has someone told them pelosi has been fighting for immigrants since the early 90s and supported the original dream act (which came out of *her* state lol)?
these young dreamers are *demanding* a clean dream act be passed...with no compromises on border security...by march...in a republican majority congress...during a midterm election year with repub members of congress likely facing primary challenges from hardline anti-immigration opponents.
nothing can sink this dream act push faster than its beneficiaries making themselves look like unreasonable entitled brats (which righties will be sure to play up).
somebody needs to sit these folks down and tell them that if its all or nothing...they will get nothing. dems could reasonably get amnesty/path to citizenship for them along with the original daca provisions. but you wanna fuck up a deal thats even better than daca over some meaningless symbolic 'improvements' to border security?
no surprise this protest was backed by 'our revolution' smh. they continuously paint repubs and 'neoliberal'/'corporate' dems as the same.
i like bernie. hate his supporters.
expect to see self-destructive protests like this against dem candidates who arent fully on board with single payer...during the most consequential midterm elections of our lifetime.
4. "you will never please zealots*." In response to Reply # 1
dems *already* adopted the large majority of bernies platform into the official party platform. most progressive party platform to date. they have tapped into that energy lol.
now berniecrats moved the goalposts and made single payer a single issue litmus test (they wont support a candidate who doesnt support that issue alone...even if they support everything in the previous platform). thats self-destructive.
the protesters in the vid are protesting a proposed deal that has better conditions than they had under daca. youre gonna have to give up something to do that (especially with a repub congress). they are being bernie-or-bust levels of unreasonable.
*(all bernie folks arent zealots...but the zealots make all the noise)
mad dreamers are actually in her mentions criticizing her for putting their futures in jeopardy. so she doesnt speak for the majority. just a loud contingent. (sounds familiar)
13. "ok she has a history of doing dumb shit against democrats smh." In response to Reply # 11
she bashed obama all throughout his presidency (even after daca).
in 2014 she was telling latinos to stay home and not vote...to send democrats a message. dems got swamped in 2014 midterms. (diddy and stephen a smith were saying dumb shit like this in 2016 to black folks smh).
so this chick bashes barack obama...who kept her protected with daca. she bashes hillary...who would have expanded upon obamas immigration plans. but she idolizes bernie sanders...who voted against immigration reform in 2007 while using the same protectionist rhetoric as trump pitting immigrants against american workers.
fits right in with 'our revolution'. i swear some of these people are operatives paid to undermine the democratic party.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79616 posts
Tue Sep-19-17 09:28 AM
17. "she is putting herself before party" In response to Reply # 13
which is cool if you don't need a law passed.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
3. "america has a proud tradition of unreasonable entitled brats" In response to Reply # 0
kicking these people out isn't gaining any traction because they embody the values we pretend this country is about AND they embody the values this country was actually built on.
they've already got paperwork in...it doesn't make sense to lie low. it makes sense to push.
10. "I have to catch myself sometimes......" In response to Reply # 3 Mon Sep-18-17 10:32 PM by denny
It's really not these kid's faults. Same thing with the Evergreen protests. It frusterates the hell outta me and sometimes I have to remind myself that they ARE kids. I held some pretty naive and idealistic views when I was 20 too. But kids don't just adopt these tactics on their own. They've been taught to do this.
The fact is....they are receiving a huge amount of positive re-enforcement for this behavior from their mentors, teachers, profs. And that's really who should be the target of any frustrations we might have. These profs have the ONLY legitimate profession where viewpoints like this aren't crippling to your career. It's partly why I'm so angry with them. Those evergreen students will ONLY be successful with those worldviews if they become college professors. Anything else...and those views are going to limit their future success. Mentors should be PREPARING kids for their future...not sabotaging it.
9. "their lack of awareness on this is astounding." In response to Reply # 7
like did they consult with anybody? even older activists?
im legit wondering if somebody is funding these folks to monkey wrench the dems up and destroy any chance of a dream act passing.
the 'we are the resistance. not the democrats'...it does sound like intentional messaging to drive a wedge on the left. they cant really be that tone deaf and naive can they?
14. "You add little too much to some of these" In response to Reply # 9
replies. Dems made this bed by accepting any crumbs the Repubs threw at them. Bernie and the Dems need to be interrupted when they say all lives matter.
61. "did you read the twitter exchange posted?" In response to Reply # 58 Fri Sep-22-17 02:32 PM by Reeq
she thinks that pushing immigration-friendly obama to sign daca via executive order (no congressional help) is the same as pushing congressional dems to support a clean dream act with no border enforcement in an immigration-hostile republican majority congress with an immigration-hostile republican president.
the chances of success are literally 0.
but shes willing to kill a bipartisan dream act deal if she doesnt get her pipe dream act. which will lead to deportation orders for 800k previously deferred young people. democrats cant even bring a bill to the floor for a vote without republican support.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79616 posts
Tue Sep-19-17 07:22 AM
15. "yeah, I'm gonna need someone to defend this" In response to Reply # 12
cause on the surface it doesn't sound right?
Democrats deport seems like a bad chant
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
18. "you know that more people were deported under Obama than any other pres,..." In response to Reply # 12
right? Ya'll are very content with this two party, democrat/republican bullshit. If we can't get so actual options around this piece, then we need people, like these kids, like BLM, who are going to drag the sorry excuse for a Left to the actual left. Muthafuckers act like Reagan ain't drag them goddamn punk-ass democrats all the way to the right and they ain't get sitting there for 30 years with some tiptoeing back to the center.
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
22. "Where the votes at? What will this president sign?" In response to Reply # 18 Tue Sep-19-17 10:25 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik
DACA is over as we speak. It is being quick dismantled. Current DACA recipients will be eligible for deportation once their authorization expires.
Something has to happen NOW if they are to remain here. Philosophical discussions of how left the Democratic party stands or how true progressives would act isn't relavant.
Democrats have to be pragmatic and play the hands they were dealt this term. These protesters don't seem to understand the current power dynamics and the time sensitive nature of the issue
23. "They understand that something has to happen now better than you" In response to Reply # 22
which is why they are pushing the way they are. They understand the time sensitivity better than you. There are folks that have 3 weeks or they will be SOL come March. They're acting out of desperation, they don't have time for the "pragmatism" you speak of.
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
24. "Then why are they fighting the person trying to pass the Dream Act?" In response to Reply # 23 Tue Sep-19-17 10:51 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik
If this proposal doesn't pass, they are immediately open for deportation. They are screaming for a clean Dream Act with no absolutely no concessions for border security. Screaming for something that will never pass in the next 3 months.
Being pragmatic means taking this win now instead of shooting for the moon.
>which is why they are pushing the way they are. >They understand the time sensitivity better than you. There >are folks that have 3 weeks or they will be SOL come March. >They're acting out of desperation, they don't have time for >the "pragmatism" you speak of.
26. "as a reminder that this population shouldn't be taken for granted." In response to Reply # 24
are any of these folks in Congress w/the ability to vote any DACA protection bill up or down? or are they ppl (constituents? maybe not technically?) letting their representatives know their position on a potential bill that's important to them and expressing reasonable frustration w/the policies of the party's most recent POTUS/administration?
this is what should happen, IMO. i'm fine w/it. right on for these 'kids'.
25. "i'm fine w/them airing out the Dems on this beef." In response to Reply # 18
as long as some protection for the DACA recipients is passed over their objection. and i think deep down they want that too - but this is a good time to raise this issue. it seems appropriate.
47. "fam you know that obama stat is intentionally misleading right?" In response to Reply # 18 Thu Sep-21-17 11:05 PM by Reeq
because the definition of deportation was officially reclassified under obama right?
previously anybody caught crossing the border recently was considered a voluntary/willful return and shipped back to mexico ('catch and release'). those werent counted in ice official deportation stats.
towards the end of the bush years those people were formally documented and counted tho. so they could have official charges placed on them.
like close to 2/3 of deportations were these. if recent previous administrations used to the same reporting policy they would most likely have reported more deportations than obama.
the right wing intentionally played up that stat to drive a wedge between hispanics and dems/obama ('deporter in chief'). and a lot of people like you fell for it.
28. "they might get that." In response to Reply # 27
and maybe they STILL want to put pressure on the Dems as related to deportations and the like b/c of what they went through in years past so as to avoid that happening again under a future Dem admin. and maybe they don't want the Dems to take them for granted.
i dunno - i don't see this as a problem, really. it's part of the process - a meaningful one. i hope the Dems are listening.
29. "Yeah, the "you don't get it" is a weird play here" In response to Reply # 28
This type of confrontation might not work, but telling somebody who's home has been raided twice by ICE that she doesn't understand what's at stake is... maybe not a great look.
______________________________
"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"
31. "'hey. we don't trust you ppl based on what happened under Obama." In response to Reply # 30
'you motherfuckers (y'all being the Dems since Obama was a Dem) talked all that shit about wanting to protect us and shit but then you sent fedz to MY HOUSE to get me and my ppl. you threw stones and hid your hands. you talked out the side of your neck. we ain't forgot. so as you are allegedly working on our behalf now to protect us we don't want the same protection you previously gave us. and as you work on this we are troubled by your promises to agree to increased border security b/c we don't know that means. and we are distrustful of you for the reasons previously stated. streetz is watching. don't fuck us over.'
...that's how i read this. it doesn't bother me.
what they seem to want is protection for DACA recipients (and an expanded program?) w/o the vague 'border security' measures.
36. "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^" In response to Reply # 31
FUCKING THIS RIGHT HERE And ya'll in here acting like "oh well they gave you Daca" which was only achieved through activism and was only a stop-gap. Far less that what was asked for, and was supposed to be a temporary solution until something better, something real could be put in place. Then Obama signed Daca and the Dems washed their hands, patted themselves on the back, job done.
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
32. "She fit it into a tweet for us:" In response to Reply # 30
"Our message is clear, we want clean #DreamAct with no enforcement that addresses the need of immigrant youth w/out criminalizing our family."
Unless I'm misunderstanding, previous raids demonstrate her family's vulnerability. She doesn't think that's acceptable.
______________________________
"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"
33. "they're activists doing what activists are supposed to do" In response to Reply # 0
and that's agitate. That doesn't absolve those of us within the system from doing the right thing. Dems (myself included) should be working on these issues because it's the right thing to do regardless of whether or not you get a pat on the back.
"You have not converted a man because you have silenced him" -John Viscount Morley
"I'd like to quit thinking of the present, like right now, as some minor, insignificant preamble to somethin' else."
46. "but are they agitating the right people and is it productive or counter?" In response to Reply # 33
if she wants to advocate for non-criminalization of all undocumented immigrants (which she stated) then thats cool.
but to threaten to hold up a very favorable (especially in this political climate) daca replacement for something that is NEVER gonna happen...she is playing with 800K lives at that point.
38. "they're not eligible." In response to Reply # 37
to get naturalized you have to be a permanent resident. Daca doesn't grant that -- it's not a path to citizenship. It's just a work permit, a driver's license, and 'protection' from deportation.
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
40. "Theyre not all from Mexico." In response to Reply # 39 Wed Sep-20-17 07:14 AM by SoWhat
They were all born somewhere outside the USA. Their parents brought them here w/o papers as kids. They don't have Green Cards. Or any other papers. They may be citizens of some other nation. Probably have no proof.
49. "he did but the supreme court blocked it with a 4-4 tie (scalia death)." In response to Reply # 43 Thu Sep-21-17 11:45 PM by Reeq
if the merrick garland nomination hadnt been obstructed...then it most likely would have passed.
thats why its shortsighted for people to scapegoat dems and obama. obama wanted a path to citizenship for both kids and parents (daca and dapa). if clinton was elected then she would have expanded on that.
pelosi/schumer said they got trump to be open to it tho.
so they think trump could sign a permanent law thats even better than daca.
the head of the group in the video doesnt think dems should take that deal tho (even tho its the best they would ever get with this congress). she would rather sabotage it if it doesnt include language to accommodate every undocumented immigrant in the country.
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