8. "don't over complicate it" In response to Reply # 6
the point, simply, is that there is a difference between Black as a race and Black as a culture
Black as a culture (or perhaps as a nationality want more specificity finer) speaks to the specific cumulative language, art, and influence of Black people in America. Different. for example, than Ethiopian or Jamaican. It is a *collection* of all the experiences we have which has resulted in our input into the larger American culture
Black as a race speaks more toward whether or not you trace back primarily to African blood (as opposed to Asian or whatever)
it ain't that deep, and doesn't have to be ground into a fine powder for validity
22. "native born descendants of American slaves have a culture that's " In response to Reply # 6
different from everybody else here. Issa Rae is an immigrant kid. Her folks came here educated and professional. She black. Which is different than Tiffany Haddish, who got a black (Ethiopian?) dad and a Black mom, and spent a ton of time living with the mom's lineage and all that that entails.
7. "I have that Black/black relatives, so I understood what you were saying" In response to Reply # 0
back then. And yeah, you were the first person that I remember discussing that dynamic online. It was probably a difficult topic to tackle with everyone in GD being acutely focused on keeping up appearances.
along with reparations, repatriation, the republic of new afrika and all manner of shit that people call hotep now but that in the future will be recognized for the genius it was
what do i wanna accomplish? Reparations of course.
the sooner WE know who tf WE are...WE can start getting about OUR business.
26. "This shit was dumb then and its dumb now." In response to Reply # 0
We are all of African descent.
Shit is nothing more than semantic futility.
Black vs black does a poor job of accomplishing its goal which is basically to distinguish diasporic Africans of America from diasporic Africans of some other non-North American region.
Its far more accurate to totemically distinguish as follows:
Afro-American vs Afro-Cuban vs Afro-Brazilian vs Afro-Caribbean so on and so forth.
The totemic method covers all bases: Ethnicity(Afro, universal contraction for African) and Nationality(American, Cuban, Jamaican etc...).
Black vs black tho, that don't cut it and does more harm than good in-so-much-as it divisively enables self-hating UncleToms to *willfully attempt to distance themselves from their Africanity. Toms HATE the -fact- that they are African.
^ ^ ^Thas a problem.
You can take a cat out da jungle but you cant take the jungle out da cat
-Accordingly-
You can take an African out of Africa but you can't take Africa out of the African(which can be verified by every piece of culture we've created where ever we landed after the trans-atlantic slave trade).
The Anglo-European de-africanization process that occured in the states -ISN'T- something to *covet and embrace. It is something to repair and mend by RE-Africanizing via the acquisition of self-love and self-knowledge.
Sankofa.
Binlahab, you've always been a cool muhfukka but this is your one achilles heel.
"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African" Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
"We are not "African Americans" because there are actual first, second, or third generation Africans in America whose ethnic histories have virtually nothing to do with ours, but they're "black" (lowercase "b") in the context of “race” because we share similar physical features."
I think a second and definitely a third generation person of african descent is indistinguishable from a young black person who is the descendent of American Chattel Slavery.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
29. "nah. given the economic realities of who African immigrants have been?" In response to Reply # 0
they are VERY different. Educated, skilled professionals are the bulk of the black immigrant class, most of whom would not have been allowed into the country before the Civil Rights Act overturned racial quotas in immigration. The grandchildren of educated, skilled professionals from Ghana, or Nigeria, or Kenya are =/= to the grandkids of sharecroppers from Louisiana, skills-wise, economically, or even socially. Two very different groups, with VERY different political and economic needs
30. "Funny, I am the great grandchild of sharecroppers from Louisiana." In response to Reply # 29
And I'll be damn if any Nigerians family history got shit on me. Imjustsaying
My point is that we have black people doing things on every level from caught up in the system to the upper echelons of society who are the descendents of sharecroppers from Louisiana. So yeah there are divides between different groups of black people but that divide is driven by class not place of originals of a persons great grandparents.
My wife is west indian so I can look at her family and you can see a cultural differences with the first generation and even the second generation dealing with Immigrant parents and grandparents, but those third generation kids? You could not pick them out of a line up from their descendent of American Chattel Slavery. Some are born into good situations, some of them aren't doing that great. The different outcomes aren't based on who their grandparents were.
>they are VERY different. >Educated, skilled professionals are the bulk of the black >immigrant class, most of whom would not have been allowed into >the country before the Civil Rights Act overturned racial >quotas in immigration. >The grandchildren of educated, skilled professionals from >Ghana, or Nigeria, or Kenya are =/= to the grandkids of >sharecroppers from Louisiana, skills-wise, economically, or >even socially. Two very different groups, with VERY different >political and economic needs
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
32. "those outcomes are VERY MUCH shaped by where they started." In response to Reply # 30
black immigrants have a higher median income, and higher educational achievement than native born Black folks, largely due to the impacts of compounded generational racism.
"But foreign-born blacks have a higher median income than U.S.-born blacks. U.S.-born blacks have a median household income of $33,500, a full $10,000 less than that among foreign-born black households.
Among black immigrants, the group with the highest median annual household income is South Americans, at $55,000. For African and Caribbean immigrants, both groups have a median household income of $43,000, while Central Americans have a median household income of $41,400."
And ^^^this^^^ is before recent data that shows that Black native wealth is MUCH less than we thought.
When the children of these stats come get mixed up with us, they wind up being Black. They get embedded in the culture, the system is too racist to tell them apart, and we all mix up. The first generation can still code switch, but some of them even can't do that. Second generation gets even smaller. Third? yeah right.
Bruh I've rolled with children of Ethiopian dignitaries and they was out in these streets like the rest of us. You can't tell his kids and my kids apart. I don't think wealth plays a part in it as much as you think.
Unless they're using their wealth to completely shield them from Black American culture.
43. "Your still only talking first generation though " In response to Reply # 32
I concede that you can see the differences 1st and maybe even second generation.
There are plenty of studies that show that for most wealth usually disappates generation after generation (70% by second generation, 90% by third generation)
33. "As if our history starts with slavery. FOH" In response to Reply # 0
Our ethnic history has everything to do with theirs. Yes, we were removed, but traces of that history are all up through us.
>"We are not "African Americans" because there are actual >first, second, or third generation Africans in America whose >ethnic histories have virtually nothing to do with ours, but >they're "black" (lowercase "b") in the context of “race” >because we share similar physical features." > > >I think a second and definitely a third generation person of >african descent is indistinguishable from a young black person >who is the descendent of American Chattel Slavery. > > > >********** >"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then >they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson > >"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African" Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!
44. "I agree. I've seen this. I went to school with a handful of kids" In response to Reply # 0
whose grandparents came from the Caribbean before the US opened up immigration in the 60's. Like their grandparents came in the 40s, or whatever. Those kids weren't generally on the "super ra-ra we're West Indian I bleed green and gold" that the first and second generation kids were on. They tended to just blend in with Black culture almost fully.
27. "I disagree with this one tweet. " In response to Reply # 0
"We are not "African Americans" because there are actual first, second, or third generation Africans in America whose ethnic histories have virtually nothing to do with ours, but they're "black" (lowercase "b") in the context of “race” because we share similar physical features."
I think a second and definitely a third generation person of african descent is indistinguishable from a young black person who is the descendent of American Chattel Slavery.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
37. "Far too lazy for this debate but... the dude that says Ninjaz is black?" In response to Reply # 0
No fucking way...
I fucked around and decided to get a puppy but now deal with being too picky about the puppy I want. I want something live that hunts and protects the home. At the same time he/she needs to be sociable and kind to people.
42. "It's crazy that this is coming back up now" In response to Reply # 0
I just found maybe two days ago one of the OG posts discussing this topic that I printed out. It's the only post I ever printed out from the boards and I did that because of how much it resonated with me. Particularly the contributions of brother Ike Moses on the subject.
I too love that more of us coming around and not trying to be anything other than who we are.
yes...they are African. yes we are the descendents...of Africa.
but we are something else.
as the real Africans here in America would be only so happy to tell you
What i and others have been saying all this time is...we have OUR own thing. and its valid.
we have OUR own way of speaking. and dressing. and talking. and singing. and cooking. and living. and ALLLLL the other shit that goes into forming a culture.
We got it. here.
because we are Black.
we are JUST now. JUST now...finally starting to grapple with who we really are.
48. "through Ancestry.com my uncle tracked down the village we from" In response to Reply # 47
and even found descendents of the man who sold his wife into slavery from which my family line descended. SO says my uncle (who is prone to hyperoble).
I hear you and generally agree with your point but Ancestry.com/DNA testing kind of blows out the water that argument that we can't trace our African roots.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
49. "Just want to point out the group you linked advocates "Black American"" In response to Reply # 47
not just "Black"/ black on its own..
eg. "Black American (one ethnicity) vs. "black" American (multiple ethnicities)"
I think this is an important distinction to make since a lot of people find focusing simply on the "B" or "b" confusing, even though that's what shows in their name.
They're saying when you see us use "Black" we mean "Black American."
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