"This abortion debate is simple. If you don't have ovaries you don't have a say. This is a pure women's rights issue. At what point do we honestly draw the line between state and church? Let the women of our nation decide what they decide for THEIR bodies."
There are so many parts of this argument I disagree with despite being pro-choice. 1.) Men shouldn't be part of the discussion (though we make up half the voting population 2.) its not only a religious issue and 3.) the idea that it's only up to the women and their body leaves out the fact that it's not that simple because at some point, and it's worth debating when that point is, there is another life involved.
By this reasoning there should be no limitation on abortion and a woman can terminate a pregnancy at 36 weeks for no reason...just because. Now we know that rarely happens but since we know that rarely happens, why fight for that right?
What's crazy is that the vast majority are on the same page with regards to abortion, most people think abortion should be safe, legal and rare. And yet, the discussion is being driven by people on the right and the most prominent people pushing back on it make arguments like this.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
2. "Here's a simple view. but still true." In response to Reply # 1 Wed May-22-19 10:22 AM by Case_One
We have seatbelt laws that are ment to save lives. The option to wear a seatbelt use to be a choice for Free Thinking, Free Will Adults.
But after so many Free Thinking, Free Will Adults were being killed in automobile accidents, states decided that measures needed to be taken to help prevent Free Thinking, Free Will Adults from being killed. And States passed laws mandating that Free Thinking, Free Will Adults wear/use a seatbelt while operating any kind of automobile.
It was the States that decided that it was unlawful for Free Thinking, Free Will Adults to decide for themselves if they wanted to choose to wear a device that could prevent them from being killed.
The CHOICE to regulate ones one body as a Free Thinking, Free Will Adults was taken away by State Laws that are intended to keep Free Thinking, Free Will Adults from killing themselves and no one is up in arms ready to fight the state for taking away that right.
. .
“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ
That said, I agree -- this is a black and white issue. No one should be legislating what a woman does with her body, or her life.
>The fact is you need to bypass all of the cloudy nuances and >get to the core issue. It's called Root Cause Analysis. DO YOU >KNOW IT? > > >. >. > >“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted >me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee >Strobel, The Case for Christ
49. "RE: "cloudy nuances"" In response to Reply # 36
>Heh. You made a funny. > >That said, I agree -- this is a black and white issue. No one >should be legislating what a woman does with her body, or her >life. >
So there are laws against prostitution that legislating what a woman does with her body. Do you think these laws are valid?
>>The fact is you need to bypass all of the cloudy nuances and >>get to the core issue. It's called Root Cause Analysis. DO >YOU >>KNOW IT? >> >> >>. >>. >> >>“It was the evidence from science and history that >prompted >>me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee >>Strobel, The Case for Christ >
. .
“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ
23. "No, it actually is that simple." In response to Reply # 11
Cut to the chase. Cut out the personal emotional stories. Deal with the bottom line facts.
It's all about the right to choose who can tell someone what to do with their body. It's not about situations, economics, victim issues, or human right of murdered babies. It's about people protesting the state when it comes to the will of someone that wants to manage their human right to choose how they live.
. .
“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ
12. "Here's a simple view. but still true." In response to Reply # 2
Eve was a black woman who obviously didn't care about black women. Had she just listened to her man and made him a plate instead of eating from the tree of knowledge, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
22. "Even more simply put. We regulate men and women's body's all the time. " In response to Reply # 2
I get that but the counter-argument is that it seems inappropriate for men to regulate women's bodies. Predeomoinately male legislatures deciding what women can do with their body is the Handsmaid Tales aspect of all of this. I'd be piss if the issue of police brutality, for example, was only decided by white folks.
In fact, we are seeing in this debate that men don't appear to know enough about women's bodys when they discuss this topic because a lot of dudes don't even know that a woman can be six weeks pregnant and not they they are pregnant.
The fact of the matter though, if this topic were only put up to women decide, you will still see heavy debate around it.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
25. "It's about Human Sovereignty and this is the hot button" In response to Reply # 22
>I get that but the counter-argument is that it seems >inappropriate for men to regulate women's bodies. >Predeomoinately male legislatures deciding what women can do >with their body is the Handsmaid Tales aspect of all of this. >I'd be piss if the issue of police brutality, for example, was >only decided by white folks. >
**One is a human rights issue and the other is a right for humans that are deemed to have NO rights - babies.
>In fact, we are seeing in this debate that men don't appear to >know enough about women's bodys when they discuss this topic >because a lot of dudes don't even know that a woman can be six >weeks pregnant and not they they are pregnant. >
**But this isn't a gender issue because there are just as many or even more women marching in the streets in support of the Pro-Life cause.
>The fact of the matter though, if this topic were only put up >to women decide, you will still see heavy debate around it.
3. "There is time for a discussion on it but the final choice is not..." In response to Reply # 1 Wed May-22-19 10:31 AM by Creole
>there is another life involved.
ours to make.
In the end, it's a woman who is going to make the decision despite what proclamations we make (about being the best dad ever) or desires we have to be a father.
I've encountered women who, allegedly, have had more than the legal amount of abortions. To me, they were using it as form of birth control.
I've also encountered women who have had one or two and chose to do so because they didn't want to be with the father nor did they want to be a parent again at that particular time. My silent question was and still is... Well, why did you let Buddy go raw dog then?
I don't ask the question because it ain't my business to. It is my business to respect their choice(s) regardless of how I feel about it or how I would have handled it.
We give up decision-making authority once we've ejaculated. We may still have input n the decision but the final one is not ours to make. Hence, why we have no real say in this matter other than to help protect the rights of our daughters, nieces, cousins, friends, etc.
13. "the other life I was talking about is the baby, not the dad. " In response to Reply # 3
I think the quote ignores is that at some point, not six weeks but certainly by 30 weeks, there is another life, the life of a baby, that should be taken into consideration.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
71. "Because if you get to 32 weeks and the child can’t survive" In response to Reply # 61
You should have access to an abortion Or if during the last trimester it’s either the baby or the mom, the mom should be able to make that choice And restrictions lead to delays and delays lead to death.
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
5. "Not my body not my choice" In response to Reply # 1
And I’ve run the gamut From being the other person listening to a partner make her choice To taking care of a friend after hers To having family member have one To being told about friends having one To another friend telling me about hers
And there are so many more close stories that I’m not privy to It’s no more my say on the matter than breast augmentation, hysterectomies, or mammograms ... not my choice, my opinion, unless asked, is irrelevant.
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
6. "there's one reason why it's problematic:" In response to Reply # 1
>https://twitter.com/RealKevinNash/status/1130745351617560576 > >"This abortion debate is simple. If you don't have ovaries you >don't have a say. This is a pure women's rights issue. At what >point do we honestly draw the line between state and church? >Let the women of our nation decide what they decide for THEIR >bodies."
in Alabama, the person who authored the bill, as well as the governor that signed it into law were white women.
women are perfectly capable of being as dogmatic, draconian and evil as men when it comes to measures like this. even when women are the ones who are going to suffer.
7. "i find it hard to debate extremely rare hypotheticals" In response to Reply # 1
when there is an actual law being proposed to prevent abortions after the woman knows she is pregnant.
the decision about when it is too late to get an abortion should be a medical decision that a dr discusses with a woman. lets get there then we can figure out what exceptions there should be to it. maybe.
women should be driving this debate and laws. men can have some input but were completely backwards right now.
doc brings up a good point as always but we shouldnt let one or two women push us away from moves in the logical direction.
10. "agree, this should be more a medical or safety issue." In response to Reply # 7
trying to do it based on morality or religion isn't constructive. morality and religious interpretations are both very fluid. neither can help the woman if she's dealing with an unwanted pregnancy.
14. "It’s both. Solely medical avoids body autonomy. " In response to Reply # 10
It’s a choice. Does that feel ok? Personally not really. I’m not fully comfortable with someone just making a choice like that. But that’s my discomfort.
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
31. "I mean the laws should be more so medical/safety based." In response to Reply # 14 Wed May-22-19 02:35 PM by tariqhu
but since its such a personal choice, the women can base their decisions on whatever they feel. the laws shouldn't tell them not to based on the slippery slope of morality.
37. "Agreed. I’m talking more about the conversation" In response to Reply # 31
People trying to be too cute by half going only the medical route It’s ok to be uncomfortable with a thought It’s ok to vocalize discomfort It’s also ok to recognize it’s not your issue.
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
17. "You are right. But pro-choice people are hurting their position with hy..." In response to Reply # 7
That is, the position that a women should have a right to decide when to terminate a pregnancy without limitation, is a hypothetical in and of itself. It's a hypothetical that supposes that a woman should be able to have an abortion at 36 weeks just because and that seems wrong to almost ALL people.
>when there is an actual law being proposed to prevent >abortions after the woman knows she is pregnant. > >the decision about when it is too late to get an abortion >should be a medical decision that a dr discusses with a woman. >lets get there then we can figure out what exceptions there >should be to it. maybe. > >women should be driving this debate and laws. men can have >some input but were completely backwards right now. > >doc brings up a good point as always but we shouldnt let one >or two women push us away from moves in the logical >direction.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Wed May-22-19 01:30 PM
19. "A coworker was just kicked out of the convention we are attending" In response to Reply # 0
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
i've seen some shit at conventions. married coworkers getting drunk and grabbing ass at the sales meetings. fist fights, loud and wrong arguments, table dancing in the hotel restaurant.
next one is in san diego and I cannot not wait. a titty is bound to pop out at some point, lol.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Wed May-22-19 02:22 PM
34. "You pretty much hit the nail on the head" In response to Reply # 20
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Wed May-22-19 05:39 PM
52. "He claims he complained about how wild things were getting" In response to Reply # 45
at this convention so they suspended his membership
but there has to be more to it.
and why didn’t he tell us all this before the event.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Thu May-23-19 08:09 AM
60. "Our boss investigated and I think our guy is legit" In response to Reply # 52
apparently he complained about a senior official who got to drunk...
and the official was t happy about it.
Sucks because he was our connect and he had a lot of friends here
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Thu May-23-19 11:37 AM
72. "We had no idea what he was kicked out for" In response to Reply # 62
it was as soon as he got here.
Some stuff that happened years ago before he was with us.
But it was over how wild people were acting at conventions.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
67. "Well he should have options to fight the retaliation " In response to Reply # 60
And if they won't support him, he can take his cause to the Powers that support Social Media. Put the executive, the convention, the companies on blast. About 30 tweets and 30 FB post will get things started in the right direction
. .
“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ
We had a client convention in Chicago last Summer and one of my clients wanted to keep drinking after our boat cruise. He begs one of the sales guys to take him to a strip club.
They basically had to pry the guy out of there. We still have meetings the next day and this guy comes in late as hell doing the walk of shame wearing the same clothes. He looked like the butt end of a cigarette.
40. "Black emo music is the worst kind of pretentious " In response to Reply # 0
“And everyone I know is listening to Skrillex and Waka Flocka Flame In fact the only records they actually own are Mumford & Sons, Odd Future, and Lil Wayne They’re rather blow their money in Westport on molly and weed Than go see a movie or go to the aquarium with me And I just-”
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
I was accused of being a "stupid emo kid who thinks nobody gets them," subliminally, on Facebook, 15-ish years ago in college, but I know I wasn't this insufferable.
OMG.
-- "Music is not to be possessed; it's to be shared.” - James Mtume
"Just stay loose, keep it raw, and bang ya drums out sometimes." - Madlib
55. "some of yall are the worst" In response to Reply # 0
this very post only reaffirms my thoughts of being here less and less If I wanted to vent and talk about my life freely, it would be used to attack the posts and opinions are worse than ever. I'll be around here and there but I finally really understand why some people left and never looked back
58. "what in the world? " In response to Reply # 55
>this very post only reaffirms my thoughts of being here less >and less >If I wanted to vent and talk about my life freely, it would be >used to attack >the posts and opinions are worse than ever. I'll be around >here and there but I finally really understand why some people >left and never looked back >
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
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