"Alright, lets say black people leave the "democratic plantation"...."
1. I fucking hate that racist ass term. "democratic plantation" what sort ill concieved shit is that? motherfuckers just say it in reference to black people and the democratic party like it aint the most loaded ass shit to say.
2. but actually, the big question is - or I guess after the Kanye West MAGA ass kissing + Chance the Rapper saying "Black people don't have to be democrats" (which is true)
I'm just having a thought experiment here.
2a - what would it look like if more black people started to vote republican
2b - I keep hearing/picking up on the messaging that somehow voting republican while black will lead to some sort of freedom (aka "what have you got to lose?")
2c- wtf does that supposed freedom look like?
2d - aight so we supposed to join team WEDONTFUCKWITYOU on some #kumbaya shit because #racismdiedalongtimeago because #Idontseecolor and just bootstrap our way out the hood, thats the idea right? Because the democrats are just using us negroes who are too stupid to realize we're just being used as political pawns.
I guess - I'm saying, they like Kanye but hes a special negro. Would they (they? THEY.) go through a bit of political white flight if negroes started to move to the other side of the ship?
I guess, I'm just skeptical as fuck. I'm not saying the democrats are the IT team, I'm saying.....I dont know what the expectation is if we all just stood up and started to fuck with the republicans heavily
10. "RE: If you're rich, the GOP starts to look pretty good." In response to Reply # 1
If you are rich there is are no parties
Rich people simply curry favor with whoever is in power
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
-DJ R-Tistic- Member since Nov 06th 2008 51986 posts
Thu Apr-26-18 10:30 AM
3. "Nahhh, I think you have it a slight bit mixed up. " In response to Reply # 0
95% of Black folks who say that we don’t have to be Democrats are NOT advocating that we become Republicans. Most of them feel we should be some form of Independent.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79616 posts
Thu Apr-26-18 11:11 AM
24. "only if the Dem loses" In response to Reply # 13
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
39. "most times the *best* case scenario is just a wasted vote." In response to Reply # 24
i understand voting indy where they actually have a chance like in maine.
but i never understood waking up and driving to cast a vote for someone who is gonna get like 3% of the vote lol.
is that even worth the risk of tanking a candidate you might agree with on some issues and throwing the election to someone you might agree with on none?
38. "people outthink themselves." In response to Reply # 13
like state green party orgs nominating nader then green voters voting for him.
just to harpoon al gore one of the greatest global environmental/climate advocates in history. like dude was pushing for something like the paris climate accord way back in 1990. and greens stiffarmed him.
or stein folks who now gotta live with an administration looking to dismantle the epa and roll back decades worth of environmental protections.
At least initially, wouldn't it result in a string of republican victories. And with their pretty concerted efforts at black voter suppression, isn't it even more dangerous to give them a few uninterrupted cycles in power?
4. "in the current climate. voting republican is not even an option" In response to Reply # 0
---------------------------------
So i'm smokin on this cactus, bangin Fat Patrick hustla til i die baby grindin like a savage pimp game sweet, breakin ankles and feet cuz these hoes break they toes til they job complete
7. "Meh. Let's just move to parliamentary style representation" In response to Reply # 0 Thu Apr-26-18 10:38 AM by MEAT
As long as low population states have wildly outsized representation and influence were at an em passe for the changes and policies necessary to sustain this country. Couple that with the demographic shifts to higher concentrations in major metros, that trend will only exacerbate the current problems.
A better idea (to *affect desired changes) instead of third party, dem, or republican would be for black people to explore another migration. There would be dozens of logistic and second and tertiary problems associated with this but that's the most dramatic change as as a people we could make.
So who's coming with me to Pierre South Dakota. ?!?
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
16. "rosewood.. first thing i thought of." In response to Reply # 7
but uhhhh how did that turn out???
yeah.
re-boot of a rosewood.... there would be problems not only internally, but externally.... all kinds of three letter agency's would be in the mix. the three letter agencys get mad when you ignore them.
________ "promise yourself to be so strong that nothing can disturb your peace of mind"-cl
BEFORE YOU JUDGE ME, make sure you're perfect.
"I'm hella Black, and irresponsibility ain't my culture. Yall niggas just gon have to own that as individuals"- Boo
18. "I was gonna post THIS as an actual thought experiement today" In response to Reply # 7
Just finished watching Wild Wild Country
and thinking about what Malachi York did in Georgia during the same time...
How is it that no one has actually tried to straight buy up some large swath of land and start a town? The money the rajneesh were making is like 1/2 of a single NBA players salary and like 1/10th of what Jay, Puff, Bey or Byron Allen have..
How come there has been no push to replicate a black wall street?
Could it solve a problem of funneling money within the community? The way remittances fund money back and forth to Caribbean or African Nations?
Could it be a College Town? Buy an old HBCU and the property around it? Make the college the Cultural center of it?
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
I feel like the money necessary to make the leap in consciousness is definitely there... After that it would take a large effort by smaller investments
Again the Rajneesh dudes copped a town only making 25m a year across businesses.. buying houses for 50k (80s inflation)
Tama-Re in Georgia must've cost less than 1m
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
35. "It's not just a money thing. Logistics logistics logistics " In response to Reply # 34
Things to consider: Median cost of living Cost of relocation Job opportunities Available housing Will the demographic influx be enough to push the margin Are you pushing a red state purple or a purple state blue Will the loss of the demographic put their original place into play Strain on local resources (electricity, water, food, roads, schools ... Social services in the relocated area
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
42. "RE: What would be needed:" In response to Reply # 40
All good points...
I mean like I stated above.. this shit LITERALLY happened in the 80s with the Rajneesh and Nuwabians.
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
auragin_boi Member since Aug 01st 2003 20939 posts
Thu Apr-26-18 01:37 PM
44. "The issue is expecting wealthy people to sacrifice wealth" In response to Reply # 42 Thu Apr-26-18 01:59 PM by auragin_boi
for the greater good.
A prominent group of 50-100 Black Americans could get this done without being overly stretched (maybe not to the extent of my example as it would be asking a lot to get to 40 some odd billion). The issues that would arise would likely be differences in philosophy and accessibility (who should enter, who shouldn't, would it be open to other races, etc.)
In my example, I'm the sole decider so it limits a lot of that. And I believe it could be duplicated...easily. If the American government operated the way it should, this would be a regular practice instead of that extra nuke we buy every yr.
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
27. "the list of people you named...." In response to Reply # 18 Thu Apr-26-18 11:19 AM by kittyswift
whatever their number is in terms of wealth.... its not liquid assets, right?
their money is WHOLLY and FULLY tied to white wealth - granted it is the system they had to navigate in but nonetheless, i highly doubt they would get out financially unharmed
and are they that " altruistic " ?? from the heart, not just whatever issue has bubbled to the top.
________ "promise yourself to be so strong that nothing can disturb your peace of mind"-cl
BEFORE YOU JUDGE ME, make sure you're perfect.
"I'm hella Black, and irresponsibility ain't my culture. Yall niggas just gon have to own that as individuals"- Boo
31. "RE: the list of people you named...." In response to Reply # 27
All money is tied to white wealth...
That doesnt mean it couldnt be funneled to a geographic location...
Black banks exist.. black colleges exist.. Black museums exist.. Black radio and TV stations exist..
What if they were in one place.. my HS town of Lakewood NJ was pretty much taken over by its Hasidic population. They have a university there and all that..
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
36. "The Jewish community has a unique economy that helps self sustainability..." In response to Reply # 31
Fabrics must be of a particular source Clothing for religious purposes is a built in job opportunity Kosher meats and wines are a built in job opportunity Construction of space for ceremonial activities is a built in job opportunity Religious holiday observations and cultural customs allow for periodic and scheduled built in work and money influx Etc
Very few if any non religious communities have as many built in self sustainability advantages or opportunities and that should be considered first before people reference them as a model to be replicated.
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
41. "RE: The Jewish community has a unique economy that helps self sustainabi..." In response to Reply # 36
>Fabrics must be of a particular source >Clothing for religious purposes is a built in job opportunity >Kosher meats and wines are a built in job opportunity >Construction of space for ceremonial activities is a built in >job opportunity >Religious holiday observations and cultural customs allow for >periodic and scheduled built in work and money influx >Etc
NO.. I am talking about Hasidic jews... orthodox jews.. Not Lyor Cohen or Beastie Boys jews.. They are not one in the same.
If you arent from NY or close then you may have zero clue but none of those things above are how they operate. They operate just like any other insular immigrant community. The Church IS a cultural hub in the community.. but this is no different than most other cultural hubs in communities... Difference is they use it for action...
> >Very few if any non religious communities have as many built >in self sustainability advantages or opportunities and that >should be considered first before people reference them as a >model to be replicated.
Err the Chinese would like a word. I live in Little Armenia.. I see it popping every day. Stroll through Koreatown. Religions DO have a 1up because of all the tax incentives.
I still think that an established cultural hub would need to be in place FIRST. Get people there then get them to stay.
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
43. "That's not enough to swing a national election" In response to Reply # 41
And yes I've driven through those spots. I know what it looks like. Additionally one of the ways thoide immigrant communities "sneak by" is collective housing that violates space laws Black people are not showing up, trying to set up shop with 20 people to one house and NOT getting the sheriff called. And we're not about to be out here Cliven Bundying anything either
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
45. "RE: That's not enough to swing a national election" In response to Reply # 43
You gotta start local...
I live in the good ol Liberal bubble of LA... I've only ever lived in the Liberal Bubbles of LA and NY (Philly for 4 years)
We've had 4 republican pres and 2 democrats during most of our lifetimes
There have certainly been large tent pole policies that have been detrimental.. but on the everyday.. Local shit like Bad Police, Rockefeller Laws, Red Lining have impacted every folks...
If you start small with a place where that shit doesnt exist.. It might at least be an example and testing ground for how things operate in other places..
Now the reality is this would be as corrupt as any other city.. but at least its mission statement would be different
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
49. "RE: But I'm talking about swinging national elections in response to Cha..." In response to Reply # 47
Ah ok...
I dont think Chance was talmbout national elections per say... but yea you would need more to do that.
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
51. "This American Life had a podcast some time ago about Hasidic Jews" In response to Reply # 31
and how they overtook the local school boards, etc. On the one hand, I was like that's fucked up...but...at the same time, I was like that's how you come together and get shit done.
~~~~~~~~ A bad Samaritan averaging above average men (c) DOOM
54. "RE: This American Life had a podcast some time ago about Hasidic Jews" In response to Reply # 51
Dog...
When I was in High School it was some shit to see... They had their own Police/Neighborhood Watch Force, Yeshiva, Schools etc..
Had to cop the skypager from em though.. they had the beeper/electronic stores on deck
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
22. "great diagnosis here" In response to Reply # 7
>As long as low population states have wildly outsized >representation and influence were at an em passe for the >changes and policies necessary to sustain this country. >Couple that with the demographic shifts to higher >concentrations in major metros, that trend will only >exacerbate the current problems.
structurally, if you are to assume rural votes will always be susceptible to right wing bullshit (and by all objective measures they appear), anyone coming from the left of that, even if it is mainstream "liberal" Democrat is at a HUGE disadvantage.
28. "Right wing bs aside I don't see how the interests of rural America and c..." In response to Reply # 22
America can structurally coexist with global capitalism Blanket laws and regulations from government needed to curb predatory capitalism would harm rural Americans flexibility to survive Opening up those laws and regs would harm the rest of the country because predatory capitalism would use those loopholes to harm us all And that's just one example From where and how we delegate subsidies to infrastructure management to economic stimulus and so many other items this country can't survive with completely opposed and polarized views but that's where we're heading ... again.
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
33. "RE: Right wing bs aside I don't see how the interests of rural America a..." In response to Reply # 28
>America can structurally coexist with global capitalism >Blanket laws and regulations from government needed to curb >predatory capitalism would harm rural Americans flexibility >to survive >Opening up those laws and regs would harm the rest of the >country because predatory capitalism would use those loopholes >to harm us all >And that's just one example >From where and how we delegate subsidies to infrastructure >management to economic stimulus and so many other items this >country can't survive with completely opposed and polarized >views but that's where we're heading ... again. >
It could work.. people just need hope and jobs... remember a lot of these rural towns have people whose grand parents went to war across the world for something that wouldn't have affected their little town. Like everything else there needs to be micro answers to local problems and larger country-wide solutions
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
9. "It will look worse then the fools they got now voting against" In response to Reply # 0
their own interests.
>1. I fucking hate that racist ass term. "democratic >plantation" what sort ill concieved shit is that? >motherfuckers just say it in reference to black people and the >democratic party like it aint the most loaded ass shit to say. > > >2. but actually, the big question is - or I guess after the >Kanye West MAGA ass kissing + Chance the Rapper saying "Black >people don't have to be democrats" (which is true) > >I'm just having a thought experiment here. > >2a - what would it look like if more black people started to >vote republican > >2b - I keep hearing/picking up on the messaging that somehow >voting republican while black will lead to some sort of >freedom (aka "what have you got to lose?") > >2c- wtf does that supposed freedom look like? > >2d - aight so we supposed to join team WEDONTFUCKWITYOU on >some #kumbaya shit because #racismdiedalongtimeago because >#Idontseecolor and just bootstrap our way out the hood, thats >the idea right? Because the democrats are just using us >negroes who are too stupid to realize we're just being used as >political pawns. > > > >I guess - I'm saying, they like Kanye but hes a special negro. >Would they (they? THEY.) go through a bit of political white >flight if negroes started to move to the other side of the >ship? >
That flight would be faster than flash and superman together.
>I guess, I'm just skeptical as fuck. I'm not saying the >democrats are the IT team, I'm saying.....I dont know what the >expectation is if we all just stood up and started to fuck >with the republicans heavily
Some think both would have try to earn our vote. Dems couldn't take us for granted and Repub wouldn't write us off. I don't believe it though.
14. "RE: Alright, lets say black people leave the "democratic plantation"...." In response to Reply # 0
>2a - what would it look like if more black people started to >vote republican >
It would just be a return to how things used to be. Black people were republicans up until the FDR election.
Blacks think that republicans are racist and democrats love us. That is the furthest thing from the truth. The democrats hate blacks just as much. Black people need to wake up.
15. "It's a huge distraction argument" In response to Reply # 0
It some how manages to make black people at fault for not flocking to the more racist, hostile party.
The fact is Black People aren't wedded to any particular party. We were Republicans for generations until the progressive FDR came along, when he offered policies that helped us, we switched parties.
Why don't republicans try that? Offer policies that help us and invite us to help them implement those policies rather than take the ass backwards approach they suggest of joining their party and hoping they stop being racist abusive assholes AFTER we pledge our alligence to them.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
25. "because they would argue "identity politics"" In response to Reply # 15
>It some how manages to make black people at fault for not >flocking to the more racist, hostile party. > >The fact is Black People aren't wedded to any particular >party. We were Republicans for generations until the >progressive FDR came along, when he offered policies that >helped us, we switched parties. > >Why don't republicans try that? Offer policies that help us >and invite us to help them implement those policies rather >than take the ass backwards approach they suggest of joining >their party and hoping they stop being racist abusive assholes >AFTER we pledge our alligence to them. >
aka we cant have shit without someone wanting to bring up a boot strap argument
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79616 posts
Thu Apr-26-18 10:57 AM
17. "Ain’t no where to go besides independent" In response to Reply # 0
and since we are only 13% of the population it ain’t enough.
While I wouldn’t call it a plantation I definitely think Dems take us for granted at times.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
23. "On a national or state level, yeah. On the county/city level, we have po..." In response to Reply # 17
The greasy face suit wearing black dems will never give up their positions and power to step into something much more local, with less resources and chance of success.
My guess is that a few put-together black political folks will become disillusioned with the Democrats' BS (like hand-picking candidates) and decide to loudly go and build their own thing. Once the ball gets rolling, it might build numbers.
20. "The whole idea is one of the most racist things ever..." In response to Reply # 0
The whole "democratic plantation" implies that black folks aren't smart enough to determine which party we want to support, based on our interests and beliefs. Instead of Republicans examining their platform & history and trying to determine why it doesn't appeal to us, they'd rather play around with the implication that we're slaves again.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79616 posts
Thu Apr-26-18 11:34 AM
32. "that shit is so disrespectful" In response to Reply # 0
and blatant
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
56. "don't be aligned to either party, vote for policies that benefit your in..." In response to Reply # 0
we've been the swing vote in a TON of elections and have gotten absolutely nothing for it. Recognize the power of your lobby, and then get things in return for your vote, from whomever is willing to work for you.
58. "1000 Papercuts....win a bunch of small elections until it adds up." In response to Reply # 0 Thu Apr-26-18 09:34 PM by rorschach
Like-minded individuals should flock to rural areas instead of cities. Rural areas have a lower standard of living and less activity at the local polls.
Do a lot of community work. Win hearts and minds. More importantly, make sure they remember your (party's) name.
Get involved with the education, religious, cultural, and political scenes in the area. Be very vocal.
Win seats in the Board of Education and County Commissioners races. Use that base to push for representation in the state legislature and the U.S. House.
If a group of people are diligent and determined in multiple areas over time, that state will turn eventually. This isn't a one-year project. This is long project that would have to span almost a generation.
The best thing a third party can do is to win enough local offices in a state to influence and then turn a state over to its party.
All of what I said is an oversimplified theory but I believe it can work. There are enough people of color to pull this off. ---------------------------------------
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79616 posts
Fri Apr-27-18 09:04 AM
60. "rural areas also have extreme poverty and no transportation" In response to Reply # 58
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
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