the sort of thing that would have to start with NCAA athletes acting collectively with each other, not with their schools. And that would probably be most effective if it started with the athletes with the most current power - guys in money-making programs playing money-making sports.

An SEC football strike, for instance, would move the ball more effectively in my view.

But I could be wrong too. I'm just thinking out loud here, and I really like what you've done.

edit: I guess my response here means I think most TV networks make their decisions pretty conservatively and would prefer to minimize risk. But maybe I'm wrong about that. It would only take one good bid to move something. Maybe. I just still think labor is the key here.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

But the NCAA legally does not allow for their athletes to unionize, so a player strike would be a lot more difficult to accomplish vs. getting the 22 SWAC & MEAC schools to get on board.

I love the idea, and I think it's worth noting that one thing that helps is the amount of HBCU's that are in, like, real places. Imagine your planning working and having a football team playing at Howard that's worthy of national attention? A track championship for all the teams involved in this going down in Raleigh?

I realize there are other, huge benefits to traditional NCAA fame. But the above sounds way better to me as a (hypothetical) talented 18 year old than spending a moment my life in Tuscaloosa.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

elsewhere. Allow a player to play in Europe in the summer and come back and play in college. Allow them to get endorsements and sponsorships if they can. That would be a huge change from the NCAA.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Have you seen the attendance of the average HBCU basketball or football game?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Also, in terms of pay, here's a solution...
https://deadspin.com/this-is-how-to-pay-college-athletes-1823353456
So what is the best plan for paying players? No plan at all. If Kentucky wants to offer basketball recruits $500,000 signing bonuses, fine. If Notre Dame doesn’t want to offer football recruits a penny more than their athletic scholarships, that’s also fine. If star quarterbacks can earn money for autographs, Olympic swimmers can get paid to be on cereal boxes, and basketball phenoms can land shoe deals, it’s nobody’s business except theirs and the Internal Revenue Service’s. A sane system would allow everyone—schools and athletes and sponsors alike—to bargain for the best possible deals, sign on the dotted lines, and go from there in accordance with existing tax, labor, and contract laws.

Why would HBCU's be involved? What am I missing?

_______________________________________

HBCU's would be involved as an effort to revive themselves...academically.
Leveraging interest returned to the schools.

Robert Smith's donation to the 2019 Morehouse Men, beyond his charity, the international news coverage of it alone provided what would have been the equivalent of millions in ad spending.

>If MEAC and SWAC schools, in unison, all decided to leave the
>NCAA for a newly formed athletic association which allowed for
>players to revenue share, or at least collect from their own
>individual endorsements, couldn't they then be able to attract
>top talent?

for sure but where is this money coming from?


>On top of that, with that top talent, wouldn't networks fight
>to air those games?

Some top talent
Some will not
if the NBA one and done rule changes...would that effect this model?

Will the NCAA, NJCAA allows these new black school to play their teams?

Since they are not amateurs anymore...would they be elgible to play other college teams?

If they wanted to transfer would they be able to go to other schools besides HBCUs?

TV rights would have to be used to pay players right?

How would that effect their eligibility for the NBA?

Would they get enough competition outside of HBCU's to give scouts a good idea of their skills?

Would this new league allow endorsements?

I think you are better off creating a new semi pro league rather than attaching it to a college...that already the problem

great thought process...but college does not need to be associated with sports...period

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

>for sure but where is this money coming from?

Associations are able to be ran very cleanly and inexpensively. There are plenty of examples. Also, they already have the MEAC and SWAC, combine them and there you go.

>Some top talent
>Some will not
>if the NBA one and done rule changes...would that effect this
>model?

It would be for entire athletics depts, not just basketball, so if a single pro-league's rule did change anything it wouldn't necessarily be consequential.

>Will the NCAA, NJCAA allows these new black school to play
>their teams?

No, the effort is away from the NCAA, playing in their association would be counter in much of the new association's success.

>Since they are not amateurs anymore...would they be eligible to
>play other college teams?
>If they wanted to transfer would they be able to go to other
>schools besides HBCUs?

That's the NCAA's problem to worry about.

>TV rights would have to be used to pay players right?

Schools could do whatever they want with the money, but they also wouldn't be restricted from sharing profit directly with their players...as the NCAA does. NCAA wont even allow players to monetize their large social media pages. Student-Athletes in this new scenario would be able to do that or even sign autographs for pay, as a revenue stream.

>How would that effect their eligibility for the NBA?

Same way players like RJ Hampton playing professionally in New Zealand next year would be affected--it wouldn't.

>Would they get enough competition outside of HBCU's to give
>scouts a good idea of their skills?

Who will RJ Hampton's be in New Zeland?


>Would this new league allow endorsements?
>
>I think you are better off creating a new semi pro league
>rather than attaching it to a college...that already the
>problem
>
>great thought process...but college does not need to be
>associated with sports...period

This idea is not singularly a way make more fare how profit is spent in college athletics, it's to also add value to other Black interests, like HBCU's and Black owned media vehicles.

>
>
>>for sure but where is this money coming from?
>
>Associations are able to be ran very cleanly and
>inexpensively. There are plenty of examples. Also, they
>already have the MEAC and SWAC, combine them and there you go.

MEAC and SWAC are conferences under the NCAA.....
So the plan is to combine MEAC and SWAC leave the NCAA and do it by building there own associations?

>>Some top talent
>>Some will not
>>if the NBA one and done rule changes...would that effect
>this
>>model?
>
>It would be for entire athletics depts, not just basketball,
>so if a single pro-league's rule did change anything it
>wouldn't necessarily be consequential.
>
>>Will the NCAA, NJCAA allows these new black school to play
>>their teams?
>
>No, the effort is away from the NCAA, playing in their
>association would be counter in much of the new association's
>success.

So they will not be able to play the best competition in the States? gotcha

>>Since they are not amateurs anymore...would they be eligible
>to
>>play other college teams?
>>If they wanted to transfer would they be able to go to other
>>schools besides HBCUs?
>
>That's the NCAA's problem to worry about.

That would be for the students to worry about....if their is only one type of transfer portal then that will also dwindle down prospective players from coming
Can I be a player at Morehouse and be a grad transfer that goes to Goergia Tech for my masters? that's very important to a bunch of student athletes more than the NCAA

>>TV rights would have to be used to pay players right?
>
>Schools could do whatever they want with the money, but they
>also wouldn't be restricted from sharing profit directly with
>their players...as the NCAA does. NCAA wont even allow
>players to monetize their large social media pages.
>Student-Athletes in this new scenario would be able to do that
>or even sign autographs for pay, as a revenue stream.
>
>>How would that effect their eligibility for the NBA?
>
>Same way players like RJ Hampton playing professionally in New
>Zealand next year would be affected--it wouldn't.
>
>>Would they get enough competition outside of HBCU's to give
>>scouts a good idea of their skills?
>
>Who will RJ Hampton's be in New Zeland?

No clue

>>Would this new league allow endorsements?
>>
>>I think you are better off creating a new semi pro league
>>rather than attaching it to a college...that already the
>>problem
>>
>>great thought process...but college does not need to be
>>associated with sports...period


>This idea is not singularly a way make more fare how profit is
>spent in college athletics, it's to also add value to other
>Black interests, like HBCU's and Black owned media vehicles.

I understand...so do a stand alone league rather than attaching it to institutions who already struggle with finances as is

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

getting black star players to go to HBCU's is a good idea, but leaving the NCAA would not help that cause.

unproven
you leave the NCAA...that a world in major college athletics we have never seen

you have kids now who play AAU or high school sports in better facilities than most HBCU's
that would be a leap to ask a 17-19 year old kid and his parents to invest in something that has no track record
and I'm not talking about HBCU's...im talking leaving the NCAA to form another association

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

& as competitive athletes, it would be in their nature.

Compared to the not much the NCAA provides student athletes.
Dabo's getting $92MM, while his players are getting, sweat suits and concussed--without long-term health insurance to cover the eventual CTE.

including football
they get a lot...ALOT
should they get paid
yes

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

So what's the point then, in making the distinction, about student athletes getting a lot--compared to non-athlete students--when their coach is being paid $92M?

i responded know the players get alot
do they get what they deserve...no
but they get much more than sweatsuits and concussions
that was the point

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

None-the-less, 10 sweat suits, 5 pairs of Nikes, training table meals during the season, a dorm room, books, extended deadlines for game travel, game day perdiem, and the yearly ACC tournament gift (which they earn each stitch and bite of) vs. Dabo's $92M is...nothing.

The fact also remains that players, certainly the ones who don't advance in sport professionally but including them, suffer with little support from the schools they played hard for. Keeping it Clemson and a program you know about closely...CJ Fuller.

Paying them is not the overall issue, some schools and many sports won't have the ability to. Forbidding them the potential to even make their IG or YouTube pages monetized is, and the crux of what Dabo specifically rails against.
"We try to teach our guys, use football to create the opportunities, take advantage of the platform and the brand and the marketing you have available to you. But as far as paying players, professionalizing college athletics, that's where you lose me. I’ll go do something else, because there's enough entitlement in this world as it is.”

until they graduate or leave college.

Everyone isn’t going pro.

If I’m good enough to sell X amount of jerseys why shouldn’t I make some money before it all ends?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

why would that type of regulation, by a newer/freer athletic association, be needed? wouldn't this part of the draw, of top athletes be that they could spend their summers swimming competitively in Dubai--while still holding on to the prestige of their college league and continuing to work towards a degree that will help extend their career interest?

That could be huge.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

The model would also be a boon for athletes in low revenue sports.

WNBA for example, Brittany Griner at the Phoenix Mercury makes the top of the leagues pay of $100,00K, while in the off-season she plays in Russia earning $1 million per season.

Imagine how these student-athletes could work similarly, taking off/season jobs making real money, even if the pro-leagues (wnba / minor league baseball) that we have here aren't a financially viable.

I imagine graduation rates could likely also increase.

Doesn't seem worth the chance of injury.

I didn't know the pay was so bad in the US and so "good" overseas

_______________________________________

But it's also the same equation young RJ Hampton examined and found to be false, in choosing not to go to Duke in favor of New Zeland.
Also exactly why this spitballed idea seems to me to be a viable thought.

wonder how much sacrifice the early adoptors would be ok with. there's something about playing with the big Bamas, FSUs, etc, that draws these players.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>I don't know, I'm trying to think this out better. Tell me
>where my idea is faulty.

off top, some questions to answer:

how much do HBCUs make from the NCAA currently?

how are you gonna finance this (seed money) until it becomes viable?

there would need to be SERIOUS upgrades to the facilities (and staffs) to make this work. How would you attract better coaches, trainers, etc?

you would also need to negotiate with the equipment, shoe, and apparel companies to provide the same "alternate" streams for hard resources

>how much do HBCUs make from the NCAA currently?
The only financial advantage HBCUs have being in the NCAA is licensing deals. Those money games they go play against a big school early in the season where they get beat up and the opponent's new starting freshman get the jitters out and confidence. Those rare occasions a school advances to a round during March Madness. BET stopped airing their games nationally when Viacom took over, so any TV revenue they get now is local or an ESPN one off.

>how are you gonna finance this (seed money) until it becomes
>viable?
The programs are essentially self financed as it is. Many associations make their big paydays from conferences and events. So, a pay per ticket/exhibitor annual conference, including all the direct and peripheral college athletics industries and businesses, perhaps even a jobfair where corps recruit student athletes could be held to finance the association itself.

>there would need to be SERIOUS upgrades to the facilities (and
>staffs) to make this work. How would you attract better
>coaches, trainers, etc?
As soon as TV contracts pay out, they'd be flush with cash to pay for upgrades.

>you would also need to negotiate with the equipment, shoe, and
>apparel companies to provide the same "alternate" streams for
>hard resources
They could still do licencing deals, based on any of the models already in place.

Honestly, the only sports that I know black people like to watch are basketball and football.

And whenever I attend games, we are in the minority. I went to an HBCU and a AACC school.

The linchpin is that white people watch and pay, black people play.

When was the last time, you paid for all members of your family to attend a sports event? In our family, never. It just isn't that much fun unless we know someone on the team.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

& Black folk watch sports.

When I went to Tennessee we used to get extra tickets from students who had no interest in football games.

White families would have RV’s and make it a vacation weekend and pay top dollar for tickets.

We prolly made more money scalping tickets than most players on game day. They definitely are better than us and had Sega Genesis’ in all their dorm rooms. Guys like Chuck Smirh got paid but the average player ain’t get shit

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

to ALL the sports lol...

If I ever need a ticket to a Nats game....I literally just have to walk next door or across the street and ask one of the neighbors .

25K per seat.

Crazy. I guess if it’s used for business it works but shit man... that’s a lot of money.

I don’t even see how folks can go to more than 10 games a season. If you split it with a few people it makes sense.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

folks in my neighborhood though?!?...
nope, season tix are just a normal annual expense for them...like internet access, electricity, etc.

And they have them for ALL the local teams.
Nats, Skins, Caps, Bulle...err....Wizards, Mystics, United


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

reselling the games I didn't want to/couldn't go to basically paid for a good chunk of my personal costs.

Look at the MLS. I go to DC United games, it might be totally empty, except for the ultra supporter section, and those fans are up waving flags and beating a drum, to a partial go-go beat, for the games entirety.
Many of those teams are like that--it's how fan bases grow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovv2yzLR-0Y

In Seattle, the Sounders outsell their shared stadium, better than the Seahawks.

But they don’t.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

https://deadspin.com/the-rays-drew-their-smallest-crowd-ever-1835088699

about the best you can hope for is allow players to make money off their own likenesses

and make scholarships guaranteed for 4 years. still make it year to year as far as roster purposes so coaches can do their little finesse thing. but the kids should know going in they don't have to worry about getting taken off scholarship.

other than that college athletes have it pretty good from my experience being around them in school and as part of my job.

<--- Big Baller World Order

I think what a lot of people miss, when making the claim that college athletes have it good, typically with a tone of jealousy, is the amount of mandated time those athletes are required to spend WORKING on their sport, beyond just game time.
I'm talking beyond just revenue sports, changes would benefit more than just them.