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Lobby General Discussion topic #13276909

Subject: "PPP: Koch-funded think tank accidentally finds 300B savings in M4A" Previous topic | Next topic
Walleye
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Mon Jul-30-18 12:20 PM

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"PPP: Koch-funded think tank accidentally finds 300B savings in M4A"


          

Click through to read the whole story, though people are making a big deal out of this and the site has been having trouble with the traffic. The short story is that a Koch-funded think tank called Mercatus tried to score Sanders' Medicare for All bill and highlight its huge federal health expenditure, but buried in a footnote the conclusion that when it comes to all money spent on healthcare nationally, this bill is a substantial bargain. Oops.

http://peoplespolicyproject.org/2018/07/30/mercatus-study-finds-medicare-for-all-saves-300-billion/

Mercatus Study Finds Medicare for All Saves $2 Trillion
Matt Bruenig July 30, 2018

The US could insure 30 million more Americans and virtually eliminate out-of-pocket health care expenses while saving $2 trillion in the process, according to a new report about Medicare for All released by the libertarian Mercatus Center.

In the report, Charles Blahous attempts to roughly score Bernie Sanders’ most recent Medicare for All bill and reaches the somewhat surprising (for Mercatus) conclusion that, if the bill were enacted, the new costs it creates would be more than offset by the new savings it generates through administrative efficiencies and reductions in unit prices.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
*oops, PPP revises: actual savings are much, much higher
Jul 30th 2018
1
Saves who 2 Trillion?
Jul 30th 2018
2
*Americans
Jul 30th 2018
3
      Listen I still think its worth discussing whether THIS federal govt
Jul 30th 2018
8
           People are dying because they're poor *right now*
Jul 30th 2018
9
i gotta dig into these numbers. i was hoping it would backfire.
Jul 30th 2018
4
I work in healthcare in a state that refuses to even expand medicaid
Jul 30th 2018
5
if they're going to deny savings and public health
Aug 05th 2018
12
If 4/5ths was savvy, he'd hop on it, take credit, and call it Trump Care...
Jul 30th 2018
6
Surely, deficit hawk Republicans will support this now that
Jul 30th 2018
7
Yeah, they're lost - but there are some spineless Dems
Jul 30th 2018
10
To be fair, the Koch brothers kinda supported it before the study.
Aug 03rd 2018
11
well that and they also support things for the wrong reasons often
Aug 06th 2018
13

Walleye
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Mon Jul-30-18 12:41 PM

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1. "*oops, PPP revises: actual savings are much, much higher"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/PplPolicyProj/status/1023966415550861312

People's Policy Project

@PplPolicyProj
1h1 hour ago
More
Note this has been corrected to reflect a copy/paste error from the spreadsheet. The savings is not $303 billion. It is $2.054 trilion.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Jul-30-18 01:13 PM

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2. "Saves who 2 Trillion?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's funny that all the headlines about this story is that the study finds that MC4A would cost 32 trillion dollars.

But of course not one article mentions what healthcare costs all americans and whether that number represents a savings or not.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Walleye
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Mon Jul-30-18 02:08 PM

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3. "*Americans"
In response to Reply # 2


          

You pretty much nailed it. I think that the author, Matt Bruenig, had a pretty understandable (for a layperson like me) distinction between federal health expenditures and national health expenditures.

The former is the 32 trillion figure cited in most media on this study, which is what Mercatus wants:

"Federal health expenditures refer to health spending from the federal government in particular. Since the federal government takes on nearly all health spending under Medicare for All, federal health expenditures will necessarily go up a lot, $32.6 trillion over the ten-year period according to Blahous. But this is more of an accounting thing than anything else: rather than paying premiums, deductibles, and co-pays for health care, people will instead pay a tax that is, on average, a bit less than they currently pay into the health care system and, for those on lower incomes, a lot less."

The latter category, national health expenditures, is a fuller view of the cost to all of us for healthcare. Bruenig writes:

"National health expenditures refer to all health spending from any source whether made by private employers, state Medicaid programs, or the federal government. It is national health expenditures that, according to the report, will decline by $2.054 trillion."

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Jul-30-18 03:41 PM

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8. "Listen I still think its worth discussing whether THIS federal govt"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

can handle taking on and handling this expenditure.

Yeah it's just a transfer of whose paying (or rather how we are paying) but it's a big transfer and the bigger question is administering such a huge thing.

That number is enough to scare me from wanting to do it quickly.

I wish there was a scheme in which governments (local and state) can phase into taking on this role if their constituents want it. I've always like the laboratory of states concepts. Mississippi don't want to take it on, let the people of mississippi suffer until they vote to have the same services vermont have.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Walleye
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Mon Jul-30-18 03:53 PM

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9. "People are dying because they're poor *right now*"
In response to Reply # 8


          

>can handle taking on and handling this expenditure.

They obviously can.

>That number is enough to scare me from wanting to do it
>quickly.

You don't have to do anything. Like me, you're just a guy on the internet. Your job is to make as much noise as possible for the most just solution: that a human's ability to live and remain healthy shouldn't have anything to do with the wealth they've accumulated or the job they have.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Mon Jul-30-18 02:10 PM

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4. "i gotta dig into these numbers. i was hoping it would backfire."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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decaturpsalm
Member since Apr 24th 2005
19268 posts
Mon Jul-30-18 02:14 PM

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5. "I work in healthcare in a state that refuses to even expand medicaid"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

were basically leaving $13b on the table every year
and the services that are covered are ....sad at best..in the richest country in the world


what do you say to ppl who argue with facts and research as to why
this will be beneficial?

_______________________________________
touched like midas these bitch ass niggas they study and bite us.

  

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rawsouthpaw
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Sun Aug-05-18 03:14 PM

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12. "if they're going to deny savings and public health"
In response to Reply # 5
Sun Aug-05-18 03:15 PM by rawsouthpaw

  

          

you can hammer them on morality...i basically use vivid language and stories of people living and dying with grotesque conditions so they can preserve a for-profit barbaric model that's inferior to global models that retain connection to human family and community.

  

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Cam
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Mon Jul-30-18 02:38 PM

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6. "If 4/5ths was savvy, he'd hop on it, take credit, and call it Trump Care..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Marauder21
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Mon Jul-30-18 02:53 PM

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7. "Surely, deficit hawk Republicans will support this now that"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*jumps headfirst into an empty swimming pool before I can finish the thought*

------

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XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Walleye
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Mon Jul-30-18 04:00 PM

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10. "Yeah, they're lost - but there are some spineless Dems"
In response to Reply # 7


          

If, for the sake of argument, we assume the good faith of "how are we gonna pay for it?" libs, then we've got a good answer for them.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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bluetiger
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Fri Aug-03-18 03:43 AM

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11. "To be fair, the Koch brothers kinda supported it before the study."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

They just suck at other things so we ignore when they get stuff right.

don't be fkn evil.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Mon Aug-06-18 04:22 PM

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13. "well that and they also support things for the wrong reasons often"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

like at times they have posited pretty open stances toward immigration but you get the sense that it's for the purpose of suppressing wages and inflating rents.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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