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Lobby General Discussion topic #13193813

Subject: "Sarah Jaffe and her Carceral State = White supremacy tweet" Previous topic | Next topic
legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
47743 posts
Tue Sep-12-17 11:18 AM

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"Sarah Jaffe and her Carceral State = White supremacy tweet"
Tue Sep-12-17 11:42 AM by legsdiamond

          

Her tweet:

good morning, the carceral state exists to protect private property and is inseparable from white supremacy

https://twitter.com/sarahljaffe/status/907212366433210368

got people mad as shit

Not sure how I feel about it. Is it genuine or is she trolling for clicks? Gotta be mindful of some of these people when they say white supremacy.

edit: this was posted as a response to looters being arrested in Fort Lauderdale during Irma



shut up already, damn

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Not sure why it controversal
Sep 12th 2017
1
I should have added it was a response to warnings about looting
Sep 12th 2017
2
      seems pretty straightforward to me
Sep 12th 2017
3
Kinda right but probably wrong
Sep 12th 2017
4
The reason it fucks with me is because I don't think looting
Sep 13th 2017
5
Problem is that looting is portrayed as solely black activity in the med...
Sep 13th 2017
6
      I get the word play and the racial connection
Sep 13th 2017
7
           My thing is who cares
Sep 13th 2017
8
           Nah, I disagree.
Sep 13th 2017
9
                Its water under the bridge though *rimshot*
Sep 13th 2017
11
           Is it looting or finding/carrying ?
Sep 13th 2017
10
                yeah, I'm not talking about food and water
Sep 13th 2017
12

BigReg
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61805 posts
Tue Sep-12-17 11:27 AM

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1. "Not sure why it controversal"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

(can't check twitter at the moment)

Maybe I misunderstand; while modern society will always have a certain level of crime and there needs to be a certain level of gov. enforced rehabilitation...what are we dealing with in 2017?

Private Prisons
Laws used for municipality revenue
Laws enforced on a sliding scale depending on how affluent you are

etc.

Not even touching race specifically, if one of the tenants of white supremacy is ensuring that a class system stays in place...the carceral state does a fantastic job

>Her tweet:
>
>good morning, the carceral state exists to protect private
>property and is inseparable from white supremacy
>
>https://twitter.com/sarahljaffe/status/907212366433210368
>
>got people mad as shit
>
>Not sure how I feel about it. Is it genuine or is she trolling
>for clicks? Gotta be mindful of some of these people when they
>say white supremacy.
>
>

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
47743 posts
Tue Sep-12-17 11:44 AM

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2. "I should have added it was a response to warnings about looting"
In response to Reply # 1


          

Sarah Jaffe, who reports on labour conditions and inequality in the US, tweeted a response to a Miami Police warning about looting during Hurricane Irma.

She said: “The carceral state exists to protect private property and is inseparable from white supremacy”.

shut up already, damn

  

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rob
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22602 posts
Tue Sep-12-17 07:15 PM

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3. "seems pretty straightforward to me"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

  

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Willong
Member since Jun 08th 2009
176 posts
Tue Sep-12-17 07:54 PM

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4. "Kinda right but probably wrong"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This tweet makes two claims:

"The carceral state exists to protect private property"

This is flatly wrong. The massive increase in incarcerations has little to do with the protection of bodies and privately held property. In fact mass incarceration is in direct opposition to private property. Pickup any libertarian treatise. Property rights begin with self-ownership, ownership of the body. In a free society, an anarcho-capitalist society, incarceration by force would be inconsistent with prevailing laws.

Politicians pretend to be defending property rights because property rights are popular, but many more people are incarcerated, or are introduced to incarceration through victimless crimes. Indeed, many crimes people are picked up for occur on public property. The state's property is always the most dangerous because they are poor stewards of property.

Which brings me to the tie in to white supremacy:

The origin of many of these "lifestyle crimes" is in the early progressive era, when whites with elite educations saw it as their duty, or "burden", to socially engineer minorities, immigrants, and especially Black Americans. They wanted to make everyone effective soldiers and factory workers. They learned the techniques because they had to go to Europe to get PhDs because American universities did not grant them at this time. They admired the military-like precision of Prussian society. This was the birth of social science in the US.

This is the much more destructive form of white supremacy, especially today. The white supremacy of Hillary Clinton, a full throated Methodist. The Methodists were the most fanatical of the late 19th century pietists. They preached the "social gospel" and encouraged whites to seek salvation by turning anyone darker than them (at this time Irish, Polish, and Italian Catholics were also on their list) into WASPs.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
47743 posts
Wed Sep-13-17 10:49 AM

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5. "The reason it fucks with me is because I don't think looting"
In response to Reply # 0


          

is something that should be defended.

trying to get food and water? sure..

but using the threat of arresting looters as proof of white supremacy seems off to me.

I think its misguided and dangerous.

shut up already, damn

  

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BigReg
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Wed Sep-13-17 11:09 AM

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6. "Problem is that looting is portrayed as solely black activity in the med..."
In response to Reply # 5
Wed Sep-13-17 11:10 AM by BigReg

  

          

Riots protesting racial issues = thugs...people burning a few cop cars cause their hockey team wins = good old fun.

Katrina was imho where it all hit a head:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/van-jones/black-people-loot-food-wh_b_6614.html

or the most fucked up story during that time. Look at these cops protect us from 'looters' as they claimed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/04/new-orleans-police-officers-katrina

The problem is when shit hits the fan in general you're going to have a breakdown in criminal society with people taking advantage. As if having a new Samsung OLED tv makes up for their house being flooded? As if its not covered by insurance? As if 9 outta ten times the whole reason why the riots popped in the first place is because the state failed them (by being so egregious that they are rioting for being so unprepared for acts of nature).

My fav was when during the Baltimore riots CNN anchors crying for a burning CVS, lol.

The good old boys wouldn't be all amped up to protect against looters if there wasn't an implied racial connotation, even if its on the subconscious level.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
47743 posts
Wed Sep-13-17 11:23 AM

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7. "I get the word play and the racial connection"
In response to Reply # 6


          

but I'm talking about looting apple stores during storms

rioting tho, that's a totally different energy and I understand why folks tear shit up when there is a riot.

but flood waters rising and your risking it all for a flat screen?

shut up already, damn

  

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BigReg
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Wed Sep-13-17 11:42 AM

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8. "My thing is who cares"
In response to Reply # 7
Wed Sep-13-17 11:44 AM by BigReg

  

          

Like ultimately if society has broken down to that point; either man made or nature...why does it make a difference.

Why do we expect people to act with noble dignity when shit is literally hitting the fan and a come up is the small consolation prize?

Why we threatening to shoot people over an Ipad? LOL. Tim Cook ain't got that apple store insured? At least show me the Korean owners circa Rodney King if you wanna tug on my heartstrings. And we know that if it was a bunch of white kids raiding the apple store they wouldn't have had a picture of em all arrested proudly on some, 'WE SHOOTING EM ON SIGHT'.

Basically it boils down to why are we casting judgement on people in a shitty situation, on top of that judgement for many people are based on already pre-disposed racial biases.






>but I'm talking about looting apple stores during storms
>
>rioting tho, that's a totally different energy and I
>understand why folks tear shit up when there is a riot.
>
>but flood waters rising and your risking it all for a flat
>screen?

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
47743 posts
Wed Sep-13-17 11:56 AM

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9. "Nah, I disagree. "
In response to Reply # 8
Wed Sep-13-17 11:58 AM by legsdiamond

          

I don't want my people dying over some gotdamn iPhones and TV's

Sorry but as a Black man I can't excuse dumb ass decisions like looting TV's during a flood

have to disagree on that one. I don't like when we act like Black folk aren't at fault when they are... that's not a good idea when trying to scream white supremacy.

There is a storm and you go out and rob Best Buy or break into my house but I can't cast judgment on you for your actions? Nah.... sorry.

shut up already, damn

  

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BigReg
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Wed Sep-13-17 12:41 PM

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11. "Its water under the bridge though *rimshot*"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Like SURE, if a floods hitting and everyone's running to the mall for Prada bags I can get the media covering it and I get general indignation; I would be there with you.

But in the scheme of things the looters are like 1/1000th of the story. Its not as if ya corner boys continue to set up shop in the trap house, stat wise crime goes DOWN during these disasters because even in the general breakdown of law its hard to run up and pop shots at the dude who took ya girl when you're stranded on top of a roof.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-harvey-looting-20170901-story.html

Them trotting out the, 'Hey, look at these savages running out of Target with slacks!!!' is minor in the scheme of things, yet a popular thing for media to cover. It's fucked up biased reporting.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
1742 posts
Wed Sep-13-17 11:59 AM

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10. "Is it looting or finding/carrying ?"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

Reg has a point

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-harvey-20170829-story.html

As Katrina pummeled the Gulf Coast in 2005, two images surfaced that would fuel conversation around race and perception in the coming days, weeks and years.

The controversy centered on two photos and their respective captions. One from Associated Press photographer Dave Martin showed a young black man wading through water while holding a bag and a case of soda. The accompanying description stated that he was “looting.” A second photo from Chris Graythen for Getty Images showed a similar scene, but this time it was a white couple clutching bags of food. Their actions were labeled as “finding.”

The photos quickly sparked criticism for what many believed to be race-fueled descriptions based on implicit bias. The conversation played out across the Internet, even taking the prime-time stage when Kanye West spoke on the matter during a telethon to benefit victims of Katrina. The outrage was so memorable that five years later, the Newseum in Washington featured the photos and backlash in its Katrina exhibit.

At the time, the Associated Press stood by its description, pointing to its guidelines for justification of using the word “looting” rather than “carrying.” An AP spokesman told Salon that the photographer “saw the person go into the shop and take the goods, and that’s why he wrote ‘looting’ in the caption.”

Getty also stuck by its description to use “finding.” In a blog post days later, Graythen further explained his reasoning.

“These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics. They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow.”

Graythen wrote that his description had nothing to do with race, and added that when he later saw both white and black individuals actually looting a store, he did include that in his caption.

---------------------------
Stalking

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
47743 posts
Wed Sep-13-17 12:42 PM

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12. "yeah, I'm not talking about food and water"
In response to Reply # 10


          

I think food and water are fair game when shit hits the fan like Katrina.

shut up already, damn

  

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