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Subject: "If you plan on defending Michael, you should read Unmasked" Previous topic | Next topic
Buddy_Gilapagos
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43423 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 09:01 AM

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"If you plan on defending Michael, you should read Unmasked"


  

          

There is a documentary to be released about two of Michael Jackson's accusers who are now in their thirties.

https://themuse.jezebel.com/michael-jacksons-alleged-child-sexual-abuse-is-the-subj-1831630093

A few years ago I read Unmasked: The Final Years of Michael Jackson by Ian Halperin.

https://www.amazon.com/Unmasked-Final-Years-Michael-Jackson/dp/1439177171

The story is Halperin set out to investigate the alleged assault claims and prove MJJ's guilt but by the end of the investigation, he concluded that MJJ was innocent. He also concluded the big secret that MJJ was hiding was that he was indeed gay.

I have forgotten the particulars but it was a good read and seemed well researched and now seems like a good time to re-read since it's all that twitter will be talking about in about 2 weeks.

You can get it on amazon for 4 bucks. Check it out.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
couple things...
Jan 10th 2019
1
followup - re: repoasting former-gawker-site articles
Jan 10th 2019
4
^^^^Hulk Hogan in disguise^^^^
Jan 10th 2019
20
      lemme tell ya something brother!
Jan 10th 2019
24
      I'm saying!! I didn't know gawker properties were so triggering?!?
Jan 10th 2019
31
           gotta brother like
Jan 10th 2019
34
Dang now you want to shame my twitter habit? SMH.
Jan 10th 2019
5
      lol
Jan 10th 2019
7
           I read the book because of those types of conversations.
Jan 10th 2019
14
           DING! you having all kinda revelations
Jan 10th 2019
23
           we;re very much in a post-factual world. very big factor in why i stoppe...
Jan 11th 2019
44
                and we are all the worse for it
Jan 11th 2019
45
HE IS DEAD.
Jan 10th 2019
2
RE: HE IS DEAD.
Jan 10th 2019
3
i agree with all that, which is why i'd rather discuss that than MJ
Jan 10th 2019
39
This is kind of why I recommend the book. He is dead isn't a great way
Jan 10th 2019
6
      nothing i said was defending him. i'm simply saying i'm not interested.
Feb 01st 2019
59
Twitter sounds like it sucks.
Jan 10th 2019
8
Twitter's great if you know how to use it.
Jan 10th 2019
12
I follow Antonio Brown, some UX blogs and design and architecture
Jan 10th 2019
15
      Literally took me a year to get the UI.
Jan 10th 2019
18
But twitter gave me this this morning.
Jan 10th 2019
19
Twitter seems like high school, without the youth and hope for the futur...
Jan 10th 2019
38
So we shouldn't defend Mike...because he's gay...?
Jan 10th 2019
9
He literally did not say a single thing even resembling that, no.
Jan 10th 2019
10
Lol. Let that man stir
Jan 10th 2019
16
lol dude just be making up talking points to argue against.
Jan 31st 2019
48
I am coming to the conclusion you can't read very well.
Jan 10th 2019
11
      For clarification...I was asking for the clarification in post 14
Jan 10th 2019
17
      those kids were not
Jan 10th 2019
22
      umbrage
Jan 10th 2019
25
           Ripped me a new one rightfully so!
Jan 10th 2019
27
                I would rather not be associated with the
Jan 10th 2019
29
                     Shots fired?!?
Jan 10th 2019
30
                          ngccot
Jan 10th 2019
35
                               when I googled that I got this. LOL.
Jan 10th 2019
36
                                    that is so awesome
Jan 10th 2019
37
thanks for the recommendation.
Jan 10th 2019
13
hate to sound "classist" or what ever but....any book that costs $4...
Jan 10th 2019
21
Whet?
Jan 10th 2019
26
      "You can get it on amazon for 4 bucks. Check it out."
Jan 10th 2019
28
           If you don't believe in paying for books it's probably in a library
Jan 10th 2019
32
                $4 suggests the value is low.
Jan 10th 2019
33
                     Oh now I follow. That's the used price. If you want to pay full price
Jan 10th 2019
40
Unmasked is truly trash.
Jan 10th 2019
41
fantastic replies in this post bro lol.
Jan 10th 2019
42
yeah, reply #41
Jan 11th 2019
43
I wouldn't recommend it. There are way better books that cover the alleg...
Jan 23rd 2019
46
The climate is such that 15 can't really outright defend MJJ but he did
Jan 31st 2019
47
I don't understand....
Jan 31st 2019
49
My Dude
Jan 31st 2019
50
Thank you. Having to go to Twitter causes me irrational rage.
Jan 31st 2019
54
15 instagrammed a movie of it
Jan 31st 2019
57
      That's what set me off the most...like for real dawg??!?! You can't just...
Jan 31st 2019
58
that documentary is straight ducktales.
Jan 31st 2019
51
Have you seen it?
Jan 31st 2019
52
When it premiered, all the critics were commenting and believing it
Jan 31st 2019
53
No one wants to let go of the MJ magic they grew up on
Mar 04th 2019
61
      No one wants to be 'the asshole' and call things what they are
Mar 04th 2019
81
           facts are he paid millions in settlements and slept in beds with boys
Mar 04th 2019
85
                half-truths.
Mar 04th 2019
91
                     i know about the secret recording...so?
Mar 04th 2019
99
                          I take it you're being facetious.
Mar 04th 2019
102
PDF of Aphrodite Jones' book about the 2005 trial
Jan 31st 2019
55
to consider
Jan 31st 2019
56
i believed he did it the moment it broke in 1993
Mar 04th 2019
62
      He did that shit, he guilty as fuck (c) Kanan/50/Curtis Jackson
Mar 04th 2019
65
           Your contention is that young white boys potentially abused by a black
Mar 04th 2019
67
                its straight bullshit lol.
Mar 04th 2019
70
                he's clearly talking about black folks reaction, not mainstream
Mar 04th 2019
71
                If it was clear I wouldn’t be asking.
Mar 04th 2019
72
                It was clear - you didn't need to ask.
Mar 04th 2019
74
                Most folks here are white. So a blanket “we” doesn’t have the effe...
Mar 04th 2019
77
                It was clear.
Mar 04th 2019
75
                Sir, you are in full strawman mode, and you need to stop.
Mar 04th 2019
89
                     doc, i'm not reading all that. he slept with kids
Mar 04th 2019
116
                          = I'm waving the white flag because I got nothing.
Mar 04th 2019
117
                               i am not tryna convince you, champ. you gone.
Mar 04th 2019
119
                                    *holds arms out with wide grin*
Mar 04th 2019
120
                                         gonna talk about what i BEEN talking about
Mar 04th 2019
123
                                              sure. you're 'baffled'.
Mar 04th 2019
125
                                                   Right, you’re winning this by not typing in caps
Mar 05th 2019
130
                                                        I disagree.
Mar 05th 2019
134
                                                             great to go case by case...that's fair
Mar 05th 2019
138
                                                                  ok.
Mar 05th 2019
140
                Us = B/black folks, so hell yes.
Mar 04th 2019
73
                     The clarification makes it less believable
Mar 04th 2019
76
I tried to tell yall.
Mar 04th 2019
60
THAT's what you got from that list?
Mar 04th 2019
63
Those are a couple of the most egregiously salacious without having
Mar 04th 2019
64
      But, that's not even what it said.
Mar 04th 2019
68
           How did I misrepresent what it says?
Mar 04th 2019
83
           :-/
Mar 04th 2019
87
                LOL uhh yea that's pretty damn disingenuous.
Mar 04th 2019
88
                I legit had to reread it a few times.
Mar 04th 2019
90
                Yeah I don't see a huge distinction.
Mar 04th 2019
106
                     You clearly said it that way for a reason
Mar 04th 2019
108
                     That's my point. You can easily reframe it to be a lot more innocuous.
Mar 04th 2019
112
                     Right.
Mar 04th 2019
114
                     :-/
Mar 04th 2019
118
           replied in the wrong place
Mar 04th 2019
86
that list contains a number of falsehoods.
Mar 04th 2019
82
      Such as? Help me Bro. b/c this is madness
Mar 04th 2019
92
           for one: the 'matching' pictures
Mar 04th 2019
95
                Ooooooh. Man Humans with bad agendas suck
Mar 04th 2019
97
                     You can go through the list and refute each one.
Mar 04th 2019
110
Yet another British documentary on MJ.
Mar 04th 2019
66
Bill Cosby tried to buy NBC, soooo
Mar 04th 2019
69
      lazy
Mar 04th 2019
80
      i'm really sorry you think The Man out to get a guy who slept with kids
Mar 04th 2019
84
           Strawmanning like shit, dogg
Mar 04th 2019
93
           RE: i'm really sorry you think The Man out to get a guy who slept with k...
Mar 04th 2019
94
                how you discount sleeping in beds with little boys...CONSTANTLY?
Mar 04th 2019
100
                     RE: how you discount sleeping in beds with little boys...CONSTANTLY?
Mar 04th 2019
101
                          RE: how you discount sleeping in beds with little boys...CONSTANTLY?
Mar 04th 2019
115
                               There is something to be said for the pendulum swing of Oprah
Mar 04th 2019
121
      MJ was weird, probably was a pedo, but this is about bizness.
Mar 05th 2019
132
i said this years ago
Mar 04th 2019
78
the magic of a glove and some moves. hilarious.
Mar 04th 2019
79
Cut da Crap! SHOW OF HANDS! Is MJ A Child Molester? YES/NO?
Mar 04th 2019
96
probably
Mar 04th 2019
98
YES or NO. Get off the fence.
Mar 04th 2019
103
      nah. bottom line is i don't know so i'm not making a definitive claim
Mar 04th 2019
104
No, based on post 89
Mar 04th 2019
105
Yes, but no one cares
Mar 04th 2019
107
there's no definitive answer.
Mar 04th 2019
109
I stand in this line...except for OJ.
Mar 04th 2019
111
      I don't think SoWhat posts here anymore....
Mar 04th 2019
113
Guys... Jackson was a pedo
Mar 04th 2019
122
Man, thanks for coming in and clearing that up.
Mar 04th 2019
127
Based on what I know, no.
Mar 04th 2019
124
His best friend was a chimpanzee. So yeah.
Mar 05th 2019
131
Yes he did it. Look back to 'Bashir' documentary and watch the
Mar 05th 2019
133
So MJ Slept with little boys for months and folks are cool widit, huh?
Mar 04th 2019
126
I didn’t know you could move field goal posts so easily.
Mar 04th 2019
128
He's a christian. That's their primary tact.
Mar 05th 2019
129
dogg, we live in a post-fact society
Mar 05th 2019
135
No you didn't. Post 89 has yet to be addressed with facts
Mar 05th 2019
136
Dude he said this on 60 Mins out his own Mouff
Mar 05th 2019
139
What does that have to do with your initial position
Mar 05th 2019
142
Would you let your kid sleep in MJ's Bed while he slept on the floor
Mar 05th 2019
141
      Your posts started with an accusation of a crime
Mar 05th 2019
143
I don't think there is not a single person here who thinks it was okay f...
Mar 05th 2019
137

Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16181 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 10:00 AM

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1. "couple things..."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jan-10-19 10:01 AM by Selah

          

>RE: If you plan on defending Michael, you should read Unmasked

I'm curious about the idea of people who are PLANNING do defend a dead guy (10 years...maybe this planning is to coincide with it being a decade)?

still, methinks whatever opinion one might have 10 years after his death is pretty set in stone, so what exactly would be the point of this "planned" defense? who would the planner be trying to convince?

*ponders*

>There is a documentary to be released about two of Michael
>Jackson's accusers who are now in their thirties.
>
>https://themuse.jezebel.com/michael-jacksons-alleged-child-sexual-abuse-is-the-subj-1831630093

this is a sidebar...

i'm, a bit nonplussed about the number of former-gawker-site articles that are presented here on OKP for discussion. the number of poorly written and barely researched root/deadspin/jezebel "articles" that are imported makes me think of the chinese knockoffs with lead paint that you see all over LA from the ships @ san pedro (but I digress...)

its like we have become/are becoming a satellite site for their comments sections

remember back when people would come HERE for content then go write/post it elsewhere for internet props (as opposite)?

how the mighty have fallen

guess we gotta post *something* (content matters), but still

sheesh

>The story is Halperin set out to investigate the alleged
>assault claims and prove MJJ's guilt but by the end of the
>investigation, he concluded that MJJ was innocent. He also
>concluded the big secret that MJJ was hiding was that he was
>indeed gay.

he dead. *IF* he hid that, is it REALLY cool to dig up his bones and tell secrets he didn't want told so you can get rich $4 at a time

>now seems like a good time to re-read since it's all that twitter >will be talking about in
>about 2 weeks.

as a brother, on some unsolicited intervention steeze, yesterday when i left work (and therefore this site) the last thing i saw was a comment from you about what twitter is saying/doing

today, the first thing I see is you trying to get ahead of the twitter-curve

you seem like a decent enough cat, so with all due respect, please consider that perhaps you are (getting?) too caught up in what a bunch of not-that-cool-at-all folks out in the ether-web are doing

please don't give them (more) power like that

the world is already screwed up enough

PLEASE know i'm saying this with no intended snark, and I fully recognize that you might/can easily get huffy and retort all salty and whatnot for your own points

I just really think this kinda muckraking (the speculation and whatnot on graves) and fishing for props (wanting to be the flagbearer in the "what da innanet is talkin' 'bout") is one of the real problems of the world and am willing to title at the windmill of trying to be civil and inject a little light into the darkness. i really want us to be better

let the poasting commence...

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16181 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 10:21 AM

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4. "followup - re: repoasting former-gawker-site articles"
In response to Reply # 1
Thu Jan-10-19 10:24 AM by Selah

          

i just realized...

we have always done the whole "respond to current issues in the news" type posts

sadly there are fewer news sources where any type of research and editing-for-factual-erros, editing for actual RELEVANCE of newsworthiness in this "must have fresh content" era, or legit QUALITY in the writing matter

as such sites like the aforementioned are the places where we get "news" from (or perhaps where we simply spend out internet-hours for the sake of being entertained)

that sidebar rant is more tied to my personal disdain for the lack of quality in those places and hating seeing this place digress to following vs leading

but, many of "us" are now actually creating the content in those places so perhaps the thoughts just slid elsewhere

i dunno

its still early in the morning here

this gonna be a long day trying to keep myself entertained

  

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Marauder21
Charter member
48838 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 12:26 PM

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20. "^^^^Hulk Hogan in disguise^^^^"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16181 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 12:53 PM

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24. "lemme tell ya something brother!"
In response to Reply # 20


          

hee-hee-hell

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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43423 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 01:17 PM

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31. "I'm saying!! I didn't know gawker properties were so triggering?!?"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16181 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 01:39 PM

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34. "gotta brother like"
In response to Reply # 31


          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClXJY53rV8E

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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43423 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 10:24 AM

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5. "Dang now you want to shame my twitter habit? SMH. "
In response to Reply # 1
Thu Jan-10-19 10:31 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

But for real, I might be a little too heavy on the twitters but I like to think that when I am referring to twitter I am using it as a proxy for public discussion (I probably should have said "twitter, the media and everyone will be talking about".). But twitter is a good indicator to what everyone will eventually be discussing including here and the mainstream media. Which is unfortunate because twitter is also an awful place to try and have a thoughtful nuanced discussion. I think that's why I tend to take topics from there and try to have better discussions here.

As far as linking the jezebel article, wasn't trying to discuss the article, was giving details about the documentary to be released. I linked it for the facts, not the commentary (was there commentary?). I could have used any link discussing the doc but that is the first to pop up in google.

As far as why I am planning to defend MJJ? That's easy I am a fan and I also think he is innocent after researching the allegations. There is already an effort to link him to R Kelly and I think folks should be armed with the facts to push back on that. My kids were singing his songs last night and I want to help protect his legacy.

Do you approve?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16181 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 10:36 AM

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7. "lol"
In response to Reply # 5


          

>But for real, I might be a little too heavy on the twitters

m'jus sayin.....

>but I like to think that when I am referring to twitter I am
>using it as a proxy for public discussion. It's a good
>indicator to what everyone will eventually be discussing
>including here and the mainstream media. Which is unfortunate
>because twitter is also an awful place to try and have a
>thoughtful nuanced discussion. I think that's why I tend to
>take topics from there and try to have better discussions
>here.

twitter and twitter people kinda suck (by and large)

i don't think they should be the arbiters, and am chagrined at how much power that pack of rabid jackalpoes are being given toward what should be "the norm". but who am I?

>I could have used any link
>discussing the doc but that is the first to pop up in google.

wherever you would have referenced would have been a "cosign" to the veracity of the source. in essence pointing people to it <-- this is the whole purpose of a reference, right?

>As far as why I am planning to defend MJJ? That's easy I am a
> fan and I also think he is innocent after researching the
>allegations. There is already an effort to link him to R
>Kelly and I think folks should be armed with the facts to push
>back on that. My kids were singing his songs last night and I
>want to help protect his legacy.

i remember the day he died. i sat with my then office-mate and was completely given pause by the news. he (a then early 20s white dude, fresh outta college) couldn't get why I would be bothered AT ALL. He was literally on some "good. he was a child molester"

i have rarely seen someone so convinced of anything

we went around and around (me pointing out things he wasn't aware of: just how famous jackson was at one point, the charitable works, and the researched refutations to the allegations, etc) and he was like: nope

he had been raised to believe that Jackson was the boogeyman

this to me is one of those OJ things

folk gonna believe whatever the believe till THEY die

>Do you approve?

we are all just bouncing thoughts. my "approval" doesn't matter

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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43423 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 11:54 AM

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14. "I read the book because of those types of conversations. "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

I wanted to shut people down with facts when they started spouting that bullshit. I am learning facts in arguments are overrated.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16181 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 12:52 PM

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23. "DING! you having all kinda revelations"
In response to Reply # 14


          

>I am learning facts in arguments are
>overrated.

i'd amend that to "arguments are overrated" period

again:

sick.sad.world

  

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poetx
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Fri Jan-11-19 01:34 PM

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44. "we;re very much in a post-factual world. very big factor in why i stoppe..."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

writing.

not the only one.

but i think my last published article was in '09.

i used to care about convincing ppl about stuff. now i'm not convinced that people can be convinced.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16181 posts
Fri Jan-11-19 04:06 PM

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45. "and we are all the worse for it"
In response to Reply # 44


          

the loss of you writing is a great one
the loss of facts mattering

all that

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
33478 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 10:01 AM

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2. "HE IS DEAD."
In response to Reply # 0


          

and isn't a threat to ANYONE

can we please focus our energy on those that are ALIVE AND STILL ABLE TO RAPE?

maybe help upend the social protections that exist for people who hurt kids?

maybe root this shit out your own families and communities?


why is that so hard?

d

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16181 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 10:12 AM

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3. "RE: HE IS DEAD."
In response to Reply # 2


          

>and isn't a threat to ANYONE
>
>can we please focus our energy on those that are ALIVE AND
>STILL ABLE TO RAPE?
>
>maybe help upend the social protections that exist for people
>who hurt kids?
>
>maybe root this shit out your own families and communities?
>
>
>why is that so hard?

a few (in no way intended to be exhaustive) reasons why its hard to to the above things:

1. the way the justice system is set up

2. the way power is set up

3. how society ofen de-values victims

4. how society often de-values "the weak" in general

5. backlash against "you must believe the accuser" pendulum swinging

6. the fact that victimization is often the outgrowth of being victimized or oppressed

a couple of reason

1. dead people *can't* defend themselves, or argue back
2. sensationalism sells (for example capitalizing on a death "anniversary") more than listening to tales of abuse told directly from some kid or victimized person. today's culture absolutely loves "the tea" right?

file all under: sick.sad.world

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
33478 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 02:26 PM

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39. "i agree with all that, which is why i'd rather discuss that than MJ"
In response to Reply # 3


          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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43423 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 10:29 AM

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6. "This is kind of why I recommend the book. He is dead isn't a great way"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

way to defend anyone.

His estate reaps millions. If he were indeed raping children then the money should be going to better causes.

If he raped children I don't think I want my kids idolizing him and singing his songs.

There is also some whataboutism in your post as well.

Either dude is a child rapist which should be reflected in his legacy or he is someone wrongly accused of crimes he didn't commit. We probably have to choose one.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
33478 posts
Fri Feb-01-19 06:12 PM

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59. "nothing i said was defending him. i'm simply saying i'm not interested."
In response to Reply # 6


          

if people want to sue his estate, they can. But rightfully so, his estate belongs to his family.

if you want to wrestle with this, i'm not stopping or dissuading you.

i'm simply saying I'd rather focus my energy on those that are alive and still able to hurt people.

d

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
59934 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 11:21 AM

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8. "Twitter sounds like it sucks. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

I have it but rarely use it and don’t follow many people.

shut up already, damn

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu Jan-10-19 11:37 AM

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12. "Twitter's great if you know how to use it."
In response to Reply # 8
Thu Jan-10-19 11:40 AM by Brew

          

You read articles on the internet right ? And you mostly ignore the comments to maintain your sanity, right ? That's what Twitter can be. If you follow the right people (who provide insightful articles and threads rather than one-liners and bullshit thinkpieces) it is a *great* place for to-the-minute information and intelligent discourse.

If you read someone's think piece, then dive into the muck with the commenters, you're in deep shit. Never, ever, ever do that.

Follow thinkers, sports journalists, historians covering the Russia investigation (covering it well, not the hyper folks), shit like that ... and read their threads and articles. And like I said, never start reading the comments ever ever ever even for a single moment, just like you wouldn't go balls deep in the comments section of any news article.

Beyond the practical uses of it, and if you're looking for actual fun - NBA twitter is the best twitter, if you're a basketball fan.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
59934 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 11:59 AM

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15. "I follow Antonio Brown, some UX blogs and design and architecture "
In response to Reply # 12


          

but I only visit twitter when someone post in here.

I don’t like the UI for Twitter so I’m off it after 2 minutes.

Prolly don’t like it because most of the links I click from news sources or here is to some controversy.

shut up already, damn

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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18. "Literally took me a year to get the UI. "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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19. "But twitter gave me this this morning. "
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

https://twitter.com/_AlexHirsch/status/1083140191362048000


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
11178 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 02:23 PM

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38. "Twitter seems like high school, without the youth and hope for the futur..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Just a bunch of old clique-y folks that can't even express real opinions because the collective frowns upon dissenting views.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
13906 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 11:29 AM

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9. "So we shouldn't defend Mike...because he's gay...?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not that that would be any earth shattering revelation

...but I'm confused by the premise of your post...

You're saying we should watch the documentary for affirming his innocence IRT child molestation...but we will be all the way done with him based on the doc concluding he's gay

He made thriller...thriller (c)

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
16830 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 11:34 AM

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10. "He literally did not say a single thing even resembling that, no."
In response to Reply # 9


          

>RE: So we shouldn't defend Mike...because he's gay...?
>Not that that would be any earth shattering revelation
>
>...but I'm confused by the premise of your post...
>
>You're saying we should watch the documentary for affirming
>his innocence IRT child molestation...but we will be all the
>way done with him based on the doc concluding he's gay
>
>He made thriller...thriller (c)

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
59934 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 11:59 AM

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16. "Lol. Let that man stir "
In response to Reply # 10


          

shut up already, damn

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
6082 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 08:42 AM

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48. "lol dude just be making up talking points to argue against."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

------

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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11. "I am coming to the conclusion you can't read very well. "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

1. I did not at all suggest that anyone watch a documentary affirming MJJ's innocent.

2. Nowhere did I suggest that there is anything wrong with him being gay. I think if I even hinted at that Selah and Damali would have ripped me a brand spanking new one.


Maybe try reading again really really slowly.




>Not that that would be any earth shattering revelation
>
>...but I'm confused by the premise of your post...
>
>You're saying we should watch the documentary for affirming
>his innocence IRT child molestation...but we will be all the
>way done with him based on the doc concluding he's gay
>
>He made thriller...thriller (c)
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Thu Jan-10-19 12:07 PM

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17. "For clarification...I was asking for the clarification in post 14"
In response to Reply # 11
Thu Jan-10-19 12:08 PM by bentagain

  

          

It's an oddly worded post

and I wasn't sure what you were saying

There's a doc coming out that reintroduces the child molestation allegations...and we should read unmasked so we can push back against those allegations

^^^ this is what you're saying...correct?

I'm good on that...thanks

Mike was under FBI investigation since 1993, that's all I or anyone else needs to know

IRT the R Kelly connection

I actually brought this up in that post

I think the fact that Mike was basically destroyed as a public figure by the child molestation allegations...and there was never any proof...or any criminal convictions

Feels like a huge omission from the R Kelly docuseries

yes, we do have the tendency to protect our own

But given the Mike example, I think that that had a lot to do with why people didn't just automatically stop R's career

IMO.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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tariqhu
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Thu Jan-10-19 12:51 PM

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22. "those kids were not"
In response to Reply # 17


          

black girls/women. ones that didn't look like the girls/women that kellz is messing with.

plus gay was 'bad' during that time.

nah, you trippin

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16181 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 12:56 PM

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25. "umbrage"
In response to Reply # 11


          

>I think if I even hinted at that Selah and
>Damali would have ripped me a brand spanking new one.

BRUH!!!!!

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Jan-10-19 12:58 PM

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27. "Ripped me a new one rightfully so! "
In response to Reply # 25


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16181 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 01:07 PM

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29. "I would rather not be associated with the"
In response to Reply # 27
Thu Jan-10-19 01:09 PM by Selah

          

"mEn R TRash...but by the way, i need help so loan me some ca$h" brigade

please

and I, again, wasn't trying to trip. just questioned some of the perspective(s)

i actively don't get into all that rah-rah broad-brush, pissing-contest stuff

no point in it

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Jan-10-19 01:16 PM

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30. "Shots fired?!?"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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Thu Jan-10-19 01:43 PM

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35. "ngccot"
In response to Reply # 30


          

one person's "stated facts" is another's "shots fired"

*shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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36. "when I googled that I got this. LOL. "
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_mesg&forum=18&topic_id=50917&mesg_id=50996&page=

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16181 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 02:12 PM

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37. "that is so awesome"
In response to Reply # 36


          

and pretty much proved we've been a bunch of a-holes forever

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
129512 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 11:43 AM

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13. "thanks for the recommendation."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>A few years ago I read Unmasked: The Final Years of Michael
>Jackson by Ian Halperin.
>
>https://www.amazon.com/Unmasked-Final-Years-Michael-Jackson/dp/1439177171
>
>The story is Halperin set out to investigate the alleged
>assault claims and prove MJJ's guilt but by the end of the
>investigation, he concluded that MJJ was innocent. He also
>concluded the big secret that MJJ was hiding was that he was
>indeed gay.
>
>I have forgotten the particulars but it was a good read and
>seemed well researched and now seems like a good time to
>re-read since it's all that twitter will be talking about in
>about 2 weeks.
>
>You can get it on amazon for 4 bucks. Check it out.

I think though that they have not yet been named, I highly suspect the subjects of the forthcoming documentary to be Wade Robson and James Safechuck, both of whom filed a number of suits against Michael Jackson and related entities posthumously. the suits were dismissed in court on a legal technicality; Robson's claims are most interesting because he actually testified under oath in the 2005 case otherwise. Wondering what this documentary is going to reveal that hasn't already come out in the cases against MJ they filed.

I do find it funnystyle that they went after a dead man like this, though. what's the end goal? and most importantly, where are the receipts? usually, when there's someone famous doing THIS kind of shit... there's always some NDA, some payoff, something.

the MJ receipts we do have through criminal reports, FBI investigations, court cases, all come to the same conclusion. There is no evidence that even suggests MJ was doing this sort of thing.


Also, the filmography of Dan Reed (the director) also gives me pause but I'll wait and see what happens when the film is in public hands.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com
Does he ACCEPT? http://i.imgur.com/TBMrAkD.jpg

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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Thu Jan-10-19 12:28 PM

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21. "hate to sound "classist" or what ever but....any book that costs $4..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...shouldn't be the basis for defending or not defending anybody.



>
>You can get it on amazon for 4 bucks. Check it out.
>

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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26. "Whet?"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10361 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 01:02 PM

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28. ""You can get it on amazon for 4 bucks. Check it out.""
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

^^^that

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Jan-10-19 01:33 PM

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32. "If you don't believe in paying for books it's probably in a library"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

of you could just read this twitter thread I guess:

https://twitter.com/MJJLegion/status/874793293464432640


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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Thu Jan-10-19 01:35 PM

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33. "$4 suggests the value is low. "
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

yep

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Jan-10-19 09:42 PM

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40. "Oh now I follow. That's the used price. If you want to pay full price"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

Please feel free.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
39652 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 10:41 PM

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41. "Unmasked is truly trash."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I own it. I read like 50 pages and felt bad about buying it, but here we are.

Anyway, it's a really bad book - poorly written, and while it may have elements of truth - it reads like fan fiction.

With that said...with all the evidence, articles, books, and podcasts I've ingested over the years...I still think MJ is innocent. This doc may change my mind, I dunno. But still...the accusers up until now have been majorly unreliable.

------------------------------
'18-'19 LA Lakers

James. Ingram. Ball. Kuzma. Stephenson. Rondo. Caldwell-Pope. McGee. TBD...

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
8930 posts
Thu Jan-10-19 11:26 PM

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42. "fantastic replies in this post bro lol."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
10361 posts
Fri Jan-11-19 09:13 AM

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43. "yeah, reply #41"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

OKP still got it.

  

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jaywonder
Member since Jun 05th 2007
8418 posts
Wed Jan-23-19 06:36 PM

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46. "I wouldn't recommend it. There are way better books that cover the alleg..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-23-19 06:42 PM by jaywonder

  

          

A lot of Unmasked has been debunked and some had already been when it was published. The author has a spotty history, to say the least.

Michael Jackson Conspiracy by Aphrodite Jones- She was a reporter during the 2005 trial who realized as time went on, that she was on the wrong side (she originally sided with the accusers)


https://www.amazon.com/Michael-Jackson-Conspiracy-Aphrodite-Jones/dp/0615686206/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1548289840&sr=8-1&keywords=aphrodite+jones+michael+jackson


Redemption by Geraldine Hughes. Hughes was the legal secretary working on the 1993 case

https://www.amazon.com/Redemption-Michael-Jackson-Molestation-Allegations/dp/1576880362/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1548289885&sr=8-1&keywords=redemption+geraldine+hughes


And this site is a great resource
https://themichaeljacksonallegations.com/


and most of the books are here as well
http://jetzi-mjvideo.com/books/

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Jan-31-19 08:29 AM

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47. "The climate is such that 15 can't really outright defend MJJ but he did"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

share this Forbes article:

https://twitter.com/questlove/status/1090426713220116481


It's a good read. This documentary is an interesting moment because the question is, is there room to call bullshit on the less credible abuse claims in this day and age?




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
40833 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 08:47 AM

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49. "I don't understand...."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

WHY MF'S CAN'T JUST LINK TO THE FCKING ARTICLE!!!
I DONE FOLLOWED 3 FCKIN LINKS NOW AND STILL DON'T SEE THE ACTUAL FORBES ARTICLE!!!



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Jan-31-19 09:39 AM

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50. "My Dude"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joevogel/2019/01/29/what-you-should-know-about-the-new-michael-jackson-documentary/#625c4ca5640f


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
40833 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 10:11 AM

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54. "Thank you. Having to go to Twitter causes me irrational rage. "
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

>https://www.forbes.com/sites/joevogel/2019/01/29/what-you-should-know-about-the-new-michael-jackson-documentary/#625c4ca5640f
>
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16181 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 10:48 AM

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57. "15 instagrammed a movie of it"
In response to Reply # 49


          

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtPag0CA81Y/

instead of just posting, I dunno, the words? a pointer (link) TO them maybe

*awesome* use of technology

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
40833 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 10:54 AM

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58. "That's what set me off the most...like for real dawg??!?! You can't just..."
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Link to the joint in you hashtags or whatever???

Entertainment people are really "special" sometimes....




>https://www.instagram.com/p/BtPag0CA81Y/
>
>instead of just posting, I dunno, the words? a pointer (link)
>TO them maybe
>
>*awesome* use of technology


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
77523 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 09:52 AM

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51. "that documentary is straight ducktales."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
11810 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 10:06 AM

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52. "Have you seen it?"
In response to Reply # 51


          

  

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jaywonder
Member since Jun 05th 2007
8418 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 10:09 AM

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53. "When it premiered, all the critics were commenting and believing it"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

And didn't bother looking into their cases

People would bring up facts from the court documents and how the accusers' have contradicted themselves (even in court), but they'd get criticized

As things have moved away from the weekend airings, other people have come out and said while it's very disturbing and sexually graphic, it provides no evidence and the accusers don't come off as incredibly believable (Wade especially, who tried to cry but couldn't drop a tear)

The director didn't even attempt to make a balanced film, and I don't even think that was his aim

This answer he gave to the LA Times was a big WTF moment:


========
Both Robson and Safechuck previously testified in court that Jackson never abused them, and now they say they lied because they have since come to terms with what was done to them. Were you skeptical of their stories going into this?

When Wade told me that he loved Michael, then everything suddenly crystallized and made sense. This is difficult to say, but he had a fulfilling sexual and emotional relationship at the age of 7 with a 30-year-old man who happened to be the King of Pop. And because he enjoyed it, he loved Michael, and the sex was pleasant. I’m sorry, that’s just the reality.
==========


Huh?

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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61. "No one wants to let go of the MJ magic they grew up on"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          


it baffles me that people can understand that an abuser might not abuse every woman he's with.

a rapist doesn't rape everyone he encounters.

like I've seen people defending MJ UNDERSTAND these things, but they think MJ not smashing Culkin is a smoking gun of innocence?

and you just gloss over damning stuff like sleeping in bed with kids and being int he hot tub.

like, y'all wanna hold onto this stuff THAT BAD?

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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81. "No one wants to be 'the asshole' and call things what they are"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

not how they look. that's what the issue is.

and because MJ lived a life that made it easy for this stuff to be believed, regardless of what the facts actually are?

people are gonna come to this conclusion.

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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85. "facts are he paid millions in settlements and slept in beds with boys"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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91. "half-truths."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

I'll address the settlement.

he paid one settlement, in the '93 case. this was done because the court granted the accusers the preference of a civil trial. without it, MJ would not have been able to have a fair criminal trial; in fact, the conditions (leaked to the tabloid press) stipulated the money was not being paid as an admission of guilt.

It did not half the proceeding of the criminal case, because you can't "settle" a criminal case. the investigation proceeded, went to grand jury in 2 counties, both declined to indict after having seen the evidence collected (including the pictures taken of Mike that Maureen Orth claims matched accuser's description). the accusers also refused to cooperate w/the prosecution.

one thing that is also true (you won't click but I want everyone else reading this reply to do so): the stepfather of the accuser secretly recorded a conversation with the accuser's father (the architect of the allegations) basically detailing his plans to extort Jackson. he gave it to MJ's private investigator, who leaked it to the media.

but as you admit below, you believed it immediately upon accusation (which is something that I don't fault you for completely) but likely rolled with the "he did it because he paid" narrative that came after that settlement; MJ himself could not speak about it to the press as per stipulation, neither could the accusers.


The tape: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx8Z9fxxw-U

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com
Does he ACCEPT? http://i.imgur.com/TBMrAkD.jpg

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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99. "i know about the secret recording...so? "
In response to Reply # 91


  

          


i think some of the women The Cos raped want money, too. and?

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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102. "I take it you're being facetious."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

Cosby's accusers were not out for money, but for justice. using the Constand example (the first one we knew about): she tried a criminal trial FIRST, and lack of evidence that could bring things to trial sunk it. a civil suit followed, with 13 witnesses attached, that Cosby settled and the details of which remained sealed for years.

this differs from MJ, in that while outcomes were similar, the motives were different.

with MJ: the accuser wanted a civil trial first and got it. nothing kept them from proceeding with a criminal trial, even money. without their participation, MJ couldn't go to trial. it was a pyrrhic "victory".

with Cosby: the accuser wanted JAIL. couldn't get that, so only legal recourse was civil. Cos paid it off, kept the material sealed.... came out 10 years later, now he's in JAIL based on what he said in the civil case.

  

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jaywonder
Member since Jun 05th 2007
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Thu Jan-31-19 10:11 AM

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55. "PDF of Aphrodite Jones' book about the 2005 trial"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://mega.nz/?fbclid=IwAR0vLNFiUr4QkYw8VrC87VglpX7tqYyA3kxuvAHkBVGS1cdOMiMRensuQcc#!MRE3yJKI!GIpocKCn5VrqZbPiyOkNyInuptbHSD_3s63IlZE--0E

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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Thu Jan-31-19 10:44 AM

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56. "to consider"
In response to Reply # 0


          

to try and put it succinctly:

the farther we get away from the times when these things happen, the easier it is for folks without that context to believe they are true

for lack of a better term it is a form of "recent-information bias"

if "Recency bias" is the phenomenon of a person most easily remembering something that has happened recently, compared to remembering something that may have occurred a while back.

then "recent-information bias" is the tendency to believe what you are hearing now (often the first thing) compared to looking at events through the lens of the times in which they occurred (or norms therein)

now in the case of Jackson, we are in a space where as a reaction to years of NOT believing victims (the "prove the crime too place" era) we are swinging the pendulum to the place where accusations are pretty much accepted as fact and the accused needs to prove their innocence so folks will see that documentary and react to the pain of it all with acceptance/belief rather than look for supporting facts

on a wider scale though I see a frequency of wanting to look at something from times past and judge it through today's lens (essentially asking: would THAT behavior be cool today? then passing judgement when the obvious answer of no results). This is initiated with ZERO consideration, or care really, for what might have precipitated or caused the incident in its time (for example this OP: http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13309604 )

it makes conversation difficult because folks get locked into a position and just wanna share and repeat it until folks either stop dissenting or accept the argument because of the level of passion therein - facts, logic, and reasoning be dammed

just a random thought/opinion

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Mon Mar-04-19 10:45 AM

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62. "i believed he did it the moment it broke in 1993"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          


and the fact that y'all willing to dismiss two fake marriages, all kinds of lies, sleepin in beds, hot tubbing...secret rooms...silent alarms....

yeah, he was just a kid inside. i know.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Teknontheou
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65. "He did that shit, he guilty as fuck (c) Kanan/50/Curtis Jackson"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

Alot of us will always give him a pass because of who he was and the fact that seemingly all of the accusers/victims were white boys.

If there had been any girls or black children in the mix, he'd be condemned at least a little bit more, especially now that the tide seems to have turned on R. Kelly (finally).

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Mon Mar-04-19 11:20 AM

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67. "Your contention is that young white boys potentially abused by a black"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

man in the United States of America garner less sympathy and outrage than young girls or young girls of color?
That’s your position?

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Mon Mar-04-19 11:24 AM

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70. "its straight bullshit lol."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Basaglia
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Mon Mar-04-19 11:28 AM

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71. "he's clearly talking about black folks reaction, not mainstream"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          


but y'all are in full deflect mode. and for what? i damn glitter glove and some wiggling?

pathetic

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Mon Mar-04-19 11:32 AM

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72. "If it was clear I wouldn’t be asking. "
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Teknontheou
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Mon Mar-04-19 11:37 AM

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74. "It was clear - you didn't need to ask."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Mon Mar-04-19 11:43 AM

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77. "Most folks here are white. So a blanket “we” doesn’t have the effe..."
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

seem to believe it has.

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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75. "It was clear."
In response to Reply # 72


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Mon Mar-04-19 02:28 PM

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89. "Sir, you are in full strawman mode, and you need to stop."
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

>but y'all are in full deflect mode. and for what? i damn
>glitter glove and some wiggling?

and you're in here mining material so you can post all skepticism of this latest "revelation" as the fantastical deflection of fans for the lulz to posit yourself as "above the bullshit".

There are some legitimate reasons to be skeptical of the subjects of this film. they have nothing to do with MJ moonwalking, "heeheeing" or whatever else the fuck.

the problem is, no one with a check by their name, or getting a check from a big publishing house is brave enough to be "the villain" on this topic. at least not anymore. the closest we've gotten is a piece in Slate, and another piece in Pitchfork.

you're making some obscure allusions to a Vanity Fair piece built by Maureen Orth, who has been verifiably publishing lies, and is once again doing so because the subject is being brought up.


this film is being presented, possibly intentionally, absent of context, bereft of corroborating stories, or the kind of "receipts" that sunk the likes of Cosby and especially are in the process of finally sinking R. Kelly.

and much of the viewing public is either unaware of that context or already has their mind made up. people that thought Mike was a pedo because he basically had all the outward signs of one and was just living a circus life, and people (mostly the Stans) who believe he is 100% innocent without question.

and then you have people like me (because I know this post is gonna end up being about me eventually), who, wanted to learn for himself what actually happened in 1993, in the early 2000s, particularly in legal proceedings. and again, 7 or so years ago, when the allegations detailed in this film first appeared, waited to see what would come out in court before commenting.

and I can say the reporting on MJ's allegations are not particularly good from many mainstream outlets. one of the few pieces, in GQ by Mary Fischer in 1994, put those allegations in proper context. there were other pieces in recent years Huffpo has published that also address this reporting and how narratives have been built that conflict with reality.

Mike was investigated without his knowledge for a decade by the FBI at the behest of law enforcement that were already investigating him. they have hundreds of pages of what they found. because "ain't no one gonna read all that shit", it's ignored. and because of that, Radar Online was able to lie about him, people ran with the headlines and the circus started all over again. motherfuckers said he had shit from books that weren't even published until AFTER he was dead.

and that's my thing with Mike: if he did the shit, you ain't got to LIE. and yet, so many people in high places are doing just that, and rarely get checked on it. I don't get it.

but yeah, "Mike did it (because he adopted a queerish image, probably was gay, was around kids a lot, and you know them niggas are pedophiles...)" <---- that's how you sound with that "glitter glove" talk.

I personally don't dismiss the notion that Mike could be a pedo. but so far, each time the subject's been approached, the actual receipts, not the circumstance, point toward reasonable doubt of those claims. this film doesn't change that. in fact, not unlike the Smollett matter, this could have a much more pernicious effect in the long run.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com
Does he ACCEPT? http://i.imgur.com/TBMrAkD.jpg

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Mon Mar-04-19 04:40 PM

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116. "doc, i'm not reading all that. he slept with kids"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Dr Claw
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117. "= I'm waving the white flag because I got nothing."
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

cool beans, no dirt off my shoulder

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Mon Mar-04-19 04:50 PM

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119. "i am not tryna convince you, champ. you gone. "
In response to Reply # 117
Mon Mar-04-19 04:53 PM by Basaglia

  

          

and looking past sleeping in the same bed with little boys, jacuzzi time, stalkerish behavior and fighting parents for their time with their own children to dispute other FACTS just let me know i ain't convincing NOBODY who skip all that shit to talk about fuckin music publishing and witness credibility of old ass powerless maids.

nigga, he BOUGHT kids. at the time it was cysed like he and debbie rowe were married and fuckin. she say she ain't fuck him. he BOUGHT kids.

lisa marie minding her business because she knows she was paid to say she fucked him with he was mired in controversy.

sit there and think all that tragically weird shit is irrelevant in the face of your "research"

the dancing wasn't even that fuckin good. damn.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Mon Mar-04-19 05:22 PM

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120. "*holds arms out with wide grin* "
In response to Reply # 119
Mon Mar-04-19 05:23 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

I'm "gone", but you the one mad as fuck... LOL.
Debbie Rowe? who the fuck mentioned her, breh? she ain't got nothing to do with this

we disagree.
you got your preconceived notions and suspicions.
I'm pointing to facts.
it's cool.

you gonna talk about how people "ignoring signs" and shit on the 'cast?

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49296 posts
Mon Mar-04-19 06:22 PM

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123. "gonna talk about what i BEEN talking about"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          


agendas.

he raped boys and you dig for reasons he didn't, based on the standard of a court of law. yet, niggas like you don't wanna hear "facts" when that standard fails in so many other cases.

mad? baffled is what it is.

my nigga, you will sit there and ARGUE about a CHILD not getting the exact location of a mark on that dude's dick as "inconclusive"

you are fucking GONE.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Mon Mar-04-19 07:33 PM

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125. "sure. you're 'baffled'."
In response to Reply # 123
Mon Mar-04-19 07:35 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

you're mad. you're typing in caps, saying that he "raped boys" based on what? fanfiction?

certainly not the results of actual investigations performed by law enforcement. which happened EVERY time he was accused.

if I was doing what you've been doing up and down this thread, I'd accuse you of being a homophobe who just stepped right out the closet in this thread.

but I won't do that, because I know you're mad. you won't read what I say? you just gonna flail and say "HE SLEPT WITH BOYS! HE RAPED BOYS!"

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49296 posts
Tue Mar-05-19 12:38 AM

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130. "Right, you’re winning this by not typing in caps"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

Except I’m not tryna “win”...I’m geniunely baffled by the inconsistency of the application of the US LEGAL SYSTEM as the final word in celebrity cases. Pretty clear it’s agenda-based.

I believe them. Simple as that.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Tue Mar-05-19 06:50 AM

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134. "I disagree."
In response to Reply # 130
Tue Mar-05-19 06:51 AM by Dr Claw

  

          

I'm not even assuming they are the final word without question. As I have continually done, I treat these matters on a case by case basis.

And thus far: MJ's accusers were taken seriously, every time. in fact, the first case even gave the accusers civil trial preference. The prosecution was in control every time. they carried out their investigations. the outcomes are what they are. I don't really see anything that really causes me to question them on that regard. anything else is pure conjecture. Mike was grilled same as the witnesses for the prosecution.

so people trying to say he Cosby'd his way out is inaccurate, and people who say his Not Guilty is the same as R. Kelly's are definitely wrong.

it seems everyone is allowed to be found innocent except niggas.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com
Does he ACCEPT? http://i.imgur.com/TBMrAkD.jpg

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Tue Mar-05-19 12:18 PM

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138. "great to go case by case...that's fair"
In response to Reply # 134
Tue Mar-05-19 12:21 PM by Basaglia

  

          

but i believe political and social climate matters as well. one DA was hesitant to go at Cos when he we still an iconic black father figure. after niggas cut him loose for talking shit, he became vulnerable and 10 years later another DA picks up the same evidence and gets a conviction because no one gave a fuck...no DA was scared about blowback...no jury gave a fuck...no risk of riots. nothing. i mean, a JOKE laid the groundwork for that. hannibal basically jumped in and said the water's fine and it was game over.

that was not the case with MJ in 1993 or 2005. seems like it still isn't. the only reason this shit even got made is because of the changing social climate. niggas would have been protesting outside HBO offices in the 90s. NOW??? all black "leaders" know better than to say a damned word. not one word protecting mike.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Tue Mar-05-19 01:48 PM

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140. "ok."
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

>but i believe political and social climate matters as well.
>one DA was hesitant to go at Cos when he we still an iconic
>black father figure. after niggas cut him loose for talking
>shit, he became vulnerable and 10 years later another DA picks
>up the same evidence and gets a conviction because no one gave
>a fuck...no DA was scared about blowback...no jury gave a
>fuck...no risk of riots. nothing. i mean, a JOKE laid the
>groundwork for that. hannibal basically jumped in and said the
>water's fine and it was game over.

this is fair, only because of how the narrative changed.

however I disagree with the reasoning that Cosby was given preferential treatment initially because of his celebrity. the criminal charges were dropped because of insufficient evidence, reportedly. in a post below I note that because of the nature of many sexual crimes, physical "proof" is very hard to obtain after the fact, and for a third party to analyze the claim it becomes a game of which story has the most evidence and corroboration. there is plausible deniability.

however, a civil case did proceed, with as many as 15 Jane Does ready to testify. Cosby gave testimony that later was the rope for his criminal undoing, but he settled, forcing all the testimony, including his own into a seal for years.

as you said, it was the changing winds that eventually broke things open. after many women told very similar stories to Constand (the 2005 accuser), the AP requested the documents to be unsealed. a judge granted it on the ground of Cosby being a "public moralist".

then the rejection of criminal charges became a political issue. incoming DA basically won election on the fact that the DA declined to charge him.


>that was not the case with MJ in 1993 or 2005. seems like it
>still isn't. the only reason this shit even got made is
>because of the changing social climate. niggas would have been
>protesting outside HBO offices in the 90s. NOW??? all black
>"leaders" know better than to say a damned word. not one word
>protecting mike.

this account is at odds with what happened. the actual reporting on MJ's cases in both situations was heavily in favor of the prosecution. in 2005, much of the cross examination of key prosecution witnesses was downplayed. but anytime something that can prop up the "circus" narrative popped up, like MJ running into the court in pajamas? that got headlines.

nothing stopped MJ from being charged criminally in 1993 or 2005. DA Tom Sneddon's whole notability in the first place is because of these cases. he didn't GAF if he put MJ in jail. that was his job and his goal.

I'm not convinced completely that this got made specifically or rather... solely because of the changing social climate. however, it does help. the film didn't disclose prior civil case attempts at all, yet the makers and the subjects say "it isn't about money". there is also a distinct lack of investigation in the film. no attempts to corroborate stories, weave it within prior allegations, establish any pattern of behavior that the accused may have done.

where the current social climate comes in is: few will be willing to challenge in public, even less than in 1993 and 2005, the veracity of these claims. the narrative is "believe victims regardless" rather than "take them seriously and investigate".

this is exactly what the director and the subjects are banking on. that they will be believed wholesale, unchecked, out of context with their prior history, specifically as it relates to these allegations. they are specifically seizing on tenets of real issues with child sex abuse, the ways in which society has dealt with the topic poorly, so on and so forth.

finally, regarding black leaders: the SCLC sent a strongly-worded letter to HBO in advance of the broadcast of the film.

most of the "we believe it" Black voices are aligned with Oprah and the "LIBRUL MEDIA", with little to no deviation from the opinions espoused in similar voice.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com
Does he ACCEPT? http://i.imgur.com/TBMrAkD.jpg

  

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Teknontheou
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73. "Us = B/black folks, so hell yes."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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76. "The clarification makes it less believable "
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

“WE” express much more condemnation as a people against homosexuality and race mixing.
But that’s your belief and contention and to each their own.

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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60. "I tried to tell yall. "
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-04-19 07:37 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

I mean look at this list

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/03/10-undeniable-facts-about-the-michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-allegations


The use the fact that he had security cameras in his home as evidence of... somehthing.

Or the fact that father's of accusers have killed themselves. SMH.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
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Mon Mar-04-19 10:51 AM

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63. "THAT's what you got from that list?"
In response to Reply # 60


          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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64. "Those are a couple of the most egregiously salacious without having"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

much substantive value. I think almost all of the "Facts" listed are somewhat like that.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
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Mon Mar-04-19 11:21 AM

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68. "But, that's not even what it said."
In response to Reply # 64


          

C'mon. Have a POV but at least be objective in your recounting (especially since most of us can read).

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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83. "How did I misrepresent what it says?"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
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87. ":-/"
In response to Reply # 83


          

You said:

The use the fact that he had security cameras in his home as evidence of... somehthing. (sic)

What is actually written is:

The hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom was a serious security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds.


You don't think what you said is at all misrepresenting what is written here? Security cameras in his home vs. what everyone interviewed describes as an elaborate labyrinth of security leading to his bedroom including sounds that would chime if anyone approaches?

Those are one and the same? :-/

  

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Brew
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88. "LOL uhh yea that's pretty damn disingenuous."
In response to Reply # 87


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
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90. "I legit had to reread it a few times."
In response to Reply # 88


          

Like... am *I* losing my mind?

I mean be biased, but at least don't try to pretend you aren't. Shit is transparent as hell.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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106. "Yeah I don't see a huge distinction. "
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

We both described the same thing in two very different that have very different implications and connotations. But that's my point. Why is there description of the alarm system more accurate than mine?

Yeah you can interpret the alarm system as part of a scheme for abusing children, or you can interpret it as a man who was very concerned about home security. I don't know why one interpretation should be given more weight than the other.

I mean we can think it's strange to have that sort of security, but none of us are international billionaire pop stars with tons of stalkers so its hardly definitive to me.

shrugs.

And I think almost all of the claims here can be seen that way.

Don't get me wrong. MJJ was stupid to hang out and share beds with kids. If not for the most basic reason as avoiding claims like this, but that he shared a bed with kids doesn't prove that he was diddling them and that's the conflating of facts that folks are doing to prove that he was a molester.



>You said:
>
>The use the fact that he had security cameras in his home as
>evidence of... somehthing. (sic)
>
>What is actually written is:
>
>The hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom was a serious
>security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the
>steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds.
>
>
>You don't think what you said is at all misrepresenting what
>is written here? Security cameras in his home vs. what
>everyone interviewed describes as an elaborate labyrinth of
>security leading to his bedroom including sounds that would
>chime if anyone approaches?
>
>Those are one and the same? :-/


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Marauder21
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108. "You clearly said it that way for a reason"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

It's like saying "oh, Matt Lauer had an office door that locked? Big deal."

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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112. "That's my point. You can easily reframe it to be a lot more innocuous. "
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

There is nothing inherently nefarious about a person having internal security and alarm system in their home. It's easy to make that shit sound salacious but there is also a general security explanation that would explain it just as easily.

I don't think the same can be said for Matt Lauer having a button in his office that locks his door.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Mar-04-19 04:33 PM

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114. "Right."
In response to Reply # 108


          

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
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Mon Mar-04-19 04:46 PM

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118. ":-/"
In response to Reply # 106


          

>We both described the same thing in two very different that
>have very different implications and connotations. But that's
>my point. Why is there description of the alarm system more
>accurate than mine?

Come on. You were intentionally oversimplifying to fashion a narrative that all of this is overblown.

>
>Yeah you can interpret the alarm system as part of a scheme
>for abusing children, or you can interpret it as a man who was
>very concerned about home security. I don't know why one
>interpretation should be given more weight than the other.

*I* wasn't interpreting it either way. In fact, I can accept that the biggest star in the world has over the top crazy security. I actually don't see anything about that that specifically supports the sexual abuse charges.

>I mean we can think it's strange to have that sort of
>security, but none of us are international billionaire pop
>stars with tons of stalkers so its hardly definitive to me.
>
>shrugs.

But all you had to do was say that. The way you framed it was as if they were calling him a child abuser because he got an ADT system. Like, c'mon. I took issue with how you were attempting to reframe and oversimplify it. That's completely disingenuous, and you know it. Make the case that this labyrinth security system was because he was MJ, not because he tried to shield himself from being caught, and to include that in a list of 'facts' about him, unto itself, is disingenuous. That's a completely credible and reasonable argument. Not this other thing you're doing. That's just weird.

>
>And I think almost all of the claims here can be seen that
>way.
>
>Don't get me wrong. MJJ was stupid to hang out and share beds
>with kids. If not for the most basic reason as avoiding claims
>like this, but that he shared a bed with kids doesn't prove
>that he was diddling them and that's the conflating of facts
>that folks are doing to prove that he was a molester.

Here is where I kinda have to leave you. Of course 1+1 doesn't necessarily equal 2, in this case. But there is nothing acceptable, healthy or 'normal' about a grown man sleeping in the bed with young children (that aren't his own). In my mind, through that lens, it is not at all an unrealistic assumption that there may have been abuse. And if you combine that with what was clearly an deliberate and pointed campaign to keep the parents 'on the hook' and under his control with gifts and access, while deliberately separating the kids from them, I have a really hard time believing that the reason for that wasn't wholly sinister. Any quasi-professional will tell you that that is textbook grooming and to suggest anything different is.... disingenuous? Cognitive dissonance? Denial? Something...

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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86. "replied in the wrong place"
In response to Reply # 68
Mon Mar-04-19 02:21 PM by soulpsychodelicyde

          

.

  

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Dr Claw
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82. "that list contains a number of falsehoods."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

  

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Case_One
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92. "Such as? Help me Bro. b/c this is madness"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          


.
.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

  

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Dr Claw
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Mon Mar-04-19 02:42 PM

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95. "for one: the 'matching' pictures"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

complete bullshit. the autopsy of Mike confirmed it further, but the reason the grand juries declined to indict mike in the 90s had to do with the "un-matching" of those photos.

that shit reads like it came directly from Tom Sneddon, lol

  

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Case_One
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97. "Ooooooh. Man Humans with bad agendas suck"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

What about the other stuff on the list? It was sticking to read.


.
.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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110. "You can go through the list and refute each one. "
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

1. MJJ shared a bed with boys. At the end of the day this really the one everyone points to and I think it was a terrible idea, I would never let my kids do it and this is how MJJ set himself up for people to believe everything else about him. There are really only a couple of things to say about this. A.) it isn't proof of molestation and B.) there are many other kids who he did with who have not made this same allegation. I know the fact that he didn't rape everyone isn't proof that he didn't rape some but I do think he do have to look at the individual character of the folks making the claims.

2. The Settlments - MJJ didn't pay them. His insurance companies did. It wasn't his decision.

3. There is a lot written about the matching penis description. The short answer is that they did not match and the lawyers for Chandler tried to keep his penis description OUT of the civil lawsuit.

https://themichaeljacksonallegations.com/2016/12/26/did-jordan-chandlers-description-of-michael-jacksons-penis-match-the-photographs-taken-of-the-stars-genitalia-by-the-police/

4. The security system. I spoke about that. It doesn't prove anything but that he was very concerned with security.

5. Adult Erotica. Remember when it was reported that a stash of child porn was found in his stuff? Turns out dude just had lots of art inclouding classical images of naked baby angels and stuff common in neo-classical art.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/no-child-porn-found-at-neverland-thenor-now-the_us_577fdfbce4b0f06648f4a3f8

6. No Women at the crib? Yeah, we know dude was a gay man now.

7. He gave lots of gifts? Ninjas was worth a billie. Shrugs.

8. The fathers committed suicide? I don't know. It failed to mention that Evan Chandler also tried to kill his son. These seem to be terrible people.

9. The 5 accusers? I think this thread can better talk about all the accusers.

https://twitter.com/MJJLegion/status/874793293464432640


I am really not a person who would blindly defend a celebrity. I am the type that when I want to know the truth about a subject I will do my own research and draw my own conclusions. That's how I end up where I am on this.






**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Castro
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66. "Yet another British documentary on MJ."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Paul McCartney regained some partial rights to the catalog in 2017, but Sony still controls the catalog. I guess they are going to keep hammering away.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Basaglia
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69. "Bill Cosby tried to buy NBC, soooo"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Dr Claw
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80. "lazy"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

  

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Basaglia
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84. "i'm really sorry you think The Man out to get a guy who slept with kids"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          


i'm sorry you think sony is tryna get him despite having a stake in the ongoing sales of his music.

he was damaged and you're holding on to something that wasn't true.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Dr Claw
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93. "Strawmanning like shit, dogg"
In response to Reply # 84
Mon Mar-04-19 02:43 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

the man is dead. Sony nor anyone else can't do shit to him; in fact "Sony" would have no motive. The estate sold their share of ATV to them posthumously.

this has nothing to do with a grand conspiratorial scheme to bring him down.

but "The Man" (namely the FBI) did investigate him for 10 years. without his knowledge. they even took more pictures of dude to see if they could find any more evidence. the results were released via FOIA.

  

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double 0
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94. "RE: i'm really sorry you think The Man out to get a guy who slept with k..."
In response to Reply # 84


          

How do you discount an entire federal investigation over a decade though?

The claim was lobbied against him multiple times and in all the investigations there was no credible evidence found of any molestation..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.double0.co

  

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Basaglia
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100. "how you discount sleeping in beds with little boys...CONSTANTLY?"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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double 0
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101. "RE: how you discount sleeping in beds with little boys...CONSTANTLY?"
In response to Reply # 100


          

I don't know if ANYONE is in here arguing ACTUAL FACTS. The problem is the assumption that one fact must mean a ton of other unproven ones are true.

BUT

One doesn't mean the other.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.double0.co

  

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Dr Claw
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115. "RE: how you discount sleeping in beds with little boys...CONSTANTLY?"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

>I don't know if ANYONE is in here arguing ACTUAL FACTS. The
>problem is the assumption that one fact must mean a ton of
>other unproven ones are true.
>
>BUT
>
>One doesn't mean the other.

I'm trying to do it, man. people have had their minds made up for years. this film is not gonna change it. people ain't gonna be cancelling Mike. the people that say they are? prolly already thought he was a pedo and ain't really playing his music. the Stans gonna moonwalk regardless. I can't speak for anyone else.

it'll probably be wild uncomfortable to discuss him in public for another 10 years unless there's a bomb-drop that swings the pendulum one way or the other regardless

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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121. "There is something to be said for the pendulum swing of Oprah"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

This dude makes a good point.

https://twitter.com/BBonTheBrain/status/1100566826788900870

Oprah you haven't learned anything new, crazy for you to flip so hard if you ask me it's self serving.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Castro
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132. "MJ was weird, probably was a pedo, but this is about bizness."
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

These yellow tooth racist muhphuckas will continue to produce these docs.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Mon Mar-04-19 01:29 PM

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78. "i said this years ago"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i mean...i actually remember when he was exhaustively investigated and have some very reliable 2nd hand info i remember clearly about him allegedly being closeted but not a molester but i've given up on humanity and it's ability to think particularly well

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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Basaglia
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79. "the magic of a glove and some moves. hilarious. "
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Case_One
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Mon Mar-04-19 02:44 PM

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96. "Cut da Crap! SHOW OF HANDS! Is MJ A Child Molester? YES/NO? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.
.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Mar-04-19 02:55 PM

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98. "probably "
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Case_One
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Mon Mar-04-19 03:12 PM

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103. "YES or NO. Get off the fence. "
In response to Reply # 98


  

          


.
.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Mar-04-19 03:17 PM

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104. "nah. bottom line is i don't know so i'm not making a definitive claim"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

I have no personal investment in him being being a molester or not

but I lean towards believing he did some things.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Mon Mar-04-19 03:28 PM

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105. "No, based on post 89"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

and the 10 year investigation by the feds.

plus Basaglia didn't counter 89

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Marauder21
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Mon Mar-04-19 03:48 PM

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107. "Yes, but no one cares"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

Some people you can mention their art in the context of their bad personal shit.
Not allowed to do that with MJ and you never will be.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Dr Claw
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Mon Mar-04-19 04:08 PM

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109. "there's no definitive answer."
In response to Reply # 96
Mon Mar-04-19 04:12 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

because

1) sexual assault cases rarely have "proof". it's a game of the accuser's word against the accused.

2) because of the nature of sexual assault, and #1, you basically have to be there to know certainly.

then there is the matter (for y'all dum-dums in the back) of Mike's own behavior. he hosted sleepovers for children. he said on TV that there is nothing wrong with sharing a bed with a child. and while he is not technically wrong about the second, society says otherwise. there are too many cases of adults using that setting (or similar settings) for rape. no matter your intention, it's just not appropriate. even if Mike never touched a single child, the whole optics of it all is going to make him look suspect. furthermore he seemed to have too much of an interest in things that were childish as he aged, and became more independent. all red flags from a circumstantial perspective, and the main reason I don't fault anyone for thinking he's a pedo.

I don't agree. the only reason I don't agree is because of the nature of the 2 cases that went to court. I believe, as can be supported with the court proceedings, behavior of the accuser's families, and the general stories leading up to the allegations, that Mike did not commit those crimes, and that he may have been the subject of an extortion attempt. the testimony of many in the same situation has been very consistent in their denials. there appears to be no evidence of any real hush money or gifts being paid out to these people, who have been presenting themselves unprompted.


however, very few will go against their gut, because... we all know what it looks like, and 99% of the time, it's usually the case.

but I ain't the kind of person who just lets unsubstantiated bullshit fly out of my mouth when it comes to crimes.

that's why I never say "100% innocent, he would never hurt a fly". I say "there's reasonable doubt". that's the best you can do in a situation like this.

this is a situation very similar to OJ, and I have a similar belief:

"not guilty" is correct, media narrative suggests they're mad about that, the accused (OJ and MJ) don't make it easy to believe them.

I will say if different accusers without the weirdness in their stories come forward? I could change my position. that's why I say it's not definitive.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com
Does he ACCEPT? http://i.imgur.com/TBMrAkD.jpg

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Mar-04-19 04:20 PM

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111. "I stand in this line...except for OJ. "
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

I don't think MJJ did it based on taking the time to read up on it. But not 100% sure. While we are at it:

R Kelly did it.
Cosby Did it.
OJ Did it.
adnan syed (serial) did it.
That making a murderer dude, did it I think.
Woody Allen, I don't think did it.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Mon Mar-04-19 04:28 PM

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113. "I don't think SoWhat posts here anymore...."
In response to Reply # 111
Mon Mar-04-19 04:30 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

but he was probably one of the few who so closely captures what I feel about that case. really, watching Cochran's closing argument and the 15 points of doubt REALLY codified it for me. it's more than a rhyming couplet that acquitted him.

the media narratives on that case were ATROCIOUS. basically boiled it down to: he killed them because he was a sell-out supercoon who could kill two people in a bloody manner, yet have no blood or bruises on him, no murder weapon left behind, then hop a fence and catch a red-eye flight, magically teleport blood back in his getaway car, and the jury was too dumb to know what DNA was because they Black and Latino and LA cops are racist.

that shit was CRAZY to me. the State of California deserved that L.

for years I was a "it was the legal exercise" dude. years pass and I went back to it (because the media/MURRICA never let it go) and I was just disgusted. same thing happened with MJ.

and like MJ, OJ was a fool with public life. I believe in the idea of an "OJ Did It" cottage industry... one which OJ HIMSELF TRIED TO CASH IN ON. When it came to selling out for $$$, OJ was like MJ with his childish pursuits. he just couldn't quit it, no matter how worse it made him look

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com
Does he ACCEPT? http://i.imgur.com/TBMrAkD.jpg

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Mon Mar-04-19 05:52 PM

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122. "Guys... Jackson was a pedo"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

Either that or he was completely asexual ... which is also a possibility

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Mar-04-19 09:45 PM

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127. "Man, thanks for coming in and clearing that up."
In response to Reply # 122


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Mon Mar-04-19 06:25 PM

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124. "Based on what I know, no. "
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

Wouldn't surprise me if he was, but I need some better sources than what has been put forth so far.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Castro
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Tue Mar-05-19 01:40 AM

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131. "His best friend was a chimpanzee. So yeah. "
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

But that ain't what these documentaries are about.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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mellowboogie
Member since Jun 26th 2006
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Tue Mar-05-19 06:16 AM

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133. "Yes he did it. Look back to 'Bashir' documentary and watch the "
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

behavior of him and Gavin Arvizo. It's WAY too close for comfort. Michael says “It’s not sexual, we’re going to sleep. I tuck them in… It’s very charming, it’s very sweet.” Jackson added: “Kids want to be loved, they want to be touched, they want to be held.”

I'm sorry but who the fuck says that. Even if there was nothing going on, the wording of that is just so fucking weird and doing way too much.
Both Gavin and his younger brother accused MJ of showing them pornography, giving them alcohol, masturbating in front of them and molesting Gavin. This behavior is consistent with what they're saying in Leaving Neverland.

It's too obvious folks. But at least denial allows you to still fully enjoy the amazing music.

'Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. ~Victor Hugo'

  

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Case_One
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Mon Mar-04-19 07:35 PM

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126. "So MJ Slept with little boys for months and folks are cool widit, huh?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


.
.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Mon Mar-04-19 10:19 PM

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128. "I didn’t know you could move field goal posts so easily. "
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Mar-05-19 12:14 AM

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129. "He's a christian. That's their primary tact."
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

  

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Dr Claw
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Tue Mar-05-19 06:51 AM

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135. "dogg, we live in a post-fact society"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

I wasted my time in this post

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
13906 posts
Tue Mar-05-19 08:14 AM

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136. "No you didn't. Post 89 has yet to be addressed with facts"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

It's sad that poster(s) want to party in here

What everyone needs to realize...there are no winners in here

True - kids' lives were ruined and the abuser will not be held accountable

False - Jussie to the 10th degree...

But I'm with you, this doc doesn't prove anything

We'll see if prosecutors file charges since the statute of limitations has been removed post Cosby

There is alot of confusion in this post about what is factually true

So I appreciate your replies

Really sad watching poster(s) continue their online shtick and trolling this subject

Did Robson and/or Safechuck go to Duke?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Case_One
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Tue Mar-05-19 01:23 PM

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139. "Dude he said this on 60 Mins out his own Mouff "
In response to Reply # 128
Tue Mar-05-19 01:52 PM by Case_One

  

          

Thak he gave the child his bead and slept on the Floor (FOR WHAT!), but he didn't see anything wrong with sleeping in the bed with a child.


Michael Jackson On 60 Minutes
https://youtu.be/UKti-AjG2w4




.
.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

  

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MEAT
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Tue Mar-05-19 02:17 PM

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142. "What does that have to do with your initial position"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

You: he fucked little boys
Others: nah
You: I can’t belive y’all are ok with him sleeping in the same bed as little boys

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Case_One
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Tue Mar-05-19 01:57 PM

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141. "Would you let your kid sleep in MJ's Bed while he slept on the floor"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

May times over and over. Like, dude didn't sleep down the hall. He slept in the same room, but oh, on the floor..

Riiiiiiight




.
.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

  

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MEAT
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Tue Mar-05-19 02:19 PM

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143. "Your posts started with an accusation of a crime"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

You’ve since shifted to other posters perceived societal moral limits
That’s the goal post shifting
It’s not even that you can’t have both opinions, is that’s not being validated by the facts you shifted to ad hominem attacks
It’s weird to watch.

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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137. "I don't think there is not a single person here who thinks it was okay f..."
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

to share his bed with kids.

It was dumb, set himself up to be accused of wrongdoing and it arguably could have the bad effect on kids to think it was okay to do such a thing. I would never dream of allowing my kids to do it.

That being said, I think the point some of us are making is that sharing a bed with kids isn't proof that he molested him. It is definitely something that warrants investigating. Which people did. Spent 50M investigating. And everyone who has spent time looking deeply into it concluded that there is no proof that any molestation took place.

Again, the bombshell might be out there that proves that it happened but this documentary ain't it.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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