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Subject: "First modern Britons had 'dark to black' skin (swipe)" Previous topic | Next topic
Boogie Stimuli
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Wed Feb-07-18 11:49 AM

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"First modern Britons had 'dark to black' skin (swipe)"


          

Hot Take:
"The results pointed to a Middle Eastern origin for Cheddar Man, suggesting that his ancestors would have left Africa, moved into the Middle East and later headed west into Europe, before eventually crossing the ancient land bridge called Doggerland which connected Britain to continental Europe"

It'll be interesting to see how real
they keep it in this documentary on
the 18th. The article claims that
roughly 10% of British ancestry can
be linked to this. Others say the genetic
mutation happened when African migrants
were caught in the ice age.
What have yall read about this, and what
do you generally believe?



(SWIPE)
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/first-modern-britons-dark-black-skin-cheddar-man-dna-analysis-reveals

First modern Britons had 'dark to black' skin, Cheddar Man DNA analysis reveals
The genome of Cheddar Man, who lived 10,000 years ago, suggests that he had blue eyes, dark skin and dark curly hair:

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/a15bc2fe613c998ee092c24ee0ee795d00a69645/215_211_2500_1500/master/2500.jpg?w=700&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=95cb3d0582442dbf2db56957410c4fe1

Hannah Devlin Science correspondent @hannahdev
Wed 7 Feb 2018 01.01 EST

The first modern Britons, who lived about 10,000 years ago, had “dark to black” skin, a groundbreaking DNA analysis of Britain’s oldest complete skeleton has revealed.

The fossil, known as Cheddar Man, was unearthed more than a century ago in Gough’s Cave in Somerset. Intense speculation has built up around Cheddar Man’s origins and appearance because he lived shortly after the first settlers crossed from continental Europe to Britain at the end of the last ice age. People of white British ancestry alive today are descendants of this population.


Combing human genome reveals roots of hair diversity
Read more
It was initially assumed that Cheddar Man had pale skin and fair hair, but his DNA paints a different picture, strongly suggesting he had blue eyes, a very dark brown to black complexion and dark curly hair.

The discovery shows that the genes for lighter skin became widespread in European populations far later than originally thought – and that skin colour was not always a proxy for geographic origin in the way it is often seen to be today.


Tom Booth, an archaeologist at the Natural History Museum who worked on the project, said: “It really shows up that these imaginary racial categories that we have are really very modern constructions, or very recent constructions, that really are not applicable to the past at all.”

Yoan Diekmann, a computational biologist at University College London and another member of the project’s team, agreed, saying the connection often drawn between Britishness and whiteness was “not an immutable truth. It has always changed and will change”.

The findings were revealed ahead of a Channel 4 documentary, which tracked the ancient DNA project at the Natural History Museum in London as well as creating a new forensic reconstruction of Cheddar Man’s head.


850,000-year-old human footprints found in Norfolk
Read more
To perform the DNA analysis, museum scientists drilled a 2mm-diameter hole into the ancient skull to obtain a few milligrams of bone powder. From this, they were able to extract a full genome, which held clues about this ancient relative’s appearance and lifestyle.

The results pointed to a Middle Eastern origin for Cheddar Man, suggesting that his ancestors would have left Africa, moved into the Middle East and later headed west into Europe, before eventually crossing the ancient land bridge called Doggerland which connected Britain to continental Europe. Today, about 10% of white British ancestry can be linked to this ancient population.

The analysis also ruled out an ancestral link with individuals inhabiting Gough’s Cave 5,000 years earlier, who appear to have performed grisly cannibalistic rituals, including gnawing on human toes and fingers – possibly after boiling them – and drinking from polished skull cups.

Britain was periodically settled and then cleared during ice ages until the end of the last glacial period about 11,700 years ago, since when it has been continuously inhabited.

Until now, though, it hasn’t been clear whether each wave of migrants was seeded from the same population in mainland Europe; the latest results suggest this was not the case.

The team homed in on genes known to be linked to skin colour, hair colour and texture, and eye colour. For skin tone, there are a handful of genetic variants linked to reduced pigmentation, including some that are very widespread in European populations today. However, Cheddar Man had “ancestral” versions of all these genes, strongly suggesting he would have had “dark to black” skin tone, but combined with blue eyes.

Scientists believe that populations living in Europe became lighter-skinned over time because pale skin absorbs more sunlight, which is required to produce enough vitamin D. The latest findings suggest pale skin may have emerged later, possibly when the advent of farming meant people were obtaining less vitamin D though dietary sources like oily fish.

Cheddar Man would have lived a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, making sharp blades from flints for butchering animals, using antlers to whittle harpoons for spear fishing and carving bows and arrows.

First Brit: Secrets of the 10,000 Year Old Man will air on Channel 4 on 18 February

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
They should call him Cheddar Bay Biscuit Man *rimshot*
Feb 07th 2018
1
Cheddar Man? Jordan's distant ancestor discovered.
Feb 07th 2018
2
RE: First modern Britons had 'dark to black' skin (swipe)
Feb 07th 2018
3
I feel like folks were already widely distributed by 10k BC
Feb 07th 2018
4
the agricultutral revolution was in full swing by then
Feb 07th 2018
5
      this is why 10-12k bc is so freaking fascinating to me
Feb 07th 2018
7
           warlike
Feb 07th 2018
13
                probably not as warlike as what came after
Feb 07th 2018
15
                     Myths and legends say otherwise. And human nature seems unchanged
Feb 07th 2018
17
                          Damn near all myths and legends are from after the neolithic revolution
Feb 07th 2018
18
                          i feel like there was a real flood (possibly issue with the ice caps)
Feb 07th 2018
19
                               there were prolly hella floods (plural) as the ice melted
Feb 07th 2018
20
                                    and just BANG BANG BANG BANG
Feb 07th 2018
21
                                    Any number of scenarios could produce cataclysmic flooding
Feb 08th 2018
22
been known e.g. grimaldi man and no they can't keep it 100%
Feb 07th 2018
6
Sami?
Feb 07th 2018
8
      Gothic people weren't fully entrenched in the region until 800ad
Feb 07th 2018
9
           genetic analysis seems to support a Euro or Ural/Volga origin
Feb 07th 2018
14
                If European is being used synonymously with 'white' it's problematic
Feb 07th 2018
16
fascinating article, thanks for posting
Feb 07th 2018
10
Why's this news? I visited the Museum of Nat'l History and they agreed.
Feb 07th 2018
11
i think i misread
Feb 07th 2018
12

Teknontheou
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Wed Feb-07-18 11:51 AM

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1. "They should call him Cheddar Bay Biscuit Man *rimshot*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
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Wed Feb-07-18 12:00 PM

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2. "Cheddar Man? Jordan's distant ancestor discovered."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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double 0
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Wed Feb-07-18 12:11 PM

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3. "RE: First modern Britons had 'dark to black' skin (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Makes the faux "Young Lady" White Egyptian 3-d rendering more BS

Double 0
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GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
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Wed Feb-07-18 01:03 PM

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4. "I feel like folks were already widely distributed by 10k BC"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

so I wouldnt be surprised one bit that people from Africa had made it that far


  

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IkeMoses
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Wed Feb-07-18 01:13 PM

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5. "the agricultutral revolution was in full swing by then"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

so yeah, people were all over the world already.

but the British Isles were probably uninhabited because it was too damn cold. that land bridge used to cross over was probably all ice a couple thousand years before, and then it got flooded a few thousand years later.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
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Wed Feb-07-18 02:45 PM

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7. "this is why 10-12k bc is so freaking fascinating to me"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

trying to imagine what exactly was going on as we transitioned from the Pleistocene epoch to the Holocene epoch

what the world was like, what the people were like what the TECHNOLOGY was like, what has been lost etc...


  

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Atillah Moor
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Wed Feb-07-18 04:55 PM

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13. "warlike "
In response to Reply # 7
Wed Feb-07-18 04:57 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

>what the world was like, what the people were like what the >TECHNOLOGY was like


______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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IkeMoses
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Wed Feb-07-18 05:44 PM

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15. "probably not as warlike as what came after"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

people didn't farm, so people didn't have large settlements with lots of valuables, so people had less incentive to attack their neighbors.

not to say they didn't fight. they did. there just wasn't as much to gain from war before agriculture.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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Atillah Moor
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Wed Feb-07-18 06:21 PM

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17. "Myths and legends say otherwise. And human nature seems unchanged "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

But *shrugs* nothing to go to war over though

Personally at this point in my reading I think the flood "myth" is trying to explain a period where human DNA had become so corrupt that humans (sapien sapiens) were nearly extinct due to wars and interbreeding with the other human species

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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IkeMoses
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Wed Feb-07-18 06:28 PM

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18. "Damn near all myths and legends are from after the neolithic revolution"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
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Wed Feb-07-18 07:26 PM

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19. "i feel like there was a real flood (possibly issue with the ice caps)"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

and as people started moving around and encountering other types of sapiens things got a little sexy things got a little murdery

  

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IkeMoses
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Wed Feb-07-18 07:35 PM

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20. "there were prolly hella floods (plural) as the ice melted"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

at the end of the last glacial period (12k-15k years ago).

those likely inspired the Noah's ark type myths.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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GriftyMcgrift
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Wed Feb-07-18 07:59 PM

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21. "and just BANG BANG BANG BANG"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

everywhere


  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Thu Feb-08-18 07:18 AM

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22. "Any number of scenarios could produce cataclysmic flooding "
In response to Reply # 20
Thu Feb-08-18 07:31 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

Massive quakes, asteroid impact (perhaps even one with water in it), volcanic activity, etc

Are there any pre Neolithic myths? At any rate the closer you get to the beginning of those myths being told I think the closer you get to some kind of unique event in the history of the human species

something that would result in ancient civilizations like Harappa where there is strong evidence of an atomic explosion

http://veda.wikidot.com/ancient-city-found-in-india-irradiated-from-atomic-blast

Idk it's wild

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Atillah Moor
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Wed Feb-07-18 01:14 PM

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6. "been known e.g. grimaldi man and no they can't keep it 100%"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the belief that Europeans are the highest evolved humans and also gods chosen people is too deliberate and needed as an ideology for that group

I mean the OG Sammi people are brown. when was the last time you saw European culture acknowledge that?

The culture can't be honest about itself or it's place in the world because the entire thing collapses when that happens

same for the east IMO

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lonesome_d
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8. "Sami?"
In response to Reply # 6


          


>I mean the OG Sammi people are brown. when was the last time
>you saw European culture acknowledge that?

https://www.google.com/search?q=sami+people&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYzLSJzJTZAhVHzlkKHbWxDf4QsAQIPA&biw=1147&bih=547

shoutout to Jakob Hellberg

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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Atillah Moor
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Wed Feb-07-18 03:24 PM

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9. "Gothic people weren't fully entrenched in the region until 800ad "
In response to Reply # 8
Wed Feb-07-18 03:27 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

Prior to that the people would have looked more "traditionally" asian/native/inuit (from my perspective) all the photos of the Sammi were taken after a conservative 1,000 years of assimilation/blending


far left
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people#/media/File:Nordic_Sami_people_Lavvu_1900-1920.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people#/media/File:Sea_sami_man.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people#/media/File:Three_S%C3%A1mi_Lapp_women,_c1890s.jpg

Also vikings would have been bringing any spoils of war in the form of slaves to Constantinople or what we call "Khazaria". As they were major slave trading hubs

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lonesome_d
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14. "genetic analysis seems to support a Euro or Ural/Volga origin"
In response to Reply # 9


          

>Prior to that the people would have looked more
>"traditionally" asian/native/inuit (from my perspective) all
>the photos of the Sammi were taken after a conservative 1,000
>years of assimilation/blending

When I first learned about them (through music, the exotic-sounding 'joik') I actually originally assumed the Sami were a brown people because of a conditioned conflation of 'indigenous' with non-white.

Regardless of that, while
a) a lot of the scientific language is over my head; and
b) there is some disagreement between studies over exactly how much of the Sami gene pool is non-European (specifically Asian),

there seems to be a scientific consensus supported by genetic analysis that, while they are genetically distinct, the Sami are European in origin.

from https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929707618928

"It suggests that the large genetic separation of the Saami from other Europeans is best explained by assuming that the Saami are descendants of a narrow, distinctive subset of Europeans. In particular, no evidence of a significant directional gene flow from extant aboriginal Siberian populations into the haploid gene pools of the Saami was found."

"We conclude that the phylogeography of mtDNA and Y-chromosome variants that correspond to the maternal and paternal gene pools of the Saami does not provide any evidence for the Saami population arising among the northernmost Uralic-speaking populations—Siberian Ugric and Samoyedic speakers—or among any other aboriginal Siberians. The Samoyeds are the least genetically close to the Saami among the people of the Uralic language family, whereas nearly all of the mtDNA and Y-chromosomal heritage of the Saami can be adequately explained within the European pools of the two haploid genetic systems. This genetics-based reconstruction (fig. 4) is in agreement with the reconstruction of the spread of Ahrensburgian and Swiderian Mesolithic technologies in northern Europe, linking it with population expansion that can be likely traced back to the post–Last Glacial Maximum recolonization of the European north (Torroni et al. 2001; Tambets et al. 2003). The results also stress that the grouping of populations according to language families should be used exclusively only in a linguistic context."

and several others, mix of primary and secondary sources:

https://www.laits.utexas.edu/sami/dieda/hist/genetic.htm

https://www.nature.com/articles/5201712

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/the-men-of-the-north-the-sami/



interesting stuff.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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Atillah Moor
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Wed Feb-07-18 06:15 PM

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16. "If European is being used synonymously with 'white' it's problematic "
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

For a number of reasons, but I agree that it's fascinating

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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lonesome_d
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Wed Feb-07-18 03:52 PM

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10. "fascinating article, thanks for posting"
In response to Reply # 0


          

this though

>People of white British ancestry alive today are descendants of this population.

(while true, obviously) is a bit misleading since people "people of white British ancestry" are not descendants of ONLY this population.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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Overqualified
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Wed Feb-07-18 04:15 PM

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11. "Why's this news? I visited the Museum of Nat'l History and they agreed."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In fact some of the exhibits went as far as to hypothesize that of the hominids and their descendants who did migrate out of Africa, they were less advanced - developing tools, social structures, cooking etc. much later than those who stayed behind.

Streets won't let me chill.

  

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GriftyMcgrift
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Wed Feb-07-18 04:38 PM

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12. "i think i misread"
In response to Reply # 11
Wed Feb-07-18 04:49 PM by GriftyMcgrift

  

          

and conflated your two points


its "news" because they have actual dna evidence further confirming previous hypothesis

  

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