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Riot
Member since May 25th 2005
14614 posts
Wed Jan-31-18 05:50 AM

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"Africapost. imagine u knew the fam that kidnapped/sold yours away| Libya"


  

          

{Key sad point I am often reminded of- slave trade ended due to lack/cutoff of buyers, not lack of sellers. That 'great' civilizations like dahomey are lost to history, maybe is what they deserve?}

Click the link for pix. And to see the... irony? in living color

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/an-african-country-reckons-with-its-history-of-selling-slaves/2018/01/29/5234f5aa-ff9a-11e7-86b9-8908743c79dd_story.html?utm_term=.39bfcfd15d10

An African country reckons with its history of selling slaves
By Kevin Sieff Email the author
January 29

In Ouidah, Benin, a man walks past a statue of Francisco Félix de Souza, a major slave merchant who worked in the 18th and 19th centuries in what is now Benin and is considered the father of the city. The statue is covered with lights. (Jane Hahn/For The Washington Post)
OUIDAH, Benin —Less than a mile from what was once West Africa’s biggest slave port, the departure point for more than a million people in chains, stands a statue of Francisco Félix de Souza, a man regarded as the father of this city.

There’s a museum devoted to his family and a plaza in his name. Every few decades, his descendants proudly bestow his nickname — “Chacha” — on a de Souza who is appointed the clan’s new patriarch.

But there’s one part of de Souza’s legacy that is seldom addressed. After arriving here in the late 1700s from Brazil, then a Portuguese colony, he became one of the biggest slave merchants in the history of the transatlantic slave trade.

In Benin, where the government plans to build two museums devoted to the slave trade in collaboration with the Smithsonian Institution, slavery is an embattled subject. It is raised in political debates, downplayed by the descendants of slave traders and deplored by the descendants of slaves.


At a time when Americans are again debating how slavery and the Civil War are memorialized, Benin and other West African nations are struggling to resolve their own legacies of complicity in the trade. Benin’s conflict over slavery is particularly intense.

{The incredible quest to find the African slave ships that sank in the Atlantic}

For over 200 years, powerful kings in what is now the country of Benin captured and sold slaves to Portuguese, French and British merchants. The slaves were usually men, women and children from rival tribes — gagged and jammed into boats bound for Brazil, Haiti and the United States.

The trade largely stopped by the end of the 19th century, but Benin never fully confronted what had happened. The kingdoms that captured and sold slaves still exist today as tribal networks, and so do the groups that were raided. The descendants of slave merchants, like the de Souza family, remain among the nation’s most influential people, with a large degree of control over how Benin’s history is portrayed.


Visitors in January take pictures at the Door of No Return in Ouidah, which marks the site where slaves were shipped to the Americas. (Jane Hahn/For The Washington Post)

A detail of the Door of No Return, showing captured slaves on their way to the Americas. (Jane Hahn/For The Washington Post)

A close-up of slaves on the Door of No Return. (Jane Hahn/For The Washington Post)
In building the new museums, the country will have to decide how it will tell the story of its role in the slave trade. Is it finally ready, for example, to paint de Souza as the slave merchant that he was?


“The tensions are still there,” said Ana Lucia Araujo, a professor of history at Howard University who has spent years researching Benin’s role in the slave trade. “In the past, the country had a hard time telling the story of the victims of the slave trade. Instead, many initiatives commemorated those who enslaved them.”

Unlike some African countries, Benin has publicly acknowledged — in broad terms — its role in the slave trade. In 1992, the country held an international conference sponsored by UNESCO, the U.N. cultural agency, that looked at where and how slaves were sold. In 1999, President Mathieu Kérékou visited a Baltimore church and fell to his knees during an apology to African Americans for Africa’s role in the slave trade.

But what Benin failed to address was its painful internal divisions. Kérékou’s apology to Americans meant little to citizens who still saw monuments to de Souza across this city. Even Ouidah’s tour guides had grown frustrated.


“These people don’t know the history. De Souza was the worst person, and he’s still treated like a hero,” said Remi Segonlou, who runs a small business showing visitors around the city.


{It’s been 50 years since the British left. Why are so many African judges still wearing wigs?}

The memory of slavery emerges here in large and small ways. In the 2016 presidential election, one candidate, Lionel Zinsou, angrily pointed out in a televised debate that his opponent, Patrice Talon, who is now president of Benin, was the descendant of slave merchants. In villages where people were abducted for the slave trade, families still ask reflexively when they hear a knock on the door whether the visitor is “a human being” or a slave raider.

“Our anger at the families who sold our ancestors will never go away until the end of the world,” said Placide Ogoutade, a businessman in the town of Ketou, where thousands of people were seized and sold in the 18th and 19th centuries.


When his children were young, Ogoutade told them they were barred from marrying anyone who was a descendant of the country’s slave merchants.

Some of Benin’s foremost scholars are battling the country’s unwillingness to interrogate its messy past.


Martine de Souza, 52, left, a descendant of Francisco Félix de Souza, sits with her mother, Dagba Eulalie, 70, at their home in Ouidah in January. Eulalie is descended from a slave who was brought to Ouidah from what is now Nigeria in the late 1800s, and married off to a resident of the city. (Jane Hahn/For The Washington Post)
“This is still a country divided between the families of the enslaved and the slave traders,” said Olabiyi Babalola Joseph Yai, a professor of history and linguistics who taught for years at the University of Florida and worked for UNESCO in Paris before returning to his native Benin. “But the elite don’t want to talk about what happened here.”

The Smithsonian Institution has signed a memorandum of understanding to provide help with the new museums, although details have yet to be worked out, officials said. Benin’s government has also appointed several scholars, including Yai, to ensure the accuracy and credibility of the exhibits in one of the museums, in the city of Allada, about 20 miles from Ouidah. But even Yai questions the authorities’ willingness to address the facts.

“Is this about reconciliation, or is it just about attracting tourists? That’s something we need to be vigilant about,” he said.

There are several reasons Benin’s history of slavery was papered over or misrepresented for so long. First, when Benin was a colony of France from 1904 to 1958, the French didn’t want to draw attention to their own role in the African slave trade. Then, after Benin became independent, its leaders pushed for a sense of national, and even Pan-African, identity.

Since 1991, when Benin transitioned from a dictatorship to a democracy, the history of slavery has mostly been presented as a means of luring Western tourists.

“People here are trying to find work. They are trying to eat. They are surprised when they see tourists who come looking for their identity,” said José Pliya, the president’s adviser for tourism.

Pliya is directing the establishment of the two museums, one focusing on Ouidah’s history, due to open next year and funded largely by the World Bank, and the other in Allada, which will more broadly investigate the country’s role in the slave trade and is scheduled to open in 2020. The two sites are expected to cost $24 million in total.

The government is also planning to reconstruct the forts where slave merchants lived in Ouidah and the cells in which they kept their slaves.


The Place de Chacha in Ouidah, named after slave merchant Francisco Félix de Souza, marks the site where slaves were said to have been auctioned off before they were shipped to the Americas. (Jane Hahn/For The Washington Post)
The government acknowledges that if it wants to attract tourists, it will need to address concerns about whether Benin is whitewashing the actions of the slave trade’s architects. Advisers to the president said he plans to rename the Place de Chacha square in Ouidah, said to have been an open-air auction site for slaves. Authorities have not yet decided on a new name.

“This is a very delicate subject,” Pliya said.

Many members of the de Souza family are aghast at the idea.

“He was a man who helped modernize our nation,” said Judicael de Souza, 43, noting his ancestor’s role in expanding agricultural trade with Europe.

One member of the family, Martine de Souza, a tour guide, has urged the family for years to re-examine its history. “It’s time we accept the reality,” she said in an interview. But most others are cautious.

Late last year, the family appointed its new patriarch, or Chacha. He is a construction engineer named Moise de Souza who lives in a concrete apartment building with a poster-size picture of himself on the wall. He has light brown skin, a point of pride for a family that often boasts about its ties to colonialists.

In an interview, he acknowledged his ancestors’ role in the slave trade.

“It is something that makes me feel bad. We know it’s painful, and all I can do is apologize,” he said.

Still, he worried that members of his family would be livid if he shared that sentiment publicly in Benin. He vehemently opposes any mention of de Souza as a slave merchant in the new Ouidah ­museum.

“It’s the reputation of our family,” he said. “We don’t want to be known for this dirty thing.”

In mid-January, he and dozens of other de Souza descendants made their yearly pilgrimage to the city of Abomey, the former capital of the kingdom of Dahomey, a major regional power in pre-colonial days. A modern-day king of Dahomey, Dédjalagni ­Agoli-Agbo, still presides, even though the title is now a largely ceremonial one.

The meeting had an extraordinary subtext. The kingdom of Dahomey had sold hundreds of thousands of slaves to merchants like Francisco de Souza. The ceremony was about celebrating a relationship between two families that was originally forged over slaves.

On that humid morning, Moise de Souza stepped out of an SUV wearing a gold-trimmed shawl and cap. He walked to the front of a dimly lighted meeting room, sweating in the heat. A group of American anthropology students, almost all of them white, had been allowed inside to watch.


The king of Abomey, Dédjalagni Agoli-Agbo, sits between women from his family and the new “Chacha,” leader of the de Souza family, Moise de Souza, in Abomey, Benin in January. (Jane Hahn/For The Washington Post)
Finally, the king arrived, surrounded by several wives wearing matching yellow-and-orange dresses. He shook de Souza’s hand. Glasses of champagne were poured.

“This ceremony reminds us of the connection between Dahomey and de Souza,” the king said, as a Beninese TV crew filmed.

“I wish good health, a long life and peace to the king,” de Souza responded.

Slavery was never mentioned.

“It’s a memory both families would prefer to forget,” said the professor escorting the students, Timothy Landry of Trinity College in Connecticut.

When the event ended, the de Souza family poured out of the building.


A wax print made with an image of Francisco Félix de Souza, a prominent slave trader, seen at a ceremony celebrating a relationship between two families that was originally forged over slaves in Abomey, Benin. (Jane Hahn/For The Washington Post)
They wore outfits of bright, traditional African fabrics. On some of the skirts and shawls, a white man’s face had been printed, his eyebrows raised, his mustache curled.

In case he couldn’t be identified, the man’s name was printed in big letters.

“Francisco Félix de Souza.”



)))--####---###--(((

bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Libyan slavery. #thxobama? More torture/ransom clips coming out. Why
Jan 31st 2018
1
90 drown as boat sinks crossing from libya
Feb 02nd 2018
22
The neighbors - chinese accused of bugging AU headquarters for past 5yre
Jan 31st 2018
2
My uncle believes he found the tribe that sold us.
Jan 31st 2018
3
where is the anecdote coming from
Jan 31st 2018
7
good article. I wonder why Benin is the one kept in focus ?
Jan 31st 2018
4
RE: good article. I wonder why Benin is the one kept in focus ?
Jan 31st 2018
5
can't have folks getting too close to the truth
Jan 31st 2018
6
      can you point me to anything I can read about
Jan 31st 2018
9
           RE: can you point me to anything I can read about
Jan 31st 2018
10
                excellent ty nm
Feb 01st 2018
17
possibly cuz the museum is getting further along
Jan 31st 2018
8
The impact on western civilization seems significant IMO
Feb 01st 2018
12
      may have taken a different route, but outcome woulda been the same
Feb 01st 2018
18
           IDK about outcome being the same. The Arab link is crucial to Europe
Feb 01st 2018
20
                Focusing on the far and middle east
Feb 02nd 2018
21
They don't talk abt it cus Arabs also enslaved over a million white ppl
Feb 01st 2018
11
      Muslims made it all the way to Morocco, Zimbabwe, Malawi, etc
Feb 01st 2018
13
           Yeah, Morocco was one of the first areas the Muslims conquered
Feb 01st 2018
14
                my bad, I meant Mali
Feb 01st 2018
15
                RE: Yeah, Morocco was one of the first areas the Muslims conquered
Feb 01st 2018
16
                     so called 'christian' trading of Africans begins about 600/700 yrs later
Feb 01st 2018
19

Riot
Member since May 25th 2005
14614 posts
Wed Jan-31-18 06:28 AM

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1. "Libyan slavery. #thxobama? More torture/ransom clips coming out. Why "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Seriously. (Privilege talking, I know)
But why are ppl still going?
Ppl been capsizing and drowning at sea for 3 years already.

What promises could someone tell u, to make u leave your fam, friends, and home country, stow away to the edge of the desert, pay a smuggler your life savings to get u across the desert, huddle onto a overcrowded raft to sail the sea in the pitch blackness of night, get processed & held for weeks/ months n a detention camp if you make it over, and still have barely a coin toss of a chance if u are allowed to stay/move 'freely' about europe or u just get shuffled around camp to camp, country to country till some place gives u refuge.

-2- other than offering to take in the prisoners, African countries& AU response has been completely pathetic. But if Bush gets the blame for alqaeda/Isis, then Obama has to own "creating" Libyan slavery just as much, no?

-3- if you dug into some of the stories and 1st hand accounts, many of the ppl that got stuck in Libya and subsequently were '4 sale', were smuggled from their home countries by other African traders/middlemen. (Of course they say many are Nigerian). girls being kidnapped/drugged. Should be straightforward enough to track these dogs down and arrest them if anybody was serious about stopping this

4- why are majority coming from west Africa instead of east or central?



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bunda
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get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

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Riot
Member since May 25th 2005
14614 posts
Fri Feb-02-18 09:03 AM

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22. "90 drown as boat sinks crossing from libya"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/02/africa/migrants-drown-off-libya-intl/index.html


More drownings, torture, migrations

As far as I can tell, at least half of the ppl are not escaping anything in particular, just chasing a dream



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bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

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Riot
Member since May 25th 2005
14614 posts
Wed Jan-31-18 07:14 AM

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2. "The neighbors - chinese accused of bugging AU headquarters for past 5yre"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Because they constructed it.
china Denies it-

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/30/china-african-union-headquarters-bugging-spying

While Zambia attempted to install a Chinese police force because sure wtf-

https://zambiareports.com/2017/12/19/police-outcry-forces-kanganja-withdraw-chinese-police-reservists/

Israel offers 40k immigrants $3500 & a one way ticket to get out. Offer expires in March

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-migrants/israel-offers-to-pay-african-migrants-to-leave-threatens-jail-idUSKBN1ES0UY



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bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Jan-31-18 09:25 AM

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3. "My uncle believes he found the tribe that sold us. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I have to see the facts and his scholarship for myself, but he says he can trace it back to the records of an african village and apparently we our the ancestors of a woman whose husband got tired of so he sold off to slavery.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Riot
Member since May 25th 2005
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Wed Jan-31-18 03:23 PM

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7. "where is the anecdote coming from"
In response to Reply # 3
Wed Jan-31-18 03:29 PM by Riot

  

          

what records have that sort of detail

very curious


whats interesting in the story, and something i guess i never really thought about, is they KNOW who it was. like 100%, they live 2 blocks up over the hill, kidnapped my granddad's cousins and shipped them off, then flop around town with a teeny bit of wealth, gained directly as a result of said evils, and act like its all good.


not sure how i would process that



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bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-31-18 10:55 AM

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4. "good article. I wonder why Benin is the one kept in focus ?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I've read pretty much this same story on a smaller scale maybe 3 or more year ago and I'm pretty sure it was Benin because the UNESCO bit was mentioned.

Also didn't the Arab slave trade come through first? Funny how seldom it's mentioned if at all

______________________________________

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double 0
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Wed Jan-31-18 11:01 AM

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5. "RE: good article. I wonder why Benin is the one kept in focus ?"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Dont want to destroy that good "moor" history now do we? lol

Double 0
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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-31-18 12:22 PM

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6. "can't have folks getting too close to the truth "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
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Wed Jan-31-18 09:59 PM

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9. "can you point me to anything I can read about "
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

in reference to what yall are talking about?

  

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
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Wed Jan-31-18 11:23 PM

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10. "RE: can you point me to anything I can read about "
In response to Reply # 9


          

See game of thrones - the unsullied...

The basics
https://www.thoughtco.com/the-role-of-islam-in-african-slavery-44532

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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GriftyMcgrift
Member since May 22nd 2002
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Thu Feb-01-18 12:56 PM

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17. "excellent ty nm"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

  

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Riot
Member since May 25th 2005
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Wed Jan-31-18 09:51 PM

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8. "possibly cuz the museum is getting further along"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

and at least some of the country seems to be trying to wake up

vs the neighbor togo going full steam ahead in the opposite direction



as for the Arab slave trade, it had lot less impact on 'the new world' so doesn't come up as much



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bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Thu Feb-01-18 07:14 AM

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12. "The impact on western civilization seems significant IMO"
In response to Reply # 8
Thu Feb-01-18 07:35 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

Timbuktu and Zimbabwe would likely have not existed were it not for the Arab slave trade. At least not as we know them. Timbuktu was a huge learning and commercial center which was integral to Europe's development.

Had those cities, markets, and outposts not ben pre established by close to 700 years of Islamic brutality and manipulation Europes rise to power would b drastically different.

Also had the Muslim world not had slaves to produce sugar cane etc it's rise would be less substantial which raises questions about the nature of the crusades if they would have happened at all.

Also no Aladdin or any/many of those stories were it not for Islamic slave trading.

______________________________________

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Riot
Member since May 25th 2005
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Thu Feb-01-18 01:11 PM

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18. "may have taken a different route, but outcome woulda been the same"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

once spanish and portuguese landed in the americas, their intention was to rape, pillage, baptize, and work the natives to death, then bring in more workers.

take away all the events in your reply and we still find ourselves at the same outcome


other reasons the arab slave trade is ignored by the west/overall is cuz those east africans who became arabized under islam, and choose or are forced to assume the enslavers' version of history instead of doing the hurtful digging into the past. see- the east and north africans in sudan, mauritania, yemen, iraq, tauregs, berber, etc.


the "decendents" of the slave traders in benin in the 1st article are living the same lie, but they dont blend in as well

you could maybe compare the silence on the eastern/arab slave trade with forgotten/hidden slave communities in mexico/argentina/peru/etc





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bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

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Atillah Moor
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Thu Feb-01-18 01:58 PM

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20. "IDK about outcome being the same. The Arab link is crucial to Europe"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

and it's development IMO. I think had Arabs not forged those routes into North Africa Europe would have continued to focus on the far and middle east. Probably expanding into Africa afterwards were it successful in keeping the region stable.

That or somehow allying with Africans to fight the caliphates but then again ultimately turning on Africa.

I think the reasons you listed as well as the fact that once it's known that muslims were trading slaves and christians were trading slaves and Jews were trading slaves the problems facing the modern world become much clearer (among other revelations).

______________________________________

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Riot
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Fri Feb-02-18 08:54 AM

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21. "Focusing on the far and middle east"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Is what brought Europeans to the Americas


IE same outcome


It's like one of those sci-fi stories where u try to change events to alter the future, so the timeline is now different but still meets at the same point and the main event still occurs



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bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

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mind_grapes
Member since Nov 13th 2007
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Thu Feb-01-18 06:56 AM

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11. "They don't talk abt it cus Arabs also enslaved over a million white ppl"
In response to Reply # 4


          

I'm kidding (kinda lol). This particular article focuses on West African slavery, which I assume corresponds to the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. Whereas Arab slavery operated on the East coast, centered around Zanzibar, and all across the Indian Ocean.

  

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Atillah Moor
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Thu Feb-01-18 07:16 AM

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13. "Muslims made it all the way to Morocco, Zimbabwe, Malawi, etc"
In response to Reply # 11
Thu Feb-01-18 07:36 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

And into Spain and Italy. It was a huge enterprise

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mind_grapes
Member since Nov 13th 2007
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Thu Feb-01-18 07:54 AM

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14. "Yeah, Morocco was one of the first areas the Muslims conquered"
In response to Reply # 13


          

(from Europeans btw) and was where most of the white slavery with the Iberian peninsula came from. Also Malawi is on the east coast and linked to the Indian Ocean slave trade. Zimbabwe, however, I had no idea was in contact with the Arab slave trade as early as the 7th century.

All of this stuff is fascinating btw. I looked it up because of your comment and now I cant stop reading.

  

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Atillah Moor
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Thu Feb-01-18 10:51 AM

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15. "my bad, I meant Mali "
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
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Thu Feb-01-18 11:46 AM

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16. "RE: Yeah, Morocco was one of the first areas the Muslims conquered"
In response to Reply # 14


          

Christian Slave trade is later in the story though isnt it? like 1500s

This map is pretty thorough though

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/African_slave_trade.png

Double 0
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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Thu Feb-01-18 01:49 PM

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19. "so called 'christian' trading of Africans begins about 600/700 yrs later"
In response to Reply # 16
Thu Feb-01-18 01:51 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

but they (the church) were buying and selling Europeans, Arabs/Asians, for some time prior to that. So on the issue of child abuse in the church we see it is quite old because the were buying boys for sure.

They began in Africa after the collapse of the Tang Dynasty which made trade on the silk road too hazardous.

The article above mentions Russia as the cause but from what I read Russia (under Catherine the great) doesn't become a factor until after the fall of the Tang.

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