As a person who has experienced some abuse in my lifetime, I get it when it comes to wanting to see some justice or not being reminded of the abuser.


So, with prominent artists going down for past transgressions AND our shifting perspective on societal level, I also get the time we're in where the music of R Kelly is being removed from platforms, the old Cosby shows are being pulled from syndication and Michael Jackson's art and impact is being shelved.

These people are bad and they have done bad things.

But, in response to all of this, I've been thinking to myself, what is the long term plan?

What I mean is....a year from now will we all collectively still not be listening to MJ and Kelly and not watching Cosby reruns?

3 years from will we all collectively still not be listening to MJ and Kelly and not watching Cosby reruns?

5 years from now will we all collectively still not be listening to MJ and Kelly and not watching Cosby reruns?

10 years from now will we all collectively still not be listening to MJ and Kelly and not watching Cosby reruns?


Is the art canceled forever as well? Is that the plan? Or, since this is new territory, we're kind of making it up as we go along?

Is this all really about a massive shift where as a society are learning to separate art from artist?

What about the impact and life changing aspect their art has had for some people? I'm not comparing the two things (positive actions vs. negative actions) but I am legitimately wondering if their bad actions completely erase the good they have done for some people.


The genesis for this post was seeing the headline where the Simpsons will be pulling the episode featuring MJ's voice. Which, I totally get, its not great optics and if they were to take a position of inaction they would be viewed as guilty by association.


And, I guess, with MJ I've been having a hard time with other people having a hard time in the many thinking pieces about coming to terms with how they feel about Michael Jackson after the most recent revelations. Which to me is...strange because its not as if this is all out of the blue. We've had TWENTY SIX YEARS to figure this out (first allegation was in 1993).


Anyway....wtf we gonna do?























alright, I was fighting myself about this last point because its dripping in whataboutism - but why does it seem like we're so SO slow to pick who will be canceled? Like, Woody Allen, Ted Nugent, Steven Tyler, Russel Simmons, Charlie Walk, LA Reid, etc. all have done dirt and their stories have broken but they still keep standing and we still keep supporting - I don't know if its cognitive dissonance or if we are selectively separating art from artist.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

The Simpsons pulling that episode from syndication will probably last as long as the time they pulled the LT Smash and NYC episodes after 9/11 (actually probably shorter, that might have lasted a year or so.) Same with the radio songs in certain countries.

In general, it's probably for the best if we're consuming more art that isn't made by disgusting people and for too long people have been able to get away with anything because they're a "brilliant artist."

I think eventually, people will be able to look at everything in totality. You can still watch and study the films of Alfred Hitchcock, Roman Polanski or Woody Allen, just like most film schools still show Birth of a Nation (the one from the 1900's) because of it's influence on early film-making techniques, while also noting that it's baseless Klan propaganda. It would be tough to study the history of film without seeing something horrible or a movie by someone horrible, because we live in a horrible country in a horrible world! Doesn't erase their positive artistic contributions, but they should be put in context.

Same goes for any other artistic medium.

If anything, we should use this as an opportunity to expand the canon. There's plenty of people who made movies in the 70's that weren't rapists or R&B singers from the 90's that didn't sexually exploit children, put people on to them.

And finally, there's always going to be a recency bias. Whenever something is more recent, whether it's the behavior or just the discourse around it (see the big Twitter dustup a few weeks ago because John Wayne's infamous white supremacist Playboy interview from the 70's was getting shared,) people are going to be more sensitive.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

They're not just taking the MJ episode out of syndication/the FXX app. They're removing it from future pressings of season 3 for retail as well.


My personal take on cancel culture is that it's akin to the NCAA takin wins away from a school after they're found to be cheating the system. I guess on paper the history books won't show that Louisville won March Madness in 2013 but anyone who was alive at that time and watched basketball certainly will remember. I'm not a victim of anything (other than twice being unknowingly dosed with drugs in a public setting, though I had friends around to get me out of the situation both times) and I recognize that relieves me of Kevin Spacey or Michael Jackson reminding me of a bad experience in my life...but I just don't see how Kevin Spacey fondling all those people behind the scenes nullifies the work he did in Seven or Glengarry Glen Ross or whatever.


I too am really curious what the statute of limitations is going to be on both cancellations and how far back people want to go with that stuff, or what crimes are acknowledgeably bad but not cancellable offenses. I've seen some arguments made both facetiously and earnestly that follow the slippery slope all the way down to the bill of rights and the irony that it was written by men who kept slaves - do we throw that out because its creators had unsavory aspects to their lives? Or do what people all through history have done, and learn that people are not infallible and just strive to do better going forward and learn from the dark side of powerful people's lives? The bill of rights part is kind of stupid, but it gets at the thing I'm struggling with that I think people can be elevated and made better by the art - or legislation, or whatever - created by bad people, and it's ultimately a little showy and dramatic to make an attempt at pretending the person/thing never happened.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>I've seen some arguments made
>both facetiously and earnestly that follow the slippery slope
>all the way down to the bill of rights and the irony that it
>was written by men who kept slaves - do we throw that out
>because its creators had unsavory aspects to their lives? Or
>do what people all through history have done, and learn that
>people are not infallible and just strive to do better going
>forward and learn from the dark side of powerful people's
>lives?

FDR is one of the greatest presidents we've ever had and is responsible for most of whatever social safety net we have.
He also threw people in camps based on their ethnicity for entirely political reasons (when his own advisors were telling him it made no difference in security, he said he wanted to keep internment going so as not to lose California in the 44 elections.)

Nobody is saying to throw him away entirely, but let's not paper over all of someone's negatives with the good things. Keep it all in perspective and don't deify anyone. The problem is, people build their entire lives around deifying artists and politicians, so if you say "the guy you admired your entire childhood is bad," they take it to mean that THEY are bad.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

I think in the longterm it would be far smarter to watch this Simpsons episodes with a younger generation and say, "this was one of the more memorable episodes from the beginning of this show's heyday, particularly among children; it also stars a man with a questionable relationship with children and childhood" than just pretend it didn't happen.


Like, when younger generations of people who are getting into music do the internet-era tradition of reading Top 200 lists by year and decade and sales, and they see "Thriller" on every single one of them, is that supposed to come with an asterisk stating "DO NOT LISTEN"?


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

you don't need a michael jackson episode of the simpsons to teach anyone anything.

if you want to watch it, fine, but pretending it's a learning experience is the most bizarre kind of lie possible.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

That wasn't what I said, what I said was that it seems weird to hide from uncomfortable truths rather than confront them. I echo a lot of the thoughts of Wesley Morris and Jenna Wortham's recent Still Processing episode about all this; what is the point of trying to forget how much joy this/these men brought me when they have been all around me for so long? Like Wesley signed off, I think it's better to "when you're running to the dance floor as "Billie Jean" comes on, just remember what you're running to," rather than pretend we can erase history.


Obviously if human history runs another hundred or thousand years MJ will just be some Wikipedia page, but for your and my generations he's very important for both positive and negative reasons. I think "canceling" him negates all of that, and functionally pretends it didn't exist or didn't happen rather than opening up honest conversations about what we did or didn't want to see in him and other powerful men.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

it's a fucking tv episode of a 90s sitcom.

you can watch it anytime you want, you're not a freedom fighter for doing it.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I get what this is now. Let's get to work clearing the world of The Beatles, Gucci Mane, Babe Ruth, Jay-Z, Phil Spector and Ray Charles as well. No new friends, no old tunes.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

that does not make it an "uncomfortable truth."



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

your post is about a larger picture, and where we could be headed, so it's relevant if these things are being applied unevenly.

but I'm not comfortable with any of it. Kelly, Jackson, whoever.

They most-likely haven't thought through their stance more than 1 step in advance. I doubt they'd have a direct answer for you.

I've never advocated "cancelling" something so I can't help there.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>They most-likely haven't thought through their stance more than 1 step
>in advance. I doubt they'd have a direct answer for you.


Of course now it goes to "when did I say that..." et. al.

You'll never get a direct answer from these folks, on anything.



Also, it's not a good idea to follow these folks on anything. Their game isn't about winning, it's about ensuring that others fail.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

FOH, that's so much worse than the strawman you're criticizing.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

It is what it is.

Knowing how these discussion usually go, I guess it's time for a snarky comeback, right?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

otherwise just quit lying.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

I have no problem with people actively trying to bring them to Justice legally

I have an issue if you try to get all their material banned and try to shame people for still listening/watching their material as if you condone and endorse their crimes.


On a long enough time line talent WILL win out and shine through.

Being a good person doesn't equal being a good artist or make people obligated to pay attention to your creative work or give you money for it.

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

...at most when she birthed their first slave child.
Was he ever canceled?

You can Google these things if you want

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

but was the motherfucker ever canceled?
google it.
that's what i thought.
stop!

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

http://bfy.tw/Mf74

Like, what is that supposed to mean?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

why wasn't that your first question then?
here's my answer though...google it.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

MJ, Kellz, Cosby, Woody Allen, Weinstein, etc. They're all criminals. They all deserve what has come to them so far, (at the very least - Woody Allen hasn't suffered anything tangible).

With the non-criminals who get canceled or dragged, there is zero long-term plan to the Cancel Culture that descends upon them. It's only happening because it's an emotional release for those doing the canceling. This is a result of social media and the internet allowing people to connect with complete strangers and therefore allowing ideas, sentiments and national moods to spread from coast to coast in seconds, minutes, hours and days.

<--- Big Baller World Order

Justice is welcomed and necessary for those that hurt others, but the history should remain untouched IMO.

It’s not like Fox has a statue of Michael Jackson’s Simpsons character on public display outside their production offices.

www.twitter.com/seandammit

its so frustrating to have a relevant societal question be posed like 'what to do with good art made by people who have done bad things' be undermined by somebody writing a buzzword in a headline to make it look like a group of people wielding an ideology like a sack of oranges

a couple of 'virtue signalling' buzzwords here and there and shit goes off the rails quickly. (yeah i was being facetious)

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

I kinda like it but it's just about always said by shitbirds. I think it's a real and common thing that I dont always necessarily think is negative. And like a lot of other loaded terms that are used to clown lefties (safe spaces, outrage culture), virtue signaling is not at all exclusive to liberals

but even saying 'virtue signaling' is a form of virtue signaling that you're the type of person who says virtue signaling


>a couple of 'virtue signalling' buzzwords here and there and
>shit goes off the rails quickly. (yeah i was being facetious)

I believe there are stories of him having relationships with underage girls

I don't think that will impact his paintings

As long as people continue to support the Catholic Church, how do we make these decisions on who is cancelled?

Personally, I'm going to continue to separate art and artists.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>As long as people continue to support the Catholic Church, how
>do we make these decisions on who is cancelled?

"Sorry, people still go to church, so I'm going to keep bumping the Ignition remix"

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

there'll be less sharing, more atomizing.
that atomization will somehow be ground into capital.

(see: Spotify and others)

there's probably a really good socialist takedown of all of this shit just the more I think about it

during the era of the first flip camera phones....which is another story.
she'd call and cuss me out, then would dramatically hang up before the second word calmly left my mouth to respond. she'd block/ignore my number so i couldn't call her back...until she missed me.

that approach never worked for long. time heals wounds, people forget, no one is perfect and people eventually deserve forgiveness--especially considering our judeo christian traditions when it comes to repentance.

popularity with Memes or celebrities glorifying the way they'll quickly block anyone they disagree with on social media. or, the method successful pundits, like tucker carelson, use during debates by cutting mics when their argument becomes inferior. or how angela rye will overtalk--using snappy/witty hottakes and declaring 'dumb'--her challengers. Drake's once popular motto of 'no new friends'. perhaps being inundate, throughout the last 10 years or so, with methods of human interaction like those are the reason for the rise.

overcoming disagreements by arriving at a middle ground and coalition building is a far more productive way to make progress.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

so you come here to lash out.
and you often forget to take your meds.
but don't worry...no one in this post can cancel you.

thinking isn't going well for you.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

had to go twice cuz they didn't have it when they said they would, so frustrating.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

you're my fav Mod
the Armond White of GD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em18QlnkCp0

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

https://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/the-cosby-show/tv-listings/100456/
the show was as ubiquitous as law and order, you cant claim that.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

but I hope R. Kelly goes to JAIL JAIL JAIL, PERIODT!


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://Tupreme.com

and we know what that song represents.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

to the point where it's socially unacceptable to support rapists and abusers

that's my understanding of cancel culture

And who has it actually happened to?

Did Asziz Ansari get cancelled?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Because Louis CK doesn't look like Asziz Ansari doesn't look like Matt Lauer doesn't look like R Kelly.

And at what point do you actually take public opinion into the matter?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

we were really jumpy with him

he is an example of not exactly wrong but also not exactly right.



I'd say hes not canceled but that situation really tarnished his image and it potentially dinged the legitimacy of the me too movement...or rather, its not that it dinged the legitimacy but its a high profile example where people who do not believe in the movement will point and say "See! Women be lying" when really...its a complicated thing.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I think of the collective consciousness of the country

so when I say we I'm thinking about what folks are thinking about.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

ain't no we.

show me exactly how you personally overreacted.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

cuz i (and many others) don't agree with what you said. so how are you able to even ruminate on what "the country" thinks or feels?

people need to stop doing that shit.

d

So I'm not sure how tarnished his image is. What did he actually lose?

Also I'm not sure how it dings a movement's credibility and says "women lying," nobody lied in that situation. Nobody, including Asziz, disputed that.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

The thing is, anything written academically about a casual sexual encounter will probably sound creepy at a minimum. I don't think he was in the right there, but I also think it just read like a really bad date to me. It's something he probably learned a lot from, and I'm sure it was embarrassing.

It's way, way different than the criminal stuff that's come out about others, obviously. He wasn't "cancelled". From all accounts, he's addressing it in his stand up right now.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

describing it as a "bad date" is not telling the truth about what happened. if you say it sounded like a bad date I'd appreciate if you went back to specific details of what it said he did (that, iirc, he did not actually refute)

and pretending like people were demanding..what again to happen to him?



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I’ll revisit.

With regards to the “cancelling” - with Aziz, I’m in a bubble as I work in comedy so I saw a lot of “what do we do” talk and it was clear it wasn’t ok to book him for things for awhile. You see the same thing with others right now - Louis of course, TJ MIller, etc. so the “cancel” of it all is more insular than the general public.

Basically - with all these people, it’s pretty clear it’s not ok to work with them right now and taboo To say you’re a fan. Which is weird.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

like, the reaction was loud, and iirc, mostly women talking about how common that behavior is, and it definitely got hot for dude but I don't remember anyone even really discussing like...boycotts or protests against him or much of anything dealing with him beyond an op-ed.

he lost a lot of fans, surely, but I don't remember people coming for him to take something other than the cachet that was driving the sales of his relationship book which...fair?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

R Kelly is basically done for me. I can't listen to much of his stuff without thinking about what he's accused of doing.

I can separate MJ and Cosby though.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

.
.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

Just a real beauty of a combination of post and poster

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

There will be kids who idea of rebelling will be sneaking around go to R Kelly music only parties.

Banished art always makes a comeback among counter-cultured types.


Shit after thoroughly discussing Surviving R Kelly and how terrible a person he is and how we hope he burns in hell, at a recent gathering of mostly women one of the women said, "I will say I hadn't heard that Sparkle joint in a while and it was sounding good". That lead to some playing of R Kelly Adjacent joints (Mr. Biggs, Kelly Price, Sparkle, etc.) and ended with folks stepping in the name of love. I videotaped the whole thing in order to blackmail these "progressive folks".


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>Shit after thoroughly discussing Surviving R Kelly and how
>terrible a person he is and how we hope he burns in hell, at a
>recent gathering of mostly women one of the women said, "I
>will say I hadn't heard that Sparkle joint in a while and it
>was sounding good". That lead to some playing of R Kelly
>Adjacent joints (Mr. Biggs, Kelly Price, Sparkle, etc.) and
>ended with folks stepping in the name of love. I videotaped
>the whole thing in order to blackmail these "progressive
>folks".

Ride the Soundwave.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

All makes sense now.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

These people are rich?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

It was my wife and her sisters. They started stepping in the name of love. I recorded, they were like you better not put that on social media.

That's it.

All jokes. At least they were until OKP got hold of it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

You ever notice that some posters take every word you say 100% at face value, never read between the lines and are bad at picking up sarcasm?

They never make any funny jokes themselves either, nor riff off of other jokes. Just basic insults and personal attacks.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

in a way that would have been impossible and would've made you look even weirder than you did by admitting you filmed people spontaneously stepping in a way that definitely happened?

Now I don't know what to believe!

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

we just react to things that sound/feel good at the time. if we continue on this cancel culture, it'll eliminate so much shit that folks do for entertainment and living in general.

its an impossible task to scale.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

Who is actually being "cancelled" and what does that mean?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

is an example of cancel culture. taking the art, created by those that are deemed bad for society, off the media outlets.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme