"OK producers... help me understand something " Mon Jun-18-18 10:34 PM by sersey
I was just checking the production credits on the Bey/Jay album. Production is handled by some heavy hitters... it’s basically Cool & Dre, Pharrell, and Boi-1da across the board.
No newcomers. I mention this Cause I find it strange that Jay & Bey are given production credit on every song. We know damn well neither one of them produce, play, or arrange. So how are they strong arming seasoned producers like Pharrell to get a piece of the production cake??
I know the Carters (mostly Jay) are all about their legacy and publishing, and having their names on paper where it matters and all that shit. But is this common or is it fairly unprecedented for established artists to score production credit, when you know they ain’t really deserving??
2. ""producer" is a broad term, which became very narrow in hip hop" In response to Reply # 0
In terms of this specific situation...
If I sit in a room with my eyes closed, listen to your song, and make a suggestion that leads to a meaningful creative element of the song, I'm a producer on that song.
If walk into a room, tell you that hi hat sounds like shit and leave, and you turn it down in the mix a few dbs, I'm still a producer on that song, especially if I'm an asshole.
If I'm funding the entire project and have a certain vision for the product and hire you to execute that vision, I'm a producer on that song if I choose to call myself such.
The key difference between these scenarios ultimately depends on who I am, what sort of power I wield, and/or our relationship.
If I have stature and you don't, I'm probably getting half that shit regardless.
Beyond that, there are a handful of ways in which one can honestly claim a production credit as a meaningful contributor.
Some are great at coaxing great performances from musicians toward a singular vision. Others are great on the MPC and bang out beats from start to finish.
Given the names involved, I fully believe it's likely that both Jay and Beytook an active creative role in this process.
4. "By using the Puffy Method (tm)" In response to Reply # 0
Just have the engineer make a small change to the beat, and suddenly they get co-production credits. ("It's dope, just put a cymbal right there" --Puffy as told by Stevie J. in an OLD Vibe or Source article about the Hitmen).
8. "bcz producing isnt just beatmaking..plus that credit could be a conditio..." In response to Reply # 0
of YOU (the producer) even getting credit
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12. "Right. Liner notes imply equal credit. But I'd bet the money isn't equal" In response to Reply # 9
Jay gets a production credit for making one comment. But he probably only gets like 0.5% of the production royalties. That stuff gets negotiated. And I don't think he could over power someone like Pharrell
10. "They DO produce" In response to Reply # 0 Tue Jun-19-18 12:34 PM by double 0
>I was just checking the production credits on the Bey/Jay >album. Production is handled by some heavy hitters... it’s >basically Cool & Dre, Pharrell, and Boi-1da across the board. > >No newcomers. I mention this Cause I find it strange that Jay >& Bey are given production credit on every song. We know damn >well neither one of them produce, play, or arrange. So how are >they strong arming seasoned producers like Pharrell to get a >piece of the production cake?? > >I know the Carters (mostly Jay) are all about their legacy and >publishing, and having their names on paper where it matters >and all that shit. But is this common or is it fairly >unprecedented for established artists to score production >credit, when you know they ain’t really deserving?? > >
That assumption would be wrong. Just cause you made a beat or played all the instruments doesnt make you a producer... Bey & Jay have been in the game long enough that they know how to make a song THEIRS. What sounds are best for their voices, the space that the beat needs for them, the arrangement of the beat, vocal arrangements, Additional instrumentation added that the original producers had nothing to do with.
Very few people are in the room with Bey when she works (outside the engineer). So if you deliver them a demo... whatever happens after that in order to complete the song is all led by her and definitely deserves production credit.
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
14. "RE: They DO produce" In response to Reply # 10 Tue Jun-19-18 02:57 PM by sersey
I can rationalize most of what you said as it relates to driving the creative direction of a song whether its working in tandem with producers from the ground up, or if it’s just sprinkling the toppings on a fleshed out beat.
But this is where you lose me...
>Very few people are in the room with Bey when she works >(outside the engineer). So if you deliver them a demo... >whatever happens after that in order to complete the song is >all led by her and definitely deserves production credit.
What if there are no substantial changes to that demo track. Like the Apeshit reference track by Migos that’s all over the net right now. The beat is what it is on both versions. The chorus, the cadence, the vocal spacing, adlibs, etc are all lifted from the reference track.
How could you in good conscience take production credit here? Writing credit for their own verses... Sure. But anything more just sounds like a power move to me. Unless like I was asking before, this is just standard fare for industry elites.
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