"Arguing with someone who is always right/ always wants to win. "
I've found myself getting to disagreements with people in real life who 1.) Are always think they are right and/or 2.) sole goal is to win the argument.
maybe 1 and 2 are the same thing (is it?) but I feel like 1.) is a lot more easily identifiable, at least those types of people, but 2 isn't acknowledged so much as a bad thing. That is, what's wrong with always trying to win an argument?
The problem with 2 is that if your only goal is to win the argument, even if you win you don't necessarily gain an understanding of the other person's point of view or their underlying issue.
This is something I've only become more aware of as an issue because I have been in therapy and I am learning techniques to get to underlying issues I have with people. Having these techniques are great but it sucks to try and have a discussion with people who don't have these techniques and they aren't having the same conversation as you are having with them...cuz they too busy trying to be right and win the argument.
Anyway, does anyone have any idea of what I am talking about?
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79612 posts
Tue Apr-16-19 10:22 AM
5. "Online sure.. in real life? " In response to Reply # 0
In real life I don’t think I could hang out around those type of people for more than a few.
Barber shops and hood bar conversations are fun tho.
I think if you run into this a lot irl it’s because you like to argue.. lol.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
10. "The issue is when you don't have a choice and have to work with them" In response to Reply # 5
Happens often in the corporate world - you have a management meeting trying to make decisions on a topic, but there's often one or more people in there arguing and grandstanding and caring more about proving that they are right than the overall goals of the team or the project.
17. "Can you nod in agreement, then go and do what you want?" In response to Reply # 10
I try not to get into debates in meetings. I'll communicate the basics and then go do what I need to do (I'm a programmer). I learned the hard way not to try and talk shop with the plebeians. The conversation usually went like this:
Me: I'm going to implement the solution using X. Them: What is "X?" Me: X is a technology stack based on A, B & C Them: Ok, What is "A" and "C?" Me: "A" is the HTTP server, "C" is the database Them: What's an HTTP server, and how is that different from Wordpress? Me: https://media.tenor.com/images/d602c0a1a58972129baa9de10dee11a5/tenor.gif
18. "LMAO. Sounds like a DISCUSSION or Q&A with a BA, SA, or BSA. " In response to Reply # 17 Tue Apr-16-19 11:16 AM by Creole
>I try not to get into debates in meetings. I'll communicate >the basics and then go do what I need to do (I'm a >programmer). I learned the hard way not to try and talk shop >with the plebeians. The conversation usually went like this: > >Me: I'm going to implement the solution using X. >Them: What is "X?" >Me: X is a technology stack based on A, B & C >Them: Ok, What is "A" and "C?" >Me: "A" is the HTTP server, "C" is the database >Them: What's an HTTP server, and how is that different from >Wordpress? >Me: >https://media.tenor.com/images/d602c0a1a58972129baa9de10dee11a5/tenor.gif
21. "Not Q&A. I can See the BSA because the need to do the documentation " In response to Reply # 18
But as a PM I ask a ton of questions if the planning and the release goals are not clear.
. . “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein
"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins
24. "ROTFL... My Dude.. My Bad... LOL" In response to Reply # 22
>>BSA because the need to do the documentation > >between DEV and the business, who have to explain this to the >business to get buy-in on said solution. > >Ain't nobody out here just tryna write documentation, B. > >Get your tech writers for that. LOL
Fair point. One of my teams has a BSA he never talks in the meeting. My other team doesn't have a BSA so the Prod Mgr and Prod Owner are the got to cats.
. . “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein
"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins
25. "You can sometimes, but not when you're in a decision making meeting." In response to Reply # 17
If a meeting is informational (not a fan of those anyways, because usually it could have just been an email) and someone tries to derail it trying to prove they are right, then whoever is facilitating the meeting can just move on with the standard "let's talk about your concerns offline" comment.
But if it's a management meeting which is more tactical, typically decisions are getting made IN the meeting, it's much more difficult to just pivot away and keep it moving. There's also more of a fine line in this case between advocating for your point of view in a constructive way vs. arguing to prove you are right.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
12. "As I get older I lean more to "Let them "win"." In response to Reply # 6
In the end, I need to manage my stress so that I can live to see my grandkids one day.
. . “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein
"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins
4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes.
"In short, in negligible issues we should just ignore fools, but in issues that matter, they must be dealt with so that credence will not be given to what they say."
Choose one but choose correctly for that specific instance.
8. "RE: Arguing with someone who is always right/ always wants to win. " In response to Reply # 0
As I get older, #2 irks me more and more. In fact, I find those that argue in that manner usually have some weaker morals. And I find that, in the most evil of individuals it is a extremely common trait.
9. "#2 leads many to underhanded tactics in order to "win"" In response to Reply # 0 Tue Apr-16-19 10:48 AM by flipnile
The personal insults, moving goalposts, sarcasm, snark, running away, etc. It's obvious because things *always* become personal and emotional with them, even when trying to debate the most logical of topics.
#1 people stray into cognitive dissonance when the "being right" conflicts with how things really are in the world. These are the "agenda" folks.
Trying to prove oneself right or wrong, or to prove or disprove someone else's theories isn't bad. What's bad are the people are intellectually dishonest and use shady tactics including the ones I listed above. The types that can't see past the messenger, for example. If Trump said "the sky is blue" they'd have a problem because Trump said it, not because it's wrong but they won't directly admit this. Clear logical errors.
Anyway, from looking at posts on this site over the years I'd estimate that the majority of posters are emotional reasoners and have no concept of any sort of structured debate, only figurative screaming matches where whoever "plays" the other person more wins.
In real life, it's easy to call out that shady shit and put those folks on the spot, so they rarely try that nonsense (around me, at least).
11. "Old school co-sign..." In response to Reply # 9
>Anyway, from looking at posts on this site over the years I'd >estimate that the majority of posters are emotional reasoners >and have no concept of any sort of structured debate, only >figurative screaming matches where whoever "plays" the other >person more wins.
13. "Some folks have already been where they are going - " In response to Reply # 0
so you have to just recognize that not everyone is seeking understanding, community, or trying to build on a topic so that everyone can benefit.
. . “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein
"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins
14. "#2 is why I hate "debate culture" (for lack of a better word)" In response to Reply # 0
The idea that if you "win" a debate, that you've accomplished something bigger. You haven't, you're just alienating the people you were supposedly communicating with.
------
12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx
The genuine goal of any discussion is mutual understanding, even when we agree to disagree. Its not a matter of WHO's right/wrong, but WHAT's right/wrong and what needs to be done to find resolution.
19. "Nah Son, you wrong...." In response to Reply # 16
Just Kidding. You are absolutely right about the damage results of meaningless arguing. Some folks just can't let their ego not be satisfied - even if they are in error. Many people are constantly looking for validation via winning or being right only to find themselves slowly becoming the image being alone.
There is nothing wrong with civil debate but when no one coincides to the facts and the goal is only to be called or identified as the winner.
We have to do better. We have to be willing to seek understanding even if that means we have to change our position.
Too many live on the farm of cognitive dissonance. So yeah, you're right and it is a matter of maturity.
. . “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein
"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins
26. "this works perfectly" In response to Reply # 23 Tue Apr-16-19 01:19 PM by tariqhu
until you put humans into the equation. too many variables and emotions to have this on a consistent basis. even the most logical folks lose it at times.
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